Are Internet Router Waves Dangerous?

[givingtnt]

12 hours ago, Zack Brown said:

Well his point is that it won't affect us while we sleep so that we could have a better sleep.

 

@manikyath @Quinnbeast @TheSuspenceful @SamStrecker @Donut417 @Potato_King @givingtnt @wrathoftheturkey @Sauron

GUYS WE DID IT !!

 

WE HELPED CHANGE SOMEBODY'S MIND !

[Heavygun1450]

Wifi will burn your skin and make it catch on fire and microwaves will make your head explode when you turn it on. So yes very very dangerous

[Guest]

3 hours ago, manikyath said:

inside microwave: 1KW

outside microwave: milliwats

how is that only slightly good?

 

if you're gonna talk people who are too stubborn to admit they're wrong...

I can admit i'm wrong. . .

 

Sure you aren't getting the full blast, but they still leak. I figured by "very very good" you meant 0% leakage. I consider some leakage as only slightly good.

 

Though I do love how you avoid every other point in my comment.

[Wombo]

On 2016-08-13 at 1:15 PM, Zack Brown said:

Are internet router waves dangerous? If so then what are its symptoms?

 

https://www.safespaceprotection.com/emf-health-risks/emf-health-effects/wi-fi-router-dangers/

The notion that the EMR used to transmit data in wireless networks is somehow dangerous is quite frankly moronic, and shows an extreme amount scientific incompetence.

 

Wireless signals from access points for Ethernet networks use a similar frequency to that of microwave ovens, at least when we talk about the 2.4Ghz spectrum. Have you ever pulled your food out of a microwave and thought "is this radioactive?", I sure would hope not. At a basic level a microwave heats food by causing the water molecules in the substance the oscillate. So with that said, yes, the same thing does happen to you with wireless waves, however, microwaves have capacitors that run the magnetron in the thousands of watts. Access point, by design and by regulation, may not exceed 1 watt. Most often, you're looking at power factors in the mili-watts. Secondly, the standing wave produced by a wireless access point doesn't actually contain enough power to cause a water molecule to oscillate, this requires FAR more power, and is why the aforementioned microwave ovens run in the thousands of watts. I should also add here it isn't the wave itself that oscillates the water molecule in a microwave, it is the fact that water is a polar molecule, and therefore will oscillate to keep itself  in the correct phase as the field changes. Technically you could achieve the same result by moving a magnet around really fast.

 

My final note, and probably the most important thing for everyone to remember is that the term radiation does not imply danger. Nuclear radiation, or alpha/beta decay is highly dangerous and is what people most often associate to he term radiation. Even then tho, it isn't that simple, if you have a smoke detector in your house, say hello to radioactive decay keeping it running! When it comes to wireless signals, we are actually talking about Electro Magnetic Radiation. This can range everywhere from waves as tall as mountains, to waves so small they can rip electrons from atoms. In the middle you have visible light which is a form of Electro Magnetic Radiation. Thirdly, thermal radiation anyone? Ever stood next to a stove or a fire?

 

Radiation in itself isn't harmful, and often times serves a very essential purpose, such as allowing us to see in the case of visible light within the electro magnetic spectrum of radiation. The type of radiation you need to avoid is what is called ionizing radiation, or the types of radiation that can interact with subatomic particles such as electrons and protons. Wireless signals from radio towers, wireless access points and cellphones, just aren't dangerous. They have been around for more than long enough for adverse affects to be seen and as I'm sure you're aware, there aren't any.

 

If you do believe you suffer adverse affects from the radiation released from wireless devices, need I remind you that visible light contains more energy than wireless access points. Additionally, a wireless device in your home pales in comparison to all the other forms of radiation flying through you at all times of the day. If you really feel that there is something to it, start wearing a tinfoil hat and let us all know if the Faraday cage helps you to feel better.

[AshleyAshes]

37 minutes ago, Wombo said:

The notion that the EMR used to transmit data in wireless networks is somehow dangerous is quite frankly moronic, and shows an extreme amount scientific incompetence.

 

Wireless signals from access points for Ethernet networks use a similar frequency to that of microwave ovens, at least when we talk about the 2.4Ghz spectrum. Have you ever pulled your food out of a microwave and thought "is this radioactive?", I sure would hope not. At a basic level a microwave heats food by causing the water molecules in the substance the oscillate. So with that said, yes, the same thing does happen to you with wireless waves, however, microwaves have capacitors that run the magnetron in the thousands of watts. Access point, by design and by regulation, may not exceed 1 watt. Most often, you're looking at power factors in the mili-watts. Secondly, the standing wave produced by a wireless access point doesn't actually contain enough power to cause a water molecule to oscillate, this requires FAR more power, and is why the aforementioned microwave ovens run in the thousands of watts. I should also add here it isn't the wave itself that oscillates the water molecule in a microwave, it is the fact that water is a polar water molecule, and therefore will oscillate to keep itself itself in the right phase. Technically you could achieve the same result by moving a magnet around really fast.

 

My final note, and probably the most important thing for everyone to remember is that the term radiation does not imply danger. Nuclear radiation, or alpha/beta decay is highly dangerous and is what people most often associate to he term radiation. Even then tho, it isn't that simple, if you have a smoke detector in your house, say hello to radioactive decay keeping it running! When it comes to wireless signals, we are actually talking about Electro Magnetic Radiation. This can range everywhere from waves as tall as mountains, to waves so small they can rip electrons from atoms. In the middle you have visible light which is a form of Electro Magnetic Radiation. Thirdly, thermal radiation anyone? Ever stood next to a stove or a fire?

 

Radiation in itself isn't harmful, and often times serves a very essential purpose, such as allowing us to see in the case of visible light within the electro magnetic spectrum of radiation. The type of radiation you need to avoid is what is called ionizing radiation, or the types of radiation that can interact with subatomic particles such as electrons and protons. Wireless signals from radio towers, wireless access points and cellphones, just aren't dangerous. They have been around for more than long enough for adverse affects to be seen and as I'm sure you're aware, there aren't any.

 

If you do believe you suffer adverse affects from the radiation released from wireless devices, need I remind you that visible light contains more energy than wireless access points. Additionally, a wireless device in your home pales in comparison to all the other forms of radiation flying through you at all times of the day. If you really feel that there is something to it, start wearing a tinfoil hat and let us all know if the Faraday cage helps you to feel better.

Don't forget Radon!  Radioactive Radon is literally just created by the decay of soils underneath structures and concentrates in the structures above.  That's perfectly 'natural' yet -actually dangerous-.  Yet all these people who who are like 'The wifi makes you sick' don't seem to own a radon detector! D:

[Godlygamer23]

It's non-ionizing radiation, and the energy levels are quite low. It's not likely to do anything. You're constantly being exposed to radiation, including visible light.

[spwath]

Lel, from the OP link, this product. $300 for a thing that does nothing

https://www.safespaceprotection.com/product/emf-adapter/

[DeletedAccount]

I sleep less than 2 metres away from a Ubiquiti Unifi AP... and have yet to experience any problems (although my family/friends would probably beg to differ :P)

[Wombo]

2 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

Don't forget Radon!  Radioactive Radon is literally just created by the decay of soils underneath structures and concentrates in the structures above.  That's perfectly 'natural' yet -actually dangerous-.  Yet all these people who who are like 'The wifi makes you sick' don't seem to own a radon detector! D:

A good point to make, this would be covered by the alhpa/beta decay statement however. Regardless, a good example of everyday radiation we are exposed to, and a a far more harmful version of radiation at that, however still relatively meaningless.

 

Radon is an element, it is the heaviest and only radioactive Noble Gas on the period table at this time. Radon is natural found in extremely small quantities in various soils around the world. Even with radiation from Radon decay coming to light, the levels are extremely low. Odds are you receive more radiation from Bananas than Radon. Yes bananas are radioactive.

[skywake]

I could cite the science here but I know some will ignore that. So instead I can say that from personal experience I haven't ever had any "health effects" from WiFi. It certainly hasn't disturbed my sleeping patterns. I say that as someone who has an access point literally in the room that I sleep in.

 

Now are there kinds of tech that do have impacts on my sleep? Well sure. Lights of any kind will keep me awake which is why I try to avoid having lights going. I tape over lights or disable them in the settings. When I haven't done that it's very hard to sleep. Another one is electrical noise, specifically coil whine. Fans are tolerable to a point but coil whine is unbearable if you want to get to sleep whatever the volume. Obviously alarms of any kind are also pretty obnoxious, by design. So I try to avoid those things. But WiFi? ... never had an issue.

 

So when someone says that they have some anecdotal evidence showing that WiFi impacts on their health/sleep etc? I call BS. But also wonder what else is going on for them to make that claim. Because most routers have pretty bright lights on them and quite a few routers have pretty average coil whine. So I think a lot of those supposed claims aren't actually about the WiFi

[manikyath]

9 hours ago, Lord_Doge said:

I can admit i'm wrong. . .

 

Sure you aren't getting the full blast, but they still leak. I figured by "very very good" you meant 0% leakage. I consider some leakage as only slightly good.

 

Though I do love how you avoid every other point in my comment.

because i got bored running in circles arguing with a doorknob.

 

in terms of the farraday cage, a modern, well-made microwave is 1KW inside, and the outside is that little that powerful wifi-enabled devices can work trough the microwave going full blast. (your phone is most likely still gonna eat dust tho)

 

however, it's still a pretty accepted norm that you shouldnt sit in front of your microwave and stare at your food being cooked, on the off chance something is wrong with said farraday cage and it leaks higher than the norm...

that power limit on wifi is there for a reason.

 

also, if you so insist on me explaining why i think it's not a very good thing for you, especially at night, here's some examples:

- some people need a pitch black darknes to sleep in, others dont.

- some people need quietness to sleep and wake up from the slightest sound, others dont.

- some people just sleep better when there's no wifi blasting into the room, others dont notice (as much).

 

note that i keep saying the word "blasting" and not "wifi is on". every wifi device i have has at least one bar of connection in the bedrooms, but i've noticed a significant difference in sleeping patterns, especially with my dad, who in simple terms basicly wont sleep on nights i have a strong wifi access point in the room next to his bedroom, and when i unplug said access point he sleeps like a rock.

 

i'd much prefer to say it's a fluke, or it's just other elements ligning up, but it's so notable and repeatable that it's pretty hard to argument against.

[Guest]

 

3 hours ago, manikyath said:

because i got bored running in circles arguing with a doorknob.

I do agree, arguing with a doorknob is becoming quite annoying.

 

3 hours ago, manikyath said:

i'd much prefer to say it's a fluke, or it's just other elements *lining* up, but it's so notable and repeatable that it's pretty hard to argument against.

Except that almost everyone here has argued with you, you lack a single good point yet you continue the bullshit.

[manikyath]

14 minutes ago, Lord_Doge said:

Except that almost everyone here has argued with you, you lack a single good point yet you continue the bullshit.

4 hours ago, manikyath said:

my dad, who in simple terms basicly wont sleep on nights i have a strong wifi access point in the room next to his bedroom, and when i unplug said access point he sleeps like a rock.

do i need to reiterate once more that my dad doesnt even know what a wifi access point looks like, let alone actually knows when i tuck one in somewhere out of sight?

[Dackzy]

umm kek wtf is going on here? Also I can back @manikyath claim up. My family also had some of those problems he listed, then I moved the wifi router and lowered the signal, it helped.

 

Again as he said, it is not "dangerous"

[manikyath]

Just now, Dackzy said:

umm kek wtf is going on here? Also I can back @manikyath claim up. My family also had some of those problems he listed, then I moved the wifi router and lowered the signal, it helped.

THANK YOU.

finally some sense...

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, Dackzy said:

Again as he said, it is not "dangerous"

i started out saying that "if you have X, Y and Z, try this as a start"

i like how they twist my words, and turn it into me saying wifi will boil your brains between 10PM and 8AM...

 

i'm the first one to say wifi isnt nearly as bad as some make it out to be, but honestly if you notice issues, just try it.

(by the way, my doctor, who is probably more knowledgable than any of us in this thread, recommends the same. usually in the same breath as recommending quietness and less light when having sleeping difficulties.)

 

i'll just put it like this: i'd rather be careful now than have another asbestus in 30 years.

[Dackzy]

4 minutes ago, manikyath said:

i started out saying that "if you have X, Y and Z, try this as a start"

i like how they twist my words, and turn it into me saying wifi will boil your brains between 10PM and 8AM...

That is LTT for you... Someone will always do that..

[manikyath]

8 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

That is LTT for you... Someone will always do that..

wouldnt be here if i didnt love every second of it

 

EDIT: my brain is really jello today...

[skywake]

40 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

umm kek wtf is going on here? Also I can back @manikyath claim up. My family also had some of those problems he listed, then I moved the wifi router and lowered the signal, it helped.

Those symptoms are the common catch-all quackery symptoms put up by all this sort of garbage. Headaches, loss of sleep, that sort of thing. Things that everyone gets and can be the result of any number of things. Headaches can be because you're not drinking enough water or because you're having too much caffeine. Maybe you have a bit of mild-flu coming on. If you're not sleeping it might be because you're a bit stressed out. You might have something on your mind. There might be too many lights where you sleep or too much noise. There are a lot of causes for these sort of symptoms.

 

As an individual I can only speak anecdotally. But given that's what passes for good science on the internet? Well let me lay it out like this. Sometimes I do get headaches, sometimes I lose sleep. Everyone does. Recently I put an access point in the room that I sleep in so I could get better coverage across the house. It's been about a couple of weeks since I've done this. In those two weeks? No headaches and I've slept well. Except for one night. And guess what, on that night I didn't sleep at home

 

So therefore I conclude that WiFi is good for you. WiFi cures headaches and helps you sleep!

[Dackzy]

8 minutes ago, skywake said:

SNIP

My family had it for 3 weeks or so and I did the same as manikyath and it went away, if it only was for a couple of days then sure it was a accident, but not 3 weeks and then suddenly gone the same night as I did it, also I have talked to a doctor and a friend that is studying the human body they both said that it would be a good idea to try and see if it worked. Just because you have not tried it doesn't mean that it is BS.

[skywake]

1 hour ago, Dackzy said:

My family had it for 3 weeks or so and I did the same as manikyath and it went away, if it only was for a couple of days then sure it was a accident, but not 3 weeks and then suddenly gone the same night as I did it, also I have talked to a doctor and a friend that is studying the human body they both said that it would be a good idea to try and see if it worked. Just because you have not tried it doesn't mean that it is BS.

I can only assume you decided not to read my whole post when I started off by calling it quackery. Infact I did inadvertently try the exact same anecdotal experiment. I just got the opposite result. If anything the period after I've moved the AP into my room I've been sleeping better and had less headaches. So either the WiFi has "cured" me or the two are entirely independent events that sometimes overlap for some people because of pure chance. Also the placebo effect, confirmation bias and so on.

 

Are you disregarding my experimental evidence because you don't like the result? Because I could not for the life of me repeat your results. I have had plenty of headaches and bad night sleeps away from WiFi and plenty of the reverse with an AP right ontop of me.

[Dackzy]

6 minutes ago, skywake said:

SNIP

I am not diregarding anything I am just telling you what went down for me.

[skywake]

Just now, Dackzy said:

I am not diregarding anything I am just telling you what went down for me.

Science is about repeatable experiments. I did the same thing, I got different results. 

[Dackzy]

Just now, skywake said:

Science is about repeatable experiments. 

yes I know

[skywake]

1 minute ago, Dackzy said:

yes I know

Well then you'd also know about a few other things. For one that knowing what the outcome should be, especially with a physiological experiment, can alter the results. The placebo effect. When you did this on yourself you knew what the result should be. I on the other hand wasn't aware I was doing this experiment. It just happens that I specifically remember having a bad night sleep the one night I wasn't sleeping next to an AP.

 

The second thing you'd also know is the tendency to report something novel. Those times when you didn't have a headache when you were next to the AP? Those aren't really interesting, you didn't have a headache and you slept well. The times when you had a bad night sleep and there was no WiFi? Well there was no WiFi, it was probably something else. The times where you had a headache and there was WiFi? Well there's the WiFi, people say WiFi is bad, must've been the WiFi.

 

It's like reading product reviews online. You google a thing to find out whether it's a good buy or not and it's just people complaining about it. Why? Well because the people who have nothing to complain about it have no reason to go online to talk about it. You don't hear the motherboard reviews where the guy plugged everything in and it worked. You hear the ones where it didn't POST and they had issues with RAM compatibility, customer service was horrible etc, ect. It's the same thing here.