Low Profile Below Zero Silent Air Cooler

[Bananasplit_00]

i am legitimatly getting really interested in this and will be greatly dissapointed if there isnt some sort of result atleast  

[AJFILMS]

1 minute ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

i am legitimatly getting really interested in this and will be greatly dissapointed if there isnt some sort of result atleast  

well I have a semi working prototype my main thing is trying to find a company to help me fix my issues but the mod in this discussion is being extremely helpful 

[Bananasplit_00]

2 minutes ago, AJFILMS said:

well I have a semi working prototype my main thing is trying to find a company to help me fix my issues but the mod in this discussion is being extremely helpful 

even that is cool to me(lol see what i did there omg i should just stop fml), even if you cant find anyone to fund it i still want to see it because its a really awesome thing  

[AJFILMS]

4 minutes ago, W-L said:

But what about the system being under full load hours on end, it wouldn't be able to keep up at 36W and evidently it overheats because of it. Peliter units don't conduct heat through themselves very well, so all the cooling has to physically be done by the cold side of the peliter to keep things just at a reasonable temps not to mention sub zero.

 

If it were to fail for example the system would quickly thermal throttle and overheat even with a huge heatsink on the hot side since the sandwich acts as an insulator. 

atm there are 4 copper pipes that go from the cpu to the heatsink and the thermometric generator is in the middle of the heatsink and the cooler, do you think the reason it stops working is that its getting to hot so the computer is just shutting off  

[AJFILMS]

1 minute ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

even that is cool to me(lol see what i did there omg i should just stop fml), even if you cant find anyone to fund it i still want to see it because its a really awesome thing  

(-=

[W-L]

5 minutes ago, AJFILMS said:

atm there are 4 copper pipes that go from the cpu to the heatsink and the thermometric generator is in the middle of the heatsink and the cooler, do you think the reason it stops working is that its getting to hot so the computer is just shutting off  

At only 36W I'm quite certain it's not able to keep up, that being said most unit's rated wattage is the power consumption and not the actually capable cooling TDP (wattage), so that would mean it's cooling capability would be even less due to the inefficiencies and losses of the peliter unit. That's one of the big reasons why such a powerful peliter is needed to keep things at a reasonable temp.

 

This should give you an idea what you would be looking at, swiftech did try this on one of their waterblocks way back in the day and it consumed 226W with an auxiliary PSU:

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/swiftech_mcw6500t/

[AJFILMS]

25 minutes ago, W-L said:

At only 36W I'm quite certain it's not able to keep up, that being said most unit's rated wattage is the power consumption and not the actually capable cooling TDP (wattage), so that would mean it's cooling capability would be even less due to the inefficiencies and losses of the peliter unit. That's one of the big reasons why such a powerful peliter is needed to keep things at a reasonable temp.

 

This should give you an idea what you would be looking at, swiftech did try this on one of their waterblocks way back in the day and it consumed 226W with an auxiliary PSU:

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/swiftech_mcw6500t/

sorry i just went to get screen shots of the cpu temps 

[AJFILMS]

[Bananasplit_00]

8 minutes ago, AJFILMS said:

 

 

guessing you have a dual socket board with the cooler on one of them? those temps are pretty insaine tho, id love to have that, and if its also silent this is just awesome

[AJFILMS]

3 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

guessing you have a dual socket board with the cooler on one of them? those temps are pretty insaine tho, id love to have that, and if its also silent this is just awesome

yea well the hole part of me starting this project was to make a better way on making a compact 1u server computer that dose not over heat under load

Edited August 25, 2016 by AJFILMS

[Bananasplit_00]

2 minutes ago, AJFILMS said:

yea well the hole part of me starting this project was to make a better way on making a compact 1u server computer that dose not over heat over load

well thats a cool idea, if you get it done i would think about making a posiably larger one, more tower style for overclockes on desktops too, that would probably sell pretty good if you want some monies  hell i might buy one if i wasent broke all the time lol

[AJFILMS]

1 minute ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

well thats a cool idea, if you get it done i would think about making a posiably larger one, more tower style for overclockes on desktops too, that would probably sell pretty good if you want some monies  hell i might buy one if i wasent broke all the time lol

yea lol but why make one bigger, yea I can just make one for desktops but why bigger smaller coolers look nicer

[Bananasplit_00]

1 minute ago, AJFILMS said:

yea lol but why make one bigger, yea I can just make one for desktops but why bigger smaller coolers look nicer

well i dont know, larger is usiually just better when it comes to cooling, im not an expert  

[AJFILMS]

Just now, Bananasplit_00 said:

well i dont know, larger is usiually just better when it comes to cooling, im not an expert  

lol well my idea on it is just make it work and as small as possible

[Bananasplit_00]

4 minutes ago, AJFILMS said:

lol well my idea on it is just make it work and as small as possible

thats also good, as long as it works im all for it  

[AJFILMS]

2 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

thats also good, as long as it works im all for it  

(-=

[SpaceGhostC2C]

3 hours ago, W-L said:

The V10 cooler solved that by regulating the peliter unit so it only turned on after a certain temp on the cooler and cycled it so it wouldn't get to sub zero temps. The only solution really would be to insulate your board and apply a dielectric grease to prevent that from occurring. 

It is worse than that: condensation happens at below ambient temperatures, no need to go sub-zero. How much below ambient you can get depends on the humidity level (there is a table somewhere if googled hard enough ). At a very dry place you can get away with 5 degrees or more, but in very humid places, a few degrees below ambient and it starts to get risky. Hence, depending on your environment, the peltier in the V10 may not kick in that much despite temps going higher  

 

3 hours ago, W-L said:

Also one of the big reasons why peliters died out was the amount of power they consumed to effective cool and to go sub zero you need a unit of at least double the TDP wattage of the CPU or more to be efficient. In many cases you would be looking at 200-300W for a peliter unit then trying to balance that with the heat that the peliter put off from the hot side. 

The V10 has a 75W peltier iirc, but it doesn't cool the CPU on it's own. Most of the work is done by the massive, conventional heatsink, and then the relatively small peltier kicks in at high temps for an extra boost.

 

The Titan Amanda and the ChillTec worked the same way, reserving the TEC for higher temps only. I don't think an on-CPU cooler based exclusively on the peltier is possible, he would have to host the bigger peltier somewhere else and route the heat with water/heatpipes/something (but the longer the path, the more places condensation can occur)

[W-L]

19 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

It is worse than that: condensation happens at below ambient temperatures, no need to go sub-zero. How much below ambient you can get depends on the humidity level (there is a table somewhere if googled hard enough ). At a very dry place you can get away with 5 degrees or more, but in very humid places, a few degrees below ambient and it starts to get risky. Hence, depending on your environment, the peltier in the V10 may not kick in that much despite temps going higher  

 

The V10 has a 75W peltier iirc, but it doesn't cool the CPU on it's own. Most of the work is done by the massive, conventional heatsink, and then the relatively small peltier kicks in at high temps for an extra boost.

 

The Titan Amanda and the ChillTec worked the same way, reserving the TEC for higher temps only. I don't think an on-CPU cooler based exclusively on the peltier is possible, he would have to host the bigger peltier somewhere else and route the heat with water/heatpipes/something (but the longer the path, the more places condensation can occur)

Yes the pelitier on the V10 unit was a supplementary thing that only kicked on after a certain amount of temp so it wouldn't be active constantly and use excessive power. Having a peliter only block is possible just not very viable as it's power needs to be so large especially if he wants to go sub ambient let alone subzero, let alone the insulation and other work needed to protect against condensation. 

 

2 hours ago, AJFILMS said:

-PICS-

Those temps are at idle though what happens when you run a stress test if it shoots through the roof or thermal throttle shortly after it would be pretty obvious that the peliter unit is far too small to do the cooling required. Since that is also an older CPU it has a TDP fo 120W so it would be that much more work for it to achieve. 

[AJFILMS]

6 minutes ago, W-L said:

Yes the pelitier on the V10 unit was a supplementary thing that only kicked on after a certain amount of temp so it wouldn't be active constantly and use excessive power. Having a peliter only block is possible just not very viable as it's power needs to be so large especially if he wants to go sub ambient let alone subzero, let alone the insulation and other work needed to protect against condensation. 

 

Those temps are at idle though what happens when you run a stress test if it shoots through the roof or thermal throttle shortly after it would be pretty obvious that the peliter unit is far too small to do the cooling required. Since that is also an older CPU it has a TDP fo 120W so it would be that much more work for it to achieve. 

well I don't want to take the other processor out to take another screen shot but under load it was hitting around 20c. I cant push the computer with the other processor in it because other wise it will over heat and shutdown

[SpaceGhostC2C]

15 minutes ago, W-L said:

Yes the pelitier on the V10 unit was a supplementary thing that only kicked on after a certain amount of temp so it wouldn't be active constantly and use excessive power.

Why the past tense, poor thing still does!

Spoiler

 

[AJFILMS]

1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Why the past tense, poor thing still does!

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

that things massive compared to what ive came up with

[SpaceGhostC2C]

5 minutes ago, AJFILMS said:

that things massive compared to what ive came up with

You bet. I'm not putting that in any vertical layout case (probably its next stop is the museum anyway).

[AJFILMS]

1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

You bet. I'm not putting that in any vertical layout case (probably its next stop is the museum anyway).

ha lol

[AJFILMS]

Alrighty guys I have officially killed a motherboard with the condensation buildup.  So I think I might make a slight change to it do you guys know how I could make it with out havong to put to many electronics in the cooler.  If I could make it so I have an application on the computer and you set a cpu temp that you want to maintain and possibly making the unit possibly go on and off constantly or maintain a voltage that will contain a constant temperature.  That would remove the condensation issue and it would also in theory make it require less power. 

[WoodenMarker]

13 hours ago, AJFILMS said:

Alrighty guys I have officially killed a motherboard with the condensation buildup.  So I think I might make a slight change to it do you guys know how I could make it with out havong to put to many electronics in the cooler.  If I could make it so I have an application on the computer and you set a cpu temp that you want to maintain and possibly making the unit possibly go on and off constantly or maintain a voltage that will contain a constant temperature.  That would remove the condensation issue and it would also in theory make it require less power. 

There's no point in using phase change if you're not going below ambient temps.