Microsoft Hits a New Low - Pressing Close Will Now Install Windows 10

[Apathetik]

6 minutes ago, shermantanker said:

Why on earth would I want to downgrade to linux ? Me personally, I could never get any real work done. Plus there is old the old DirectX games you could never play on Linux.

Despite my hate for Steam. I do hope they continue to make improvements to Steam for Linux that will help mitigate this concern.

 

5 minutes ago, Majestic said:

I think these shenanigans are only the beginning...

 

Why do you think they're so eager to get everyone onto a singular platform...

I have to agree with this. If they end up pissing off as many people as they are with their current nonsense. And it doesn't severely impact their bottom line. I have a feeling they'll get more bold and start giving less fucks (if they even have any left to give) in the future.

 

1 minute ago, shermantanker said:

Because it's cheaper and easier to support a single platform. It's all about money, and there is nothing wrong with Microsoft wanting to make money. That is their job, provide a service people want and sell it. Yes, some of the practices on upgrades have been all over the place, and are borderline unethical in some cases. But in the long run everyone is better off on a newer platform for incompatibilities sake.

Yes, generally speaking it is easier and less expensive to support a single platform, than to support multiple platforms. But I would like to point out your slightly flawed logic. "It's all about money, and there is nothing wrong with Microsoft wanting to make money." I will agree, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a "For Profit" company, trying to make money. But the one thing I think you're overlooking. Is that the upgrade to Windows 10 is free.

 

Do you honestly think that a "For Profit" company is going to give away it's "Newer and better" operating system for free, without gaining something in return? On top of which, if it truly is so much better and amazing (for the record, I'm not saying that it ISN'T better, that will largely depend on the person). Do you think there would be a need for them to do all of the shady things they've been doing to try and FORCE people to use it? 

 

To give a little perspective on that. Imagine that Intel decided to give everyone an upgrade from their old architecture i3/i5/i7 to their newest i3/i5/i7 counterpart for free. Do you think they'd have to force people to take those? There'd be a waiting list to get an upgrade. 

 

Just a little food for thought.

[dalekphalm]

20 minutes ago, Weird Face said:

"No means yes" is apparently Microsoft's philosophy.

 

On a more serious note, my workplace uses shared Windows 7-based computers to run specialized software to operate specialized equipment. Windows 10 upgrade nag popups have been appearing and my co-workers generally close or ignore them whenever they appear, so this is going to create some incredibly major, apocalypse-level problems if someone X'es out of the window and inadvertently causes a Windows 10 upgrade to happen.

In a normal business environment, the computers would be joined to a domain. When joined to a domain, the computers will not be prompted to upgrade to Windows 10 (Source: We have ~150 computers running Windows 7 on our Domain, and not one prompted us to upgrade - we have since manually upgraded many of them though).

 

If your work computers are not running on a Domain (Eg: Using Workgroups instead), then your IT department is responsible for making sure that the Windows 10 upgrade is disabled (Seriously, installing the GWX utility takes a few seconds and is very easy).

 

If your company doesn't have an IT department... well... then they're at much bigger risk then just upgrading to Windows 10 by accident.

 

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I (sadly) don't think they can be sued for this.

The Internet Explorer lawsuit was based on Microsoft breaking the law in various ways to kill of their competitors during "the browser wars". For example Microsoft threatened OEMs that if they made deals with Netscape they would no longer be allowed to sell computers with Windows installed.

 

 

Their push for Windows 10 has absolutely nothing to do with "it's easier to support a single platform".

Microsoft has to support Windows 7 until 2020 regardless of how many/few people use it. Same thing with Windows 8 (except for that it's until 2023).

They will still have to develop updates for the older operating systems.

While I agree with your overall sentiment, I believe Microsoft's motivation (for better or worse) is to prevent another "Windows XP" situation, where ~35%-50% of your installed userbase is using a 13+ year old OS, that is vastly less secure and outdated compared to newer standard technologies, and many of them simply refuse to upgrade, or even have an upgrade strategy in place (Big businesses were especially guilty of this, hence why XP's EOL Extended Support cutoff date was pushed back, like what, a half dozen times?).

[shermantanker]

9 minutes ago, Majestic said:

As a customer, I really don't give a flying fuck if i'm not being a big nuisance on Microsoft's update efficiency. Companies should serve the customer, not the other way around. This type of aggressive behaviour is definitely the former... 

 

I rolled onto Win10 and I think it's hugely offensive everytime I use it. Use the calculator "DID YOU LIKE THIS APP?". Just makes me want to buy a win7 licence on reddit just to spite them.

 

People seem to have this erroneous idea that companies are only there to make money. Wrong, they're there to sell a decent product for a decent price. And perhaps make a nice bit of sideprofit to improve said product. Nowhere is it stated you should make enough money to buy a small island in order to rank as succesful.

People go into business and start companies to make money. They developed a product they think people, and they sell it for a profit. Some have different methods then others. Some have better margins then others, and some don't. Some make it more ethically, and some don't. But in the end it is all about making money, and that is their only reason to exist. If there was no money to be made I can guarantee you Microsoft would look elsewhere, because they are a for profit company through and through.

[Majestic]

2 minutes ago, shermantanker said:

People go into business and start companies to make money. They developed a product they think people, and they sell it for a profit. Some have different methods then others. Some have better margins then others, and some don't. Some make it more ethically, and some don't. But in the end it is all about making money, and that is their only reason to exist. If there was no money to be made I can guarantee you Microsoft would look elsewhere, because they are a for profit company through and through.

True, but when money factors in too much with considerations, you end up with this.

[Apathetik]

5 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

While I agree with your overall sentiment, I believe Microsoft's motivation (for better or worse) is to prevent another "Windows XP" situation, where ~35%-50% of your installed userbase is using a 13+ year old OS, that is vastly less secure and outdated compared to newer standard technologies, and many of them simply refuse to upgrade, or even have an upgrade strategy in place (Big businesses were especially guilty of this, hence why XP's EOL Extended Support cutoff date was pushed back, like what, a half dozen times?).

I agree that the EOL situation with XP has definitely effected the way they consider upcoming deadlines for their operating systems. But we are still ~4 years out from that and even if I were to go the route of the devils advocate and assume this is the ONLY reason they're making this push (which it isn't lol). I still don't believe the tactics they've been employing are justified.

[sof006]

I have no issues with Windows 10 I think its a great OS but this is definitely NOT the right way to get people to upgrade. You'll just end up pissing people off and potentially breaking their PC's.

 

I have had it where people have upgraded to Windows 10 and its caused many problems as the hardware isn't properly supported or certain programs aren't supported. Many older laptops will not be supported by Windows 10 for example. Very bad move on Microsofts part. Disagree with this completely.

[Mew]

5 minutes ago, shermantanker said:

People go into business and start companies to make money. They developed a product they think people, and they sell it for a profit. Some have different methods then others. Some have better margins then others, and some don't. Some make it more ethically, and some don't. But in the end it is all about making money, and that is their only reason to exist. If there was no money to be made I can guarantee you Microsoft would look elsewhere, because they are a for profit company through and through.

But the thing is generally companies don't want to risk losing their customers in order to make a quick buck. They have every right to make money, but they should not force their customers against their own will. 

[shermantanker]

7 minutes ago, Apathetik said:

Despite my hate for Steam. I do hope they continue to make improvements to Steam for Linux that will help mitigate this concern.

 

I have to agree with this. If they end up pissing off as many people as they are with their current nonsense. And it doesn't severely impact their bottom line. I have a feeling they'll get more bold and start giving less fucks (if they even have any left to give) in the future.

 

Yes, generally speaking it is easier and less expensive to support a single platform, than to support multiple platforms. But I would like to point out your slightly flawed logic. "It's all about money, and there is nothing wrong with Microsoft wanting to make money." I will agree, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a "For Profit" company, trying to make money. But the one thing I think you're overlooking. Is that the upgrade to Windows 10 is free.

 

Do you honestly think that a "For Profit" company is going to give away it's "Newer and better" operating system for free, without gaining something in return? On top of which, if it truly is so much better and amazing (for the record, I'm not saying that it ISN'T better, that will largely depend on the person). Do you think there would be a need for them to do all of the shady things they've been doing to try and FORCE people to use it? 

 

To give a little perspective on that. Imagine that Intel decided to give everyone an upgrade from their old architecture i3/i5/i7 to their newest i3/i5/i7 counterpart for free. Do you think they'd have to force people to take those? There'd be a waiting list to get an upgrade. 

 

Just a little food for thought.

By giving it out free they gain more customers, and can make money elsewhere. And a big part of it was their push with the app store, now I doubt they are making much on that damn store. But they are still collecting licensing fees left and right, and the free upgrade was a timed window anyway.

[Mew]

1 minute ago, sof006 said:

I have no issues with Windows 10 I think its a great OS but this is definitely NOT the right way to get people to upgrade. You'll just end up pissing people off and potentially breaking their PC's.

 

I have had it where people have upgraded to Windows 10 and its caused many problems as the hardware isn't properly supported or certain programs aren't supported. Many older laptops will not be supported by Windows 10 for example. Very bad move on Microsofts part. Disagree with this completely.

Well, the upgrade assistant does verify hardware compatibility before saying your computer is schedule for an upgrade, or at least it did before. 

[shermantanker]

3 minutes ago, kurahk7 said:

But the thing is generally the company doesn't want to risk losing their customers in order to make a quick buck. They have every right to make money, but they should not force their customers against their own will. 

I do agree with you. If you like at EA after the whole BF4 debacle they had tons of bad press, their stock tanked a ridicules amount, and hurt their reputation with consumers badly. All of which affected their bottom line. Now looking back I can't think of anything crazy they have done, all of their games since have performed well, they have had great long term support for BF4 and even free content. Companies change when they loose money... well "mostly".

[othertomperson]

1 hour ago, spwath said:

Why not just get windows 10?
Its newer than 7 and will have better future support and is free for now...

Because it's really buggy. Half the time I boot my PC I need to immediately restart because there's no audio until I do. It bluescreens with much greater frequency that Windows 7 did, Windows Explorer crashes much more often than it used to, the Start Menu is constantly breaking. This can be "minor" breaks, such as the colour not loading correctly so that the text and all of the buttons are not visible, or clicking anything on the taskbar can just not work, Cortana crashes quite often (despite being set to not even run), and when it does there is a massive window that is constantly on top requiring me to logout and log back in to enable it to restart (again, even though it is set to never be running in the first place).

 

I'd list the telemetry and spyware shit Windows 10 is full of too, but that's long since been retroactively shoved onto Windows 7, 8 and 8.1.

 

As soon as I can I'm dumping Windows entirely.

[Commander Llama]

What do you do... when your own operating system is malware?

[Mew]

1 minute ago, Commander Llama said:

What do you do... when your own operating system is malware?

Install more malware to remove it.

[shermantanker]

10 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

Because it's really buggy. Half the time I boot my PC I need to immediately restart because there's no audio until I do. It bluescreens with much greater frequency that Windows 7 did, Windows Explorer crashes much more often than it used to, the Start Menu is constantly breaking. This can be "minor" breaks, such as the colour not loading correctly so that the text and all of the buttons are not visible, or clicking anything on the taskbar can just not work, Cortana crashes quite often (despite being set to not even run), and when it does there is a massive window that is constantly on top requiring me to logout and log back in to enable it to restart (again, even though it is set to never be running in the first place).

 

I'd list the telemetry and spyware shit Windows 10 is full of too, but that's long since been retroactively shoved onto Windows 7, 8 and 8.1.

 

As soon as I can I'm dumping Windows entirely.

I can't think of any weird bugs I have had with it, and have been using it since a month before release.

[Mew]

2 minutes ago, shermantanker said:

I can't think of any weird bugs I have had with it, and have been using it since a month before release.

I have one. Start menu sometimes doesn't work. Pressing windows logo x sometimes yields nothing.

[shermantanker]

1 minute ago, kurahk7 said:

I have one. Start menu sometimes doesn't work. Pressing windows logo x sometimes yields nothing.

Maybe i'm just lucky lol. Only issues I have had as of late are corrupted Nvidia drivers.

[ChineseChef]

I am genuinely curious how much will change with the OS once it isn't free anymore.  And people can't use the "you can't complain because its free" argument.  And I somehow doubt MS will just suddenly stop forcing updates to W10.  I am betting the forced update software will stick around for a while after the free date, just to try to trick or force some more people into buying it out of laziness or ignorance.  Though, it is kind of hard to trick people into spending $100+ on a whim.  Though I could easily see the W10 upgrade process becoming a form of ransomware.

 

I also wonder if there will be more recourse for people who purchase it to remove things and modify it.  Such as all the telemetry and tracking and online stuff.

[vanished]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

People who use Windows 7 and 8 are probably familiar with this prompt by now:

 

Well, no, not actually.  Unless they're completely clueless there's no reason for them to have been seeing that unless they wanted to.

 

But...

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

 

The malicious thing about this prompt is that lots of users are reporting that pressing the X in the top right corner on this new prompt will schedule your computer to install Windows 10.

 

That's just insane.  I can't think of any way anyone could possibly thing this was OK.  They've been doing inappropriate things for far too long now but this is just a whole new level like I never imagined.  you are right that it's just like something a virus would do.

[PlayStation 2]

1 hour ago, spwath said:

Another thing, I can defend it. It says "This pc is scedualed to update at this time" so that means, the pc will update, so just xing out wont change it, that makes sence.

It's still underhanded. Sure, you could make the defense that you should read the terms and conditions or whatever, but what if it's buried really cleverly?

[dalekphalm]

19 minutes ago, kurahk7 said:

Well, the upgrade assistant does verify hardware compatibility before saying your computer is schedule for an upgrade, or at least it did before. 

It does do a hardware check, but I'm not convinced of the thoroughness of said check. I've had several computers (One laptop, that I'm using right now, and an LGA775 desktop HTPC) that became buggy, unstable, or slower with the Windows 10 upgrade.

 

The laptop became a buggy mess, and I ended up doing a fresh install of Windows 7 onto it. And before I did the Windows 10 upgrade, I fresh installed Windows 7 anyway, so it wasn't due to old bloated OS being upgraded. After going back to Windows 7, the laptop runs significantly better.

 

On the desktop side of things, my HTPC is running quite old hardware, yet still got the Windows 10 upgrade notification. I upgraded to Windows 10, and the machine has been significantly slower and more sluggish. Watching YouTube and Netflix is stuttery (Shomi is smooth though, oddly), and watching a video file locally is even more sluggish (The thing is running on an SSD, as well). This HTPC was running Windows 8.1 before, flawlessly. I will likely revert to 8.1 on this machine as well.

 

On the contrary, my Gaming Desktop upgraded to Windows 10 flawlessly (Was originally running LGA1366), and I ran the insider preview since day 1. I since upgraded my hardware to Z97, and did a fresh install of Windows 10, and it still works good.

 

At work, we've upgraded about ~75 computers from Windows 7 to 10, so far, and 99% of them went flawless (Aside from having to change the occasional setting, or reinstall some particular program). Only one went full belly up, and it's running highly specialized MicroFiche/MicroFilm scanning hardware - in this case, we simply had to perform a fresh install of Windows 10 (Instead of an Upgrade install), and reinstall all the software, and it is now running fine.

2 minutes ago, shermantanker said:

I can't think of any weird bugs I have had with it, and have been using it since a month before release.

It honestly depends on your specific hardware config. In many cases (most, probably), people have zero issues, no weird bugs, no glitches or slowdown, etc.

 

However, some people experience loads of issues. I've experienced both. If it went flawless for every single user, I could justify the forced upgrades, but people do experience bugs and issues, even if they are the vast tiny minority of people.

 

I think Microsoft went too far with the forced upgrades. I still think Windows 10 is overall great, and it has super awesome potential (Looking at the big update that's supposed to be coming), but they went too far pushing it.

[Mew]

6 minutes ago, ChineseChef said:

I am genuinely curious how much will change with the OS once it isn't free anymore.  And people can't use the "you can't complain because its free" argument.  And I somehow doubt MS will just suddenly stop forcing updates to W10.  I am betting the forced update software will stick around for a while after the free date, just to try to trick or force some more people into buying it out of laziness or ignorance.  Though, it is kind of hard to trick people into spending $100+ on a whim.  Though I could easily see the W10 upgrade process becoming a form of ransomware.

 

I also wonder if there will be more recourse for people who purchase it to remove things and modify it.  Such as all the telemetry and tracking and online stuff.

They could target those that have a credit card tied to their Microsoft Accounts and pull the same thing- Click the x in the top right corner and you get charged $100+ for a Windows 10 upgrade. Suffice to say, many people won't be very happy about that.

[Kimmers]

Was never a fan of Windows after I experienced the joys of OSX. However, I still use it to play games as it has the best support in that segment.

[othertomperson]

26 minutes ago, shermantanker said:

I can't think of any weird bugs I have had with it, and have been using it since a month before release.

And just like that the issues I and many other people have had just disappeared! What a wonderful insight. Thank you.

[dalekphalm]

18 minutes ago, kurahk7 said:

They could target those that have a credit card tied to their Microsoft Accounts and pull the same thing- Click the x in the top right corner and you get charged $100+ for a Windows 10 upgrade. Suffice to say, many people won't be very happy about that.

Credit Card laws and cardholder agreements are generally too strict to allow something like what you describe to happen without consequences.

 

At worst, the person would simply need to put a chargeback on their credit card for unauthorized payments.

 

I do not think Microsoft will do that at all. I think as soon as the deadline for the free Upgrade hits, they will disable the notifier (It likely already has the code built in to match against date, and auto disable). After that, they may have some sort of app that will allow you to "easily" purchase an upgrade, but I don't believe this hypothetical app will be in your face at all.

[Nineshadow]

Well, in the first one they ask you to upgrade to Windows 10, and in the last one they tell you they scheduled an "important update" which will upgrade your computer to Windows 10. It does make sense that closing the window won't cancel the upgrade in that scenario, even if it is bad attitude from Microsoft's part.