PSU Tier List [OLD]

[Marinatall_Ironside]

Just now, ShadowTechXTS said:

It was an example.

It's at least useful for looking at which one's work the best.

1) I don't think it's supposed to be a set good or bad for your specific PC PSU table. More of a general "best to worst" list, doesn't mean the tier 7 PSUs are bad, just that tier 1 PSUs are a hell of a lot better.

2) That could be improved.

3)

4) People who want to make sure they're getting the best price:performance idk.

The key word here is general, it's a list to help you pick the most important part of your build so your PC won't catch fire, so I think it's useful.

 

As for the TR2/Smart series, I do agree that those should be moved if those reviews are reliable.

ffs at least someone knows the word that's always hidden in the PSU Tier List! General. Not very specific.

[MoonlightSylv]

1 minute ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Nothing you said here really addressed the arguments I made. You're basically telling me how PSU reviews which I already know. There is so much more to PSUs than ripple, voltage regulation, though. Heat sinks, layout, airflow, transient response (the most important for any gaming system), cap quality (and not country or brand, the exact series and the specs of those caps), efficiency (less waste heat can be a huge benefit), the type of fan used, the cable quality, PWR_OK signal and holdup time, protection circuitry, etc.

pls don't attack the other tier lists (especially mine, don't attack mine )

[turkey3_scratch]

STRMfrmXMN: I'm sorry if I came out like a jerk. That is not in my character and I do apologize. I'll do my best to try to discuss this without letting emotions or anger get in the way. Again, I'm sorry.

[turkey3_scratch]

If you want to avoid dangerous units Johnnylucky's lemons list does a perfect job of that.

10 minutes ago, ShadowTechXTS said:

4) People who want to make sure they're getting the best price:performance idk.

But how will they know which has the best price/performance?

[MoonlightSylv]

Just now, turkey3_scratch said:

If you want to avoid dangerous units Johnnylucky's lemons list does a perfect job of that.

But how will they know which has the best price/performance?

Cheapest tier 1 PSU of their wattage? 

[turkey3_scratch]

Just now, ShadowTechXTS said:

Cheapest tier 1 PSU of their wattage? 

That is assuming all of the tier 1 PSUs are exactly the same in quality, which is not true.

[MoonlightSylv]

1 minute ago, turkey3_scratch said:

That is assuming all of the tier 1 PSUs are exactly the same in quality, which is not true.

I know but they're close, maybe not the best price:performance but more like "cheapest PSU that is also really good"

Edited August 11, 2016 by ShadowTechXTS

[turkey3_scratch]

Just now, ShadowTechXTS said:

I know but they're close, maybe not the best price:performance but more like "cheapest PSU that is also really good"

Who says tier 2 PSUs aren't really good for that person?

[MoonlightSylv]

Just now, turkey3_scratch said:

Who says tier 2 PSUs aren't really good for that person?

Nobody, nobody said that.

[MoonlightSylv]

2 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Who says tier 2 PSUs aren't really good for that person?

Maybe they are, and if they're smart enough, they should ask the forums if they're making a good purchasing decision before buying the tier 1 PSU.

[turkey3_scratch]

7 minutes ago, ShadowTechXTS said:

I know but they're close, maybe not the best price:performance but more like "cheapest PSU that is also really good"

But that's wat I don't get - it's so much easier if they just ask in the first place. "What PSU should I buy? This is what I do with my computer. I like short cables. Power is expensive here so I want an efficient one. I play competitive FPS games and need to listen for footsteps so it needs to be quiet." Then whoever answers that can go, "let me run these parameters through my mind" and recommend a unit based on his needs.

 

The biggest question I need answered is what does it really mean if a unit is in Tier 2 instead of 3, or if a unit is in Tier 4 instead of 5? The typical answer would be that it is a better unit. But then it goes right back to my point about "better", that is, what is "good" or "bad" really depends on the context which in the power supply is used in.

 

If someone says units are based objectively. Then there should be some sort of discloser that says "units are judged on certain aspects and these aspects may not be weighed in accordance with whomever is purchasing a power supply's needs". Also, those parameters should be based on mathematics and be listed above the list. The way I see it is that it's just a list but I don't know by what parameters the units got into their tiers by. Nor do I see any form of a reference to a review of some sort.

 

And even then, a tier list cannot be wholly mathematically based. Layout of the components, for instance, cannot necessary be judged mathematically. Fan noise - it's the most overlooked aspect of a power supply. But it's not important to everybody. But personally I like a very quiet power supply. I recently went through a whole process to make my computer quieter, so something like a quiet PSU is ideal for me. Many of the units on this tier list (probably 90%) are only based off Jonnyguru reviews.

 

I advise people to look father than Jonnyguru reviews these days. Kitguru, Tomshardware, Techpowerup, HardOCP, and more review sites test more stuff than Jonnyguru. Jonnyguru.com has a limited budget which is why, but I feel like there are too many things that are overlooked. There is so much more than just ripple, vreg, fan bearing, and caps. There is a lot of stuff and I don't feel a lot of things were taken into consideration with the placement of these units (well, series I should say) on this list.

 

It seems you guys do like tier lists, so I can't stop you with that. I guess I have failed. But what I can do at least is offer some advise. It'd be nice to see units split up into actual models rather than a whole series being generalized. It'd also be nice if the parameters which units are judged by are stated at the top, and a disclaimer that states some PSUs may have been tested and judged by more parameters than another PSU because of the limitations of what a specific reviewer reviews. My most common argument is "addressing the needs of the end user" but that doesn't seem to fare well with you guys.

 

The Jonnyguru himself was planning on making a tier list. But he even got told the idea was not good. He was told that by other PSU reviewers. In the end, it turned into a data sheet. Data sheets are nice. They list factual points about power supplies without being subjective at all, or saying what is necessarily good or bad. But, if this list shall remain, at least it should be improved. Like a lot. And I feel like people won't dedicate the time to improve these tier lists.

[Marinatall_Ironside]

45 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Nothing you said here really addressed the arguments I made. You're basically telling me how PSU reviews which I already know. There is so much more to PSUs than ripple, voltage regulation, though. Heat sinks, layout, airflow, transient response (the most important for any gaming system), cap quality (and not country or brand, the exact series and the specs of those caps), efficiency (less waste heat can be a huge benefit), the type of fan used, the cable quality, PWR_OK signal and holdup time, protection circuitry, etc.

Because I had no intention to address your argument. Want me to refute your argument? I'll oblige this time around.

 

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

First off, what is good or not depends on an end user and his specific needs. Take into consideration a person who has frequent brownouts. In that case, they probably don't want a power supply that drops the PWR_OK signal at a really low voltage. But units on the list may not be tiered or weighed in accordance with that specific person's needs.

Well if brownouts are a frequent problem, then a UPS is recommended for that person so they can properly shut down their computers without risk of damage or data loss/corruption. LMG has that CAD $17,000 man-sized UPS for this reason alone for their servers, and a bunch of other UPS'es for the workstations.

 

Also it doesn't help whatsoever if a PSU is already shitty like the CoolMax V-600 and the LEPA N500. And to make a PSU Tier List based on one's needs would be extremely daunting to say the least. Again, General is the keyword in every PSU Tier List that has existed before this one.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Another example is someone who likes a quiet PSU.

Those exists, like Seasonic's 430-watt and 520-watt Platinum Fanless models and Enermax's 80 Plus Platinum-rated fanless models. If someone wants a 0db PSU all the way through, then those options are perfect. Also 80 Plus Gold, Platinum, and Titanium-rated PSU's have a "0db Fan Mode" that turns off the fan completely when the load is pretty low and it's not putting out that much heat that it makes it unbearable, which at that point, the fan kicks in.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

You may have a tier 3 unit that is quieter than a tier 2 unit, and in that case it is more ideal for that person's specific needs. But if people shout "tiers, tiers, tiers!" The person ends up with a unit that is worse for his needs.

Well at that point, that the person's fault for not researching thoroughly enough. I can't believe how many people actually exist that doesn't thoroughly research to make sure what the person is presenting is actually true. It also irks me when people say "the Internet is full of BS", well other people are full of BS, and so are books, encyclopedias, and magazines as well do contain BS. So the Internet is full of BS is weak and unsound.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

What if someone lives in a cold environment with no AC. In that case cap quality is a lot less important. Or maybe someone lives in a hot environment where OTP is really important.

Your safety is waaay more important than trying to get a hot PSU or trying to save a buck, so the argument is automatically dismissed because of that BS reason alone. No one in their right mind sould ever consider a low-quality PSU for their rig. At that point, I hope it blows up and takes your system with it, because that's the best way to learn not to get a piece of shit PSU.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Or gamers, for gaming transient response is extremely important, depending on what GPU you own and how power fluctuates. You just cannot generalize power supplies into tiers. "Quality" depends on the exact factors being taken into consideration, and those factors and their weight varies for everybody who is shopping for a power supply.

This does not exclusively apply to gamers. Everyone benefits from having a PSU with excellent transient response.

 

For all intents and purposes, again, I generally recommend that budget gamers, light content creators, and people planning on building a HTPC should get a 430-watt or a 520-watt Seasonic S12II PSU, as that series of PSU's from Seasonic are highly regarded for its bang for the buck in terms of quality. Aesthetics is never my consideration when deciding on a PSU.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

How do you tier the EVGA 450B without it having been reviewed? How do you know it is based on the same platform as the EVGA 500B? People need to stop it with stupid tiers and start getting an idea about the pros/cons of each units so they can judge them from an unbiased standpoint and make recommendations that legitimately address an end user's needs. Think I'm nuts? Look at it this way. Jonnyguru.com is filled with PSU reviewers and experts from around the world. They hate all these tier lists. The reasons I listed are only some of them why.

I would somewhat agree with @STRMfrmXMN that the PSU's are within the margin of error of one another, therefore they deserve to be placed on the same tier.

 

1 hour ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

I'm sure plenty of people hate tier lists because they don't list ripple in millivolts or what bearing the fan has, but this isn't for them. 

I'm also confident too that there are others out there that hate the PSU Tier List because they don't take the variables review experts like JohnnyGURU into consideration when they go and tier each series of PSU's. I feel the same, however that alone won't motivate me to make a proper PSU Tier List for once.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

I'm not bashing you STRMfrm but tier lists in general. They need to stop. They do not help anything at all.  People say, "well, it helps people find a power supply" - no it does not. For one thing, dozens of units are missing from it, so there may be a perfect unit within that person's budget, ideal for him, but since he doesn't see it on the list he doesn't end up buying it. Or how can people say, "Buy a Tier 1 or 2 unit". Do you honestly expect the guy to search every single unit top to bottom in those tiers on Amazon/Newegg? Plus that person may end up with an overpriced unit, let alone one that is not ideal for his or her needs.

 

I don't take kindly to ad hominem attacks, so be careful what you say. Yes the flaw exists, but the keyword is general. To gather every single model and tier them would be very time-consuming, and unfortunately, not everyone has that kind of time, let alone, would very few people actually collaborate and cooperate on building a proper PSU Tier List.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

The best way of recommending power supplies is to address that person's needs and point them to some options that are good for them. A list like this with 7 tiers especially is flawed; the more tiers, the more flaws, because it gets down to such nitty gritty details that distinguish units, and sometimes some of those details are more important to one person than the next. It's just not right. Tier lists should be gone, people should do PSU research, or ask the experts for advise.

I firmly believe you should always look towards the experts who have the proper testing equipment to actually test all aspects of the PSU, including PWR_OK, holdup times, etc. The consumer's are too ignorant IMO. Generally speaking, if I were to recommend someone a PSU, I would tell them to go for a Seasonic S12II 430 or 520 as those two units have good ripple suppression (not amazeballs though), voltages within ATX specs, and can tolerate cross-loads good enough. Mind you they also deliver the advertised wattage rating and are not overrated to all hell. So I can trust them.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

I deleted my tier list I uploaded on here a long time ago; why? Because I was such a fool then. It was idiotic that I even thought of doing that. I am such a wiser, smarter person now. And having made a tier list myself before, I know how bad they are. I have first-hand experience.

Well that's your fault for not taking those aspects into consideration. I know I will never make a PSU Tier List because there's too many variables to list out and determine what values to set to make sure they're very strict and fall within those variables to tier each series. Also I wouldn't personally list every single model because that would be way too much for readers to go through.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

And also, an entire series should not be generalized because different models within a series can be based on different platforms.

This isn't always true. The AXi series of Corsair's PSU's are made by Flextronics. The AX1500i claims to have 80 Plus Titanium while the AX760i, AX860i, and the PSU that's in my system, the AX1200i, all claim to have 80 Plus Platinum.

 

The EVGA G2, P2, and the T2 are made by Super Flower of varying models. They keyword you seem to be missing out on in PSU Tier Lists is General. That's all there is to all the PSU Tier Lists that's ever existed.

Edited August 11, 2016 by JurunceNK

[turkey3_scratch]

And this leads to the greatest philosophical question of all time: can a debate reach a conclusion? The thing is, if the experts (almost all the PSU reviewers) don't believe in tier lists, why should we?

[Marinatall_Ironside]

Just now, turkey3_scratch said:

And this leads to the greatest philosophical question of all time: can a debate reach a conclusion?

I don't think so. This argument, like any political debate, leads to nowhere. I believe review experts should takes matters into their own hands and make a proper PSU Tier List for chrissakes.

[turkey3_scratch]

7 minutes ago, JurunceNK said:

I don't think so. This argument, like any political debate, leads to nowhere. I believe review experts should takes matters into their own hands and make a proper PSU Tier List for chrissakes.

Well most reviewers don't believe any tier list can be good, even one made by them.

 

If you really want to know what irks me about all tier lists out there is I feel like whoever started those lists didn't look thoroughly through enough reviews. I feel they looked at the first review and said "yeah that's good" or "that's not very good" and stuck the entire series into a single tier. I don't feel like they actually spent as much time as they say they did. I think a lot of tier lists are too biased for Japanese caps when there are certain series of Chinese caps out there of higher quality. And I think they all have some form of brand bias.

 

I've seen this list before. I know STRMfrm didn't make the list, he just took it over recently and tweaked it a bit. But I believe it needs a lot of tweaking, tweaking, tweaking to be a good generalization. And I say that because we all know a tier list cannot help somebody find the perfect unit for them. Only their own research or individualistic help with somebody who has done their own research can result in the ideal unit for them. And when I say generalization, that means a Tier 3 unit may be better than a Tier 2 unit for somebody's purpose. I just think this list along with the one on Tomshardware really need heavy revision to stand strong as a justifiable, good generalization.

 

But I've been trying to stay out of drama and here I am again. So, can you all accept my different opinion if I accept yours? Here, I'll say it: I respect that you guys like tier lists.

[turkey3_scratch]

Again I'd just like to day that I apologize for coming off as a jerk. I was trying to make it out as if I was the enlightened one or something, as if, as you said, STRMfrm, I know more than everybody else and my opinion is right and theirs is wrong. I'm sorry for that.

 

Anyway, I take my leave. Going back on another hiatus. I do it every time I start going on Internet forums too much throughout the day. I usually also like to stay off forums once in a while and just study PSUs. There are so many to know. So many... Anyway, good luck with the list. 

[STRMfrmXMN]

10 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

 

 

50 minutes ago, JurunceNK said:

 

 

1 hour ago, ShadowTechXTS said:

 

LOL what did I miss while I was pwning noobs in karate...?

 

Anyways, I took Aniallation's list, corrected it where needed, added a ton of units with two other's help @Energycoreand @Starelementpoke and spent my entire Saturday sick from work adding new units, moving them, looking at HardOCP, JonnyGuru, Techpowerup, Guru, probably more I'm forgetting, and evaluating as many of a series as I deemed necessary generally. For example, the entire EVGA G2 line is within margins of error of eachother all at tier 1. The EVGA GS, like my personal 550W, is tier 2 until you get into the 850W and other higher-end units that manage more respectable numbers. 

 

Most of these are tiered based on hold-up time, quality of caps, vreg, fan bearing has a higher holding than you might imagine, and temp tolerance, probably others I'm forgetting yet again. I'm sure this list bothers somebody who knows more about power supplies than I do, but the general consumer is helped out with this when they say that they just need a confirmation of their PSU choice being solid or need "the cheapest PSU for X system" and I can recommend them an X tier unit, saying "get the cheapest one in X tier that is available in your country" and it's generally said and done. If they have concerns like "is it quiet?" or "I want a 5 year warranty at least" then I'll re-address with a new unit. It works out. 

 

It's not supposed to be the be-all and end-all of buying a PSU. I wouldn't just buy the EVGA T2 because it's a crazy good performer and all that and I wanted to be extra safe powering my own i3 4360 system, but I would get a guideline of where the unit I'm buying sits and whether or not I'm comfortable putting it in my system.

[Starelementpoke]

10 hours ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

 

 

LOL what did I miss while I was pwning noobs in karate...?

 

Anyways, I took Aniallation's list, corrected it where needed, added a ton of units with two other's help @Energycoreand @Starelementpoke and spent my entire Saturday sick from work adding new units, moving them, looking at HardOCP, JonnyGuru, Techpowerup, Guru, probably more I'm forgetting, and evaluating as many of a series as I deemed necessary generally. For example, the entire EVGA G2 line is within margins of error of eachother all at tier 1. The EVGA GS, like my personal 550W, is tier 2 until you get into the 850W and other higher-end units that manage more respectable numbers. 

 

Most of these are tiered based on hold-up time, quality of caps, vreg, fan bearing has a higher holding than you might imagine, and temp tolerance, probably others I'm forgetting yet again. I'm sure this list bothers somebody who knows more about power supplies than I do, but the general consumer is helped out with this when they say that they just need a confirmation of their PSU choice being solid or need "the cheapest PSU for X system" and I can recommend them an X tier unit, saying "get the cheapest one in X tier that is available in your country" and it's generally said and done. If they have concerns like "is it quiet?" or "I want a 5 year warranty at least" then I'll re-address with a new unit. It works out. 

 

It's not supposed to be the be-all and end-all of buying a PSU. I wouldn't just buy the EVGA T2 because it's a crazy good performer and all that and I wanted to be extra safe powering my own i3 4360 system, but I would get a guideline of where the unit I'm buying sits and whether or not I'm comfortable putting it in my system.

On a side note. This conversation got the thread another page. All publicity is good publicity I guess.

[Energycore]

My calling is to make people have an easier time choosing a PSU that will not cave into their components' lifetimes, and will offer features that go accordingly to their budget. Priority 1 is making sure that customers that ask around here don't get a terrible price / performance when it comes to voltage regulation. After that comes a preference for silence, efficiency, modularity etc. So no one will see me recommend "any PSU on this or that tier", I usually pick out the best price / performance at the time of asking. The PSU ranking is a resource for people making a recommendation, more so than people asking for one.

 

People have limited free time, with some people buried in work and other responsibilities. This is why I disagree with the sentiment that it's a consumer's fault for not doing research when they get a bad PSU. I want them to have an easy way around figuring out what PSUs are not terrible for their system, while remaining open to give a personalized recommendation. For that purpose I like to keep myself updated on what PSUs are the best performance / feature set for the price.

 

(An example of a unit that would fly off our radars if it wasn't so agressively priced is the Rosewill Quark 550W, a T2 Platinum Fully Modular unit for $75 - $20 rebate)

[comicsansms]

Am I missing something here? I was looking up what a Xigmatek Vector S1050 because of this thread here,
I looked up to see if there was any rebrands on 80plus.org, and it has an ECOS ID of 1601.1 meaning it is a rebrand, so I googled that ECOS ID and it came up with a Sapphire Pure PSU SFI1050AW.

When I looked at realhardtechx's PSU data base for reviews, the Xigmatek is listed as Andyson as the OEM and the Sapphire is listed as Enermax as the OEM.

[HKZeroFive]

I have one question - why is the XFX TS Gold Tier 1 while all the other power supplies based on the exact same Seasonic G platform (Seasonic G-series, Seasonic S12G, Antec EDGE, Antec TruePower Classic, Fractal Design Edison M and the XFX XTR) are Tier 2? If anything, it should be the same.

 

Otherwise, fairly decent list. I would have preferred it if the EVGA NEX Gold series with its unruly voltage regulation was placed a bit lower than the Seasonic S12II or FSP Hydro G though.

[STRMfrmXMN]

3 hours ago, Comic_Sans_MS said:

Am I missing something here? I was looking up what a Xigmatek Vector S1050 because of this thread here,
I looked up to see if there was any rebrands on 80plus.org, and it has an ECOS ID of 1601.1 meaning it is a rebrand, so I googled that ECOS ID and it came up with a Sapphire Pure PSU SFI1050AW.

When I looked at realhardtechx's PSU data base for reviews, the Xigmatek is listed as Andyson as the OEM and the Sapphire is listed as Enermax as the OEM.

TBH I got nothing...

 

3 hours ago, HKZeroFive said:

I have one question - why is the XFX TS Gold Tier 1 while all the other power supplies based on the exact same Seasonic G platform (Seasonic G-series, Seasonic S12G, Antec EDGE, Antec TruePower Classic, Fractal Design Edison M and the XFX XTR) are Tier 2? If anything, it should be the same.

 

Otherwise, fairly decent list. I would have preferred it if the EVGA NEX Gold series with its unruly voltage regulation was placed a bit lower than the Seasonic S12II or FSP Hydro G though.

I'll adjust it, thanks for pointing it out. The NEX has average voltage regulation iirc for that point there.

[Gokufighther]

On 7/22/2016 at 10:44 PM, STRMfrmXMN said:

Tier 2

• Antec - EDGE, TruePower Classic
• Azza - Platinum
• Cooler Master - V-series (fully modular), VSM-series (semi-modular), Masterwatt Maker (it's way too expensive at 450 USD but it's worthy of being tier 2)
• Corsair - Most RM variants, HX, Vengeance
• Enermax - Digifanless
• EVGA - GQ, B2, lower-wattage GS
• Fractal Design - Edison M, Tesla R2 650W/1000W
• Rosewill - Quark
• Seasonic - S12G, G-series/SSRM
• Sentey - Solid Power SS, 
• Thermaltake - Toughpower Grand, Toughpower Grand Platinum, Toughpower DPS Platinum
• XFX -  Pro XXX, XTR, TS Gold

missing the BQ series that just launched. its basically the gq series but bronze rated. either T2 or T3

[Theminecraftaddict555]

Wait ocz ZT is moved to tier 5 now?  Should I still be worried at all since I am currently using this PSU for gaming, rendering, video editing and such

[Gokufighther]

9 minutes ago, Theminecraftaddict555 said:

Wait ocz ZT is moved to tier 5 now?  Should I still be worried at all since I am currently using this PSU for gaming, rendering, video editing and such

yea, the XT series just has complete crap caps and such. i trust evga's 80+ series a lot more than xfx's XT series