Samsung 950 Pro M.2 boot issues if RAID is enabled

[martin.dutton]

Got an odd issue that I'm struggling to find an answer on, doesn't seem to tally with most M.2 boot issues people are reporting. I'll do my best to explain, but if needs be I'll just shoot a video of it.

 

Firstly I'll cover the hardware in play:

 

Operating System
    Windows 10 Home 64-bit
CPU
    Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4.00GHz
    Haswell 22nm Technology
RAM
    16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3
Motherboard
    ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. Z97-DELUXE (SOCKET 1150) - BIOS fully updated
Graphics
    Acer X34 (3440x1440@100Hz)
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 (MSI)
Storage
    476GB Samsung SSD 950 PRO 512GB (M.2)
    232GB Samsung SSD 840 EVO 250GB (SSD)
    232GB Samsung SSD 840 EVO 250GB (SSD)
    1863GB Western Digital Red (SATA)

    1863GB Western Digital Red (SATA)
    1863GB Western Digital Green (SATA)
Optical Drives
    No optical disk drives detected
Audio
    Scarlett 2i2 USB

    Schiit Modi 2 USB

 

 

A word on my setup prior to this issue: One of the Samsung SSD 840 EVO 250GB drives was my main Windows 10 OS drive, and the two Western Digital Red's were configured in RAID 1. All drives were connected to the Intel Z97 SATA 6Gb/s connectors (I was not using the ASMedia SATA connectors). In the BOIS RAID was enabled via Advanced > PHC Storage Configuration > SATA Mode Selection > [RAID] (as opposed to [AHCI], [IDE] or [Disabled]). All was well.

 

Now on to what's happening: So I went and purchased a new Samsung 950 Pro M.2 and once all backup prep was complete I powered down the system, pulled the SATA cables from all drives and installed the Samsung 950 Pro M.2. I placed my Windows 10 USB stick in a front port, powered up the system and went into the BOIS to Advanced > PHC Storage Configuration > SATA Express(SATAEXPRESS_1) and M.2 Configuration and changed that from [Auto] to [M.2], then went to Boot and scrolled down to the boot drives section - the Samsung 950 Pro M.2 was showing as the primary boot device so I saved my settings and restarted.

 

Windows installation picked up from the USB stick, saw the Samsung 950 Pro M.2 and everything went just fine - was installed and at my desktop in ~ 5 minutes. Applied Windows updates, installed a bunch of stuff - drivers, apps, utilities etc all requiring restarts... all was well.

 

I then came to connecting my other drives - these were not hot-plugged, the system was shut down for this, drives connected and the powered up.

 

Firstly the two 840 EVO's which came up just fine - they are connected to SATA6G_1 and SATA6G_2 on the Intel Z97 SATA 6Gb/s connectors.

 

Then came the Western Digital Green - this is connected to SATA6G_5 - for some reason Windows couldn't see that drive, even after a couple of restarts. I did some Googling and couldn't really find anything about this - I have read that there will be conflicts if you are using SATAEXPRESS_1 and M.2, but I wasn't using that - I was using the SATA6G connectors next to that. I moved it to ASMedia connector SATA6G_E4 and Windows could see it.

 

v0v - it was happy in SATA6G_5 before, but whatever. Time to move on.

 

Finally I connected the two Western Digital Red's, these were connected to SATA6G_3 and SATA6G_4 on the Intel Z97 SATA 6Gb/s connectors and are the ones configured as RAID 1. 

 

On powering up the system the familiar Intel RAID config screen showed, and then the system started to POST before dumping me in the BOIS... thought it a bit odd, but hey - computers right? - I exited the BOIS and restarted, got into Windows and carried on... until the next restart, where I found myself in the BOIS again. Restarted and was dumped in the BOIS once more. Restarted again and made it to Windows.

 

After some poking around I saw that my Samsung 950 Pro M.2 was no longer seen as a boot device within the BOIS, but seemingly at random Windows was able to boot after a restart.

 

After a bit of trial and error and many many restarts I have it behaving consistently - the Samsung 950 Pro M.2 is seen in the BOIS, and Windows boots faultlessly if:

• Advanced > PHC Storage Configuration > SATA Mode Selection is set to [RAID MODE] but neither drive is connected (SATA cables unplugged)
  OR
• Advanced > PHC Storage Configuration > SATA Mode Selection is set to [AHCI MODE] thereby disabling RAID 1 on those drives

 

So that's it. Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to be sure I captured all the detail.

 

I guess what I want to know is - is this a "Thing™" - can you not use RAID and have a M.2 drive running as well? Can't say I've seen anything to that effect, but it sure seems odd.

 

Also - what's going on with Western Digital Green and SATA6G_5? Like I said, I thought the conflict was with SATAEXPRESS_1 which I'm not using.

 

Thank you in advance to all who contribute.

 

Martin

[AlphaPolack]

SATAEXPRESS_1 is the small 4 pin plug,  SATA6G_5, and SATA6G_6. ALL 3 PORTS.

 

I saw nothing in the manual stating whether or not RAID was possible with the m.2 device installed.

 

[martin.dutton]

Thanks AlphaPolak - that explains the WD Green then needing to be moved.

 

No, there's nothing in the manual about RAID and M.2 - have read and re-read it a number of times. Since my post though I was able to find a couple of posts on Tom's Hardware appearing to experience the same issue - BOIS dropping the M.2 if RAID was enabled, this is on both Z97 and X99 boards.

 

Seems really odd if it's 'normal' behaviour and I would have expected it to be more up-front if truly a thing - M.2 and RAID are both quite prosumer/enthusiast setups, so I would have thought this outcome quite common.

[AlphaPolack]

The only other thing I can think of is ; I have 2 950s on a MSI gaming m7 , originally had them in raid 0. Only had to set raid on the BIOS controller. Did not have to adjust the m.2 feature. Now with them not in raid the m.2 is still set to bios default. 

 

Originally with what you posted it sounded, by order of your connection of data devices that the green drive was disabling the m.2 while plugged in to SATA6G_5. 

 

Just curious, the 950 Pro is the boot device? (probably irrelevant)

[martin.dutton]

The 950 Pro is the boot device.

 

Regarding the WD Green and the SATAEXPRESS_1 conflict - it's important to disentangle that from the RAID issue - it explains why I couldn't see that drive in Windows when connected to either SATA6G_5, and SATA6G_6, and why it's fine when moved the one of the ASMedia connectors.

 

The RAID issue as described happens whether that WD Green is connected to the ASMedia connector, or just unplugged - the BOIS will not see the 950 Pro if RAID is enabled in the BOIS and the WD Red's are connected. Disable RAID, or leave it enabled but unplug the WD Red's and the BOIS then sees the 950 Pro and boots just fine.

 

Seems to be a Thing™... even if it isn't officially documented.

 

In other news - performance isn't all that for the 950 Pro; it's better than the 840 EVO's, but way down on what it could be - this is just down to the performance on the motherboard it turns out, the M.2 slot is PCIe 2.0 and to get the best performance it looks like I need a PCIe 3.0 x4 slot... handily Asus do a Hyper M.2 x4 adaptor expressly for this purpose, so I have one of those on order (only £25) - found out about that here: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2911013/samsung-950-pro-slow-read-write-speeds.html

 

I love building/updating computers - every day's a school day... a lot of this information is out there in one form or another, it's just a case of understanding the new technologies/protocols and how they all come together (or not as the case may be), especially when it comes to things like early adoption/support of new tech like M.2 on Z97 boards.

[AlphaPolack]

 Yes about the slower 950 speed. The m.2 is a PCI x2 on your mono. ( 1.1GB-ish read / 950MB-ish write )

 

The PCI x4 m.2 will bring the drive up to speed..

 

I have been looking around the net about your issue, several other people are encountering the same issue to no success.

[brighttail]

So a couple things, RAID is for the SATA drives and while the z97 motherboards can take advantage of the NVMe drives, you cannot put the 950s in RAID 0 and boot from it.  I'm assuming you already know this.

 

When I had my z97 Formula, I tried to do what you did on the Asus motherboard and had a similar issue running two 850 Pros in RAID 0.  To fix I got mine to work by going into CSM and taking off the secure boot. Not sure why that worked but it did.

[martin.dutton]

Thank you brighttail, however I think you may have misread everything - I'm not looking to use the 950 Pro in RAID itself, it is never intended to be part of a RAID array - I know that is for the SATA drives, and two of the SATA drives (the WD Red's) are set up as RAID 1.

 

I was expecting to be able to have the 950 Pro as the boot drive (instead of one of the 840 Evo's) and to be able to keep both the WD Red's in RAID 1 as they had been previously... but it seems that if RAID is enabled and the WD Red's are connected, the BOIS cannot see the 950 Pro and boot from it - disconnect the WD Red's or disable the RAID in the BIOS and the 950 Pro can be seen and booted from.

[AlphaPolack]

Can the asmedia controller do raid? You would need the Windows driver for the controller if it can... Put the 2 red drives on that controller for raid (if it can do raid) and the 2 evos on the intel controller. 

 

I think the intel controller can't do mixed configurations. 

[brighttail]

Hi there,

 

As I said, I had a very similar problem, I was using the 950 to boot from and had two 850pros in Raid 0 which meant I had to set the BIOS to RAID.  This caused all sorts of problems.

 

I had to go in to CSM, disable and load the drivers when I went to install windows via a Flash drive.  The reason i was told that when the Bios (of my motherboard at least) was set in RAID, it stopped showing any drive that couldn't do RAID.

All that being said, in the end it worked about 1/2 the time.  I should note I was using a z97 Formula.  Here are a couple things you can also look at.

 

I believe on Asus the Raid drives are let for Sata ports 1-4.  As you said some of the Sata ports are disabled due to sharing bandwidth with the M.2.   I would put the drives I want to RAID on Sata ports 1 and 2.  Top of the line so there is no confusion from the motherboard.  Try it with only those and the m.2 drive to see if it comes up.  As stated before you might have to turn off CSM.

 

If you can get it to work, try adding the other components one Port at a time.

[brighttail]

Oh one last thing. I know you want to use the INTEL Sata ports, but I found that I couldn't do that with all my drives, i had to sacrifice some speed and put things like my DVD and one other backup drive on Sata 8-9. (the slower Sata ports)

[martin.dutton]

Been AFK for some time so only just picked these back up. Thanks for clarifying things brighttail - I couldn't get any combination of things to work with any form of reliability or consistency so in the end I gave up on the HDD RAID setup and switched it off.

 

With the 950 Pro in the  Hyper M.2 x4 adaptor from ASUS I'm getting full performance from the dirve, and then for a redundancy solution for the WD Red's I use for video capture I decided to use Windows Storage Spaces - had never heard of it before, but it came up in all my investigation into this issue - I think it'll do just fine for my needs and means I can move on to being productive, rather than fighting with my BOIS.

 

Thanks both for your input - has been a fun challenge to get this working in one form or another.