Ammendment to Community Standards and more

[AlTech]

2 minutes ago, Bsmith said:

If you are suggesting an action against "plagiarism" or the way people talk, then you should know where to draw the line of click bait/offending and a joke, not that a joke in the title is bad, but if it's done constantly by the same person it can be easily mistaken for something else.

Yeah well if you read the first few lines then you'd realize the intent.........

[Bsmith]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

Yeah well if you read the first few lines then you'd realize the intent.........

which isn't the thing that everyone does, pc allows to do that but phone doesn't. There by comes the fact that some people(like me) have limited bandwidth one phone since unlimited plans aren't available in every country.
I can see your reasoning for a joke in the title, it makes boring content more interesting, but since it's the internet it is not always easy to follow the right intonation of words, even when meant positive or jokingly. It's a problem that I know all to well myself.

[AlTech]

2 minutes ago, Bsmith said:

which isn't the thing that everyone does, pc allows to do that but phone doesn't. There by comes the fact that some people(like me) have limited bandwidth one phone since unlimited plans aren't available in every country.
I can see your reasoning for a joke in the title, it makes boring content more interesting, but since it's the internet it is not always easy to follow the right intonation of words, even when meant positive or jokingly. It's a problem that I know all to well myself.

I'll try to cut back jokes on stuff which is more interesting.

[Bsmith]

2 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I'll try to cut back jokes on stuff which is more interesting.

I admit that it might be a viable thing to do or at the very least an interesting experiment.
What I would personally do is see how the "consumption" rate would change and how people would react differently and/or more positive/negative depending on those titles. Although it would be positive on certain parts for sure since there (sadly) are still people around that read the title and then place a reaction already.
I would not personally let your view alter too much on just my words, since I read most news topics anyway when I got the possibility.

[LogicalDrm]

Plagiarism is bit funny to talk in open forums. While in written media (news, reviews, articles, blogs etc.) its standard and good behavior to cite previous telling of same story, I don't see point of getting butthurt when you submit something to open forums. TN&N isn't written media yet (and probably never will be since self-advertising isn't allowed). Its you sharing news you found with personalizing comments. If someone is lazy and uses your work as template, be proud. Copying (or mimicking) is highest form of appreciation. And you are allowed to tell copycat that its your words originally and you would like little citation in the end for it.

 

Swearing... Didn't we talk it over already?

Garbage topics. Spamming is against CS, as you should already know. Report and ignore.

 

Do you really think we need more mods? I mean, really? We have 23 mods and 4 active admins (@Slick included (Hail to my not-working-tagging)). In last 6 months (or so) we've got 6 new mods. Is that still too few? And how you define if veteran forum user is worthy of moderator upgrade? By time spend on forums? By post count? By being generally helpful while posting a lot? By mass reporting everything?

 

I tend to think forums have lot common with modern country. Where mods are like police force. Police can't be everywhere and adding more mods doesn't mean that shitposting, swearing or general bad attitude will be gone at once. They both need calls for help from citizen/users. In real world you dial 911/112 or whatever local number for it is. In here its that triangle with exclamation mark called "Report".

[STRMfrmXMN]

5 hours ago, Hackentosher said:

Colorful fucking language is very fucking necessary as restricting it would be fucking censorship and we don't want to be like the US fucking SR, now do we? Now on a more serious note, I do think that colorful language is not a problem. Different people express themselves in different ways. If you're butt hurt by a few letters in a certain arrangement represented by pixels on the screen in front of you, you need to adjust your life choices. 

 

I totally agree with the plagiarism bit, it is never acceptable to steal someone else's work or words without giving them credit. 

 

As for the mod bit, ive seen this discussed before. You don't reach out to become a mod of LTT. LTT reaches out to you to be a mod. If they need more mods (which I dont think they do), they have plenty of good choices. @ShadowCaptain, @iamdarkyoshi, @Aytex, @STRMfrmXMN, to name a few. 

Dunno about Aytex but OK, thanks fam

[PlayStation 2]

Ha.

We all know here that the swearing part isn't gonna get added.

[Unhelpful]

8 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

 

No swearing? Why? That's stupid. If your delicate eyes can't handle swearing then you need to get off of the internet. 

 

8 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

And also, I feel some of us more experienced people who are more mature than a lot of the others should be allowed a formal application process to be a mod and if allowed then put on a waiting list.

You're not exactly mature. You're a child, 16 or 17 and act 12. You're one of the most immature children on the forums.

 

The area you live in is shining through, trying to censor people. Child.

[BuckGup]

Isn't it against CoC to ask to be mod? Also swearing is fine. Have you ever been to public school? Have you ever watched youtube or TV? Have you ever been in public?

[LogicalDrm]

9 hours ago, SamStrecker said:

Isn't it against CoC to ask to be mod? Also swearing is fine. Have you ever been to public school? Have you ever watched youtube or TV? Have you ever been in public?

Not against. But since selection process isn't straightforward, asking to become one puts you at tail end of line.

[straight_stewie]

19 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

And I think we need to cut back on swearing.

I haven't noticed swearing as a big issue on this forum. I rarely see it and when I do it's usually during political or otherwise normally heated discussion. We do need to recognize that there are children who use this forum and keep things pg. For the most part, I think we all do that as much as possible, even though sometimes the real world gets in through the cracks.

Ultimately the point is this: This forum is hosted in a country where there is freedom of speech. Most of it's users come from one of many countries that value freedom of speech. Beyond that, this is a congregation of internet users, and the internet has always had an atmosphere of "fuck you, I do what I want". I know that this can offend some people (Sorry about your sensibilities @AluminiumTech), but that's the way it is and I, like many others, love it that way. The internet is the last bastion of a truly free society, going around trying to change that is a good way to make yourself very unpopular and to ensure that you will never become a mod.

[BuckGup]

43 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

Not against. But since selection process isn't straightforward, asking to become one puts you at tail end of line.

What I was thinking

[vanished]

14 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

Ultimately the point is this: This forum is hosted in a country where there is freedom of speech. Most of it's users come from one of many countries that value freedom of speech. Beyond that, this is a congregation of internet users, and the internet has always had an atmosphere of "fuck you, I do what I want". I know that this can offend some people (Sorry about your sensibilities @AluminiumTech), but that's the way it is and I, like many others, love it that way. The internet is the last bastion of a truly free society, going around trying to change that is a good way to make yourself very unpopular and to ensure that you will never become a mod.

On that topic however, it is important to remember this is a private forum hosted and run by individuals, and we make no promise or guarantee of upholding free speech on this forum.  We do our best to let everyone share their opinions equally, but (as has surely become evident over time) certain topics of discussion to get terminated from time to time.

[straight_stewie]

3 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

On that topic however, it is important to remember this is a private forum hosted and run by individuals, and we make no promise or guarantee of upholding free speech on this forum.  We do our best to let everyone share their opinions equally, but (as has surely become evident over time) certain topics of discussion to get terminated from time to time.

I'm aware. I was just pointing out that freedom of speech is highly valued by the individuals running the forum and by most individuals using it. The point being that I was trying to say that there is likely to be a high degree of freedom concerning most things, i.e. If it's generally acceptable in society, it will generally be acceptable on the website.

[vanished]

6 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

I'm aware. I was just pointing out that freedom of speech is highly valued by the individuals running the forum and by most individuals using it. The point being that I was trying to say that there is likely to be a high degree of freedom concerning most things, i.e. If it's generally acceptable in society, it will generally be acceptable on the website.

For the most part, yes.  Some of our rules exist just because it would be illegal, like piracy, and some exist because it messes with the site and Google search algorithms and ads and stuff (like porn) as Linus mentioned on the WAN show.  The rest exist just to try and keep this a friendly place for everyone.

[Guest]

Well I've read through this thread a few times and while I do acknowledge your points, I don't see many issues.

 

The current guidelines surrounding profanity and swearing seem to be working just fine. As mentioned, this is the internet - just because we say not to do something, doesn't mean it won't happen. We haven't seen that many issues of gross profanity and generally when there is, the user is banned for other issues.

 

As for plagiarism, we've already covered that under piracy as well as with the guidelines outlining what can and can't be posted in the TN&R section.

 

Lastly, with relation to the moderation team, applications and joining the team - every occurrence of an application process for staff that I've seen has always ended badly. Do we need more staff? Yes. Can we easily find staff that will integrate well with the team? No. 

 

I will though outline how the process works. We have a thread in a hidden section of the forum outlining that we need more staff and for the team to post their suggestions. Those suggestions are then looked at and commented on by the team. Provided none of the mod team have highlighted any major issues, they're then assessed by Whaler, Luke or myself and invited to the team. You'd be surprised that we've actually had a number of people turn down the invite too.

 

As always though, if you see content on the forums that you don't think should be there, please report it and it will be assessed by a member of staff.

 

 - Wind

 

 

[Atmos]

1 hour ago, Windspeed36 said:

 

Lastly, with relation to the moderation team, applications and joining the team - every occurrence of an application process for staff that I've seen has always ended badly. Do we need more staff? Yes. Can we easily find staff that will integrate well with the team? No. 

 

I will though outline how the process works. We have a thread in a hidden section of the forum outlining that we need more staff and for the team to post their suggestions. Those suggestions are then looked at and commented on by the team. Provided none of the mod team have highlighted any major issues, they're then assessed by Whaler, Luke or myself and invited to the team. You'd be surprised that we've actually had a number of people turn down the invite too.

 

As always though, if you see content on the forums that you don't think should be there, please report it and it will be assessed by a member of staff.

 

 - Wind

 

 

 

So that's how you guys go about it. Damn, now I want to see that juicy section full of great chances for drama. :3

 

I can really fully understand that whole, needing people who can integrate well into the current hierarchy bit. Back when I was running multiple gameservers, and gaming communities, it was always a fine line between having enough guys on the moderation team to maintain a productive and friendly environment, and not just letting anyone who can put up a good facade onto the team. Even guys we thought we knew pretty well ended up being total nightmares when no one was looking; there's still a great example of an admin I worked with back in the day, who had been part of our team for nearly three years and had helped us so freaking much. We found out later on he was selling spawned in items for irl money on our servers, which was just heartbreaking. He then of course went ballistic and tried to destroy our forums and game server when we confronted him.

 

Basically, I get that. It can be insanely hard to tell what people's underlying motives are; and your guys process for staff invitations is probably one of the safer routes you can take, but also explains why there are so few new members of the team that I've seen over my years here. However, it *seems* to at least turn out a genuinely effective team.

[Shakaza]

My interpretation on the swearing issue is that this is an open forum and people should be able to express themselves however they please, to an extent. On the internet, the expectation is that you are always going to encounter something you don't like or agree with, because there are people from all walks of life, so one set of values doesn't cut it. Of course, I don't particularly condone the usage of swears and insults for an attack on someone, but that's more due to the nature of the attack than the swears themselves. Furthermore, I very rarely encounter attacks of such severity and from a high enough number of people that they could have a deep psychological impact, so rarely in fact that they could be dealt with on a case by case basis, and even those effects can be mitigated by the support of kinder people intermingled.

 

Generally, I see swears used in a way that is technically possible to be construed as offensive, but in nearly every case, no harm is done. So, I usually find their usage to be positive, because they can allow one to express a range of emotions that one simply cannot get across in another way. I never use swears unless I am in a state of extreme rage, but I still recognize that they can be used to express intense anger, passion, and even likes or dislikes of something to the highest degree.

 

As for your plagiarism point, the incident that @LAwLz showed to us is the only time I have seen something on this forum that could be construed as plagiarism. Therefore, it isn't a pressing concern, and will be handled sufficiently on a case by case basis because the guidelines set forth in the Community Standards do cover it, even if it is a bit nebulous. If the incidence rate increases significantly in the future, I can see an explicit rule being added, but it is entirely unnecessary for the current state of the forum.

 

Moderation, or the lack thereof (due to insufficient staffing and the like, not ineffectiveness. You guys are great) is an issue, however. I have repeatedly seen reports from the mods and admins we have now that they are understaffed and their resources are straining under the ever-increasing user-base of the forum. I must admit, though, that despite everything, they always do an effective and quick job.

 

Something should be done, yes, but your solution has some holes in it. It is good in theory, but, as @Windspeed36 mentioned, it doesn't work as intended in practice. But, who am I to talk, eh? I don't have anything better in mind.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Shakaza
Removed an extraneous comma ;)

[AlTech]

10 hours ago, Windspeed36 said:

Lastly, with relation to the moderation team, applications and joining the team - every occurrence of an application process for staff that I've seen has always ended badly. Do we need more staff? Yes. Can we easily find staff that will integrate well with the team? No. 

 

I will though outline how the process works. We have a thread in a hidden section of the forum outlining that we need more staff and for the team to post their suggestions. Those suggestions are then looked at and commented on by the team. Provided none of the mod team have highlighted any major issues, they're then assessed by Whaler, Luke or myself and invited to the team. You'd be surprised that we've actually had a number of people turn down the invite too.

 

As always though, if you see content on the forums that you don't think should be there, please report it and it will be assessed by a member of staff.

 

 - Wind

It would be nice to know if people are considered or turned down. So for example, PM someone you considered or PM someone you turned down.

 

Also, I just wanted to commend you & all the other mods on your professionalism on the forums . Good Job Everybody!

[Unhelpful]

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

 

Asskisser. There is no reason for anybody to know who was turned down or considered.

[minibois]

I don't agree with this (other than the plagiarism of course, but that already falls under reposting). Swearing should be allowed (of course not swearing at someone, eg calling someone a dumbass, but that falls under another rule in the community standards).

Assistant mod already exists, it's called reporting posts.

On 7/7/2016 at 10:12 AM, MegaDave91 said:

-snip-

Not removing formatting should be against the rules  

[Tieox]

Don't let this place become another politically correct, infraction-filled forum.  I've left many like that.  In the end, the members who bring the community get fed up of getting infractions for minor offenses and just leave. 

 

 

[AlTech]

15 minutes ago, JoeyDM said:

Asskisser. There is no reason for anybody to know who was turned down or considered.

Some people may wish to know if they were turned down. They could use this information to improve themselves as a person.

 

 

[Unhelpful]

10 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

 

They don't need to know whether or not they were ever considered. That causes undue drama.

[Murasaki]

I have yet to see a community where its publicised who is going to be promoted soon/considered as candidate/did not pass account checks/ turned down invitation.

Why? Security.