PSU Tier List [OLD]

[Stefan Payne]

22 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

A properly implemented controller for semi-fanless is perfectly acceptable.  And the heat produced by a PSU at low loads, even a Bronze rated PSU, is so insignificant that there's no risk of damage to the PSU.

See, that is the Problem.

You have to invest a ton of R&D into getting it right. 

You as a big company have the resources and personell to probably get it right but even you had some "oopsies" with Semi Fanless (Chikoney 750/850W).

And there are really some really awful implementations - CWT SFX you probably know...

22 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

I do agree that a low RPM fan (say 400~500 RPM start) is nearly silent and a good solution, but you wouldn't want to use a DBB fan at low RPM (click, click, click) and the low noise hall sensor ICs are quite a bit more expensive than what's typically used.  Furthermore, the fan's motor would need fewer windings to allow it to spin at lower voltage and that causes noise similar to coil whine at those lower RPMs.  Using a PWM fan would solve this, but that's yet another cost adder.

2BB Fans still exist in PSU?? 

I mean in SFX and TFX PSU with 80-92mm and only ~15mm high it might make sense, because higher temperature enviroment and higher RPM...

Yeah, good quality fans are not that cheap, though you can find some nice fans in pretty low cost PSU even at lower RPM - made by XHY, wich was kinda surprising.

 

22 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

At the end of the day, it's all about cost.  Sure, an FDB PWM fan with a low noise hall sensor IC controlled by an MCU with a starting RPM of 400 would be ideal... but Joe Enduser isn't going to want to pay for that. 

Naa, good old voltage regulation is enough, some manufacturers do indeed use some high quality fans with a regular voltage regulation.

The trick is, in some cases, to start the fan with a high voltage pulse and then regulate it down (something CWT does with the SFX version, starts with 12V Pulse and then stops the fan for no reason....)

[ZidaneTribal]

On 3/4/2019 at 6:43 PM, Stefan Payne said:

oO

Did you get the M12II-620 EVO Bronze recently or did you have it for like 5 years??

Its on the Market for almost 10 years...

 

Its because it regulates 5V and 12V together, so if you load one rail and not the other, the voltages will go out of spec. 

And they lack protection -> if you slightly short your unit, it might not switch off and potentially cause a cable fire.

It doesn't have any OCP on any rail.
Even overheating protection is not there.

Undervoltage on 12V is also not there.

Bitfenix Whisper M is a good option, Cougar GX-F if they are still active in your region (outside of Europe).

If you want it cheaper, the new Silverstone Strider Gold (ST55F-GS) is also a nice option if you see it. It started shipping like last week or so. Though its on the louder side at lower loads.

 

Straight Power 11/550W is also an option.

 

 

Hey, I just found secondhand PSU that cost $104, Corsair HX 850W.

He purchased it Sep, 2017. The price is equal to Corsair RMX 550w. What do you think about that?

 

Spoiler

 

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

The trick is, in some cases, to start the fan with a high voltage pulse and then regulate it down (something CWT does with the SFX version, starts with 12V Pulse and then stops the fan for no reason....)

For 400~500 RPM, you can only deliver < 4.5V.  I don't many fans that will keep spinning if you start them at a higher voltages and then drop them down to <4.5V.  If you know of such a fan, I'd like to know what it is.    Most of the fans I know of that do spin at < 4.5V start at 4.5V and have motor noise.

 

[Settlerteo]

3 hours ago, ZidaneTribal said:

Hey, I just found secondhand PSU that cost $104, Corsair HX 850W.

He purchased it Sep, 2017. The price is equal to Corsair RMX 550w. What do you think about that?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Get the new RMX. You don't know the way he treated the PSU and it's not something like a GPU which could be more resistant in stress/bad scenarios. Also it's the heart of your system.

[uberas]

Hello, can somebody advice me which Tier should be Corsair TX650W CMPSU-650TX classified as? Unfortunately, couldn't get any good deals in UK and got this one used (from 2010) for $26 today but I'm a bit curious if that's a good choice. As far as I've seen it has some sea sonic components and Japanese condensators. Gonna be used with ryzen 3 1200 and GTX1060, not really stressing out

[Guest]

1 hour ago, uberas said:

Hello, can somebody advice me which Tier should be Corsair TX650W CMPSU-650TX classified as? Unfortunately, couldn't get any good deals in UK and got this one used (from 2010) for $26 today but I'm a bit curious if that's a good choice. As far as I've seen it has some sea sonic components and Japanese condensators. Gonna be used with ryzen 3 1200 and GTX1060, not really stressing out

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article813-page1.html

 

So old, probably not worth even $26.  

[uberas]

44 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article813-page1.html

 

So old, probably not worth even $26.  

Seems solid from that review, well I have to see. $26 seems a bad price in US or Canada where you got amazing deals from newegg, but In UK the cheapest good PSU starts from around $60.

[Stefan Payne]

16 minutes ago, uberas said:

Seems solid from that review,

10 years ago or so.

But we're talking about 2019, not 2009!

Why would you want to ruin your hardware with an ancient PSU?!

 

16 minutes ago, uberas said:

well I have to see. $26 seems a bad price in US or Canada where you got amazing deals from newegg, but In UK the cheapest good PSU starts from around $60.

You are wrong!

Here something for around 40€ or 37 Pounds:

https://skinflint.co.uk/be-quiet-system-power-9-400w-atx-2-4-bn245-a1765560.html?hloc=uk

 

40 Pounds:

https://skinflint.co.uk/xilence-performance-a-series-530w-atx-2-4-xp530r8-xn061-a1380623.html?hloc=uk

But hey, rather ruin your shit with old electronics waste than get a new PSU!

 

Especially if you don't have much money, its a bad idea to save on the PSU as that will kill your stuff!

[Stefan Payne]

21 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

For 400~500 RPM, you can only deliver < 4.5V.  I don't many fans that will keep spinning if you start them at a higher voltages and then drop them down to <4.5V.  If you know of such a fan, I'd like to know what it is.    Most of the fans I know of that do spin at < 4.5V start at 4.5V and have motor noise.

 

I don't measure the Fan Voltage at lower loads with recent reviews because of certain reasons but when I did do it, the Seasonic G-Series had 2,6V or so on the fan. Might take a look at that again

They used ADDA and Jamicon fans at the time and no overly annoying motor noise like the Hong Hua in my CWT GPS one wich is brought down to 350rpm with the 750W version.

 

I also have a Xilence Performance X wich does not have annoying Motor/Bearing noise and also rotates the fan at 350rpm (750W is what I got). 

 

And, as you know, be quiet usually goes under 4,5V...

 

PS: What I didn't get was load related fan controls.

Ie a fan controller that "automatically" increases the voltage when the load is low (=you replaced the Original Fan with another one and the new one, with lower loads runs faster than the old one)...

The Huntkey X7-1200W does that for example...

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

I don't measure the Fan Voltage at lower loads with recent reviews because of certain reasons but when I did do it, the Seasonic G-Series had 2,6V or so on the fan. Might take a look at that again

They used ADDA and Jamicon fans at the time and no overly annoying motor noise like the Hong Hua in my CWT GPS one wich is brought down to 350rpm with the 750W version.

 

I also have a Xilence Performance X wich does not have annoying Motor/Bearing noise and also rotates the fan at 350rpm (750W is what I got). 

 

And, as you know, be quiet usually goes under 4,5V...

 

PS: What I didn't get was load related fan controls.

Ie a fan controller that "automatically" increases the voltage when the load is low (=you replaced the Original Fan with another one and the new one, with lower loads runs faster than the old one)...

The Huntkey X7-1200W does that for example...

Voltage does not directly correspond with fan speed.  The motor windings can differ between different fans and create different results.

[Stefan Payne]

Just now, jonnyGURU said:

Voltage does not directly correspond with fan speed.  The motor windings can differ between different fans and create different results.

If that is in regards to the Huntkey, IIRC I measured the Voltage and the voltage with the Original Fan was reasonably low (somewhar what you'd expect. Its a 0,6A LED one but I don't really remember but I think it was somewhere around 5V or so) the replacement from a different PSU the voltage was higher than with the original fan and thus the fan speed was higher.

 

IIRC it was something rediculously high like 7-9V or so.

[ZidaneTribal]

19 hours ago, Settlerteo said:

Get the new RMX. You don't know the way he treated the PSU and it's not something like a GPU which could be more resistant in stress/bad scenarios. Also it's the heart of your system.

i see, okay. i'll get brand new RMX 550w.

[uberas]

9 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

10 years ago or so.

But we're talking about 2019, not 2009!

Why would you want to ruin your hardware with an ancient PSU?!

 

You are wrong!

Here something for around 40€ or 37 Pounds:

https://skinflint.co.uk/be-quiet-system-power-9-400w-atx-2-4-bn245-a1765560.html?hloc=uk

 

40 Pounds:

https://skinflint.co.uk/xilence-performance-a-series-530w-atx-2-4-xp530r8-xn061-a1380623.html?hloc=uk

But hey, rather ruin your shit with old electronics waste than get a new PSU!

 

Especially if you don't have much money, its a bad idea to save on the PSU as that will kill your stuff!

Well, ones you listed are from Germany and before all fees that probably will be applied plus 400W only and I’m planning to get GTX1070, every PSU is most efficient about 50% load. IMHO better to have some headroom 

[comicsansms]

1 hour ago, uberas said:

Well, ones you listed are from Germany and before all fees that probably will be applied 

It's a price comparing website, and not all the stores they had listed are German

1 hour ago, uberas said:

plus 400W only and I’m planning to get GTX1070

400W is EASILY enough for a build with an overclocked GTX 1070 and an i7 or Ryzen 7.

1 hour ago, uberas said:

every PSU is most efficient about 50% load.

That's bullshit. Some are most efficient at 35%, while others are 80%. Also, it's a matter of 2% or so - better off getting a more efficient PSU, than a higher wattage supply.

 

Also, even if the PSU is most efficient at 50% load, for most of the time you use your computer, it's not anywhere near that taxing.

1 hour ago, uberas said:

IMHO better to have some headroom 

You can think that, doesn't mean it actually makes sense.

[Stefan Payne]

5 hours ago, uberas said:

plus 400W only and I’m planning to get GTX1070,

Yes and my (not overclocked) Ryzen 7/1700x with a VEGA64 is at around 400-450W under max. Load.

So you're saying?

Oh wait, you rather have old, electronics waste kill your stuff than a new, modern and decent unit...

5 hours ago, uberas said:

every PSU is most efficient about 50% load.

That's absolute bullshit because it depends on the unit. The reason for that is the 3 point "Measurements" from 80plus. If you look at something that has more than that, you see that this claim doesn't hold up!

And the "most efficient" part is somewhere between 30-60%.

And in 230VAC, in some cases the difference between 30 and 60% load is so negligable that it doesn't matter. Meaning less than 0,5% difference in many cases.

SO that is just not true.

5 hours ago, uberas said:

IMHO better to have some headroom 

For what exactly?!

 

If you want that, pay more for a NEW better quality PSU!

 

Rule of the Thumb:
If you need 750W, you have the 150€ for a good quality, Platinum or Titanium unit.

If you don't have the money for that, you don't need it. And a good 400-550W PSU is what you really want.

 

But if you don't want to spend money, you have to live with some downsides.

[Settlerteo]

3 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

But if you don't want to spend money, you have to live with some downsides.

I thought you were gonna say "If you don't want to spend money, you re not eligible to have a personal computer".

[uberas]

5 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yes and my (not overclocked) Ryzen 7/1700x with a VEGA64 is at around 400-450W under max. Load.

So you're saying?

Oh wait, you rather have old, electronics waste kill your stuff than a new, modern and decent unit...

That's absolute bullshit because it depends on the unit. The reason for that is the 3 point "Measurements" from 80plus. If you look at something that has more than that, you see that this claim doesn't hold up!

Well right, I’m living under the rock for over a decade now (i5 2500k + hd7870 was my last build) and all 80+ bronze and above should be fine with marginally 10% difference across the board of efficiency. Usually It is recommended to have 20% headroom anyway as electronics wear down slower (I know that’s gonna be under 100% load rarely, but still)

5 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

If you want that, pay more for a NEW better quality PSU!

 

Rule of the Thumb:
If you need 750W, you have the 150€ for a good quality, Platinum or Titanium unit.

If you don't have the money for that, you don't need it. And a good 400-550W PSU is what you really want.

 

But if you don't want to spend money, you have to live with some downsides.

That’s right, I want to cheap out on PSU but balance the risk and I’ve always used for example old fortrons in my builds. Probably having good experience with that I was trying to compromise somehow..:(

5 hours ago, Settlerteo said:

I thought you were gonna say "If you don't want to spend money, you re not eligible to have a personal computer".

Funny enough I know that, that’s why I haven’t bought one of these: https://www.cclonline.com/product/250070/XP400R6/Power-Supplies/Xilence-Performance-C-Series-400W-Power-Supply-Unit/PSU1545/

[Stefan Payne]

2 hours ago, uberas said:

Usually It is recommended to have 20% headroom anyway as electronics wear down slower (I know that’s gonna be under 100% load rarely, but still

While that is true, modern PSU are rated for very high Ambient Temperatures, 40-50°C for the good ones are comon. 

So with that, I'd rather use a good PSU that's a bit on the lower end to 100% than a bad one at around 50%.

But with those Components and no OC; I dobut you'll be much over 200W Load.

 

 

Quote

That’s right, I want to cheap out on PSU but balance the risk and I’ve always used for example old fortrons in my builds. Probably having good experience with that I was trying to compromise somehow..:(

Well, you don't save much by cheaping out on PSU. 

It might look like you save some money but at the same time you also lose lifetime of the components, so you pay more in the end than with a good quality PSU.

Quote

Funny enough I know that, that’s why I haven’t bought one of these: https://www.cclonline.com/product/250070/XP400R6/Power-Supplies/Xilence-Performance-C-Series-400W-Power-Supply-Unit/PSU1545/

the C is not good, the A+ and X is what you should be looking for,.

be quiet System Power 9 with 400W and more is also a decent option "over there"...

[hello_there_123]

On 3/7/2019 at 2:28 PM, uberas said:

Usually It is recommended to have 20% headroom anyway as electronics wear down slower (I know that’s gonna be under 100% load rarely, but still)

Recommended by whom? 

[chittapanu]

hi, im not sure that ThermalTake Smart BX1 650w in tier 3 or 6??

[Stefan Payne]

7 hours ago, chittapanu said:

hi, im not sure that ThermalTake Smart BX1 650w in tier 3 or 6??

More Tier 6 than Tier 3 because group regulated and looks rather cheapish...

Really not recommendable, not worth the money.

For a bit more you get really better units!

 

And its not even cheap! The BX1 550W is 50€, for 50€ you can get a 400W Pure Power wich is way better or a Cooler Master Master Watt 450W, Corsair CX or even CXM, wich is far better value for the money...

[chittapanu]

On 3/13/2019 at 6:17 AM, Stefan Payne said:

More Tier 6 than Tier 3 because group regulated and looks rather cheapish...

Really not recommendable, not worth the money.

For a bit more you get really better units!

 

And its not even cheap! The BX1 550W is 50€, for 50€ you can get a 400W Pure Power wich is way better or a Cooler Master Master Watt 450W, Corsair CX or even CXM, wich is far better value for the money...

thank you!!!

[ZinouTheBeast XXI]

i need help i have this powersuply , https://www.thermaltake.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00001966 which 730w smart SE , is it tier  5 or tier 3 ??? Thermaltake - DPS Gold/RGB, London, BlueEvo 2.0, Smart Pro RGB, Smart series >= 750W i am confused between these names

[Rexper]

46 minutes ago, ZinouTheBeast XXI said:

i need help i have this powersuply , https://www.thermaltake.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00001966 which 730w smart SE , is it tier  5 or tier 3 ??? Thermaltake - DPS Gold/RGB, London, BlueEvo 2.0, Smart Pro RGB, Smart series >= 750W i am confused between these names

Your power supply isn't good.

http://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&amp;hl=es&amp;rurl=translate.google.com&amp;sl=ru&amp;tl=en&amp;u=http://www.easycom.com.ua/power/thermaltake_smart_se_sps-630m/%3Flang%3Dru

If I had to guess, since no one really knows the criteria in this PSU list, it would sit at T4 or T5.

[ZinouTheBeast XXI]

10 hours ago, Rexper said:

Your power supply isn't good.

http://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&amp;hl=es&amp;rurl=translate.google.com&amp;sl=ru&amp;tl=en&amp;u=http://www.easycom.com.ua/power/thermaltake_smart_se_sps-630m/%3Flang%3Dru

If I had to guess, since no one really knows the criteria in this PSU list, it would sit at T4 or T5.

is it a guess or what ? i am looking for a straight answer  my friend bought this power suply last year and used it with i7 8700k + rtx 2080ti 16gb ram and 2SSD + 2 HDDs and didn't encouter any problems so far even in summer our country can get pretty hot in juilly almost 45 degrees celsius , i am looking for people that really know power suply industy not just random guess , sorry my friend but your answer is kinda strange