AMD Computex 2016 - Polaris and Zen Revealed

[ivan134]

23 minutes ago, Belgarathian said:

I kind of agree with you here, but I have to say for a $398 CF solution beating the $699 1080 @ 50% utilisation is pretty impressive non-the-less. It is only one game though, so it would be interesting to see how this scales to other games (AotS has always been heavy on async compute). 

That is what is so funny about his rambling. In his fan boy mind, a 1080 losing to $400 worth of gpus with low utilization is a win for Nvidia. 

[bcredeur97]

@AlwaysFSX I'm assuming you were paying attention to all this. I was too busy car shopping. 

 

Can you give me a TL;DR on this whole situation?

[AlwaysFSX]

1 minute ago, Belgarathian said:

I kind of agree with you here, but I have to say for a $398 CF solution beating the $699 1080 @ 50% utilisation is pretty impressive non-the-less. It is only one game though, so it would be interesting to see how this scales to other games (AotS has always been heavy on async compute). 

I'm just incredibly skeptical because it's one very cherry picked benchmark and it shows AMD can't even take the time to put development in to a single driver for one benchmark. I'd be impressed if they showed the actual performance of the cards. Nvidia might skew results a bit but they don't just go "look at the performance you can get" like AMD just blatantly did.

2 minutes ago, Starelementpoke said:

I have little to no knowledge on how scaling works in multi-gpu setups. Why is it bad if the 2 cards are running at 51%?

Because two card solutions should always be running at 99% load on both cards. Not 50%. You're not getting the full performance out of either card.

[Belgarathian]

22 minutes ago, Starelementpoke said:

I have little to no knowledge on how scaling works in multi-gpu setups. Why is it bad if the 2 cards are running at 51%?

I don't know why people are comparing utilisation and scaling to one another. 

 

An example of scaling is if one card runs at 100FPS, so if we have 100% scaling two cards would run at 200FPS. This is not usually the case, so as we add more cards we have more driver overhead (to manage how graphics are being delivered from multiple cards to the display) so when we add the second card, this time it only runs at 180FPS meaning that we have 80% scaling. This will decrease as we add more cards into the loop. 

 

Utilisation on the other hand is the ability to use 100% of the capacity of the component available. If you can't use 100% it usually means that the program isn't intensive enough, or there is a bottle-neck somewhere in the system. 

[Starelementpoke]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

because why not run at 100%?  The FPS could be higher

No, I mean that if each of them are running at essentially 50%, shouldn't 1 of them running at 100% be just as good?

[AlwaysFSX]

3 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

@AlwaysFSX I'm assuming you were paying attention to all this. I was too busy car shopping. 

 

Can you give me a TL;DR on this whole situation?

I can't because my brain was literally melting at AMD's marketing decisions.

 

Oh and I'm a biased piece of shit so ask someone that isn't.

[Energycore]

1 minute ago, AlwaysFSX said:

I can't because my brain was literally melting at AMD's marketing decisions.

Their Marketing needs an overhaul for sure. As for making a purchase decision, better wait for launch day.

[RagnarokDel]

42 minutes ago, EarthboundHero said:

My 390 can already run Doom Ultra 60+ FPS.

1080p?

38 minutes ago, Juanse said:

Well, they don't look the same, go back and check, you'll notice what I mean

I think that's just weather being different. You might be right about shadows tho

[EarthboundHero]

1 minute ago, RagnarokDel said:

1080p?

Yep

[bcredeur97]

anyone can give me a TL;DR on the event and why people are complaining?

[Energycore]

Just now, bcredeur97 said:

anyone can give me a TL;DR on the event and why people are complaining?

> AMD showed Polaris, single 6-pin connector, $200 price point and two versions: 4/8GB GDDR5.

> They showed an Ashes of the Singularity benchmark, 2 480s vs 1 1080, the 480s were getting better framerates.

> Actually, looking at both benchmark runs reveals that the 2x480 benchmark run had the graphical details turned down compared to 1080. This is what pissed us off.

> Then they talked about APUs and Zen, pretty much skimmed those parts.

[Energycore]

Just now, ONOTech said:

It needs more than an overhaul.

 

Lisa Su basically confirmed other Polaris unites ($100-$300), yet they only showed the RX 480...in CFX...in a DX12 game that favors AMD hardware. 

 

When it came down to Zen, they showed a five second clip and basically confirmed the whole 8 C/16 T that we've known since late 2015.

 

Honestly, I've seen interviews give more information than this. It was a let down. There's a reason nVidia pulls the hype - because they understand how to market. It's beyond me why they wouldn't display the best of the best and have actual businessmen present and market their products at Computex - one of the world's largest computer conventions.

 

It was their shot and it was very underwhelming. Sigh. I wish them the best and I don't have doubts that P10 will perform, but honestly, this was disappointing.

The audience agrees with you.

 

And we had no RX 480 single benchmarks, no comparison to 380/X or 390/X, no overclocking temps with the fans at 100%

[Clanscorpia]

3 minutes ago, Energycore said:

 

> Actually, looking at both benchmark runs reveals that the 2x480 benchmark run had the graphical details turned down compared to 1080. This is what pissed us off.

 

Where. The difference was just colour, which someone else already explained

[RagnarokDel]

43 minutes ago, jjar35 said:

I swear AMD did the same thing last year with a driver but I can remember which one it was since I use nVidia I just remember hearing a lot about it.

Nvidia did it 2-3 times in a few years

18 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

because why not run at 100%?  The FPS could be higher

Maybe they didnt want to do too much misleading unlike Nvidia.

"2x 480 running at 100%= 50% more performance then a 1080"

 

[Energycore]

1 minute ago, Clanscorpia said:

Where. The difference was just colour, which someone else already explained

This post has pictures of every benchmark scene. Judge for yourself.

 

 

[Big-G]

1 hour ago, hex4 said:

RX 480 Premium VR 200 dollars.. Game over nVIDIA.

So excluding the other costs involved with VR setups... what's the VR adoption rate like?

 

1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Did he just say "the goal of bringing console-class gaming to PC"?

Bwahahahahahahahahaha... sorry couldn't resist... console gimping has just been confirmed...

 

51 minutes ago, hex4 said:

2 RX 480's in crossfire for 500 bucks deliver higher FPS than GTX 1080 and only 50% GPU used, he mentioned that drivers will be worked for dual 480 solutions, this is big news considering how usually drivers are their after thought.

That's a lot of assumptions without benchmarks to back it up. For those not interested in VR... how's the micro-stutter and lack of CF profile support going to be improved?

 

34 minutes ago, Juanse said:

Look at the snow and the shadows, there's snow in some parts where there aren't in the other one

O hell yes... that's so obvious... the right has more detail and definition...

 

32 minutes ago, hex4 said:

It's contrast, are you seriously this inept in making out colour differences to actual graphical differences?

It also looks like this game uses different time of day and the AI are random, frame by frame the whole scene is different.

Seriously? That's definitely not contrast, but detail... I'd take my own advise if I were you then...

 

25 minutes ago, EvilNeo said:

maybe they'd say that we all misheard him and they'd release one GPU that holds the power of two RX480

Still needs CF to operate the two GPU's

 

24 minutes ago, hex4 said:

ZEN.......

Always Zen... never Now...

 

At the end of this all... I just see a product that will compete with the proposed/rumored GTX 1060 and possibly win due to price...

[bcredeur97]

4 minutes ago, Energycore said:

> AMD showed Polaris, single 6-pin connector, $200 price point and two versions: 4/8GB GDDR5.

> They showed an Ashes of the Singularity benchmark, 2 480s vs 1 1080, the 480s were getting better framerates.

> Actually, looking at both benchmark runs reveals that the 2x480 benchmark run had the graphical details turned down compared to 1080. This is what pissed us off.

> Then they talked about APUs and Zen, pretty much skimmed those parts.

they really ruined a benchmark like that? Sigh...

 

Well, even though Im in the market for a new GPU to replace my aging 6950/6970 CF setup, I will wait for third party benchmarks to make a decision on what to get. (I always do this anyway)

 

why no 490(x) and/or fury "2"? Seems weird to me that they would start with a card that isn't the top of the line. 

 

Wonder if zen will be any good, I have my doubts.

[Belgarathian]

12 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

I'm just incredibly skeptical because it's one very cherry picked benchmark and it shows AMD can't even take the time to put development in to a single driver for one benchmark. I'd be impressed if they showed the actual performance of the cards. Nvidia might skew results a bit but they don't just go "look at the performance you can get" like AMD just blatantly did.

Because two card solutions should always be running at 99% load on both cards. Not 50%. You're not getting the full performance out of either card.

50% utilisation has nothing to do with the drivers... if it was at 99% and 63 FPS, and with driver tweaks could get 70 FPS then it would be a driver issue. 

[hex4]

1 minute ago, GidonsClaw said:

So excluding the other costs involved with VR setups... what's the VR adoption rate like?

 

Bwahahahahahahahahaha... sorry couldn't resist... console gimping has just been confirmed...

 

That's a lot of assumptions without benchmarks to back it up. For those not interested in VR... how's the micro-stutter and lack of CF profile support going to be improved?

 

O hell yes... that's so obvious... the right has more detail and definition...

 

Seriously? That's definitely not contrast, but detail... I'd take my own advise if I were you then...

 

Still needs CF to operate the two GPU's

 

Always Zen... never Now...

 

At the end of this all... I just see a product that will compete with the proposed/rumored GTX 1060 and possibly win due to price...

nVIDIA has the GTX 1080 for you, that card with a 599 MSRP in dollars, suddenly 950 dollars in UK.. go ahead, milk Jens shiny stick.

[Energycore]

1 minute ago, bcredeur97 said:

they really ruined a benchmark like that? Sigh...

 

Well, even though Im in the market for a new GPU to replace my aging 6950/6970 CF setup, I will wait for third party benchmarks to make a decision on what to get. (I always do this anyway)

 

why no 490(x) and/or fury "2"? Seems weird to me that they would start with a card that isn't the top of the line. 

 

Wonder if zen will be any good, I have my doubts.

They made Vega, the new architecture supporting HBM2, for the 490 / fury 2. Those will come as early as october.

[TidaLWaveZ]

That conference was brutal. Not only did AMD show up late to the party, but they didn't bring any booze. 

[RagnarokDel]

27 minutes ago, AlexTheRose said:

I’m sitting here reading through this thread, wondering why everyone seems to think that most people are going to be Crossfiring these cards together. Considering it’s $200, I’d gander most people would only be buying one!

buy one now and buy another one, used when it starts to fall flat

[bcredeur97]

1 minute ago, Energycore said:

They made Vega, the new architecture supporting HBM2, for the 490 / fury 2. Those will come as early as october.

Ah I gotcha. Didn't realize polaris was for the (mid tier?) stuff.

[hex4]

1 minute ago, bcredeur97 said:

Ah I gotcha. Didn't realize polaris was for the (mid tier?) stuff.

Yeah Polaris is mid tier, but to be honest anyone at 1080P like myself, this is hardly mid tier lol.

[Energycore]

1 minute ago, hex4 said:

Yeah Polaris is mid tier, but to be honest anyone at 1080P like myself, this is hardly mid tier lol.

Agreed, the 480 has the potential to max out 1080p unless we get very demanding new games this season.