No Man's sky might be delayed because of patent

[CaptainGazzz]

Quote

The Dutch company Genicap may hold a patent that could potentially be an obstacle for the game No Man's Sky, which the Telegraph writes on Wednesday. The patent is a formula for an expanding planetary system like that in the game.

According to the Telegraph Genicap has given no license to Hello Games for the use of the patent. Spokesman Jeroen Sparrow informs the newspaper that it is not the intention to stop the release of the game, but that the two sides "will have to sit down at some point ." Genicap was not immediately available for comment, so it is unclear to which patent is involved. The company owns several patents 

There has been no further contact has been between Genicap and Hello Games, because the studio did not respond to contact attempts. The Dutch company itself is working on a game, and therefore obliged to 'exchange knowledge with Hello Games. Lawyer Arnoud Engelfriet tells the Telegraph that it could pose a problem for distributor Sony if a patent is indeed being infringed. The distribution could then be stopped and a penalty may be imposed.

I didn't know that it is possible to have a patent on a formula. I think its not so much a formula that describes the planetary system, but more a piece of code that you can use to make an expanding planetary system.

Personally I am not really looking forward to No Man's Sky, I don't think it will turn out that great. I don't believe they can make the planets very different from one another. I think it's another game that is just overhyped, especially by casual gamers. 

I don't believe that Hello Games actually used a patented formula, not on purpose at least. It seems outright stupid to use a technology in your game that is patented without permission, your game might very well never hit shelves because of that. I think Genicap is just trying to get some quick cash. Because they are developing a game themselves they could be trying to hurt the competition. 

 

Source: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Ftweakers.net%2Fnieuws%2F113761%2Fnederlands-patent-vormt-mogelijk-obstakel-voor-no-mans-sky.html(dutch translation)

Source 2: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/07/no-mans-sky-faces-potential-patent-fight-over-use-of-superformula/ (English)

Edited July 21, 2016 by CaptainGazzz
New sources added

[TrigrH]

More like No Mans' game at this point 

[ManIkWeet]

This is what you get when you pre-announce a game long before it's finished. People will find ways to complain about it, patent troll you about it or decide they won't get it.

 

If the pre-order/pre-release business stopped yesterday this wouldn't have been an issue.

[zMeul]

6 minutes ago, CaptainGazzz said:

I don't believe that Hello Games actually used a patented formula, not on purpose at least.

how many other people have arrived to the same formula as Einstein? 

E = mc²

[Eroda]

5 minutes ago, ManIkWeet said:

This is what you get when you pre-announce a game long before it's finished. People will find ways to complain about it, patent troll you about it or decide they won't get it.

 

If the pre-order/pre-release business stopped yesterday this wouldn't have been an issue.

but how else will they trick you into buying a incomplete mess of a game??? its why i never preorder

 

good video on the subject NSFW

Spoiler

 

 

 

[CaptainGazzz]

3 hours ago, zMeul said:

how many other people have arrived to the same formula as Einstein? 

E = mc²

Thats not a formula you can actually patent. Einstein uses this formula to describe a law in physics.

Someone on Tweakers actually gave a really good example: A MPEG encoding algorithm, that is something that you can patent. It is an algorithm that someone made, it wasn't discovered. I think the same can be said for the other formula.

[M4st4M1nd]

I really hope this doesn't get delayed again. I feel like I'm dying waiting for it to come out. Especially since they've decided to delay it even longer in the UK for no apparent reason  ~Mikey

[Patrick3D]

Unless their patent pre-dates VGA Planets and/or Stars!, there is no chance of Genicap winning a lawsuit over the procedural generation of galaxies.

[Kozworth]

This game has been announced for so long now, why is Genicap just now bent out of shape about it?  Why wouldn't they either A) Have done this a lot sooner, or B) Waited til the game actually released and Hello Games is making loads of cash.  The timing makes no sense to me.

 

I really hope this doesn't delay the launch, I am looking forward to playing this as soon as possible.

[Trik'Stari]

I don't see how they could patent a "formula" since you can't patent facts or mathematical constructs (Which are basically facts in a certain way).

 

God the global patent system needs to be overhauled, by people who are younger than 40.

[CaptainGazzz]

12 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I don't see how they could patent a "formula" since you can't patent facts or mathematical constructs (Which are basically facts in a certain way).

 

God the global patent system needs to be overhauled, by people who are younger than 40.

Its not a fact or a mathematical construct. You can compare it to a program. It describes how to build a galaxy. It can be described to an audio or video codex.

 

I agree that the patent system needs to be overhauled. Patent trolling is a real problem. I would however not consider this to be patent trolling.

 

[Sakkura]

There are some more in-depth articles now, in English as well, like this one from Eurogamer.

[ThinkWithPortals]

Please God, no.

 

I love space sims, I've wanted one for so long. Elite looks fantastic but the gameplay is meh, I'll have grown old and died by the time Star Citizen releases. No Man's Sky, you're my only hope. The thought of zipping around a procedurally-generated galaxy is excellent

[Orblivion]

I think Genicap actually has a case here.  In the other articles I've read about this story, it is mentioned that Sean Murray said they were having a lot of trouble with the procedural generation part of the game until he found a formula created by Johan Gielis.  Johan Gielis happens to be the Chief Research Officer at Genicap, and they've had a patent pertaining to that formula for more than a decade.  The worst part is, you can't actually patent a formula, but you can patent an intended use of said formula.  The patent Genicap has for this formula pertains to "the creation of 2D/3D models and animation".

 

Genicap also says they have contacted Hello Games several times and have received no response.

[VerticalDiscussions]

Another delay and well probably start seeing Hello Games developers dead on the streets :l....!

[spartaman64]

6 hours ago, CaptainGazzz said:

Its not a fact or a mathematical construct. You can compare it to a program. It describes how to build a galaxy. It can be described to an audio or video codex.

 

I agree that the patent system needs to be overhauled. Patent trolling is a real problem. I would however not consider this to be patent trolling.

 

you can patent code but not a mathematical formula. if i am the first one to do 1+5+6=12 i cant patent that and sue anyone after me who does that equation. or if i am fibbonacci i cant sue people who use the fibbonacci sequence

[Guest Kloaked]

1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

you can patent code but not a mathematical formula. if i am the first one to do 1+5+6=12 i cant patent that and sue anyone after me who does that equation. or if i am fibbonacci i cant sue people who use the fibbonacci sequence

Go to Genicap's website and you'll see it's not just a formula. They actually have code that will generate things like 3D procedural planets.

 

What I'm confused about is how they obtained the code without contacting them, because you can't just download a kit from their website. That leads me to believe they either contacted them about the code and got a handshake permission to use it but then Genicap is going back on their word, or Hello Games is using just the idea of it which Genicap cannot have a patent on afaik.

[spartaman64]

7 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

Go to Genicap's website and you'll see it's not just a formula. They actually have code that will generate things like 3D procedural planets.

 

What I'm confused about is how they obtained the code without contacting them, because you can't just download a kit from their website. That leads me to believe they either contacted them about the code and got a handshake permission to use it but then Genicap is going back on their word, or Hello Games is using just the idea of it which Genicap cannot have a patent on afaik.

but the company issuing the strike specifically said formula not code

[Dabombinable]

2 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

but the company issuing the strike specifically said formula not code

I think of it this way, Genicap is trying to go after Hello Games for using the same idea regardless of whether or not a totally different method is used.

[Orblivion]

5 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

I think of it this way, Genicap is trying to go after Hello Games for using the same idea regardless of whether or not a totally different method is used.

It isn't regardless, Genicap isn't certain that Hello Games is using their patent but they think they are.  Especially since the founder of Hello Games is quoted as saying they were having trouble with the procedural code until he found something online from Johan Gielis.  Johan Gielis happens to the be the guy who created the patented work at Genicap.  That quote tipped them off that he may have used their code without a license.  They say they have tried to contact Hello Games several times but have been ignored thus far.

[Dabombinable]

Just now, Orblivion said:

It isn't regardless, Genicap isn't certain that Hello Games is using their patent but they think he is.  Especially since the founder of Hello Games is quoted as saying they were having trouble with the procedural code until he found something online from Johan Gielis.  Johan Gielis happens to the be the guy who created the patented work at Genicap.

And? Genicap is going after the formula, ergo the idea, not code that was used. Now if it was the same code, then Genicap is well within their rights, If its different however (aka more than several lines difference-it'd be a rather large chunk overall). Otherwise it'd be as if the creators of the first CPU said that no one else could design/make CPU as the idea or formula was under a patent.

[Guest Kloaked]

15 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

but the company issuing the strike specifically said formula not code

Have you seen the legal documents?

[spartaman64]

5 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

Have you seen the legal documents?

no but if the company is going after the code it is a bit strange that they never mention code and say formula

[Guest Kloaked]

Just now, spartaman64 said:

no but if the company is going after the code it is a bit strange that they never mention code and say formula

Might be interchangeable to them, which is my whole point. We don't know all of the details.

[Orblivion]

7 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

And? Genicap is going after the formula, ergo the idea, not code that was used. Now if it was the same code, then Genicap is well within their rights, If its different however (aka more than several lines difference-it'd be a rather large chunk overall). Otherwise it'd be as if the creators of the first CPU said that no one else could design/make CPU as the idea or formula was under a patent.

It isn't the code that is patented.  It is the specific use of the formula, in this case "for the creation of 2D/3D models and animation".  If Hello Games did use Johan Gielis', ie Genicap's, formula, there is a very good chance that it was for the creation of 2D/3D models and animation.