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KenjiD5

Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

wkdpaul

* Warnings WILL be issued for antagonizing, rude and/or condescending replies, if you can't (or won't) help, then don't reply and move on *

Please avoid accusing others that they are lying. Members are coming to this thread to ask for help regarding a specific problem and it should be assumed that they are truthful with their statement, bluntly putting that into questions will result in your reply being removed regardless of the informations it contains.

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Here is from the Nvidia forum from a guy who knows his stuff

 

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Overwatch uses deferred rendering. As a result, it's unlikely you'll ever be able to get any kind of forward AA (SSAA or MSAA) to work, and if there's any chance of it you'll have to play around with the compatibility bits. The same is true for any other game using deferred rendering (eg MGSV, GTA IV, Halo, Deus Ex 3, etc).

DSR works because it's not technically a form of antialiasing - it's just rendering at a higher resolution. The in-game Render Scale option does much the same thing only using a bicubic filter instead of NVidia's gaussian. But it's because of this near-universal compatibility that they added it in the first place.

 

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Minecraft has always been hit and miss with forward AA, largely because its in-built renderer is a load of garbage. If you use OptiFine than it should work, but otherwise you'll need to hunt for a compatibility bit or use post AA instead. In the event you do get forward AA to work, you'll likely be presented with white wireframe boxes around some objects (especially torches).

NFS:PS, from what I can tell, hasn't worked properly with AA from launch either. A quick search shows threads dating back 8 years on hardware from all vendors experiencing similar. It reads like it's possibly the lighting causing it (a lot of references also to the shadows) so perhaps turning down or off some related settings might let it work.

Perhaps you should be testing titles known to have worked, instead of titles known to have issues. Soul Reaver, Kingpin, Darksiders, Mafia, CoD2 - things which predate the wide-spread application of deferred rendering.Compatibility bits also allow the likes of Borderlands (all of them), Darksiders II, Warhammer 40k Space Marine, Mafia II and such to work, but you'll need to find and implement those bits first.

 

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And, as I've already mentioned, Overwatch doesn't work with externally applied forward AA. It uses a combination of supersampling and PPAA, and they may not have had supersampling enabled for that video.

The biggest issue seems to be people not understanding the limitations of various forms of AA. They expect it to be able to fix every single edge in all situations so long as AA is enabled at all. This is demonstrably false, and having even a basic understanding of the various AA methods makes it clear as to why.

CoD2 and Darksiders work with it [forward AA] just fine. However if you're only using MSAA than you're going to see edges on things like leaves, grass, hair, chain-link or barbed wire fences, and various effects. This is because MSAA only works on geometry and those things, among others, are faked using transparent textures instead. MSAA with alpha testing (aka AAA or TrAA) is designed for this purpose but it still won't affect intra-texture aliasing or anything caused by a shader - to get everything you need to use SSAA.

This is why DSR (and AMD's VSR) came into existence in the first place. You can use them to brute-force OGSSAA on everything that supports a higher resolution without the need for compatibility bits and the like. OGSSAA, however, can still show amounts of aliasing close to perfectly vertical and horizontal depending on just how much you're oversampling the image and what filter you're using to resize it down.

Basically there is no fix until we have better AA or new technology. DSR fixes it but is very taxing on systems. I still wonder why it just started randomly though

 


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Just keeping this here as a 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1 minute ago, SamStrecker said:

Here is from the Nvidia forum from a guy who knows his stuff

 

 

 

Basically there is no fix until we have better AA or new technology. DSR fixes it but is very taxing on systems. I still wonder why it just started randomly though

 

Sry but thats bullshit for me , I played for 6 years where AA  kinda doesnt even existed and I never suffered from this until 4 months ago .

 

And I exactly now how my games looked like  even old games now looks more worse ,  and its not only AA ! like everything is messed up, like Eljiah already explained:

 

"

So apparently LoD bias is a general topic in OpenGL SL so im trying to narrow it down as much as I could. So right now i know the problem is that Shadow Depth Map Algorithem is messing up.  This algorithem has 2 passes. The first pass is to use the Vertex shader to generate a depth map using the World Space coords and the camera projection information. The second pass is for the Vertex shader to take in the vertecies that are being selected using a combination of our previous camera projection information and World space map and sends it to the "Pixel Shader" to have the depth map projected on it using a matrix.

 

Now the Vertex shader has to do two calculations here and it can't do it at same time. Any delay or miscalculation in any pass can result in artifacts. Here are multiple scenarios:

 

1. First pass is completed but the depth map is Not smooth out through space (1-1-1-0-0-0 instead of 1-0.75-0.5-0.25-0)> second pass is completed successfully> result in shadow popping and hard transformation from high res shadows to low rez blocky shadows.

 

2. First pass is being completed in delay (a hardware/code slowing it down?)> second pass completed successfully> Flickering and Shimmering of shadows and jaggy edges (it gets fixed when there is no camera motion since the second pass is not being applied anymore)

 

3. First pass is completed successfully> second pass Is completed with miscalculation> object popping or misplaced shadows aka peter panning + shadow is different shape than object

 

4. First pass completed successfully> second pass delays> flickering and alaising alphas (transparent textures like grass, trees or vertex paint like snow on a thatch roof or moss on a wall)

 

5. First pass contains faults such as artifacts on special surfaces such as metal or specular (shiny)> second pass is completed> grains and noise on metal/wet surfaces.

 

6. First pass completed with grain artifacts and is blurred out> Second pass forcibly takes in the blurry depth map> causes shadow acne

 

note that one can have all the problems above or maybe one of them or two. I hope i explained it as best as i could. "

 

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee416324(v=vs.85).aspx

 

We all just got this randomly what does that mean? --> It should not look like this whatever people saying.

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33 minutes ago, SpeedUp10 said:

Sry but thats bullshit for me , I played for 6 years where AA  kinda doesnt even existed and I never suffered from this until 4 months ago .

 

And I exactly now how my games looked like  even old games now looks more worse ,  and its not only AA ! like everything is messed up, like Eljiah already explained:

 

"

So apparently LoD bias is a general topic in OpenGL SL so im trying to narrow it down as much as I could. So right now i know the problem is that Shadow Depth Map Algorithem is messing up.  This algorithem has 2 passes. The first pass is to use the Vertex shader to generate a depth map using the World Space coords and the camera projection information. The second pass is for the Vertex shader to take in the vertecies that are being selected using a combination of our previous camera projection information and World space map and sends it to the "Pixel Shader" to have the depth map projected on it using a matrix.

 

Now the Vertex shader has to do two calculations here and it can't do it at same time. Any delay or miscalculation in any pass can result in artifacts. Here are multiple scenarios:

 

1. First pass is completed but the depth map is Not smooth out through space (1-1-1-0-0-0 instead of 1-0.75-0.5-0.25-0)> second pass is completed successfully> result in shadow popping and hard transformation from high res shadows to low rez blocky shadows.

 

2. First pass is being completed in delay (a hardware/code slowing it down?)> second pass completed successfully> Flickering and Shimmering of shadows and jaggy edges (it gets fixed when there is no camera motion since the second pass is not being applied anymore)

 

3. First pass is completed successfully> second pass Is completed with miscalculation> object popping or misplaced shadows aka peter panning + shadow is different shape than object

 

4. First pass completed successfully> second pass delays> flickering and alaising alphas (transparent textures like grass, trees or vertex paint like snow on a thatch roof or moss on a wall)

 

5. First pass contains faults such as artifacts on special surfaces such as metal or specular (shiny)> second pass is completed> grains and noise on metal/wet surfaces.

 

6. First pass completed with grain artifacts and is blurred out> Second pass forcibly takes in the blurry depth map> causes shadow acne

 

note that one can have all the problems above or maybe one of them or two. I hope i explained it as best as i could. "

 

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee416324(v=vs.85).aspx

 

We all just got this randomly what does that mean? --> It should not look like this whatever people saying.

I mean I agree. On game that are on a CD it looks much worse now. Also happened randomly a couple weeks ago too. Nothing changed


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted · Original PosterOP

woah i am watching some videos and suprised to see this Untitled.png

 

it turns out it was like everyone in the earth is having these problems 

 

 

 

go watch it from 3:33 to 3:58

 

you can see the shadows in mw1 have low draw distance while in mw2 it looks good i think and at mw3 it was pixelated

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Posted · Original PosterOP

so hello guys i heard that there was a issue like this back in 2004 but they solve it by going back to the old driver 64.xx yeah that is way too old.. however what if we downgrade our driver to 2xx.xx maybe it should work or downgrade it to 300-33x.xx 

 

 

so hey here is a hint...

 

NEVER PLAY NO ANTI ALIASING SKY!!!!

 

no man sky

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Hello guys I suffer the same problem . I'm 100% sure the problem is related to ENB .

I installed ENB tested the wrapper and injector version and also I tried many ENB's presets from nexus for Fallout 3 .

The problems started after ENB's shimmering edges shadow problems and very poor LOD also trees and grass look like made from cardboard , some gras is also semi transparent . I think some shadow settings from ENB messed our shadows.

 

Soon I will replace my AMD card to another AMD card but I dont expect solution after reading 99 pages thred on nvidia forums and topics on linus tech tips.

I'm close to quitting gaming after 20 years of gaming because of this mysterious bug.

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Even in the overwatch trailer they had it going on. I think it is out of our control but complaining to Dev might help. Not annoying but helpful


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Tried many things: in short form,

 

I bought a new computer everything new except psu and case, everything fixed, then i went to Bios, to disable Intel speedstep , booted again to windows, then i got several bluescreens like system_services_exception with like ntoskrnl.exe as error  and memory mangament bsods. What turned out, after the bsods my screen just went from self from 144hz to 60hz for a few seconds then i thought ok w/e, started games and problem came back and 2 ram slots died. After that i sent the stuff back. So yeah dont know what to say.

 

Bought again a new system this time everything new except the graphic card and the case, changed nothing problem still there from beginning.

 

So in order to fix buy a completly new pc. 

 

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On 28/10/2016 at 7:41 PM, SpeedUp10 said:

Tried many things: in short form,

 

I bought a new computer everything new except psu and case, everything fixed, then i went to Bios, to disable Intel speedstep , booted again to windows, then i got several bluescreens like system_services_exception with like ntoskrnl.exe as error  and memory mangament bsods. What turned out, after the bsods my screen just went from self from 144hz to 60hz for a few seconds then i thought ok w/e, started games and problem came back and 2 ram slots died. After that i sent the stuff back. So yeah dont know what to say.

 

Bought again a new system this time everything new except the graphic card and the case, changed nothing problem still there from beginning.

 

So in order to fix buy a completly new pc. 

 

so if I completely changed my pc my problem will be solved?
You're sure about that?

 

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Hi guys I had 6950 2 gb Amd radeon, I was playing gta 5, witcher 3 on low settings full hd, no AA, it looked so wonderful even with no aa, I bought new parts to pc cpu i7 4790K( I noticed many people with this cpu have the issue) 16 GB 1866 Mhz hyperx, and my GPU MSI 1060 6gb version, first two weeks wonderful play, everything looked amazing on ultra full hd preset, gta 5 witcher 3 too, but I have seen rendering path infront of me while going to the city, but didnt see the flickering, just I searched about it if someone can solve this but I wasnt into it much, it was playable and was noticable more when I was going to city, but I got to the topic of flickering/shimmering, jagged edges, broken aliasing, then I was about to check this to the game and I had it ( witcher 3) I logged to gta 5 and had it too, My friends was playing games on my pc and didnt notice it, so I dont know if it is not really in our heads, because this problem persist 2 weeks for me and I am about to die , have problem with sleep too, I cant enjoy the games like before, When I think racional, it is normal aa then I cant unsee now, but I just cannot belive this is normal and start beliveing it is software issue, because GPU cannot downgrade as hardware, maybe just as software problems and PSU makes clear electricity so there shouldnt be electrical issue, and the psu I was running on my old gpu and problem wasnt there, and amd gpu s have these issues too, so the most propably is it is in our heads, because I see it on mobile now too, ( but hard to belive I couldt see it before, cause 4 years of gambling and no issues like this)

I will try to compare games from laptop and my pc ( old games because laptot has only cpu graphic) I will report back, also go compare games to my friend s house and pc on same settings

 

Sorry for my english, I am not form english speaking country

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And also have I just think videos looks more blurry and grainy, so if is this problem real, than I think it is because GPU show us less pixels = more aa and it explains why videos looks blurry/ grainy, just my theory, sorry for thinking if is this problem real or not, but I have never seen video that proves it like before same settings in NCP Nvinspector, or amd catalyst, and ingame same settings, I know many of you plays games for years but as I said everything can be possible such as real problem

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This issue triggered by games mostly games like GTA V or Witcher or other big games. For me it happened after i played The Divison. Its definitly smth wrong this is not normal. But nothing we can do beside buying a new pc.

 

I will try a last thing, will reply if it worked or not.

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2 hours ago, SpeedUp10 said:

This issue triggered by games mostly games like GTA V or Witcher or other big games. For me it happened after i played The Divison. Its definitly smth wrong this is not normal. But nothing we can do beside buying a new pc.

 

I will try a last thing, will reply if it worked or not.

Yea please report back if it helps, but dont use anything that was conected to the pc that has the problem really nothing, completely new mouse, keyboard, headphones ... and

dont install windows from usb or dvd that was in pc, so completely new with no contact I support, but its on your choice

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Ok guys I am back here. I have tested three diferrent computers of this problem, and alliasing, jagged edges, are normal on 1080p, that video from the crew I dont know what settings are used, maybe there is a problem, but flickering and shimmering in gta 5 is normal, too flickering shadows are normal in gta 5, it is how the game was made, I didnt notice this before cause older gpu and cpu and ram, so I was noticing and focusing only on the fps, in conclusion this flickering anomalies are normal, but not all, that video from the crew is really awful to see not to play, so maybe there is something, but the gta 5 videos are all normal I can say, it was tested on same settings on three diferrent PCs and in different houses, never came to contact

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On 12.11.2016 at 7:41 PM, Solrig said:

Ok guys I am back here. I have tested three diferrent computers of this problem, and alliasing, jagged edges, are normal on 1080p, that video from the crew I dont know what settings are used, maybe there is a problem, but flickering and shimmering in gta 5 is normal, too flickering shadows are normal in gta 5, it is how the game was made, I didnt notice this before cause older gpu and cpu and ram, so I was noticing and focusing only on the fps, in conclusion this flickering anomalies are normal, but not all, that video from the crew is really awful to see not to play, so maybe there is something, but the gta 5 videos are all normal I can say, it was tested on same settings on three diferrent PCs and in different houses, never came to contact

GTA 5 was never like that before. I played that game since lunch. Its not about gta 5 or another specific game. if you have this problem in one game, each game has same sympthoms. I have many games and all games has same sympthoms.

 

I have been playing World of Warcraft since 2004 and everyday. Wow has same problem. Game looks shit but i play.

 

There is no fix for this problem at the moment. Nobody fixed it. You HAVE TO COMPLETELY change your computer and yes throw that computer away from window. its useless.

 

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10 minutes ago, Karalum said:

GTA 5 was never like that before. I played that game since lunch. Its not about gta 5 or another specific game. if you have this problem in one game, each game has same sympthoms. I have many games and all games has same sympthoms.

 

I have been playing World of Warcraft since 2004 and everyday. Wow has same problem. Game looks shit but i play.

 

There is no fix for this problem at the moment. Nobody fixed it. You HAVE TO COMPLETELY change your computer and yes throw that computer away from window. its useless.

 

I looked into it and it is a combination of LOD bias compensating for AA which has been broken from the start but something changed and now you see it. Looks like garbage but apparently there is no fix which sounds made up.


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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On 11/12/2016 at 5:41 PM, Solrig said:

Ok guys I am back here. I have tested three diferrent computers of this problem, and alliasing, jagged edges, are normal on 1080p, that video from the crew I dont know what settings are used, maybe there is a problem, but flickering and shimmering in gta 5 is normal, too flickering shadows are normal in gta 5, it is how the game was made, I didnt notice this before cause older gpu and cpu and ram, so I was noticing and focusing only on the fps, in conclusion this flickering anomalies are normal, but not all, that video from the crew is really awful to see not to play, so maybe there is something, but the gta 5 videos are all normal I can say, it was tested on same settings on three diferrent PCs and in different houses, never came to contact

 

I can assure you the problem is not in your head , the problem is real .

I'm almost done with selling all my stuff , when I do that gonna try new computer with USP with AVR

I still need more hardware to run tests .

 

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Got the same issue guys. Well, at least I think it's the same - suddenly not only my games, but even videos and even Windows 10 looks horrible. 
It's either aliasing or something like flickering (maybe white flickering).
Games suffer from terrible alliasing especialy. I even tried to change my monitor, my video card and experiment with hooking up my pc to different wall socket.
I partially solved my problem with windows fonts by changing the size of text and elements in windows settings to 125%, but sadly the games are still hard to look at (i litteraly get eye strain from playing more than half-an-hour at a time).
Yes, I have a perfect eyesight (i tested it a month ago) and I don't have this problem on other computers.
What's interesting - my roommate has the same terrible aliasing in games (which I remember without such problems) (for example Brothers: Tale of Two Sons) but she doesn't notice it  at all. AND I CLEARLY REMEMBER THAT THOSE GAMES WERE HAVING A NICE SMOOTH GRAPHICS BEFORE.
Also got this problems on my ps4 (not sure if they were there before).
This stuff is killing me :(
P.S. It's especially bad with strategies and rpg's like Tyranny (the text in this game is litteraly unreadable because of this problem - it looks like it's flashing or just burning with bright light).
P.P.S. I have GTX 970 and 144hz monitor. Switching to 60hz solves nothing.
P.P.S. Games have problem while moving (you know - flickering grass and stuff). And videos have the problem with moving elements - like with panning camera or fast moving objects.

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