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AMD once again violating power specifications? (AMD RX-480)

Majestic

I think AMD is keeping closed mouth for now so they can sell as much as possible,  but when the 1060 paper launches in week they are gonna be under a lot of trouble.  I am sure all the reviewers are gonna pick the 1060 over the 480 just for the simple fact that AMD thought they could bend the rules a bit and think it well go over reviews head and since people go harder on AMD I say AIB cards for the 480 need to be out this next couple of weeks  or else we go back to paying for overpriced products. 

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AMD should rename rx480 to 'FirePro'. :P

 

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People saying that using a little more than rated is fine...

I'm not a fan of this power delivery method at all.

 

Just like my system was "FINE" for months and months using 106.7BCLK and pushing my 4690 to 4.175Ghz

I'm obviously not talking Overnight damage, but in comparison.

Was fine.... for a few months, until surrounding components started dying, to which replacing the whole thing within 8-9 months...

"Specs/Limits/Maximum Values recommended" exist for a reason...

I'm not saying your PC is gunna die in a fire, but you never know, do you really wanna diagnose a random error that you think is your PSU/Board power delivery, but it's your GPU throwing off your Motherboard, how annoying and time consuming.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SkilledRebuilds said:

Just like my system was "FINE" using 106.7BCLK and pushing my 4690 to 4.175Ghz

I'm obviously not talking Overnight damage

Was fine.... for a few months, until surrounding components started dying, to which replacing the whole thing within 8-9 months...

"Specs/Limits/Maximum Values recommended" exist for a reason...

I'm not saying your PC is gunna die in a fire, but you never know, do you really wanna diagnose a random error that you think is your PSU/Board power delivery, but it's your GPU throwing off your Motherboard, how annoying and time consuming.

 

 

 

People are complaining their boards broke from hours of use, right now I've got 28 hours strong on a 4 year old chip and board.

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This is definitely an issue that needs to be rectified, but it really only needs to be set to pull all power over 60 watts or so from PSU cable only. There are no extra 12v wires in an 8-pin, only "sense" wires, for power regulation, or grounds, which does still have an effect, to be sure, but most 6 to 8 adapters just share existing ground wires with the new ground pins, letting you pull 8 pin power from a 6 pin connector. And while I cannot say this for sure without going back and checking I am almost positive I have seen PSU 8-pin cables that do the same thing for the 8 pin on their boxes, maybe just a kludgy way to upsell their older design that had 6 pins at a higher price touting 8-pin connections. But while a 6 pin is spec'ed to less power than an 8 it is physically capable of pushing just about as much power as the 8 pin anyway, physically. Heck look at PoE injectors, those are insanely tiny wires comparatively. Cat5 is typically 24 gauge and is expected to handle upwards of 30 watts PSU cabling is typically 16 to 18 gauge and you have what... 3 of those wires carrying 12v? EASILY capable of transporting over double a 24 gauge wire, and you have 3 of them. nominally 180 watts safely via a single 6 pin. 

 

This is super suspect napkin math here, but AMD really dropped the ball if they spent all this time making the slot side this power hungry rather than the PSU side. I really hope its a logic issue that can be rectified in situ. I haven't bought a new card at retail since the 90's but this generation was making me think maybe now is the time. I'm gonna wait and see a little bit longer.

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5 hours ago, DevilishBooster said:

@Majestic @Prysin @patrickjp93 @zMeul (There are probably others I was talking with, but you guys were the main people).

I have done more reading and research in the past 24 hours than I have in probably the last month (and that's saying something). Basically I felt like I was back in college cramming for an exam where I skipped all the classes for the entire semester. Lol!

I just want to publicly say (because I am not some unapologetic AMD fanboy, I like both Team Green and Red) I was mistaken on some comments in this thread yesterday regarding this situation. So, what I am trying to say is that...

I was wr-        I was wro-        *deep breath*        I was wwrrrrrrrrr-arrrrgh!! *sigh*

I was wrong. (Fuck, that hurts to admit... Lol)

:PxD

I have been reading through the PCI-SIG specs and a bunch of articles, and I think I know where my misunderstanding on the power delivery was and I feel I now have a better understanding of how the power delivery works. It saddens me that AMD screwed up this bad because I was really hoping this would bring them back as a competitive player in the GPU market. Unfortunately, it looks like this is not something that a BIOS update can fix, so this is probably going to really backfire on AMD big time. I guess at this point we just have to hope that they can fix the issue and still bring the 480 to market so that there is a strong player in the $200-$250 range, even if it does use more than 150W.

Good on you man. That happened to me a couple months back on here...

That moment when you realize you were wrong... Not a good feeling.

But, with the few people on here that aren't blinded fanboys, you just gained a lot of credit.

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PCPer has tested the 960 Strix on user request and did not find any problems with their sample. Whether it's the exact same model and revision is unclear but what is clear is that they did not find issue with it.

 

PS. I'm posting this for one reason only: full disclosure. I do wish the thread would die but it probably won't.

I do wish AMD would come forth with a solution soon so we can get this over with. Rumors said today but we haven't heard anything yet, so I guess it'll be next week considering it's Friday. AMD can't afford to be quiet for much longer though; the backlash is massive.

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I Have seen a lot of talk everywhere about the RX 480 being fine for newer systems. The problem with that logic is newer power supplies, even a PSU like the CX430 that you can find for dirt cheap, have a 6+2 pin connector on them. I think the last time I bought a PSU with only 6-pin pcie cables was 10 years ago. I can understand AMD hoping to target old AthlonX2 and core2Duo machines, but good luck finding one of those machines still running with its original PSU (at least if its been used since then), especially if its a prebuilt. I really can't think of a logical reason to not use an 8-pin connector (or 2x 6-pin), besides trying to cover up true TDP of the card.

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1 hour ago, HalGameGuru said:

At what point does the system shut down with the 480? IS it during stress or on boot?

during any game; it boots OK - as the youtuber said

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1 hour ago, ttam said:

People are complaining their boards broke from hours of use, right now I've got 28 hours strong on a 4 year old chip and board.

what is the config you're doing the test?

if you already posted it .. sorry, I just returned 

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Interestingly enough, JayzTwoCents just tweeted out that it turns out most cards pull more than 75W from the PCIe slot - especially when OC'd. Not sure where he got that from, but right before that he tweeted out about finishing up filming his 480 Crossfire video, so I wonder if he's going to talk about it there. Just thought I would mention it.

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3 minutes ago, DevilishBooster said:

Interestingly enough, JayzTwoCents just tweeted out that it turns out most cards pull more than 75W from the PCIe slot - especially when OC'd. Not sure where he got that from, but right before that he tweeted out about finishing up filming his 480 Crossfire video, so I wonder if he's going to talk about it there. Just thought I would mention it.

An average above 75 or peaks above 75?

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1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

An average above 75 or peaks above 75?

The impression I got was that it was an average above 75W, but given that it was a tweet I really think we need to wait to see what he has to say. I'm at work so I can't access Twitter on my computer, but here is what he said:

"Do I still recommend the 480? Absolutely. Turns out pretty much every card pulls more that 75w from the slot, especially when you OC"

So, take from that what you will. I think this will lead to some interesting developments in GPU design.

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Amd isn't doomed though. Non reference cards should have no issue.

And they'll do a recall if needed. They need to equip as much computer as possible so they'll be compliant enough.

You guys however need to stop saying they're doing it on purpose... error happens, why would they make it on purpose knowing it would backlash pretty harshly? We shouldn't be paranoid 

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AMD once again does the same as Nvidia but only AMD gets called on it.

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7 minutes ago, Jahramika said:

AMD once again does the same as Nvidia but only AMD gets called on it.

That's ONE card that was produced SOLELY by Asus. It had nothing to do with nVidia. Also, averages are still worse than peaks. 

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6 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

That's ONE card that was produced SOLELY by Asus. It had nothing to do with nVidia. Also, averages are still worse than peaks. 

LOL dude he list 3 cards you shill and this is the AMDs first thats been reported

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5 minutes ago, Jahramika said:

LOL dude he list 3 cards you shill and this is the AMDs first thats been reported

Okay, I'm a shill. You've got me.

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Nvidia did this a couple of times and nobody bats an eye.

 

AMD does this and the whole world goes wild.

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 I can't read through all this but............... what will this mean when the partners start delivering cards that have 2 pci-e 6pin connectors or one 8pin connector. my assumption, no board damage because enough power will be delivered.

 I get a little sick of this "power saver" crap. It might be okay from a marketing standpoint but don't screw your product.

 and I wonder if AMD knew this before release?

and I wonder if this is something new or if it's happened from time to time and just now things are being more scrutinized.

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31 minutes ago, DevilishBooster said:

The impression I got was that it was an average above 75W, but given that it was a tweet I really think we need to wait to see what he has to say. I'm at work so I can't access Twitter on my computer, but here is what he said:

"Do I still recommend the 480? Absolutely. Turns out pretty much every card pulls more that 75w from the slot, especially when you OC"

So, take from that what you will. I think this will lead to some interesting developments in GPU design.

No, hell no.  A lot of cards peak past the 75W spec(less than a millisec.).  On average sustained draw from the PCIE slot, no other cards I know of average over 75W on that slot. 

 

You know why?  Because they have cables that supply excess power.  Yes, cables.  So nice.  So cheap to manufacture.  :D

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25 minutes ago, Jahramika said:

AMD once again does the same as Nvidia but only AMD gets called on it.

You were not here during VRAMGate?  Boards were going nuts.  People trying to get their GTX 970s, that were happily gaming on for months, refunded .

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5 minutes ago, lightningterror said:

Nvidia did this a couple of times and nobody bats an eye.

 

AMD does this and the whole world goes wild.

nVidia did it on the 750Ti. The 950 and the 960, however were both board partners ONLY.  They were the ones who decided to make the specific models that had issues -- not nVidia. Plus the 950 only has an issue once overclocked (on that specific model with no PCIE power). Also, this case is a bit different, the big problem is the sustained averages above spec, not the peaks. The 750Ti had an average within spec and just spiked whereas the 480 is averaging over spec. Pcper posted a report from someone in the motherboard industry who claimed that peaks over spec aren't a problem but averages over 95w could cause damage in the long run. 

 

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6 hours ago, Sintezza said:

 

TS isnt AMD biassed in anyway either.

Not sure where you get that bullshit from. :)

 

Oh remember that video where they blatantly benchmarked a certain CPU in a manner that was misleading

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7 minutes ago, stconquest said:

No, hell no.  A lot of cards peak past the 75W spec(less than a millisec.).  On average sustained draw from the PCIE slot, no other cards I know of average over 75W on that slot. 

 

You know why?  Because they have cables that supply excess power.  Yes, cables.  So nice.  So cheap to manufacture.  :D

Like I said before, this is what JayzTwoCents said in a Tweet a little bit ago. I personally would be surprised if they did, but I am going to wait until he releases a video on it to render an opinion.

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