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STRMfrmXMN

PSU Tier List [OLD]

This is a legacy list. It is no longer being updated.

 

The new PSU Tier List can be found here:

 

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33 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

-snip-

To address one's needs is good, but I also see an issue there too: It would only lead to one getting a fishy, cheap-ass PSU that only outputs poor-quality power with ripple all over the place and/or voltages going out of the ATX specification allowance of +/- 5%. I have a CoolMax PSU that I never use anymore after reading reviews of CoolMax units that are of poor quality.

 

Proper PSU reviews are objective, unbiased, and involves a gauntlet of brutal load tests that puts a PSU to its paces (I hope you're aware of that). Also most reviewers I've seen have electrical backgrounds, meaning they can name each and every component of a PSU and describe how it works and why it's good or bad. The tests involves ATE load testers, power draw meters that can accurately display wattage, voltage, and PFC, oscilloscopes, thermometers, and, ideally, a hot box to test hot loads and 80 Plus efficiency compliance when subjected to real-world usage.

 

You never test a PSU by hooking it up to an actual system because they are not very consistent, and the software isn't that accurate at all. You want the results to be repeatable, consistent, and accurate.

 

If you're going to do what you said to do to help out people on deciding on a PSU, you end up with people buying these instead. This is a perfect example of a shitty PSU, regardless of total capacity.

The tier list doesn't list out every single model. They list out the series of said PSU because generally, the units that belong in that series score much the same, similar to be the least.

 

For most people though, they can get away with a 430-watt to a 520-watt model that's non-modular and has 80 Plus Bronze efficiency, and I would personally reccommend Seasonic's S12II line of PSU's any day of the week, as they are cost-friendly and are of high quality for the price. They're better than the fishy, cheap-ass PSUs that are made by Chinese companies. You ever heard of the term "cost-downing" in electronics? I'll quote you the definition from JohnnyGURU:

Quote

In electronics, they use that term whenever they want to come up with a way to make something as cheaply as possible. You come up with a nice, decent power supply design first. Then, you start removing and/or replacing components with cheaper stuff as needed until the thing stops working. Then, you undo the last thing you did and sell it to the public.

Your safety and your computer's safety is waaay more important than trying to save a buck for better savings. I just hope that same CoolMax PSU actually takes out my dad's system because that's exactly why he bought a Chinese-made model; because he wanted to save a buck with no regards to electrical safety and component longevity. And my mom also bought a LEPA N500, which I can't find proper reviews of, but the story's the same.

Edited by JurunceNK

RIGZ

Spoiler

Starlight (Current): AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12-core CPU | EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Black Edition | Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra | EKWB EK-KIT P360 with Hardware Labs Black Ice SR2 Multiport 480 | 32GB (4x8GB) Dominator Platinum SE Blackout #338/500 | 480GB SATA 2.5" SSD + 3TB 5400 RPM NAS HDD + 8TB 7200 RPM NAS HDD | Corsair 900D | Corsair AX1200i | Corsair ML120 2-pack 2x + ML140 2-pack

 

The Storm (Retired): Intel Core i7-5930K | Asus ROG STRIX GeForce GTX 1080 Ti | Asus ROG RAMPAGE V EDITION 10 | EKWB EK-KIT P360 with Hardware Labs Black Ice SR2 Multiport 480 | 32GB (4x8GB) Dominator Platinum SE Blackout #338/500 | 480GB SATA 2.5" SSD + 3TB 5400 RPM NAS HDD + 8TB 7200 RPM NAS HDD | Corsair 900D | Corsair AX1200i + Black/Blue CableMod cables | Corsair ML120 2-pack 2x + NB-BlackSilentPro PL-2 x3

DESK TOIS

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Glorious Modular Mechanical Keyboard + Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 2016 | Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum RGB Mouse | 2x BenQ PD3200Q 32" 1440p IPS displays + BenQ BL3200PT 32" 1440p VA display | Mackie ProFX10v3 USB Mixer + Marantz MPM-1000 Mic | Sennheiser HD 598 SE Headphones | 2x ADAM Audio T5V 5" Powered Studio Monitors | Logitech G920 Driving Force Steering Wheel and Pedal Kit + Driving Force Shifter | Logitech C922x 720p 60FPS Webcam | Xbox One Wireless Controller

QUOTES

Spoiler

"So because they didn't give you the results you want, they're biased? You realize that makes you biased, right?" - @App4that

"Brand loyalty/fanboyism is stupid." - Unknown person on these forums

"Assuming kills" - @Moondrelor

"That's not to say that Nvidia is always better, or that AMD isn't worth owning. But the fact remains that this forum is AMD biased." - @App4that

"I'd imagine there's exceptions to this trend - but just going on mine and my acquaintances' purchase history, we've found that budget cards often require you to turn off certain features to get slick performance, even though those technologies are previous gen and should be having a negligible impact" - ace42

"2K" is not 2560 x 1440 

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4 minutes ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

The NEX B is an FSP Raider. The Arc series is based off an ATNG platform that is used in the Nexus RX 6500. This does take into account what placements in terms of performance and quality a power supply meets and the responsibility of the user is to find a power supply that fits their needs according to what they are powering. None of these have literally no factual documentation about them. Not one.

 

Yes, because they are the exception, not the rule. These are tiered based on performance and quality, not value nor quietness, nothing of the sort. This list is quite unbiased in that way. Nothing that's above tier 4 cannot handle high temperatures. That's accounted for. Quality is based on a huge number of things like hold-up time, voltage regulation, passing their rated 80 PLUS standard, etc. 

 

Because it's nearly the same as all the rest of the other units? There's the bit of difference between the 600B and 500B that puts it above the 500B but the 450B isn't some sort of unicorn, it goes where it goes. It's for the same sort of consumer as the rest of the HEC lineup that it comes from. It's going to perform and be of quality generally similar. Same goes with a Corsair RM750i vs an RM650i, neither is drastically different than the other. I'm sure plenty of people hate tier lists because they don't list ripple in millivolts or what bearing the fan has, but this isn't for them. 

 

I'm sure you don't mean to but your last paragraph comes off as really snobbish. You also can't delete posts here so I'm not sure what you're on about there. What this list does is help someone put perspective into mind when shopping for power supplies, either in choosing between a few or in realizing that the current one in their system is awful. If they end up with an overpriced unit then that's their own fault for not doing research. The way this is set up is if they are looking for something from, say tier 3, and they end up with the EVGA NEX G, well it's their own fault for not looking through other units of that tier and realizing the the Seasonic M12 is better value - a rough example but you get my point.

 

Nobody using this list is looking for nitty-gritty details about how close one unit came to failing the rated 80 PLUS efficiency or how ripple was just below "good" or whatever. They're looking for a double-check to make sure they aren't buying something dangerous or just generally awful. It also puts someone recommending a PSU into perspective when the user lists their specs. Say they have a GTX 1080 and an i7 6700. Probably best to put at least a tier 2 unit in right? You let them know to get something tier two or above on this list. If they can't afford it then that's a sign that they need to re-balance their system budget or need to save up more.

This piece right here is the snobbish "I'm a teenager and I know more than you" attitude that I'm glad to see leave people once they're about 25 as they've come to realize that there are different people in the world who see things differently or people who genuinely know more about something than they do. This list isn't hurting anyone and I get private messages or comments on these sorts of guides from people telling me it helped them. It also guides them in the right direction when they ask for help from me directly. It's done it's job well, whether it alleviates your want to help every person on a person basis down to the very letter or for me to get people headed in the right direction in not buying explosives.

Let me just ask you one question. Jonnyguru.com. Filled with PSU experts who are not teenagers but have been in the industry for decades. Why do you think they don't like tier lists?

 

Your statement that "if they are looking for something from, say tier 3, and they end up with the EVGA NEX G, well it's their own fault for not looking through other units of that tier and realizing the the Seasonic M12 is better value - a rough example but you get my point." fails to understand that there are probably options outside of that tier that are meant for that person.

 

Nobody hates tier lists because they don't list ripple in millivolts. What the heck would that have to do with anything? They don't like them because it doesn't address a person's needs and frankly very often some of the tiers units are in seem just outrageously off.

 

Your statement again about people trying to make sure their not buying something dangerous. I suppose "dangerous and awful" would be your tier 7 units. None of those seem extremely dangerous to me, especially the revised TR2 units, along with the Smart Bronze which doesn't seem dangerous.

 

I would like to have a civil conversation about this matter.

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9 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

According to your tier setup, 3 tiers, it still is too flawed. What if somebody has an extremely high power PC, yet they really need a quiet PSU because they do competitive gaming, yet a PSU on there is really noisy? Or just other things. If you live in a humid environment, gold plated connectors on the cables can be more important. Another problem is you can have a PS that is meant for an "almost high power PC" and is great quality, like the FSP Hydro X 450, yet it'd be stuck in tier 3. In the end, it doesn't address a specific person.

It was an example.

9 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

I already said why it does not work as a buying guide.

It's at least useful for looking at which one's work the best.

9 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

1) It does not address an end user's needs. A Tier 3 unit can certainly be better than a tier 2 unit. How so? Because what is "good" or "bad" is not set it stone; rather, what is "good" or "bad" relates to the context in which that power supply will be used.

2) The list itself is missing a lot of great units on the market.

3) The list has a bunch of units on it that have never even been reviewed. It is too problematic to be even close to a "buying guide".

4) Who the heck wants to go down and search every single unit within a tier on Amazon/Newegg?

1) I don't think it's supposed to be a set good or bad for your specific PC PSU table. More of a general "best to worst" list, doesn't mean the tier 7 PSUs are bad, just that tier 1 PSUs are a hell of a lot better.

2) That could be improved.

3)

4) People who want to make sure they're getting the best price:performance idk.

9 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

A tier list is just an opinion-based generalization that fails to address a more complex phenomena which is picking the right power supply for a person or comparing units and seeing how they would fare against each other for a specific user and him and his computer's needs. Just as rocket science cannot be summed up in one page, neither can the complex topic of picking a power supply, or comparing power supplies.

The key word here is general, it's a list to help you pick the most important part of your build so your PC won't catch fire, so I think it's useful.

 

As for the TR2/Smart series, I do agree that those should be moved if those reviews are reliable.


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4 minutes ago, JurunceNK said:

To address one's needs is good, but I also see an issue there too: It would only lead to one getting a fishy, cheap-ass PSU that only outputs poor-quality power with ripple all over the place and/or voltages going out of the ATX specification allowance of +/- 5%. I have a CoolMax PSU that I never use anymore after reading reviews of CoolMax units that are of poor quality.

 

Proper PSU reviews are objective, unbiased, and involves a gauntlet of brutal load tests that puts a PSU to its paces (I hope you're aware of that). Also most reviewers I've seen have electrical backgrounds, meaning they can name each and every component of a PSU and describe how it works and why it's good or bad. The tests involves ATE load testers, power draw meters that can accurately display wattage, voltage, and PFC, oscilloscopes, thermometers, and, ideally, a hot box to test hot loads and 80 Plus efficiency compliance when subjected to real-world usage.

 

You never test a PSU by hooking it up to an actual system because they are not very consistent, and the software isn't that accurate at all. You want the results to be repeatable, consistent, and accurate.

 

If you're going to do what you said to do to help out people on deciding on a PSU, you end up with people buying these instead. This is a perfect example of a shitty PSU, regardless of total capacity.

The tier list doesn't list out every single model. They list out the series of said PSU because generally, the units that belong in that series score much the same, similar to be the least.

 

For most people though, they can get away with a 430-watt to a 520-watt model that's non-modular and has 80 Plus Bronze efficiency, and I would personally reccommend Seasonic's S12II line of PSU's any day of the week, as they are cost-friendly and are of high quality for the price. They're better than the fishy, cheap-ass PSUs that are made by Chinese companies. You ever heard of the term "cost-downing" in electronics? I'll quote you the definition from JohnnyGURU:

Your safety and your computer's safety is waaay more important than trying to save a buck for better savings. I just hope that same CoolMax PSU actually takes out my dad's system because that's exactly why he bought a Chinese-made model; because he wanted to save a buck with no regards to electrical safety and component longevity. And my mom also bought a LEPA N500, which I can't find proper reviews of, but the story's the same.

Nothing you said here really addressed the arguments I made. You're basically telling me how PSU reviews which I already know. There is so much more to PSUs than ripple, voltage regulation, though. Heat sinks, layout, airflow, transient response (the most important for any gaming system), cap quality (and not country or brand, the exact series and the specs of those caps), efficiency (less waste heat can be a huge benefit), the type of fan used, the cable quality, PWR_OK signal and holdup time, protection circuitry, etc.

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Just now, ShadowTechXTS said:

It was an example.

It's at least useful for looking at which one's work the best.

1) I don't think it's supposed to be a set good or bad for your specific PC PSU table. More of a general "best to worst" list, doesn't mean the tier 7 PSUs are bad, just that tier 1 PSUs are a hell of a lot better.

2) That could be improved.

3)

4) People who want to make sure they're getting the best price:performance idk.

The key word here is general, it's a list to help you pick the most important part of your build so your PC won't catch fire, so I think it's useful.

 

As for the TR2/Smart series, I do agree that those should be moved if those reviews are reliable.

ffs at least someone knows the word that's always hidden in the PSU Tier List! General. Not very specific.


RIGZ

Spoiler

Starlight (Current): AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12-core CPU | EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Black Edition | Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra | EKWB EK-KIT P360 with Hardware Labs Black Ice SR2 Multiport 480 | 32GB (4x8GB) Dominator Platinum SE Blackout #338/500 | 480GB SATA 2.5" SSD + 3TB 5400 RPM NAS HDD + 8TB 7200 RPM NAS HDD | Corsair 900D | Corsair AX1200i | Corsair ML120 2-pack 2x + ML140 2-pack

 

The Storm (Retired): Intel Core i7-5930K | Asus ROG STRIX GeForce GTX 1080 Ti | Asus ROG RAMPAGE V EDITION 10 | EKWB EK-KIT P360 with Hardware Labs Black Ice SR2 Multiport 480 | 32GB (4x8GB) Dominator Platinum SE Blackout #338/500 | 480GB SATA 2.5" SSD + 3TB 5400 RPM NAS HDD + 8TB 7200 RPM NAS HDD | Corsair 900D | Corsair AX1200i + Black/Blue CableMod cables | Corsair ML120 2-pack 2x + NB-BlackSilentPro PL-2 x3

DESK TOIS

Spoiler

Glorious Modular Mechanical Keyboard + Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 2016 | Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum RGB Mouse | 2x BenQ PD3200Q 32" 1440p IPS displays + BenQ BL3200PT 32" 1440p VA display | Mackie ProFX10v3 USB Mixer + Marantz MPM-1000 Mic | Sennheiser HD 598 SE Headphones | 2x ADAM Audio T5V 5" Powered Studio Monitors | Logitech G920 Driving Force Steering Wheel and Pedal Kit + Driving Force Shifter | Logitech C922x 720p 60FPS Webcam | Xbox One Wireless Controller

QUOTES

Spoiler

"So because they didn't give you the results you want, they're biased? You realize that makes you biased, right?" - @App4that

"Brand loyalty/fanboyism is stupid." - Unknown person on these forums

"Assuming kills" - @Moondrelor

"That's not to say that Nvidia is always better, or that AMD isn't worth owning. But the fact remains that this forum is AMD biased." - @App4that

"I'd imagine there's exceptions to this trend - but just going on mine and my acquaintances' purchase history, we've found that budget cards often require you to turn off certain features to get slick performance, even though those technologies are previous gen and should be having a negligible impact" - ace42

"2K" is not 2560 x 1440 

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1 minute ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Nothing you said here really addressed the arguments I made. You're basically telling me how PSU reviews which I already know. There is so much more to PSUs than ripple, voltage regulation, though. Heat sinks, layout, airflow, transient response (the most important for any gaming system), cap quality (and not country or brand, the exact series and the specs of those caps), efficiency (less waste heat can be a huge benefit), the type of fan used, the cable quality, PWR_OK signal and holdup time, protection circuitry, etc.

pls don't attack the other tier lists (especially mine, don't attack mine :P )


My build | Ryzen 5 3600 | Cryorig H7 | GTX 1080 | 16GB Team Dark | ASUS STRIX B450 Gaming F | 2TB HDD 250GB SSD | EVGA GS 650 | CoolerMaster Masterbox Lite 5 |

Phone: OnePlus 6T (OOS with Magisk) | Verizon

Proud owner of an Omnibot 2000 and 5402

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If you want to avoid dangerous units Johnnylucky's lemons list does a perfect job of that.

10 minutes ago, ShadowTechXTS said:

4) People who want to make sure they're getting the best price:performance idk.

But how will they know which has the best price/performance?

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Just now, turkey3_scratch said:

If you want to avoid dangerous units Johnnylucky's lemons list does a perfect job of that.

But how will they know which has the best price/performance?

Cheapest tier 1 PSU of their wattage? 


My build | Ryzen 5 3600 | Cryorig H7 | GTX 1080 | 16GB Team Dark | ASUS STRIX B450 Gaming F | 2TB HDD 250GB SSD | EVGA GS 650 | CoolerMaster Masterbox Lite 5 |

Phone: OnePlus 6T (OOS with Magisk) | Verizon

Proud owner of an Omnibot 2000 and 5402

@Vulrax❤️

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1 minute ago, turkey3_scratch said:

That is assuming all of the tier 1 PSUs are exactly the same in quality, which is not true.

I know but they're close, maybe not the best price:performance but more like "cheapest PSU that is also really good"

Edited by ShadowTechXTS

My build | Ryzen 5 3600 | Cryorig H7 | GTX 1080 | 16GB Team Dark | ASUS STRIX B450 Gaming F | 2TB HDD 250GB SSD | EVGA GS 650 | CoolerMaster Masterbox Lite 5 |

Phone: OnePlus 6T (OOS with Magisk) | Verizon

Proud owner of an Omnibot 2000 and 5402

@Vulrax❤️

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Just now, ShadowTechXTS said:

I know but they're close, maybe not the best price:performance but more like "cheapest PSU that is also really good"

Who says tier 2 PSUs aren't really good for that person?

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Just now, turkey3_scratch said:

Who says tier 2 PSUs aren't really good for that person?

Nobody, nobody said that.


My build | Ryzen 5 3600 | Cryorig H7 | GTX 1080 | 16GB Team Dark | ASUS STRIX B450 Gaming F | 2TB HDD 250GB SSD | EVGA GS 650 | CoolerMaster Masterbox Lite 5 |

Phone: OnePlus 6T (OOS with Magisk) | Verizon

Proud owner of an Omnibot 2000 and 5402

@Vulrax❤️

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2 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Who says tier 2 PSUs aren't really good for that person?

Maybe they are, and if they're smart enough, they should ask the forums if they're making a good purchasing decision before buying the tier 1 PSU.


My build | Ryzen 5 3600 | Cryorig H7 | GTX 1080 | 16GB Team Dark | ASUS STRIX B450 Gaming F | 2TB HDD 250GB SSD | EVGA GS 650 | CoolerMaster Masterbox Lite 5 |

Phone: OnePlus 6T (OOS with Magisk) | Verizon

Proud owner of an Omnibot 2000 and 5402

@Vulrax❤️

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7 minutes ago, ShadowTechXTS said:

I know but they're close, maybe not the best price:performance but more like "cheapest PSU that is also really good"

But that's wat I don't get - it's so much easier if they just ask in the first place. "What PSU should I buy? This is what I do with my computer. I like short cables. Power is expensive here so I want an efficient one. I play competitive FPS games and need to listen for footsteps so it needs to be quiet." Then whoever answers that can go, "let me run these parameters through my mind" and recommend a unit based on his needs.

 

The biggest question I need answered is what does it really mean if a unit is in Tier 2 instead of 3, or if a unit is in Tier 4 instead of 5? The typical answer would be that it is a better unit. But then it goes right back to my point about "better", that is, what is "good" or "bad" really depends on the context which in the power supply is used in.

 

If someone says units are based objectively. Then there should be some sort of discloser that says "units are judged on certain aspects and these aspects may not be weighed in accordance with whomever is purchasing a power supply's needs". Also, those parameters should be based on mathematics and be listed above the list. The way I see it is that it's just a list but I don't know by what parameters the units got into their tiers by. Nor do I see any form of a reference to a review of some sort.

 

And even then, a tier list cannot be wholly mathematically based. Layout of the components, for instance, cannot necessary be judged mathematically. Fan noise - it's the most overlooked aspect of a power supply. But it's not important to everybody. But personally I like a very quiet power supply. I recently went through a whole process to make my computer quieter, so something like a quiet PSU is ideal for me. Many of the units on this tier list (probably 90%) are only based off Jonnyguru reviews.

 

I advise people to look father than Jonnyguru reviews these days. Kitguru, Tomshardware, Techpowerup, HardOCP, and more review sites test more stuff than Jonnyguru. Jonnyguru.com has a limited budget which is why, but I feel like there are too many things that are overlooked. There is so much more than just ripple, vreg, fan bearing, and caps. There is a lot of stuff and I don't feel a lot of things were taken into consideration with the placement of these units (well, series I should say) on this list.

 

It seems you guys do like tier lists, so I can't stop you with that. I guess I have failed. But what I can do at least is offer some advise. It'd be nice to see units split up into actual models rather than a whole series being generalized. It'd also be nice if the parameters which units are judged by are stated at the top, and a disclaimer that states some PSUs may have been tested and judged by more parameters than another PSU because of the limitations of what a specific reviewer reviews. My most common argument is "addressing the needs of the end user" but that doesn't seem to fare well with you guys.

 

The Jonnyguru himself was planning on making a tier list. But he even got told the idea was not good. He was told that by other PSU reviewers. In the end, it turned into a data sheet. Data sheets are nice. They list factual points about power supplies without being subjective at all, or saying what is necessarily good or bad. But, if this list shall remain, at least it should be improved. Like a lot. And I feel like people won't dedicate the time to improve these tier lists.

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45 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Nothing you said here really addressed the arguments I made. You're basically telling me how PSU reviews which I already know. There is so much more to PSUs than ripple, voltage regulation, though. Heat sinks, layout, airflow, transient response (the most important for any gaming system), cap quality (and not country or brand, the exact series and the specs of those caps), efficiency (less waste heat can be a huge benefit), the type of fan used, the cable quality, PWR_OK signal and holdup time, protection circuitry, etc.

Because I had no intention to address your argument. Want me to refute your argument? I'll oblige this time around.

 

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

First off, what is good or not depends on an end user and his specific needs. Take into consideration a person who has frequent brownouts. In that case, they probably don't want a power supply that drops the PWR_OK signal at a really low voltage. But units on the list may not be tiered or weighed in accordance with that specific person's needs.

Well if brownouts are a frequent problem, then a UPS is recommended for that person so they can properly shut down their computers without risk of damage or data loss/corruption. LMG has that CAD $17,000 man-sized UPS for this reason alone for their servers, and a bunch of other UPS'es for the workstations.

 

Also it doesn't help whatsoever if a PSU is already shitty like the CoolMax V-600 and the LEPA N500. And to make a PSU Tier List based on one's needs would be extremely daunting to say the least. Again, General is the keyword in every PSU Tier List that has existed before this one.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Another example is someone who likes a quiet PSU.

Those exists, like Seasonic's 430-watt and 520-watt Platinum Fanless models and Enermax's 80 Plus Platinum-rated fanless models. If someone wants a 0db PSU all the way through, then those options are perfect. Also 80 Plus Gold, Platinum, and Titanium-rated PSU's have a "0db Fan Mode" that turns off the fan completely when the load is pretty low and it's not putting out that much heat that it makes it unbearable, which at that point, the fan kicks in.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

You may have a tier 3 unit that is quieter than a tier 2 unit, and in that case it is more ideal for that person's specific needs. But if people shout "tiers, tiers, tiers!" The person ends up with a unit that is worse for his needs.

Well at that point, that the person's fault for not researching thoroughly enough. I can't believe how many people actually exist that doesn't thoroughly research to make sure what the person is presenting is actually true. It also irks me when people say "the Internet is full of BS", well other people are full of BS, and so are books, encyclopedias, and magazines as well do contain BS. So the Internet is full of BS is weak and unsound.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

What if someone lives in a cold environment with no AC. In that case cap quality is a lot less important. Or maybe someone lives in a hot environment where OTP is really important.

Your safety is waaay more important than trying to get a hot PSU or trying to save a buck, so the argument is automatically dismissed because of that BS reason alone. No one in their right mind sould ever consider a low-quality PSU for their rig. At that point, I hope it blows up and takes your system with it, because that's the best way to learn not to get a piece of shit PSU.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Or gamers, for gaming transient response is extremely important, depending on what GPU you own and how power fluctuates. You just cannot generalize power supplies into tiers. "Quality" depends on the exact factors being taken into consideration, and those factors and their weight varies for everybody who is shopping for a power supply.

This does not exclusively apply to gamers. Everyone benefits from having a PSU with excellent transient response.

 

For all intents and purposes, again, I generally recommend that budget gamers, light content creators, and people planning on building a HTPC should get a 430-watt or a 520-watt Seasonic S12II PSU, as that series of PSU's from Seasonic are highly regarded for its bang for the buck in terms of quality. Aesthetics is never my consideration when deciding on a PSU.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

How do you tier the EVGA 450B without it having been reviewed? How do you know it is based on the same platform as the EVGA 500B? People need to stop it with stupid tiers and start getting an idea about the pros/cons of each units so they can judge them from an unbiased standpoint and make recommendations that legitimately address an end user's needs. Think I'm nuts? Look at it this way. Jonnyguru.com is filled with PSU reviewers and experts from around the world. They hate all these tier lists. The reasons I listed are only some of them why.

I would somewhat agree with @STRMfrmXMN that the PSU's are within the margin of error of one another, therefore they deserve to be placed on the same tier.

 

1 hour ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

I'm sure plenty of people hate tier lists because they don't list ripple in millivolts or what bearing the fan has, but this isn't for them. 

I'm also confident too that there are others out there that hate the PSU Tier List because they don't take the variables review experts like JohnnyGURU into consideration when they go and tier each series of PSU's. I feel the same, however that alone won't motivate me to make a proper PSU Tier List for once.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

I'm not bashing you STRMfrm but tier lists in general. They need to stop. They do not help anything at all.  People say, "well, it helps people find a power supply" - no it does not. For one thing, dozens of units are missing from it, so there may be a perfect unit within that person's budget, ideal for him, but since he doesn't see it on the list he doesn't end up buying it. Or how can people say, "Buy a Tier 1 or 2 unit". Do you honestly expect the guy to search every single unit top to bottom in those tiers on Amazon/Newegg? Plus that person may end up with an overpriced unit, let alone one that is not ideal for his or her needs.

 

I don't take kindly to ad hominem attacks, so be careful what you say. Yes the flaw exists, but the keyword is general. To gather every single model and tier them would be very time-consuming, and unfortunately, not everyone has that kind of time, let alone, would very few people actually collaborate and cooperate on building a proper PSU Tier List.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

The best way of recommending power supplies is to address that person's needs and point them to some options that are good for them. A list like this with 7 tiers especially is flawed; the more tiers, the more flaws, because it gets down to such nitty gritty details that distinguish units, and sometimes some of those details are more important to one person than the next. It's just not right. Tier lists should be gone, people should do PSU research, or ask the experts for advise.

I firmly believe you should always look towards the experts who have the proper testing equipment to actually test all aspects of the PSU, including PWR_OK, holdup times, etc. The consumer's are too ignorant IMO. Generally speaking, if I were to recommend someone a PSU, I would tell them to go for a Seasonic S12II 430 or 520 as those two units have good ripple suppression (not amazeballs though), voltages within ATX specs, and can tolerate cross-loads good enough. Mind you they also deliver the advertised wattage rating and are not overrated to all hell. So I can trust them.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

I deleted my tier list I uploaded on here a long time ago; why? Because I was such a fool then. It was idiotic that I even thought of doing that. I am such a wiser, smarter person now. And having made a tier list myself before, I know how bad they are. I have first-hand experience.

Well that's your fault for not taking those aspects into consideration. I know I will never make a PSU Tier List because there's too many variables to list out and determine what values to set to make sure they're very strict and fall within those variables to tier each series. Also I wouldn't personally list every single model because that would be way too much for readers to go through.

 

1 hour ago, turkey3_scratch said:

And also, an entire series should not be generalized because different models within a series can be based on different platforms.

This isn't always true. The AXi series of Corsair's PSU's are made by Flextronics. The AX1500i claims to have 80 Plus Titanium while the AX760i, AX860i, and the PSU that's in my system, the AX1200i, all claim to have 80 Plus Platinum.

 

The EVGA G2, P2, and the T2 are made by Super Flower of varying models. They keyword you seem to be missing out on in PSU Tier Lists is General. That's all there is to all the PSU Tier Lists that's ever existed.

Edited by JurunceNK

RIGZ

Spoiler

Starlight (Current): AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12-core CPU | EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Black Edition | Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra | EKWB EK-KIT P360 with Hardware Labs Black Ice SR2 Multiport 480 | 32GB (4x8GB) Dominator Platinum SE Blackout #338/500 | 480GB SATA 2.5" SSD + 3TB 5400 RPM NAS HDD + 8TB 7200 RPM NAS HDD | Corsair 900D | Corsair AX1200i | Corsair ML120 2-pack 2x + ML140 2-pack

 

The Storm (Retired): Intel Core i7-5930K | Asus ROG STRIX GeForce GTX 1080 Ti | Asus ROG RAMPAGE V EDITION 10 | EKWB EK-KIT P360 with Hardware Labs Black Ice SR2 Multiport 480 | 32GB (4x8GB) Dominator Platinum SE Blackout #338/500 | 480GB SATA 2.5" SSD + 3TB 5400 RPM NAS HDD + 8TB 7200 RPM NAS HDD | Corsair 900D | Corsair AX1200i + Black/Blue CableMod cables | Corsair ML120 2-pack 2x + NB-BlackSilentPro PL-2 x3

DESK TOIS

Spoiler

Glorious Modular Mechanical Keyboard + Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 2016 | Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum RGB Mouse | 2x BenQ PD3200Q 32" 1440p IPS displays + BenQ BL3200PT 32" 1440p VA display | Mackie ProFX10v3 USB Mixer + Marantz MPM-1000 Mic | Sennheiser HD 598 SE Headphones | 2x ADAM Audio T5V 5" Powered Studio Monitors | Logitech G920 Driving Force Steering Wheel and Pedal Kit + Driving Force Shifter | Logitech C922x 720p 60FPS Webcam | Xbox One Wireless Controller

QUOTES

Spoiler

"So because they didn't give you the results you want, they're biased? You realize that makes you biased, right?" - @App4that

"Brand loyalty/fanboyism is stupid." - Unknown person on these forums

"Assuming kills" - @Moondrelor

"That's not to say that Nvidia is always better, or that AMD isn't worth owning. But the fact remains that this forum is AMD biased." - @App4that

"I'd imagine there's exceptions to this trend - but just going on mine and my acquaintances' purchase history, we've found that budget cards often require you to turn off certain features to get slick performance, even though those technologies are previous gen and should be having a negligible impact" - ace42

"2K" is not 2560 x 1440 

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And this leads to the greatest philosophical question of all time: can a debate reach a conclusion? The thing is, if the experts (almost all the PSU reviewers) don't believe in tier lists, why should we?

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Just now, turkey3_scratch said:

And this leads to the greatest philosophical question of all time: can a debate reach a conclusion?

I don't think so. This argument, like any political debate, leads to nowhere. I believe review experts should takes matters into their own hands and make a proper PSU Tier List for chrissakes.


RIGZ

Spoiler

Starlight (Current): AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12-core CPU | EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Black Edition | Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra | EKWB EK-KIT P360 with Hardware Labs Black Ice SR2 Multiport 480 | 32GB (4x8GB) Dominator Platinum SE Blackout #338/500 | 480GB SATA 2.5" SSD + 3TB 5400 RPM NAS HDD + 8TB 7200 RPM NAS HDD | Corsair 900D | Corsair AX1200i | Corsair ML120 2-pack 2x + ML140 2-pack

 

The Storm (Retired): Intel Core i7-5930K | Asus ROG STRIX GeForce GTX 1080 Ti | Asus ROG RAMPAGE V EDITION 10 | EKWB EK-KIT P360 with Hardware Labs Black Ice SR2 Multiport 480 | 32GB (4x8GB) Dominator Platinum SE Blackout #338/500 | 480GB SATA 2.5" SSD + 3TB 5400 RPM NAS HDD + 8TB 7200 RPM NAS HDD | Corsair 900D | Corsair AX1200i + Black/Blue CableMod cables | Corsair ML120 2-pack 2x + NB-BlackSilentPro PL-2 x3

DESK TOIS

Spoiler

Glorious Modular Mechanical Keyboard + Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 2016 | Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum RGB Mouse | 2x BenQ PD3200Q 32" 1440p IPS displays + BenQ BL3200PT 32" 1440p VA display | Mackie ProFX10v3 USB Mixer + Marantz MPM-1000 Mic | Sennheiser HD 598 SE Headphones | 2x ADAM Audio T5V 5" Powered Studio Monitors | Logitech G920 Driving Force Steering Wheel and Pedal Kit + Driving Force Shifter | Logitech C922x 720p 60FPS Webcam | Xbox One Wireless Controller

QUOTES

Spoiler

"So because they didn't give you the results you want, they're biased? You realize that makes you biased, right?" - @App4that

"Brand loyalty/fanboyism is stupid." - Unknown person on these forums

"Assuming kills" - @Moondrelor

"That's not to say that Nvidia is always better, or that AMD isn't worth owning. But the fact remains that this forum is AMD biased." - @App4that

"I'd imagine there's exceptions to this trend - but just going on mine and my acquaintances' purchase history, we've found that budget cards often require you to turn off certain features to get slick performance, even though those technologies are previous gen and should be having a negligible impact" - ace42

"2K" is not 2560 x 1440 

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7 minutes ago, JurunceNK said:

I don't think so. This argument, like any political debate, leads to nowhere. I believe review experts should takes matters into their own hands and make a proper PSU Tier List for chrissakes.

Well most reviewers don't believe any tier list can be good, even one made by them.

 

If you really want to know what irks me about all tier lists out there is I feel like whoever started those lists didn't look thoroughly through enough reviews. I feel they looked at the first review and said "yeah that's good" or "that's not very good" and stuck the entire series into a single tier. I don't feel like they actually spent as much time as they say they did. I think a lot of tier lists are too biased for Japanese caps when there are certain series of Chinese caps out there of higher quality. And I think they all have some form of brand bias.

 

I've seen this list before. I know STRMfrm didn't make the list, he just took it over recently and tweaked it a bit. But I believe it needs a lot of tweaking, tweaking, tweaking to be a good generalization. And I say that because we all know a tier list cannot help somebody find the perfect unit for them. Only their own research or individualistic help with somebody who has done their own research can result in the ideal unit for them. And when I say generalization, that means a Tier 3 unit may be better than a Tier 2 unit for somebody's purpose. I just think this list along with the one on Tomshardware really need heavy revision to stand strong as a justifiable, good generalization.

 

But I've been trying to stay out of drama and here I am again. So, can you all accept my different opinion if I accept yours? Here, I'll say it: I respect that you guys like tier lists.

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Again I'd just like to day that I apologize for coming off as a jerk. I was trying to make it out as if I was the enlightened one or something, as if, as you said, STRMfrm, I know more than everybody else and my opinion is right and theirs is wrong. I'm sorry for that.

 

Anyway, I take my leave. Going back on another hiatus. I do it every time I start going on Internet forums too much throughout the day. I usually also like to stay off forums once in a while and just study PSUs. There are so many to know. So many... Anyway, good luck with the list. ^_^

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Posted · Original PosterOP
10 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

 

 

50 minutes ago, JurunceNK said:

 

 

1 hour ago, ShadowTechXTS said:

 

LOL what did I miss while I was pwning noobs in karate...? xD

 

Anyways, I took Aniallation's list, corrected it where needed, added a ton of units with two other's help @Energycoreand @Starelementpoke and spent my entire Saturday sick from work adding new units, moving them, looking at HardOCP, JonnyGuru, Techpowerup, Guru, probably more I'm forgetting, and evaluating as many of a series as I deemed necessary generally. For example, the entire EVGA G2 line is within margins of error of eachother all at tier 1. The EVGA GS, like my personal 550W, is tier 2 until you get into the 850W and other higher-end units that manage more respectable numbers. 

 

Most of these are tiered based on hold-up time, quality of caps, vreg, fan bearing has a higher holding than you might imagine, and temp tolerance, probably others I'm forgetting yet again. I'm sure this list bothers somebody who knows more about power supplies than I do, but the general consumer is helped out with this when they say that they just need a confirmation of their PSU choice being solid or need "the cheapest PSU for X system" and I can recommend them an X tier unit, saying "get the cheapest one in X tier that is available in your country" and it's generally said and done. If they have concerns like "is it quiet?" or "I want a 5 year warranty at least" then I'll re-address with a new unit. It works out. 

 

It's not supposed to be the be-all and end-all of buying a PSU. I wouldn't just buy the EVGA T2 because it's a crazy good performer and all that and I wanted to be extra safe powering my own i3 4360 system, but I would get a guideline of where the unit I'm buying sits and whether or not I'm comfortable putting it in my system.


|PSU Tier List /80 Plus Efficiency| PSU stuff if you need it. 

My system: PCPartPicker || For Corsair support tag @Corsair Josephor @Corsair Nick || My 5MT Legacy GT Wagon ||

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10 hours ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

 

 

LOL what did I miss while I was pwning noobs in karate...? xD

 

Anyways, I took Aniallation's list, corrected it where needed, added a ton of units with two other's help @Energycoreand @Starelementpoke and spent my entire Saturday sick from work adding new units, moving them, looking at HardOCP, JonnyGuru, Techpowerup, Guru, probably more I'm forgetting, and evaluating as many of a series as I deemed necessary generally. For example, the entire EVGA G2 line is within margins of error of eachother all at tier 1. The EVGA GS, like my personal 550W, is tier 2 until you get into the 850W and other higher-end units that manage more respectable numbers. 

 

Most of these are tiered based on hold-up time, quality of caps, vreg, fan bearing has a higher holding than you might imagine, and temp tolerance, probably others I'm forgetting yet again. I'm sure this list bothers somebody who knows more about power supplies than I do, but the general consumer is helped out with this when they say that they just need a confirmation of their PSU choice being solid or need "the cheapest PSU for X system" and I can recommend them an X tier unit, saying "get the cheapest one in X tier that is available in your country" and it's generally said and done. If they have concerns like "is it quiet?" or "I want a 5 year warranty at least" then I'll re-address with a new unit. It works out. 

 

It's not supposed to be the be-all and end-all of buying a PSU. I wouldn't just buy the EVGA T2 because it's a crazy good performer and all that and I wanted to be extra safe powering my own i3 4360 system, but I would get a guideline of where the unit I'm buying sits and whether or not I'm comfortable putting it in my system.

On a side note. This conversation got the thread another page. All publicity is good publicity I guess.

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My calling is to make people have an easier time choosing a PSU that will not cave into their components' lifetimes, and will offer features that go accordingly to their budget. Priority 1 is making sure that customers that ask around here don't get a terrible price / performance when it comes to voltage regulation. After that comes a preference for silence, efficiency, modularity etc. So no one will see me recommend "any PSU on this or that tier", I usually pick out the best price / performance at the time of asking. The PSU ranking is a resource for people making a recommendation, more so than people asking for one.

 

People have limited free time, with some people buried in work and other responsibilities. This is why I disagree with the sentiment that it's a consumer's fault for not doing research when they get a bad PSU. I want them to have an easy way around figuring out what PSUs are not terrible for their system, while remaining open to give a personalized recommendation. For that purpose I like to keep myself updated on what PSUs are the best performance / feature set for the price.

 

(An example of a unit that would fly off our radars if it wasn't so agressively priced is the Rosewill Quark 550W, a T2 Platinum Fully Modular unit for $75 - $20 rebate)


We have a NEW and GLORIOUSER PSU Tier List Now.

 

You can check out the old one that gave joy to so many across the land here

 

Computer having a hard time powering on? Troubleshoot it with this guide. (Currently looking for suggestions to update it into the context of <current year> and make it its own thread)

Computer Specs:

Spoiler

 Mathresolvermajig: Intel Xeon E3 1240 (Sandy Bridge i7 equivalent)
Framepainting-inator: MSI RX 480 Gaming X 8GB Died in a horrible mining accident. Currently looking for used Vega 56s!

Attachcorethingy: GA-H61M-S2V-B3

Infoholdstick: Corsair 2x4GB DDR3 1333 CAS 9

Computerarmor: CM Elite 360 (Moddded to all hell by now)

Rememberdoogle: 120GB Trion 150 + 1TB WD RE+ + 240GB SSD Plus

AdditionalPylons: Corsair CX450M

Letterpad: Rosewill Apollo 9100 (Cherry MX Red)

Buttonrodent: EVGA Torq X3

Auralnterface: @Den-Fi が2年前にくれたヘッドフォン

Liquidrectangles: AOC G2260VWQ6 (Freesync 75Hz), Samsung SMB2030N (1600x900 VGA)

Brother's Computer:

Spoiler

Mathresolvermajig: Intel i3-2100 (carry over from my old build)
Framepainting-inator: GTX 650 Ti

Attachcorethingy: Intel Z68 (don't know anything else, got it from ebay for like $40)

Infoholdstick: Corsair 2x2GB 1333MHz C9

Computerarmor: Ashamed to say

Rememberdoogle: 120GB SP550 + 500GB 2.5" from a laptop

AdditionalPylons: Antec Basiq BP350 (not as loud as @STRMfrmXMN says it is) (actually pretty loud for my standards)

Letterpad: Logitech MK120 bundle

Buttonrodent: See above

Auralnterface: Hah! You wish

Liquidrectangles: Samsung 1600x900 + LG 1440x900

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Am I missing something here? I was looking up what a Xigmatek Vector S1050 because of this thread here,
I looked up to see if there was any rebrands on 80plus.org, and it has an ECOS ID of 1601.1 meaning it is a rebrand, so I googled that ECOS ID and it came up with a Sapphire Pure PSU SFI1050AW.

When I looked at realhardtechx's PSU data base for reviews, the Xigmatek is listed as Andyson as the OEM and the Sapphire is listed as Enermax as the OEM.

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I have one question - why is the XFX TS Gold Tier 1 while all the other power supplies based on the exact same Seasonic G platform (Seasonic G-series, Seasonic S12G, Antec EDGE, Antec TruePower Classic, Fractal Design Edison M and the XFX XTR) are Tier 2? If anything, it should be the same.

 

Otherwise, fairly decent list. I would have preferred it if the EVGA NEX Gold series with its unruly voltage regulation was placed a bit lower than the Seasonic S12II or FSP Hydro G though.


'Fanboyism is stupid' - someone on this forum.

Be nice to each other boys and girls. And don't cheap out on a power supply.

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CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K - 4.5 GHz | Motherboard: ASUS MAXIMUS VII HERO | RAM: 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR3 | SSD: Samsung 850 EVO - 500GB | GPU: MSI GTX 980 Ti Gaming 6GB | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G2 | Case: NZXT Phantom 530 | Cooling: CRYORIG R1 Ultimate | Monitor: ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q | Peripherals: Corsair Vengeance K70 and Razer DeathAdder

 

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