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Oculus sued by ZeniMax

CyDone

According to the reports, one of the chief engineers of the Oculus worked for ZeniMax and stole the tech to make Oculus.  If it's true, I guess this could mean the end for Oculus?

 

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"For many years, ZeniMax invested tens of millions of dollars in research and development, including research into virtual reality and immersive technologies. In 2011 and 2012, John Carmack, a singularly experienced and highly proficient ZeniMax programmer who was at that time Technical Director for ZeniMax’s Texas-based subsidiary, id Software, conducted research to address technological issues associated with virtual reality," the complaint reads. "Carmack and other ZeniMax employees conducted that research at ZeniMax offices, on ZeniMax computers, and using ZeniMax resources."

 

http://www.polygon.com/2016/8/22/12590352/oculus-rift-facebook-zenimax-carmack

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zenimax are just butthurt. Pretty sure carmack left zenimax because they wouldn't let him work on VR related projects. Carmack will get ya: 

 

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5 minutes ago, CyDone said:

According to the reports, one of the chief engineers of the Oculus worked for ZeniMax and stole the tech to make Oculus.  If it's true, I guess this could mean the end for Oculus?

 

http://www.polygon.com/2016/8/22/12590352/oculus-rift-facebook-zenimax-carmack

We could only hope, however even if they lost oculus would likely still be around since facebook owns it now

 

Also read the the guidelines for this subforum since you need to follow certain formats or mods will move your topic

 

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/ Tier Breakdown (My understanding)--1 Godly, 2 Great, 3 Good, 4 Average, 5 Meh, 6 Bad, 7 Awful

 

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pretty sure FaceBook is a lot larger than ZeniMax so even if ZeniMax wins Oculus will still be around

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1 minute ago, AresKrieger said:

We could only hope, however even if they lost oculus would likely still be around since facebook owns it now

 

Also read the the guidelines for this subforum since you need to follow certain formats or mods will move your topic

 

I did read the guidelines and I followed them by editing the post with a quote from the article.  Other than that, I gave my opinion, the link to the article is from a reputable site and my title is relevant to the topic.

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1 minute ago, CyDone said:

I did read the guidelines and I followed them by editing the post with a quote from the article.  Other than that, I gave my opinion, the link to the article is from a reputable site and my title is relevant to the topic.

I know, I saw your post before you edited it, hence why I put a slash through that line

 

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/ Tier Breakdown (My understanding)--1 Godly, 2 Great, 3 Good, 4 Average, 5 Meh, 6 Bad, 7 Awful

 

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1 minute ago, themaniac said:

pretty sure FaceBook is a lot larger than ZeniMax so even if ZeniMax wins Oculus will still be around

Depending on what is being demanded, it doesn't matter if Facebook or Microsoft bought the tech.  If it's stolen tech, they will end up owning nothing if ZeniMax has enough proof to push it that far.

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Zen probably had Carmack working on military stuff at the time, working on ways to cope with VR sickness in flight simulation. I wouldn't be surprised if Zen lost some lucrative contracts to Oculus, and Carmack continued working on the same stuff. This lawsuit will probably go nowhere, or end up being settled out of court.

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The chief engineer in question is John Carmack, who is one of the founders of id software, and who designed the code for games like the original DOOM, Wolfenstein 3D, and for id software's various gaming engines over the years.

 

On 30/07/2016 at 0:17 PM, Delicieuxz said:

Carmack is not accused of stealing someone else's written code, and Zenimax does not claim to have directed or possessed any of the code that their lawsuit is demanding they receive dividends from.

 

Zenimax argues that any code which Carmack produced while still under contract to them, even code produced outside of the professional projects Carmack worked on for Zenimax, is the rightful property of Zenimax, and therefore they should be receiving dividends from any profits of that code. The code in question is not any particularly-defined code, because Zenimax don't know what code Carmack produced for VR projects while under contract to them, and have never held any such code within their possession. The code in question is code that Carmack is the sole originator, writer, and possessor of, and which he made, claimedly, during his own spare time, but during a time period while he was still professionally employed by Zenimax.

 

Zenimax is just claiming that any and all code which Carmack wrote while being an employee of theirs should be their property, without knowing exactly what code Carmack did or didn't make outside of their projects.

 

Bethesda suing Oculus is like someone hearing that a neighbour on their street won the lottery, and then figuring there ought to be a way they should be able to get a part of it because they used to lend them their lawn-mower, and that somehow enabled them to buy the ticket and win, and so they sue. It's a greedy sense of entitlement and opportunism.

 

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The lawsuit is ancient news. What's changed is that Zenimax updated their claims against Oculus back in May, and that updated court document has now been made public.

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Hey now, it's not just "one of the chief engineers" it's John motherfucking Carmack we're talking about here. And if somebody snatched one of the most talented coders of the last 30 years from you well you'd be as salty as the lake in Utah as well.

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Anything bad for Oculus is  thumbs up from me

 

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This news has been around since facebook acquired oculus. Why is it here. 

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Lol. Good luck with that suit, ZeniMax :P

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1 hour ago, goodtofufriday said:

This news has been around since facebook acquired oculus. Why is it here. 

Because ZeniMax has updated their case with more specific information and allegations.

 

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/08/oculus-lawsuit-now-alleges-false-and-fanciful-origin-story-stolen-files/

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47 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Because ZeniMax has updated their case with more specific information and allegations.

 

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/08/oculus-lawsuit-now-alleges-false-and-fanciful-origin-story-stolen-files/

Then that should be included in the main post, not 8 comments down in a link. 

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On 24 August 2016 at 9:31 PM, That Norwegian Guy said:

Anything bad for Oculus is  thumbs up from me

 

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This is one of the few times that I would think otherwise, I hope Zenimax loses this one. You shouldn't "own" employee work from personal time and these new allegations sound far fetched and I'd like some better evidence with them.

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On 8/24/2016 at 6:17 PM, goodtofufriday said:

Then that should be included in the main post, not 8 comments down in a link. 

I'm on tech news sites, facebook and youtube all the time.  I've literally never heard of facebook being sued over Oculus.  And given how much Luke talks about VR stuff, I would think I would have heard it from him, on LTT.  Maybe I missed that video.  Sorry, but when I saw that article, it really was the first time I heard of this.  And re-reading the article, it also states that the suit was amended, so reading the article before complaining usually helps as well.

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The suit was originally filed shortly after Oculus was purchased by Facebook more than two years ago. I remember because I thought, "Facebook must not have known about this."

 

On 8/24/2016 at 10:47 PM, Castdeath97 said:

This is one of the few time that I would think otherwise, I hope Zenimax loses this one. You shouldn't "own" employee work from personal time and these new allegations sound far fetched and I'd like some better evidence with them.

It wasn't on his personal time, it was work John Carmack did for a Zenimax VR project, Carmack even admits that the VR work he did for Zenimax is owned by Zenimax but none of the work he did for Zenimax was used for the Rift. I get the impression that Zenimax is telling the truth, Carmack stole everything claimed, but he used it to guide employees instead of using the work itself...kind of like sketch artists I guess, being told a rough outline but not getting a super clear picture. He apparently has no VR patents of his own, probably for this reason exactly. In other words, guilty, but covered his tracks enough not to get in trouble.

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50 minutes ago, Yog said:

The suit was originally filed shortly after Oculus was purchased by Facebook more than two years ago. I remember because I thought, "Facebook must not have known about this."

 

It wasn't on his personal time, it was work John Carmack did for a Zenimax VR project, Carmack even admits that the VR work he did for Zenimax is owned by Zenimax but none of the work he did for Zenimax was used for the Rift. I get the impression that Zenimax is telling the truth, Carmack stole everything claimed, but he used it to guide employees instead of using the work itself...kind of like sketch artists I guess, being told a rough outline but not getting a super clear picture. He apparently has no VR patents of his own, probably for this reason exactly. In other words, guilty, but covered his tracks enough not to get in trouble.

I'd like some source for that l since it doesn't meet the common picture I see around here.

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