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WD's Big Advantage: BiCS3 64-Layer 3D NAND Coming This Year

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WD is rolling out its 3D NAND, which is the fruit of its SanDisk acquisition.

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The announcement highlights WD's new flash-powered advantage, particularly in comparison to Seagate. There is no substitute for owning a NAND fab, no matter how a vendor may spin it, and the $19 billion purchase of SanDisk, which was considerably undervalued, was a masterstroke. The ability to produce and access the NAND itself provides time-to-market, engineering and cost advantages that are almost impossible to beat in the long term. Toshiba also has both HDD and SSD production, so we expect competition to intensify between WD and Toshiba, even though the Flash Forward partnership oddly ties the companies together.

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/wd-sandisk-bics3-64-layer-3d-nand,32328.html

 

 

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20 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

Let's hope WD is the one to do it.

I'd also be fine with samsung doing it since they've been reliable with their current 3d nand SSDs

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59 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

There was talk that we'll begin to see NAND reaching 5c per gig in the next few years.  Let's hope WD is the one to do it.  Get to watch Seagate crumble too.  That's fun.

 

37 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

I'd also be fine with samsung doing it since they've been reliable with their current 3d nand SSDs

Even if it's Intel or Micron, getting the price of flash down even to 10 cents per gig would be enough to run Seagate out of town. Density is already high enough that Samsung is beating everyone in raw storage size per drive (a 16TB 2.5" drive with the same thickness as a 3.5"). That's with 48-layer 40nm VNAND too, so it's not like HAMR is going to save Seagate's bacon with 20TB drives by 2020. Samsung could make a 25TB 3.5" drive right now if it wanted to.

 

Seagate will be on its way out by the end of the decade. Whether it's Micron, WD, Intel, Samsung, or anyone else who gets us to 10 to 5 cents per GB is inconsequential. At least it's within sight now.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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I read parasitic resistance and thought of Resident Evil for some reason lol

 

 

That said this is really cool... Interesting to see how this comes into SSD's

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1 hour ago, patrickjp93 said:

-snip-

While I personally like Seagate, I completely agree with your point.  It doesn't matter who gets the price down, if any company releases an SSD in the 5-10 cent/GB range, that will crush the market.  Even if it has poor reliability, it will still force everyone else to drop prices.  Since most people are either "do no research just buy cheapest" or "I understand the limitations and how to compensate for them".  If someone released a 5c/GB SSD at 10+ TB, people would buy them out of stock even if they were only SATA2 and lasted a year.

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Ah, nice. Always glad to see storage evolving.
Once SSDs come down in price quite a bit to HDD levels, market will be quite interesting then.

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Why does everyone want to see Seagate out of business? 

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19 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Why does everyone want to see Seagate out of business? 

  1. Some people have an irrational bias against Seagate as they're (incorrectly) convinced that they produce shitty products based on the completely inaccurate and deceiving Blackblaze report. 
  2. Others want to see Seagate crash and burn for not keeping up with the times and buying an SSD company (although afaik they bough one).
  3. And the rest don't. But it's like reviews, it's the upset consumer that bitches and complains while the happy consumer says nothing. 

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5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:
  1. Some people have an irrational bias against Seagate as they're (incorrectly) convinced that they produce shitty products based on the completely inaccurate and deceiving Blackblaze report. 
  2. Others want to see Seagate crash and burn for not keeping up with the times and buying an SSD company (although afaik they bough one).
  3. And the rest don't. But it's like reviews, it's the upset consumer that bitches and complains while the happy consumer says nothing. 

I have a few 2TB and 4TB drive that has lasted me years

if you want to annoy me, then join my teamspeak server ts.benja.cc

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Having read the source article, I can't find anything on estimated prices or sizes.  They list possible chip sizes, but that doesn't give us drive sizes, per se.  Anyone find any kind of info about planned drive size or cost?

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@Captain_WD can you confirm/deny? Can you tell us when this will hit the market?

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

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1 hour ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Why does everyone want to see Seagate out of business? 

 

57 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:
  1. Some people have an irrational bias against Seagate as they're (incorrectly) convinced that they produce shitty products based on the completely inaccurate and deceiving Blackblaze report. 
  2. Others want to see Seagate crash and burn for not keeping up with the times and buying an SSD company (although afaik they bough one).
  3. And the rest don't. But it's like reviews, it's the upset consumer that bitches and complains while the happy consumer says nothing. 

 

51 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

I have a few 2TB and 4TB drive that has lasted me years

Out of the nine Seagate drives my family has owned, 8 of them broke within a year. We have working 150GB WD Raptors from the year they released. Not one WD drive out of 16 has died on us.

 

The Blackblaze report is not inaccurate or deceiving. It's just outdated.

 

Seagate should go down because it's run by a buffoon; the quality is far lower than Toshiba, Hitachi, HGST, and WD, and it has consistently lacked vision in seeing the end of spinning rust barreling towards them. Their hybrid drives have grown completely stale and are outclassed by WD's dual-drive solution, and their other drives are outclassed on performance too.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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2 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

Ah, nice. Always glad to see storage evolving.
Once SSDs come down in price quite a bit to HDD levels, market will be quite interesting then.

Funny thing is you can buy storage tape for your PC that is 2.9Gb/s and 120TB. It is also $800 or less for the reader and tape for 120TB. The reader also connects to thunder bolt

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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11 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

 

 

Out of the nine Seagate drives my family has owned, 8 of them broke within a year. We have working 150GB WD Raptors from the year they released. Not one WD drive out of 16 has died on us.

 

The Blackblaze report is not inaccurate or deceiving. It's just outdated.

 

Seagate should go down because it's run by a buffoon; the quality is far lower than Toshiba, Hitachi, HGST, and WD, and it has consistently lacked vision in seeing the end of spinning rust barreling towards them. Their hybrid drives have grown completely stale and are outclassed by WD's dual-drive solution, and their other drives are outclassed on performance too.

My seagate drive has lasted more than  a year,  and shows no sign of weakness.  In fact,  when it was new,  it frequently scored over 200MB/s in read and write. 

My parents have a seagate drive in an old athlon x2 rig that still runs fine to this day. 

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1 minute ago, Coaxialgamer said:

My seagate drive has lasted more than  a year,  and shows no sign of weakness.  In fact,  when it was new,  it frequently scored over 200MB/s in read and write. 

My parents have a seagate drive in an old athlon x2 rig that still runs fine to this day. 

Yeah but your evidence is just anecdotal whereas Patrick's is fact. Haven't you learned how he works yet?

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26 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

Funny thing is you can buy storage tape for your PC that is 2.9Gb/s and 120TB. It is also $800 or less for the reader and tape for 120TB. The reader also connects to thunder bolt

But that's sequential speed right? I'd imagine random speeds would suck though.

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28 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

Funny thing is you can buy storage tape for your PC that is 2.9Gb/s and 120TB. It is also $800 or less for the reader and tape for 120TB. The reader also connects to thunder bolt

Haha yeah, tape! Though what's the IOPS on that thing.

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Just now, Doobeedoo said:

Haha yeah, tape! Though what's the IOPS on that thing.

Yeah but for backups you can't beat it

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

Looking forward to what Allyn from PC Pero will say about this. 

Bleigh!  Ever hear of AC series? 

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I am a fan of both WD and Crucial/Micron.

These are my go to companies for Memory, HDD and SDD.

I have used Seagate with minor issues but mostly for laptops (few desktop drives as well) that already had the drives installed.

Personally I have had more drive failures from Seagate than from WD.

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5 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

 

Even if it's Intel or Micron, getting the price of flash down even to 10 cents per gig would be enough to run Seagate out of town. Density is already high enough that Samsung is beating everyone in raw storage size per drive (a 16TB 2.5" drive with the same thickness as a 3.5"). That's with 48-layer 40nm VNAND too, so it's not like HAMR is going to save Seagate's bacon with 20TB drives by 2020. Samsung could make a 25TB 3.5" drive right now if it wanted to.

 

Seagate will be on its way out by the end of the decade. Whether it's Micron, WD, Intel, Samsung, or anyone else who gets us to 10 to 5 cents per GB is inconsequential. At least it's within sight now.

Completely agree. I've said for years now that Seagate is being run into the ground as an obsolete company. This tech even seems super interesting, as it could be a really big competitor to Samsung for once. Now let's get those super high density high storage M.2 drives, and super storage SSD's at 10TB or so. My next build will have 0 HDD's. I'm done.

 

WD made a fantastic call here, even though Sandis was expensive af.

Watching Intel have competition is like watching a headless chicken trying to get out of a mine field

CPU: Intel I7 4790K@4.6 with NZXT X31 AIO; MOTHERBOARD: ASUS Z97 Maximus VII Ranger; RAM: 8 GB Kingston HyperX 1600 DDR3; GFX: ASUS R9 290 4GB; CASE: Lian Li v700wx; STORAGE: Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD; Samsung 850 500GB SSD; Various old Seagates; PSU: Corsair RM650; MONITOR: 2x 20" Dell IPS; KEYBOARD/MOUSE: Logitech K810/ MX Master; OS: Windows 10 Pro

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1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

Yeah but your evidence is just anecdotal whereas Patrick's is fact. Haven't you learned how he works yet?

I'm giving a more significant statistic. A whole ton of anecdotes strung together is the underpinning of statistical research.

 

3 minutes ago, Notional said:

Completely agree. I've said for years now that Seagate is being run into the ground as an obsolete company. This tech even seems super interesting, as it could be a really big competitor to Samsung for once. Now let's get those super high density high storage M.2 drives, and super storage SSD's at 10TB or so. My next build will have 0 HDD's. I'm done.

 

WD made a fantastic call here, even though Sandis was expensive af.

Sandisk will pay for itself. It was already highly competitive, and now it's backed by WD's money and solid leadership.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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2 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

 

 

Out of the nine Seagate drives my family has owned, 8 of them broke within a year. We have working 150GB WD Raptors from the year they released. Not one WD drive out of 16 has died on us.

 

The Blackblaze report is not inaccurate or deceiving. It's just outdated.

 

Seagate should go down because it's run by a buffoon; the quality is far lower than Toshiba, Hitachi, HGST, and WD, and it has consistently lacked vision in seeing the end of spinning rust barreling towards them. Their hybrid drives have grown completely stale and are outclassed by WD's dual-drive solution, and their other drives are outclassed on performance too.

how long ago was that

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1 hour ago, The Benjamins said:

how long ago was that

What was so long ago? The Seagate drives? 3 years ago was when the last one broke.

Samsung's 16TB drive? 1-2 months ago. Blackblaze report? I think 5 years ago.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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