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KenjiD5

Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

wkdpaul

* Warnings WILL be issued for antagonizing, rude and/or condescending replies, if you can't (or won't) help, then don't reply and move on *

Please avoid accusing others that they are lying. Members are coming to this thread to ask for help regarding a specific problem and it should be assumed that they are truthful with their statement, bluntly putting that into questions will result in your reply being removed regardless of the informations it contains.

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24 minutes ago, Dzenan1111 said:

Do not think that I forgot about Your request,I am currently uploading video to Youtube :)

Okay @Bearhugger here is link to Rome 2 Total War video,I showed my in game settings in video and one more thing I am not using neither Nvidia Inspector or Nvidia Control Panel it is all in game settings,so tell me what do You think is this how this game is supposed to look ?

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A lot of jaggies and shimmering in Total War: Warhammer 2. Happens on both FXAA and 8x MSAA. Campaign map is decent, but some battle maps, especially sieges, has very visible jaggies and shimmering.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Asasinas said:

A lot of jaggies and shimmering in Total War: Warhammer 2. Happens on both FXAA and 8x MSAA. Campaign map is decent, but some battle maps, especially sieges, has very visible jaggies and shimmering.

 

 

Only noticable shimmering here is on the stairs,everything else looks pretty good and that is normal I mean You can't expect Anti Aliasing to solve every little bit of jagged lines or shimmering,there will always be some of that,no matter what.

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Most buildings also have same shimmering, it's just not visible in the video.

It's not normal, because there was no jaggies or shimmering before.

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49 minutes ago, Asasinas said:

Most buildings also have same shimmering, it's just not visible in the video.

It's not normal, because there was no jaggies or shimmering before.

AMD card? turn off Radeon sharpening.


Ryzen 3600 4.33ghz . CM Hyper 212 Turbo. MSI X470 Gaming Plus Max. Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 3200 @ 3200 CL 15 (OC). Powercolor RX 5700XT Red Dragon. FD Meshify S2. Crucial P1 M.2 1TB. Corsair Vengeance 650W 80+ Silver.

 

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On 1/6/2020 at 11:40 PM, Dzenan1111 said:

Okay @Bearhugger here is link to Rome 2 Total War video,I showed my in game settings in video and one more thing I am not using neither Nvidia Inspector or Nvidia Control Panel it is all in game settings,so tell me what do You think is this how this game is supposed to look ?

Link

 

I actually meant the benchmark function in the graphics menu. That way we can compare the same scenes on different machines

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22 hours ago, Bearhugger said:

I actually meant the benchmark function in the graphics menu. That way we can compare the same scenes on different machines

Okay I will do it over the weekend,because I am currently busy.

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Has anyone tired to contact some YouTube channels like JayTwoCents, Young Yea, Tech of Tommorow about this issues or some gaming internet sites like GamesRadar etc?

I found another video on YouTube with jagged lines in games BF5, Hell Let's Lose and Post Scriptum.

 

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I just upgraded my PSU to new one that has 8 pin motherboard pci connector,I was reading what guy above said and guess what,nothing I still have same graphics with aa on low.

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I took a hiatus from this thread out of frustration (Understandable) and It pisses me off how you guys are still looking for problems concerning cables/components/applications/settings etc..

 

This is the LAST time I’ll say this,  I’ve built NUMEROUS PCs during the past 2-3 years all with differing components,  half of them were Nvidia and the other half were AMD.  NUMEROUS monitors and TVs used,  UPS was used, Power strip was used,  even just plugging into the fucking wall gave the same shitty outcome.

 

Now if brand new computers all have the same shitty issues with all different components and gpus etc,  how in the hell could this be a cable/component/application/settings issue???  it simply couldn’t!

 

All my game consoles have these issues,  even stadia has little to no anti aliasing.

 

This has to be some sort of interference or issue between signals beings sent either to or from the monitor/tv to the PC,  electrical issue of some sort...  This is the ONLY thing that makes sense..

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On 1/10/2020 at 7:01 PM, Harsh45 said:

I took a hiatus from this thread out of frustration (Understandable) and It pisses me off how you guys are still looking for problems concerning cables/components/applications/settings etc..

 

This is the LAST time I’ll say this,  I’ve built NUMEROUS PCs during the past 2-3 years all with differing components,  half of them were Nvidia and the other half were AMD.  NUMEROUS monitors and TVs used,  UPS was used, Power strip was used,  even just plugging into the fucking wall gave the same shitty outcome.

 

Now if brand new computers all have the same shitty issues with all different components and gpus etc,  how in the hell could this be a cable/component/application/settings issue???  it simply couldn’t!

 

All my game consoles have these issues,  even stadia has little to no anti aliasing.

 

This has to be some sort of interference or issue between signals beings sent either to or from the monitor/tv to the PC,  electrical issue of some sort...  This is the ONLY thing that makes sense..

Agreed 100%. There should be no doubt about it that it's either Electricity or Interference. When it comes to testing brand new rigs i think you have done more than enough to prove that it has to do something with the place we are living at. Take my example. I was playing games without any such issue in my old house/city. As soon as i moved to this new house/city (500km away with different grid). I got this issue both in my laptop and gaming PC. This does not mean that the entire city has this issue. As i have not tested new rigs at different places in this new city so i can't comment if it's the entire city affected by it or if it is coming from the Grid or it's just this house or this transformer. But as some people were saying that they have noticed it throughout the city. This scares me. I think we should verify this if it really is affecting the entire city either by going in some gaming shops or to different houses in the same city. Also going to a different city with different power grid might give us some idea about how far this issue can spread. I remember Harsh you have tested one of the brand new gaming laptop at your shop in the same city. Wow if it really is the entire city getting affected then it's scary. Maybe it's part of the city that's affected like how power is distributed in my country i.e. different feeders feeding power to different part of the city. 

 

On 1/7/2020 at 3:19 AM, Dzenan1111 said:

Look at this all of you guys,watch this video till the end it is very important,see what happens when power is not ok,this is something similar to what You were trying to explain @Pupyds

 

Good video but I think we should not assume from this video that what he did with PCI-E adaptor is the same issue we are also facing. What we should assume from this video is how low power is affecting his PC and causing the somewhat similar issue/symptom as us. The cause behind the low power condition we are facing is either Electricity or maybe there is some other interference issue that's causing our symptoms. If it was an internal low power issue then buying new PC or better PSU should solve it. As we know buying new PC or upgrading PSU has no affect. Our low power issue is caused by some external cause not internal.

 

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So after all this i think we can assume that electricity is the problem,because this even happens on new pc,consoles. 

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On 1/12/2020 at 1:02 AM, Jokel 1 said:

So after all this i think we can assume that electricity is the problem,because this even happens on new pc,consoles. 

There is a simple way to proof that theory but still nobody has definitve evidence, somebody just buy a notebook and hook it up with a generator or solar panel then we will know.

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7 hours ago, I_dont_know200 said:

There is a simple way to proof that theory but still nobody has definitve evidence, somebody just buy a notebook and hook it up with a generator or solar panel then we will know.

As long as that laptop's battery is attached, what is the point?

 

Electricty is a part of the "analog" world, which is the world we live in. What you see in the screen is "information" and that is a part of the "digital" world, which is the world where computers operate.

 

In digital world there are two things; on or off. A signal is either valid or invalid. There is no in-between. Changes, fluctuations, waves not even massive surges in the electricty signal can create a "semi-on", or "slightly-off", or "almost-on" scenerio in digital world. If a signal is disrupted enough, it is simply ignored and considered non-existent. That is the digital behaviour.

 

Our main problem is about filtering, which is a software algorithm. Jokel 1's video in the page 113 shows it nicely. Newer cards and drivers have different adaptations and solutions to resolution filtering, propbably. Older cards had more limited resolutions and methods to make scaling filters. Newer cards have much higher resolutions and more than one scaling options (including the newest addition; integer scaling). Considering they are all done in the hardware, I think both the hardware and the software were created in an adaptable way, and at some point driver makers had to choose a lower quality solution.

 

Let me give an example here: You have an infromation of 16x16 pixels. But your output can only be 4x4. Your options are:

 

1) Discard every 1 out of 2 pixels and get a 8x8 picture. Do that again, and now you have a 4x4 output. That is not smart at all, and causes huge loss in the information.

2) Merge every 2x2 square group into one big pixel. Overall color and contrast is preserved but some small detail "may be" lost. That's traditional Supersampling. The result is soft but stable.

3) Interpolate every pixel with enough number of it's neighbours in a pattern and decide if the information of that pixel is worth of saving or can be merged with it's neighbours, or can be discarded entirely. Do that for every pixel and then build the new picture at 4x4. This is where we pronounce the names of Lanczos, Bilinear, Bicubic etc.

 

Number 1 and 2 produce guess-able results at any type of image, whether it be a complex one or a simple color transition. 1 is very low of quality, 2 is very stable but always softer than the input. They are not used today.

 

Number 3 is where a desicion mechanism comes into play. This method wants to preserve the detail no matter at which pixel it is in. İmagine a sky with a very light blue and there is very very tiny black dot on it, maybe a bird or simply a stain on the photo. It is one pixel sized in our 16x16 original image.

 

1) If number 1 was doing the scaling, it would entireley omit this detail or preserve it on the whole 2x2 block by making it bigger, which both are errors.

2) Number 2 would treat it equally with every other pixel and would average it with another 3 pixels in it's 2x2 group and our black dot would be blended with lots of light blue.

3) Depending on the filtering type and amount of the samples (and sampling pattern), a filtering algorithm would try to isolate that data, figuring that it is something different from the background, and try to keep it's color by only blending it's brightness value with it's surrounding light blue pixels.

 

Here the problem is; the best algorithms take time. Time is a luxury on a live scaling, like in a game or a video playback. So the filters and algorithms have their limitations (mostly about sampling patterns and sampling numbers), and apperantly GPU driver developers simply combine a lazy data gathering approach with a rapid deciding method. This is what we have in Jokel 1's video. That video is playing in a very smaller window than it's original internal resolution. If it was proper supersampling, it would be very soft but non-shimmering video. Instead, some "sharp" algorithm filter tries to preserve little details for a "sharper" experience. The sharper part is achieved but the video is not stable, because it tries to contain too much detail for a window of that size!

 

Now, imagine the same thing for the games. Since GPUs and CPUs are much stronger everyday, developers like to show off a little and create every tiny detail of every object. 10-15 years ago, an entire wall of a building would be a simple surface with some windows painted on it. Now the windows, glasses, windows strips, handles, even the curtains behind has their own geometry and their own high resolution textures on that wall. And the wall has more than one texture. A main one, another bump map for the imperfection of it and maybe some crack shaders.

 

Too much information at too high resolutions. When this wall is far away and takes only a small portion of your screen, these textures are needed to be shrinked down to properly fit onto already tiny geometry. Well, let's inspect the steps:

 

1) Tiny parts of the geometry, like the window strips are already rendered with errors. Because there is no error-free rendering. The smaller the object, the higher "error/all" ratio. And those window strips are tiny (just Youtube Assassin's Creed Unity).

2) Very high resolution textures are needed to be placed on top of those geometries. However, the geometry already have some errors, scling the textures have it's own aliasing, which I tried to explain above.

3) now add that, most of the deferred rendering games have their effects at different resolutions. For example, entire scene's light and shadow calculations can be made at 1/2 resolution to save performance and then the result is simply "scaled up" to fit the in-game resolution. Scaling up, has it's own filtering errors.

 

Basically, every single step has erorrs on top of errors and filters are stubbornly trying to preserve these "details", even though they are no always details, but errors.

 

Those filters can not even properly scale down a video on your screen, how can they properly create a good and stable game scene? Only TAA with random grid sampling can solve this. Thankfully, that's becoming a standard for even mobile games. As for the older games.. just try to ignore the problem or run them at very high resolutions with VSR/DSR and apply a Reshade filter with some Gaussian Blur, then sharpen them back.

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5 hours ago, CanCeralp said:

As long as that laptop's battery is attached, what is the point?

 

Electricty is a part of the "analog" world, which is the world we live in. What you see in the screen is "information" and that is a part of the "digital" world, which is the world where computers operate.

 

In digital world there are two things; on or off. A signal is either valid or invalid. There is no in-between. Changes, fluctuations, waves not even massive surges in the electricty signal can create a "semi-on", or "slightly-off", or "almost-on" scenerio in digital world. If a signal is disrupted enough, it is simply ignored and considered non-existent. That is the digital behaviour.

 

Our main problem is about filtering, which is a software algorithm. Jokel 1's video in the page 113 shows it nicely. Newer cards and drivers have different adaptations and solutions to resolution filtering, propbably. Older cards had more limited resolutions and methods to make scaling filters. Newer cards have much higher resolutions and more than one scaling options (including the newest addition; integer scaling). Considering they are all done in the hardware, I think both the hardware and the software were created in an adaptable way, and at some point driver makers had to choose a lower quality solution.

 

Let me give an example here: You have an infromation of 16x16 pixels. But your output can only be 4x4. Your options are:

 

1) Discard every 1 out of 2 pixels and get a 8x8 picture. Do that again, and now you have a 4x4 output. That is not smart at all, and causes huge loss in the information.

2) Merge every 2x2 square group into one big pixel. Overall color and contrast is preserved but some small detail "may be" lost. That's traditional Supersampling. The result is soft but stable.

3) Interpolate every pixel with enough number of it's neighbours in a pattern and decide if the information of that pixel is worth of saving or can be merged with it's neighbours, or can be discarded entirely. Do that for every pixel and then build the new picture at 4x4. This is where we pronounce the names of Lanczos, Bilinear, Bicubic etc.

 

Number 1 and 2 produce guess-able results at any type of image, whether it be a complex one or a simple color transition. 1 is very low of quality, 2 is very stable but always softer than the input. They are not used today.

 

Number 3 is where a desicion mechanism comes into play. This method wants to preserve the detail no matter at which pixel it is in. İmagine a sky with a very light blue and there is very very tiny black dot on it, maybe a bird or simply a stain on the photo. It is one pixel sized in our 16x16 original image.

 

1) If number 1 was doing the scaling, it would entireley omit this detail or preserve it on the whole 2x2 block by making it bigger, which both are errors.

2) Number 2 would treat it equally with every other pixel and would average it with another 3 pixels in it's 2x2 group and our black dot would be blended with lots of light blue.

3) Depending on the filtering type and amount of the samples (and sampling pattern), a filtering algorithm would try to isolate that data, figuring that it is something different from the background, and try to keep it's color by only blending it's brightness value with it's surrounding light blue pixels.

 

Here the problem is; the best algorithms take time. Time is a luxury on a live scaling, like in a game or a video playback. So the filters and algorithms have their limitations (mostly about sampling patterns and sampling numbers), and apperantly GPU driver developers simply combine a lazy data gathering approach with a rapid deciding method. This is what we have in Jokel 1's video. That video is playing in a very smaller window than it's original internal resolution. If it was proper supersampling, it would be very soft but non-shimmering video. Instead, some "sharp" algorithm filter tries to preserve little details for a "sharper" experience. The sharper part is achieved but the video is not stable, because it tries to contain too much detail for a window of that size!

 

Now, imagine the same thing for the games. Since GPUs and CPUs are much stronger everyday, developers like to show off a little and create every tiny detail of every object. 10-15 years ago, an entire wall of a building would be a simple surface with some windows painted on it. Now the windows, glasses, windows strips, handles, even the curtains behind has their own geometry and their own high resolution textures on that wall. And the wall has more than one texture. A main one, another bump map for the imperfection of it and maybe some crack shaders.

 

Too much information at too high resolutions. When this wall is far away and takes only a small portion of your screen, these textures are needed to be shrinked down to properly fit onto already tiny geometry. Well, let's inspect the steps:

 

1) Tiny parts of the geometry, like the window strips are already rendered with errors. Because there is no error-free rendering. The smaller the object, the higher "error/all" ratio. And those window strips are tiny (just Youtube Assassin's Creed Unity).

2) Very high resolution textures are needed to be placed on top of those geometries. However, the geometry already have some errors, scling the textures have it's own aliasing, which I tried to explain above.

3) now add that, most of the deferred rendering games have their effects at different resolutions. For example, entire scene's light and shadow calculations can be made at 1/2 resolution to save performance and then the result is simply "scaled up" to fit the in-game resolution. Scaling up, has it's own filtering errors.

 

Basically, every single step has erorrs on top of errors and filters are stubbornly trying to preserve these "details", even though they are no always details, but errors.

 

Those filters can not even properly scale down a video on your screen, how can they properly create a good and stable game scene? Only TAA with random grid sampling can solve this. Thankfully, that's becoming a standard for even mobile games. As for the older games.. just try to ignore the problem or run them at very high resolutions with VSR/DSR and apply a Reshade filter with some Gaussian Blur, then sharpen them back.

Great theory, if not for one moment. At first, when you buy a brand new computer, the graphics are excellent (usually), and after a while the graphics turn into shit. This is not a problem of the complexity of modern graphics in games.

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On 1/14/2020 at 1:23 PM, CanCeralp said:

Electricty is a part of the "analog" world, which is the world we live in. What you see in the screen is "information" and that is a part of the "digital" world, which is the world where computers operate.

Electricity/ Flow of Electric charge is like fuel for the electronic devices that they require to operate. Without this fuel they cannot run. My question is if you fill up your car with bad fuel will it run properly? Obviously you will see some performance issues. Similarly if the Electric Charge flowing through electronic devices has something wrong they will also show some symptoms depending upon what specific type of issue is present in the fuel/Electricity that you are introducing in them. If you are wondering that PSU will take care of it. Then keep in mind PSUs are designed to operate in certain bad conditions but not all. They have certain tolerance for these issues. Beyond this tolerance threshold they are vulnerable.

 

Quote

In digital world there are two things; on or off. A signal is either valid or invalid. There is no in-between. Changes, fluctuations, waves not even massive surges in the electricty signal can create a "semi-on", or "slightly-off", or "almost-on" scenerio in digital world. If a signal is disrupted enough, it is simply ignored and considered non-existent. That is the digital behaviour.

What if this digital world requires clean fuel to operate properly? What if this digital world have certain algorithms that determines if the fuel is of low quality then it will go into certain mode(Low power mode)? What if this digital world requires proper fuel/juice to let GPU render at it's full capacity? What if the fuel/juice is limited to an extent that it will allow it (GPU) to perform but not at it's maximum capacity? In short this digital world is not independent it's dependent. I think your understanding of electronics behaviour is limited with only perfect world conditions. Apply certain unheard/bad conditions to it and it will show symptoms that will be different.


If it's supposed to work as expected because it's digital. Then why some people are complaining that they get this issue in their new PC after some time of operation? Also why it never happened to me in my old house/city?


We should not consider this issue as some ordinary issue because an ordinary issue can be fixed by replacing the problematic component. Remember that people have bought new rigs not just once but several times. Considering the symptoms that we have(blur in bios logo, overall bad image quality etc) it's not a typical issue. Also the intensity of the blur changes from time to time. How can you explain that? I think you don't have this issue or experienced it ever. In that case my advice for you would be to go to someone's house who have it and see it with your own eyes. I think you do not understand the severity of this issue that it's not limited to games only. I also recommend that you should read this thread more to find out all the symptoms because we have other symptoms beside AA issues. I know at first glance people think that this thread is only about AA issues but it's not. 
 

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1 hour ago, Meeseeks said:

Electricity/ Flow of Electric charge is like fuel for the electronic devices that they require to operate. Without this fuel they cannot run. My question is if you fill up your car with bad fuel will it run properly? Obviously you will see some performance issues. Similarly if the Electric Charge flowing through electronic devices has something wrong they will also show some symptoms depending upon what specific type of issue is present in the fuel/Electricity that you are introducing in them. If you are wondering that PSU will take care of it. Then keep in mind PSUs are designed to operate in certain bad conditions but not all. They have certain tolerance for these issues. Beyond this tolerance threshold they are vulnerable.

 

What if this digital world requires clean fuel to operate properly? What if this digital world have certain algorithms that determines if the fuel is of low quality then it will go into certain mode(Low power mode)? What if this digital world requires proper fuel/juice to let GPU render at it's full capacity? What if the fuel/juice is limited to an extent that it will allow it (GPU) to perform but not at it's maximum capacity? In short this digital world is not independent it's dependent. I think your understanding of electronics behaviour is limited with only perfect world conditions. Apply certain unheard/bad conditions to it and it will show symptoms that will be different.


If it's supposed to work as expected because it's digital. Then why some people are complaining that they get this issue in their new PC after some time of operation? Also why it never happened to me in my old house/city?


We should not consider this issue as some ordinary issue because an ordinary issue can be fixed by replacing the problematic component. Remember that people have bought new rigs not just once but several times. Considering the symptoms that we have(blur in bios logo, overall bad image quality etc) it's not a typical issue. Also the intensity of the blur changes from time to time. How can you explain that? I think you don't have this issue or experienced it ever. In that case my advice for you would be to go to someone's house who have it and see it with your own eyes. I think you do not understand the severity of this issue that it's not limited to games only. I also recommend that you should read this thread more to find out all the symptoms because we have other symptoms beside AA issues. I know at first glance people think that this thread is only about AA issues but it's not. 
 

I understand your logic, and can relate to what you are saying. However, I don't know how I can transfer all the usefull knowledge I have gathered about this topic without jumping to conclusions.

 

I have a major in electricty and picked my selective courses about computer science classes, so it is relatively easy for me to "visualize" what is happening behind the scenes, and easily understant electricty flow is not related to any software work (yes, aliasing is a software thing, not related to hardware). That's also why it's equally hard for me to explain this in one or few posts because it literally took me years to learn all these. Plus, I'm no teacher.

 

Anyway, let me try: imagine an Air Conditioner. It is set to blow hot air when it measures the room temperature is below 22 Celcius. "Our world is analog" I said. That means, the room temperature can be at any endless values. 21.238576 C, or 20.867489 C, or 19.00004 C, or any value, as long as we have the devices to measure it in that sensitivity.

 

Our senser in the machine lives in a digital world. Digital means, some analog values are converted into some sharp values within a margin of measurement error. Let's assume our machine's Termometer has an error rate of 0.01 C. That means, any difference smaller than that is not /can not be seen by the device.

 

The Air Conditioner has two states; on or off, 1 or 0, true or false (pick your philosophical preference). The line between them is set to 22 Celcius. When the room temperature is above 22.01 (including the error), the machine is OFF. When it is below 21.99 (including error, again), the machine is ON. That's digital behaviour. As for 22.00 precise, it preserves current state.

 

Now imagine 10 years has passed and our machine is old now. The sensers inside get old, too. Their error rate changes. Let's assume that change is 0,1 Celicus now. 10 times bigger error rate than original. Does that chance how our machine behaves? No. The machine is always OFF above 22.1 Celcius, and always ON below 21.9 Celcius. Anything between 22,1 - 21,9 it preserves it's current state (which means stays ON if it was ON, stays OFF if it was OFF).

 

The error range has changed but the binary behaviour has not. Because, the machine is not aware of this temperature change. It reads 22,0875 C as 22 sharp. The room may be at 22,0875 C at that moment but for our machine such value is non-existent.

 

Digital means, deliberately parcelling analog world and limiting reading/writing accuracy and using "steps", instead. Two different steps are different objects, but two analog values which correspont to the same step are "digitally same". So; 22,0465 and 22,0178 are both 22.00 for our machine.

 

Now imagine the machine is not old and operates as original, however this time we blow an hair conditioner near it. That's a "disruptive signal" for the sensors, thus it reads the room temperature wrong. However the behaviour of the machine is the same. What changed is only the operating temperature.

 

The way the machine "reads, processes and evaluates the information and produces a decision" is constant and stable.

 

Now, finally imagine putting this air conditioner into a room that is at -25 Celcius. The sensers are frozen :) It doesn't cause the machine to make mistakes. It doesn't work at all, instead. That is called "operating range" and our machine is "out of operating range". This determines a machine's work range that it can "read, process and evaluate the info and produce an output".

 

In simple words: If the electricy is bad enough to disrupt a PC's working, that PC simply shuts down, or restarts. Or if it is the screen that gets bad power, it's "basic output values" can be effected. This may be brightness for example. It may be dimmer or brightness may be fluctuating. However, aliasing is a "mathematical definition", not a "basic output value".

 

Claiming a PC/console can have worse aliasing with bad power, is equal to claiming that a calculator can find

2 + 2 = (anything different than 4)

with wrong or bad batteries. It either finds 4 or won't work at all.

 

@Lucenta

 

The only difference between a fresh-from-the-box computer and a used one is the drivers and libraries (like DirectX or Vulkan). That's what I defended in my previous post. Game developers got greedy with all the freedom they had with new DirectX 10-11 and other technologies, as well as increased computational powers. And GPU driver developers had their laziness and shortcuts about filtering technologies to feed that greed.

 

I can easily say, the hardware and software level of the world was not ready for the complexity of Assassin's Creed Unity and GTA V when they were released. It's been years, and software is barely allowing that level of detail and complex scenes. NVidia wanted to show off with their newly released TXAA for those games, even that was not enough.

 

Telling a GPU to render a window handle from 100 meters as an image of 0,5 x 2 px on your screen, without proper LOD bias and proper anti aliasing techniques, is not art, it is just greed and show-off developing. And even laziness... A 2005 game would create 2 of those windows, one with full meshes and details, the other is just a box mesh with entire window's picture is textured on it. High quality one would be used when close to the screen and the other is for being displayed as far object.

 

2007-2015 era is full of those bad desicion games, as many vendors forced game makers' hands to sell more GPUs and 4K screens. 4K screen hype backfired, even today it's in 2-3% of all screens so they gave up and someone came up with TAA as open source to save all those extremely high detailed mashes and extremely high resolution and badly filtered textures.

 

Even Windows is a part of this plan. They have changed DirectX libraries multiple times, naming it bug fixes. Until DirectX 9 users had access to LOD Bias setting, they have taken it away and gave it to the game developers' mercy. Their claim for this was that they wanted to prevent cheaters to "see better" in competitive games. However, the most spread competitive game is CS:Go and it is in DirectX 9. So good luck buying that claim :)

 

@Meeseeks

That's not an ordinary problem. The reason any customer support says "everything is normal" is because they intentionally created this era. Now they won't admit it, but instead, they will wait another 10 years and next generation of gamers who play at Play Station 7 and PC with DirectX 14 will not know of the "shimmering era"..

Edited by CanCeralp
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1 hour ago, CanCeralp said:

Their claim for this was that they wanted to prevent cheaters to "see better" in competitive games. However, the most spread competitive game is CS:Go and it is in DirectX 9. So good luck buying that claim :)

Also, most competitive games will ban you for messing with LOD, you can't abuse this feature.

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@CanCeralp Again your theories (Issues in Electricity can't cause any anomalies in PC because it's digital) are only applicable to Ideal/Perfect world conditions. You are forgetting that we are living in Real world. Digital does not mean it's independent. We know for sure that for digital world to perform optimally, we need proper fuel. It is dependent. Again you are ignoring other symptoms and have your focus on only AA issues(only issues inside games). It's a very good point raised by some people here that a PC bought brand new shows these symptoms after some TIME OF USE. Also why did it NEVER happen to me in my old house? I lived in my old house/city for 5 years or so. 

 

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Claiming a PC/console can have worse aliasing with bad power, is equal to claiming that a calculator can find

2 + 2 = (anything different than 4)

with wrong or bad batteries. It either finds 4 or won't work at all.

It's not about how that calculator computes. It's about how that calculator will show symptoms of low power before shutting off completely. That's why i mentioned that we are facing a scenario where the power is low to cause our symptoms but not low enough to completely shut down.But again why am i even responding to these posts when i know that you don't even believe in all the symptoms that we have. It's not only AA issue(issues only inside games). How can anyone even explain blur in bios logo with changing intensity? 

 

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In simple words: If the electricy is bad enough to disrupt a PC's working, that PC simply shuts down, or restarts. Or if it is the screen that gets bad power, it's "basic output values" can be effected. This may be brightness for example. It may be dimmer or brightness may be fluctuating. However, aliasing is a "mathematical definition", not a "basic output value".

I disagree as does this article that a PC will shut down completely. It will work but there will be graphical downgrade:

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/signs-symptoms-computer-not-receiving-enough-power-74039.html

 

Quote

That's not an ordinary problem. The reason any customer support says "everything is normal" is because they intentionally created this era. Now they won't admit it, but instead, they will wait another 10 years and next generation of gamers who play at Play Station 7 and PC with DirectX 14 will not know of the "shimmering era"..

I know how normal AA/overall graphics looks like from my experience of playing at my old house/city for more than five years. But this is something else. 

 
Considering that you have not experienced this issue yourself it's very hard to make you believe in the symptoms. Having knowledge is not enough. Experience is important. I wish i could invite you to my house but because i am from Pakistan. Maybe it's not possible for you to come here. That's why my advice is to find someone near you who claims all these symptoms and see it with your own eyes.

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1 hour ago, Meeseeks said:

@CanCeralp Again your theories (Issues in Electricity can't cause any anomalies in PC because it's digital) are only applicable to Ideal/Perfect world conditions. You are forgetting that we are living in Real world. Digital does not mean it's independent. We know for sure that for digital world to perform optimally, we need proper fuel. It is dependent. Again you are ignoring other symptoms and have your focus on only AA issues(only issues inside games). It's a very good point raised by some people here that a PC bought brand new shows these symptoms after some TIME OF USE. Also why did it NEVER happen to me in my old house? I lived in my old house/city for 5 years or so. 

 

It's not about how that calculator computes. It's about how that calculator will show symptoms of low power before shutting off completely. That's why i mentioned that we are facing a scenario where the power is low to cause our symptoms but not low enough to completely shut down.But again why am i even responding to these posts when i know that you don't even believe in all the symptoms that we have. For you it's only AA issue(issues only inside games). How can anyone even explain blur in bios logo with changing intensity? 

 

I disagree as does this article that a PC will shut down completely. It will work but there will be graphical downgrade:

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/signs-symptoms-computer-not-receiving-enough-power-74039.html

 

I know how normal AA/overall graphics looks like from my experience of playing at my old house/city for more than five years. But this is something else. 

 
Considering that you have not experienced this issue yourself it's very hard to make you believe in the symptoms. Having knowledge is not enough. Experience is important. I wish i could invite you to my house but because i am from Pakistan. Maybe it's not possible for you to come here. That's why my advice is to find someone near you who claims all these symptoms and see it with your own eyes.

I do not.. Not believe you (insert Ben Affleck Batman face here) 

 

I live in Turkey, we have our electricity as bad as yours, if not worse. 

 

And also I do have all the bad Aliasing issues in the games and bad filtering of the videos, too.

 

Plus I do have bad BIOS screen. But I know that is about the cheap converter I use to plug my VGA screen to my RX 480's HDMi out. So there is nothing to analyse there. 

 

The reason some people don't notice it maybe because everyone's screen is different. And screens are analog devices, they get affected by the electricity quality. That can cause bad lighting, flickering, uneven contrast of the monitor thus making these symptoms more/less observable to the human eye. 

 

The topic name is "Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa", all these are mathematical and digital things, which can be explained with equations and software related things. If the topic said "flickering shadows and eye strain on high contrast areas" then I would taking electricity into account. 

 

BTW, thanks for the invitation, even though I can't come, I'm thankful for it. 

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@CanCeralpSo you do have this issue. Do you have symptom where you can see blur(bad image quality) in everything on the screen? Also if you have blur in bios screen. I never had this blur in my old house/city. When i moved to this new house/city i got it. i never changed not even single cable after moving to this new house. I plug my GPU directly with hdmi cable to my 1080p monitor. This blur(bad image quality) is affecting my eyesight. Even my laptop has it. 

 

Quote

The reason some people don't notice it maybe because everyone's screen is different. And screens are analog devices, they get affected by the electricity quality. That can cause bad lighting, flickering, uneven contrast of the monitor thus making these symptoms more/less observable to the human eye.

Yeah it is very likely that the screen itself is getting affected. But when i moved to this new house i noticed micro stutter in GTA V and some of the fans in my PC casing stopped spinning. Got rid of these stutters by removing Logitech mouse software that i was using in my old house without any such issues. This tells me that PC was also getting affected by it.

 

Yeah the topic name does not cover all symptoms. We need to make a list of all symptoms in some single post.

 

I think Turkey is near Pakistan.  

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