Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

[Asasinas]

Please show my VIDEO of No Man's Sky to the Nvidia guy. The problem is visible very clearly. Tell him that this flickering started 8 months ago without any reason on 7 different builds in 90% of my games. Wonder what he will say. Well, probably he will say that there is no any problem.

 

And in my case, this happens in both DX11 and DX12. Tried The Division 2 in both DX modes and the flickering was there. Is there a way to properly uninstall and reinstall DirectX?

[lobolaw1984]

Glad to see people taking action. I am really hopeful that we will figure it out.

[LilStormi]

Take a look at my vids and tell me if im dealing with the same problem or its a Hardware issue 

 

https://imgur.com/a/ZyaPNw3

here are 3 vids that kinda explain the prob

 

http://imgur.com/gallery/mS7phmV

here is a vid from Rainbow6 Siege which shows the problem clearly 

 

i started a discussion in Nvidia Froums 10 days ago and someone came along and gave me a link to this post so i thought i could share my problem with you lads also

 

Rig:

7RE Dominator pro laptop which uses: GeForce GTX 1070

I7-7700HQ CPU

16GB of Ram

120hz Monitor 1920 x 1080

[d0L_0b]

Hmm. Maybe Redownloading or reinstalling DirectX 11 and 9 but i wouldnt know how to go about doing that, Or try uninstalling DX11 and 9 completely and trying a fresh install of either of the two on a new system with an old hard drive to see if it could change anything. But i have noticed that DX12 in a good chunk of my games seem to completely get rid of jaggies, however the jagged edges still appear when i am using my normal windows so idk, but its very clear when i play Division 2 and Control that DX12 works wonders, if only older games had DX12 support -.-

[DaoNayt]

Changing DX versions in GTA V for example doesnt make a difference. You can't really uninstall DX because its an integral part of Windows. And it doesn't matter anyway, even a clean format and reinstall of Windows doesnt make a difference.

[Asasinas]

Just tried new game, GreedFall, and it has all the flickering and shimmering like in other games... 

 

TAA gives shimmering and also some jaggies, while FXAA... I don't know what to say... it's some kind of moving coating over surface of the textures... Even turning AA off doesn't get rid of it. In short: AA is a total mess.

 

 

 

I also tried DOOM (2016) and TAA in this game looks surprisingly good. There is only slight flickering of edges when moving and jaggies are also almost non-existant. Instead, it's the TSSAA, which gives me flickering and shimmering, like in other games...

[DaoNayt]

Weird, it's the TSSAA that is the only one that works for me in DOOM.

[I_dont_know200]

I just made this post on the official nvidia forum, not that i expect to get anywhere with it, but still some things had to be said.

 

New link since nvidia auto deletes "negativ" posts, aka they are invisible to everyone.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/geforce-graphics-cards/5/316578/lets-talk-about-this-nvidia/

[acisheree]

i contacted nvidia support again and they said it will be hardware issue but i don't think so. and i also contacted with manufacturer zotac, they said it's not hardware issue. they are still talking about anti aliasing settings. i am tired about that.

[I_dont_know200]

1 hour ago, acisheree said:

i contacted nvidia support again and they said it will be hardware issue but i don't think so. and i also contacted with manufacturer zotac, they said it's not hardware issue. they are still talking about anti aliasing settings. i am tired about that.

Atleast it seems that we get more everyday i just checked some comments on the videos and the numbers of people asking about this are rising same on the nvidia forums, means at some point they will be forced to fix this.

[I_dont_know200]

On 9/6/2019 at 11:39 PM, Asasinas said:

Please show my VIDEO of No Man's Sky to the Nvidia guy. The problem is visible very clearly. Tell him that this flickering started 8 months ago without any reason on 7 different builds in 90% of my games. Wonder what he will say. Well, probably he will say that there is no any problem.

 

And in my case, this happens in both DX11 and DX12. Tried The Division 2 in both DX modes and the flickering was there. Is there a way to properly uninstall and reinstall DirectX?

I had a nice talk with a guy on reddit he was able to replicate that issue in No Man's Sky which is interessting, i used your video for showcase purposes btw.

[Asasinas]

3 hours ago, I_dont_know200 said:

I had a nice talk with a guy on reddit he was able to replicate that issue in No Man's Sky which is interessting, i used your video for showcase purposes btw.

Replicate... you mean he did something on his PC and the flickering has started? What exactly did he to replicate it!?

[I_dont_know200]

15 minutes ago, Asasinas said:

Replicate... you mean he did something on his PC and the flickering has started? What exactly did he to replicate it!?

Well he was able to replicate something similar in no mans sky specifically, by turning off certain options i think and apparently MFAA and TAA dont work well together.

[DaoNayt]

Can he make a video?

[I_dont_know200]

10 minutes ago, DaoNayt said:

Can he make a video?

I dont think so had to explain too him how to make videos.

Take this info with a grain of salt though.

 

Thats what he said:

"I just tested and I can reproduce the flicker in No Man's Sky. That one at least just looks like a bad TAA implementation."

[I_dont_know200]

On 8/6/2016 at 10:49 PM, TalosXT said:

1. Shadow Acne (Main one)

Another common artifact found in shadow mapping is shadow acne, or erroneous self-shadowing.  This generally occurs when the texel depth in light space and the texel depth in view space are so close that floating point errors incorrectly cause the depth test to fail. There are a few ways to address this issue.  It’s so prevalent, that most graphics APIs provide a means to instantiate a rasterizer state that includes both a depth bias and a slope-scaled depth bias.  Essentially, during shadow map creation, these values are used in combination to offset the current value by a certain amount and push it out of the range where floating point inaccuracies would cause inaccurate comparisons.  One must be careful when setting these bias values.  Too high of a value can cause the next issue to be discussed, peter panning, while too low of a value will still let acne artifacts creep back.

 

2. Peter Panning

It’s frustrating when introducing a fix for one thing breaks something else.  That’s exactly what we can potentially end up with when we use depth biases for shadow maps.  Peter Panning is caused by offsetting the depth values in light space too much.  The result is that the shadow becomes detached from the object casting it. Sometimes the depth bias is so large that it pushes the shadow away from the caster, causing them to appear as though they could be floating. 

 

3. Perspective Aliasing

These types of artifacts are perhaps the simplest to alleviate.  Stair-like artifacts outlining the projected shadows are generally caused by the resolution of the shadow map being too low. Unfortunately, increasing the resolution will only get us so far.  Even at high resolutions, if the viewer is close enough to the receiving surface, tiny stair-like artifacts will still be noticeable along the edges of projected shadows.  The solution to this is to use a technique called percentage closer filtering (PCF).  Instead of sampling at one location, this algorithm samples several points around the initial location, weighs the results that are shadowed versus non-shadowed, and creates soft edges for the result. 

From an very early post maybe we should get into those stuff again and try to fix this finally?

[Asasinas]

MFAA? I always kept this off in NVCP. For me, it doesn't matter if I set everything in game low or high, flickering stays no matter what.

[I_dont_know200]

2 minutes ago, Asasinas said:

MFAA? I always kept this off in NVCP. For me, it doesn't matter if I set everything in game low or high, flickering stays no matter what.

I know i told him that aswell. I think we are at a point where its faster to learn coding in windows and engines to fix this.... atleast that would make a good job application.

 

Edit:

 

We could start writing PMs to big youtubers maybe talk to a mod here maybe he can talk to the linustechtips team.

[Asasinas]

6 minutes ago, I_dont_know200 said:

From an very early post maybe we should get into those stuff again and try to fix this finally?

 

Well, we already did everything what was told in that early post. We tried higher resolutions. I personally tried DSR, different monitors and 4K TV, different settings on them, different cables, but it has zero effect on flickering. We need a clever person to suggest something NEW, something what we haven't tried already.

[I_dont_know200]

Just now, Asasinas said:

 

Well, we already did everything what was told in that early post. We tried higher resolutions. I personally tried DSR, different monitors and 4K TV, different settings on them, different cables, but it has zero effect on flickering. We need a clever person to suggest something NEW, something what we haven't tried already.

Well i know for sure DSR can make a difference but as in the post i dug out mentioned higher resolution will only get us to a certain point and will never be a fix.

What we need to do is get some people over here that might help us.

[I_dont_know200]

This is the Problem --> For all the new people

Feel free to repost/edit this if necessary

 

The Problem:

 

It is probably the most annoying and persistent bug i ever had, it looks like a case of bad flickering on edges and transparent things (fences, windows, leaves and plants), it happens in all games for many even on youtube videos and for some on the Desktop, Bios Logo etc.

Its strength is different for each Game some are barely playable anymore others only have a few locations where its noticeable.

There is definitly a connection to Anti Aliasing and Shadows since turning off Shadows can greatly reduce this, advanced AA Settings like MSAA can even improve this significantly but there is a huge performance loss and its not applicable in all Games.

In General its like AA is only working partily, in close aproximity to the player character everything looks fine besides weapon models, also noticeable is that for example a very detailed mesh is more inclined to have it.

There are also reported cases of low draw distance etc. you can read it up in the posted links.

 

How it happend:

 

In this regard all cases are similar it happend overnight and for many on all devices, this includes not connected devices like smartphones and notebooks, taking your smartphone to a different location doesn't work either buying new devices or components only worked in very few cases most of em not even confirmed.

 

Known devices with this issue: Desktop PCs, Notebooks, Consoles (PS4 and Xbox one), Smartphones, TVs and Monitors

 

Is it Hardware related?

 

At this point and after over a month of research testing and troubleshooting i think its safe to assume that its not hardware related nothing suggests this.

 

What has been tried yet?

 

 

Tried by myself (and others):

 

• Full OS reinstall with CMOS clean

• Reinstall drivers

• Checking cables and monitors

• Checking router and other peripherals

• Test devices at different locations

• Driver rollback (with DDU aswell)

• Testing all Hardware components (didnt do that myself since i lack the necessary equipment)

• Switching GPU, PSU and other parts

• Playing arround with Nvidia System Control and Inspector

 

I will add to this list if there are any more suggestions or solution approaches.

 

You are just Imagining this!!

 

No we are not and quite frankly i am annoyed by those comments by now, this is very real and prevents many from enjoying there freetime, but nevertheless i understand why many people think this, since it was observed by a few people me included, that this problem is only visible if you have it or it is filmed with a camera ofscreen, i might post a few examples since youtube really lacks that kind of footage.

 

Its just Aliasing, buy a 4k monitor or use DSR!!

 

Well here we go again aren't we? (>_>) i can assure you after thorough testing and research its not normal AA behaviour, some people followed this advice though and only had maginal improvements, besides the fact that those measures where not necessary beforehand.

In terms of DSR and other options they work but only very limited, i only had success with ingame MSAA/DSR and that was performance heavy while only masking the issue.

[Asasinas]

Like we talked previously, we need to to offer a prize to a person who solves the problem. I think that's the only way to attract new and clever people to help us out. We also need to spread the word about the reward, for example, maybe linus could help with that,

 

I just simply don't know what to do anymore. My head is empty. There is nothing more to try. Like I said previously, I've already reached end of the line.

[I_dont_know200]

20 minutes ago, Asasinas said:

Like we talked previously, we need to to offer a prize to a person who solves the problem. I think that's the only way to attract new and clever people to help us out. We also need to spread the word about the reward, for example, maybe linus could help with that,

How would you go about that? I mean we can ofcourse collectivly pay a software engineer to fix this but thats expensive as fuck.

I mean if you ask me a clean streamlined thread would be a good start then try get people onboard, give the issue a defining name add video proof to the official new thread so no one can tell us its bullshit.

I want to talk that through with all you guys though since it would kind of be a group project to get this fixed.

 

Edit: I think even a own subreddit dedicated to unsolvable bugs wouldnt be out of the question.

[testozyd]

Same problem + low draw distance in Rising Storm 2, Squad, Minecraft, Red Orchestra 2 and many other games. I had similar problem with my last computer and here we go again. Every part is brand new and I have this computer for about 3 weeks.

 

Win 10 home, Ryzen 5 2600, RX570 8GB, Gigabyte B450M S2H, Thermaltake Smart BX1 550W

 

(ultra settings)

[lobolaw1984]

4 hours ago, Asasinas said:

 

Well, we already did everything what was told in that early post. We tried higher resolutions. I personally tried DSR, different monitors and 4K TV, different settings on them, different cables, but it has zero effect on flickering. We need a clever person to suggest something NEW, something what we haven't tried already.

I continue to believe that there must be a solution. There must be someone smart enough to figure this out.

 

Regarding the DSR - it is pretty much a band-aid. It only minimizes and hides the problem, but it is definitely still there. Games looked better at 1440 without the problem then they do at 4K with the problem.