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NovusBal

Twitch Troll Loses $50,000 - PayPal Refuses A Refund

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I don't understand why chargeback fees are on the streamers and not on the donator to begin with.


if you have to insist you think for yourself, i'm not going to believe you.

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2 minutes ago, thekeemo said:

streamers

that money was split up between many

Even better.


'Fanboyism is stupid' - someone on this forum.

Be nice to each other boys and girls. And don't cheap out on a power supply.

Spoiler

CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K - 4.5 GHz | Motherboard: ASUS MAXIMUS VII HERO | RAM: 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR3 | SSD: Samsung 850 EVO - 500GB | GPU: MSI GTX 980 Ti Gaming 6GB | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G2 | Case: NZXT Phantom 530 | Cooling: CRYORIG R1 Ultimate | Monitor: ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q | Peripherals: Corsair Vengeance K70 and Razer DeathAdder

 

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Nice let the kid learn a lesson!


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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4 hours ago, thekeemo said:

I cant help but feel sorry for him. Those of you that are happy with the outcome are seeking vengeance not rehabilitation. Faking not allowing him to withdraw is more than enough to teach him a lesson. (if the chrageback fees werent a thing)

No, it just encourages him (and others) to do the same thing going forward. Actions without consequences and all that.

4 hours ago, thekeemo said:

No. Also how is that screwing them over? They wouldnt have gotten the money in the first place. Not saying what he did isnt bad but it could definitely be worse.

That's like walking into a store, buying a TV, filing a fake chargeback the next day, then walking back into the shop and telling the owner that you didn't screw him over at all because you never intended to pay for that TV in the first place.

8 minutes ago, Suika said:

I don't understand why chargeback fees are on the streamers and not on the donator to begin with.

Because that would violate a few very important consumer protection laws in the United States. Technically, the chargeback fees hit Twitch, which then passes them through to streamers because they know their system is rife with fraud and don't care as long as they keep getting their cut of the donations their streamers bring in.

8 minutes ago, Schlomo Shekelstein said:

A lot of my friends work at PayPal. I believe they should keep the money to themselves.

So the claimant loses their money, the merchant loses their money, and the middle man gets to keep it all? Yeah, that makes sense.


Sincerely,

 

me

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3 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

That's like walking into a store, buying a TV, filing a fake chargeback the next day, then walking back into the shop and telling the owner that you didn't screw him over at all because you never intended to pay for that TV in the first place.

its annoying but doesnt cost the owner anything and if its opened up there are restocking fees.


Thats that. If you need to get in touch chances are you can find someone that knows me that can get in touch.

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2 minutes ago, thekeemo said:

its annoying but doesnt cost the owner anything and if its opened up there are restocking fees.

You don't have to return the item to file a chargeback. All you have to do is say that your card was used without your knowledge or consent. Short of video evidence or something like a PIN being used, there is very little a merchant can do to win that dispute.

 

You get a free TV, and the merchant gets hosed. Same basic principle as what could have happened here had the chargebacks not been rejected.


Sincerely,

 

me

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1 minute ago, aisle9 said:

You don't have to return the item to file a chargeback. All you have to do is say that your card was used without your knowledge or consent. Short of video evidence or something like a PIN being used, there is very little a merchant can do to win that dispute.

 

You get a free TV, and the merchant gets hosed. Same as what happened here.

The troller didnt exactly get any goods..


Thats that. If you need to get in touch chances are you can find someone that knows me that can get in touch.

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Just now, thekeemo said:

The troller didnt exactly get any goods..

I edited my reply. Same basic principle. The troll sent in a good faith payment for services rendered, which is basically what a Twitch donation is: compensation to the streamer for providing a service. Whether that payment was serious or not is irrelevant. The payment was sent in via authorized use of an identity-confirmed payment method. How on Earth should the streamer not be entitled to keep that payment?


Sincerely,

 

me

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5 hours ago, thekeemo said:

Which is why I said he is not excused because of the chargeback fees.. otherwise it would not seriously harm the streamers.

Even if there weren't chargeback fees it's horrible and may still do a lot of harm. What if that person already spent the money? Streamer's that have been in the business for a while know not to do that anymore but if you're new, or just never heard of this scam you can get caught in a really crappy situation where you've spent 5k on stuff you normally wouldn't and now you have to figure out what to do. This is actually the intention of the person sending in the money, otherwise he'd have the money refunded the next day, but instead he waits a couple months for the person to think it's alright to spend the money.

 

Even without that you're just a horrible person if you think it's ok to do...like giving a child a slice of cake and the hitting it out of their hand when they're about to eat it, laughing. Oh...think I have a good video of that:

 

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1 minute ago, Yog said:

Even if there weren't chargeback fees it's horrible and may still do a lot of harm. What if that person already spent the money? Streamer's that have been in the business for a while know not to do that anymore but if you're new, or just never heard of this scam you can get caught in a really crappy situation where you've spent 5k on stuff you normally wouldn't and now you have to figure out what to do. This is actually the intention of the person sending in the money, otherwise he'd have the money refunded the next day, but instead he waits a couple months for the person to think it's alright to spend the money.

 

Even without that you're just a horrible person if you think it's ok to do...like giving a child a slice of cake and the hitting it out of their hand when they're about to eat it, laughing. Oh...think I have a good video of that:

 

Months? 1 month..

But yes 100% douchebaggy thing to do.


Thats that. If you need to get in touch chances are you can find someone that knows me that can get in touch.

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2 minutes ago, thekeemo said:

Months? 1 month..

I was speaking in general, the article said this guy's plan was to wait a month, others have been given chargebacks after several months. That was a while ago, though, so you might not be able to do that anymore.

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Here is video with the donations

 


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12 hours ago, MineralMining said:

What if this was your kid though?

Just a 10 year old with moms credit card... hopefully not and justice was served on a 30 year old troll

if it was , she's doing parenting wrong


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I dont even get why anyone would do that!

 

Ive never even had that much money.


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The kid doesn't understand the value of money, and no one is blaming the parents? 

 

I feel like there's a whole background to this people aren't discussing.

 

If the kid is a prick with money that may or may not be his at AGE 18, then what do you think his parents are like? 

 

One could only imagine....


 

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4 hours ago, Thony said:

Here is video with the donations

 

damn, love those reactions 


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17 hours ago, Suika said:

I don't understand why chargeback fees are on the streamers and not on the donator to begin with.

The Chargeback fees are on the Streamer, because in this case, the Streamer is the "Merchant". This is to protect the buyer.

 

The Chargeback system in general is entirely for consumer/buyer protection.

 

A Chargeback is NOT THE SAME as a Refund. A chargeback is when you dispute the payment with your payment provider (Eg: Credit Card or PayPal). You can only do so in a few situations, such as you didn't authorize the payment (Eg: Let's say your ISP charges you double by accident one month), or when someone steals your payment information and charges a bunch of stuff, or when the Merchant tries to scam you (Sends you a DOA item and refuses to exchange it, or just refuses to send the item at all, etc).

 

The problem is, that pretty much any good Buyer Protection is going to be biased towards the Buyer, since it's easier for the buyer to be screwed.

 

You should ONLY use the Chargeback system when you are the victim of some sort of fraud by the Seller/Merchant (The streamer in this case). If you decide you simply changed your mind about donating to a Streamer, that's not what the Chargeback System is for. So even if it was a "legit" accident (Which it wasn't), it would still be the wrong avenue for getting your money back.

16 hours ago, thekeemo said:

its annoying but doesnt cost the owner anything and if its opened up there are restocking fees.

Just an FYI, not every retailer charges a restocking fee - it depends on the country and the particular retailer. Some retailers, in certain locations (Canada, for example), are allowed to resell open boxed items at full price, as long as the item "appears" unused, despite the package clearly being opened.


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4 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

A Chargeback is NOT THE SAME as a Refund. A chargeback is when you dispute the payment with your payment provider (Eg: Credit Card or PayPal). You can only do so in a few situations, such as you didn't authorize the payment (Eg: Let's say your ISP charges you double by accident one month), or when someone steals your payment information and charges a bunch of stuff, or when the Merchant tries to scam you (Sends you a DOA item and refuses to exchange it, or just refuses to send the item at all, etc).

Thanks for that :)  The whole post was great but especially this part, since I was using the wrong term out of laziness :P


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19 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

 

Just an FYI, not every retailer charges a restocking fee - it depends on the country and the particular retailer. Some retailers, in certain locations (Canada, for example), are allowed to resell open boxed items at full price, as long as the item "appears" unused, despite the package clearly being opened.

Yes it is up to the store. Sometimes they sell it for full price and charge a fee. Sometimes they do neither.


Thats that. If you need to get in touch chances are you can find someone that knows me that can get in touch.

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20 hours ago, KenJimmY said:

if it was , she's doing parenting wrong

you're a parent who is perfect so you would know.


New to the forum! Treat me well please :3 as I am a noob

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Newegg

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