Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
DocSwag

AMD Zen Initially only Coming With 8-Core Dies-8 Core and 6 Core Zen CPUs to be the First to Hit the Market

Recommended Posts

Just now, patrickjp93 said:

 

Anandtech proved AMD wasn't going by torture tests, but no one actually knows the metric. It does line up rather well with heavy gaming workloads though.

the toms hardware slides posted in this thread earlier showed that power draw in torture tests were like.. one or two watts under rated TDP. 

 

EDIT: in this document, Intel have gotten details from AMD about it.. apparently. 

screencap: 

kRbRo8e.png


New favorite song, sit back and enjoy.

reviews: JBL J33i   M50s   SRH440   Soundmagic PL50           

my FX8320

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
4 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Having dedicated FPUs and 256-bit vector units per core is not going to come cheap electrically or thermally, and AMD has said the TDP will be 95W.

 

Anandtech proved AMD wasn't going by torture tests, but no one actually knows the metric. It does line up rather well with heavy gaming workloads though.

I realize that, but I'd imagine Jim Keller knows what he's saying and so AMD has probably made optimization elsewhere. Plus the move to 14nm FinFET is gonna help a lot.


Make sure to quote me or tag me when responding to me, or I might not know you replied! Examples:

 

Do this:

Quote

And make sure you do it by hitting the quote button at the bottom left of my post, and not the one inside the editor!

Or this:

@DocSwag

 

Buy whatever product is best for you, not what product is "best" for the market.

 

Interested in computer architecture? Still in middle or high school? P.M. me!

 

I love computer hardware and feel free to ask me anything about that (or phones). I especially like SSDs. But please do not ask me anything about Networking, programming, command line stuff, or any relatively hard software stuff. I know next to nothing about that.

 

Compooters:

Spoiler

Desktop:

Spoiler

CPU: i7 6700k, CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3, Motherboard: MSI Z170a KRAIT GAMING, RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws 4 Series 4x4gb DDR4-2666 MHz, Storage: SanDisk SSD Plus 240gb + OCZ Vertex 180 480 GB + Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 7200 RPM, Video Card: EVGA GTX 970 SSC, Case: Fractal Design Define S, Power Supply: Seasonic Focus+ Gold 650w Yay, Keyboard: Logitech G710+, Mouse: Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum, Headphones: B&O H9i, Monitor: LG 29um67 (2560x1080 75hz freesync)

Home Server:

Spoiler

CPU: Pentium G4400, CPU Cooler: Stock, Motherboard: MSI h110l Pro Mini AC, RAM: Hyper X Fury DDR4 1x8gb 2133 MHz, Storage: PNY CS1311 120gb SSD + two Segate 4tb HDDs in RAID 1, Video Card: Does Intel Integrated Graphics count?, Case: Fractal Design Node 304, Power Supply: Seasonic 360w 80+ Gold, Keyboard+Mouse+Monitor: Does it matter?

Laptop (I use it for school):

Spoiler

Surface book 2 13" with an i7 8650u, 8gb RAM, 256 GB storage, and a GTX 1050

And if you're curious (or a stalker) I have a Just Black Pixel 2 XL 64gb

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

 

The difference is still 15% on the whole, 22% if just counting SRAM. At 10nm Samsung gets a 5% density boost over Intel's 14nm.

In what SRAM config? Their high density, low voltage or high performance? Because they are all different in size. TSMC and Samsung also has different SRAM sizes on their 16nm FF/16nm FF+ and 14nm FF LPE and LPP.

 

Remember size is less interesting if performance is degredated too much. So for Intel to use their high density 0.0499 µm2 SRAm makes little sense, if their High Performance 0.0706 µm2 SRAM are much better in performance. Both are 14nm FF based btw.

 

That being said, we know AMD are much better at compressing architecture than Intel. So does it matter that Intel's process is 15% more dense, if AMD's architecture is e.g.30% denser?

4 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

i hope intel finally fixes their naming scheme and makes i3 a 4 core i5 a 6 core and i7 an 8 core.

No gamer should ever buy an i3 as is, as most games will be quad core min spec. So yeah, Intel needs to get their act together. That is also what Zen should get us.


Watching Intel have competition is like watching a headless chicken trying to get out of a mine field

CPU: Intel I7 4790K@4.6 with NZXT X31 AIO; MOTHERBOARD: ASUS Z97 Maximus VII Ranger; RAM: 8 GB Kingston HyperX 1600 DDR3; GFX: ASUS R9 290 4GB; CASE: Lian Li v700wx; STORAGE: Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD; Samsung 850 500GB SSD; Various old Seagates; PSU: Corsair RM650; MONITOR: 2x 20" Dell IPS; KEYBOARD/MOUSE: Logitech K810/ MX Master; OS: Windows 10 Pro

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Notional said:

 

i3 is a quad.


Location: Kaunas, Lithuania, Europe, Earth, Solar System, Local Interstellar Cloud, Local Bubble, Gould Belt, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Milky Way subgroup, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Laniakea, Pisces–Cetus Supercluster Complex, Observable universe, Universe.

Spoiler

Xeon 1230v2, B75 Pro3-M, 16GB Crucial Ballistix, Msi TF GTX760, Crucial M500, Seagate Barracuda 1TB, CM G550M, Fractal Arc Mini.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lauen said:

yes, but for games it's a quad


Location: Kaunas, Lithuania, Europe, Earth, Solar System, Local Interstellar Cloud, Local Bubble, Gould Belt, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Milky Way subgroup, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Laniakea, Pisces–Cetus Supercluster Complex, Observable universe, Universe.

Spoiler

Xeon 1230v2, B75 Pro3-M, 16GB Crucial Ballistix, Msi TF GTX760, Crucial M500, Seagate Barracuda 1TB, CM G550M, Fractal Arc Mini.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

i3 is a quad.

Intel disagrees with you:http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/core-i3-processor.html

 

Hyperthreads MIGHT fool a game to run, but it will run very badly. The 2 extra threads can only run on parts of the pipeline not occupied by the 2 primary threads. So if all 4 threads needs the same ressources at the same time, the game will crash and burn. So no an i3 is not at all useful for quad core min spec games.


Watching Intel have competition is like watching a headless chicken trying to get out of a mine field

CPU: Intel I7 4790K@4.6 with NZXT X31 AIO; MOTHERBOARD: ASUS Z97 Maximus VII Ranger; RAM: 8 GB Kingston HyperX 1600 DDR3; GFX: ASUS R9 290 4GB; CASE: Lian Li v700wx; STORAGE: Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD; Samsung 850 500GB SSD; Various old Seagates; PSU: Corsair RM650; MONITOR: 2x 20" Dell IPS; KEYBOARD/MOUSE: Logitech K810/ MX Master; OS: Windows 10 Pro

Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Notional said:

Engineering samples never run at full speed. They are there to test the architecture, not the Hz speed dictated by the node. Also you cannot compare a ZEN core to a Kabe Lake core for instance. There are way too many variables to change IPC/performance. We have to look at benchmarks first.

 

Knowing AMD, the lower TDPs are indeed either for laptops or engineering models.    Or, quite possibly the "2.5" or whatever are the Zen Opterons.  The first ones are probably going to be between 3 and 4.  Now, if they have actual gain they won't price them at 200 if they perform better than a 9590 at 5.0.  My experience between the 9370 and a 4790k, in my case/not every case, didn't have much of a performance gain outside of editing with both at nearly the same OC.  Now, if the Zen's perform that close in most areas to an i7, from Haswell on stock, then I can say they will be justified in a price between an i5 and an i7 from that line.  In USD a 4790k goes for like 330ish bucks, so pricing one at like 275 USD would be justifiable in their case.  But, we really don't know right now the truth of their performance quite yet.  I'd also like to see gaming benches over something like 3DMark as I've noticed that Firestrike doesn't exactly give us a true sense of real world application in gaming and every other task.  I'd like to see them do actual rendering, actual gaming in various situations, and so on between the two.


Bloodshed and the Fenris-Wolf:

| CPU:  Ryzen 9 3900x | CPU Cooler:  EKWB EK-AIO 360 D-RGB | Paste:  Kryonaut | Motherboard:  ASUS ROG x570 Crosshair VIII Hero (Wi-Fi) | RAM:  G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 | Boot Drive:  Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME | Storage Drives:  Crucial MX500 500 GB M.2-2280+Western Digital WD Blue 2 TB 2.5"+Toshiba N300 8 TB 3.5" 7200RPM+Toshiba X300 4 TB 3.5" | GPU:  ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 2080 Ti AMP Extreme Core | Case:  Lian Li O11 Dynamic XL ROG Certified (Black) with Corsair SP140 49.49 CFM 140 mm Fans 2-Pack+4x Cooler Master SickleFlow 120 V2 Reds added | PSU:  EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply w/CableMod E-Series Cable Kit (Black/Red) | Case Fans:  2 Corsair SP140 49.49 CFM 140 mm Fans | Displays:  BenQ PD2700U 27.0" 3840x2160 60 Hz+Asus TUF Gaming VG27AQ 27.0" 2560x1440 165 Hz+MSI Optix MAG322CR 31.5" 1920x1080 180 Hz | Mouse:  Corsair M65 RGB ELITE | Keyboard:  Ducky Shine 7 Blackout - MK Exclusive First Release - RGB LED Double Shot PBT Mechanical Keyboard with Silent Red Switches | Mousepad:  Gaya Entertainment Oversized Gaming Mousepad Doom | Audio:  AKG K712 PRO Headphones+Audio-Technica ATR2500-USB Cardioid Condenser USB Microphone+Kingston HyperX Cloud II 7.1 Channel Headset+iBasso IT01 Dynamic Driver Audiophile In-Ear Monitors/Earbuds (Black)+Pair of Mackie MR624s(came with stands+isolation pads) | OS:  Windows 10 Pro |



Bifröst(ROG Zephyrus M GU502):

| CPU:  i7-9750h | RAM:  32GB Dual Channel 2666mhz CL 19(Stock+Samsung 16GB DDR4 PC4-21300, 2666MHZ, 260 PIN SODIMM, 1.2V, CL 19 ) | Storage:  1TB SSD with Optane | GPU:  Nvidia RTX 2060 | Display:  144hz 3ms | Mouse:  Corsair M65 Pro |

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Notional said:

Intel disagrees with you:http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/core-i3-processor.html

 

Hyperthreads MIGHT fool a game to run, but it will run very badly. The 2 extra threads can only run on parts of the pipeline not occupied by the 2 primary threads. So if all 4 threads needs the same ressources at the same time, the game will crash and burn. So no an i3 is not at all useful for quad core min spec games.

Other than Arma 3 (which is a mess even on an i5), what games don't run well on an i3?


PSU Tier List | CoC

Gaming Build | FreeNAS Server

Spoiler

i5-4690k || Seidon 240m || GTX780 ACX || MSI Z97s SLI Plus || 8GB 2400mhz || 250GB 840 Evo || 1TB WD Blue || H440 (Black/Blue) || Windows 10 Pro || Dell P2414H & BenQ XL2411Z || Ducky Shine Mini || Logitech G502 Proteus Core

Spoiler

FreeNAS 9.3 - Stable || Xeon E3 1230v2 || Supermicro X9SCM-F || 32GB Crucial ECC DDR3 || 3x4TB WD Red (JBOD) || SYBA SI-PEX40064 sata controller || Corsair CX500m || NZXT Source 210.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Other than Arma 3 (which is a mess even on an i5), what games don't run well on an i3?

Rise of the Tomb Raider 


If you want to reply back to me or someone else USE THE QUOTE BUTTON!                                                      
Pascal laptops guide

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Notional said:

Hyperthreads MIGHT fool a game to run, but it will run very badly.

uh, based on what?


Location: Kaunas, Lithuania, Europe, Earth, Solar System, Local Interstellar Cloud, Local Bubble, Gould Belt, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Milky Way subgroup, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Laniakea, Pisces–Cetus Supercluster Complex, Observable universe, Universe.

Spoiler

Xeon 1230v2, B75 Pro3-M, 16GB Crucial Ballistix, Msi TF GTX760, Crucial M500, Seagate Barracuda 1TB, CM G550M, Fractal Arc Mini.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Castdeath97 said:

Rise of the Tomb Raider 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu0MWxQtAfU


Location: Kaunas, Lithuania, Europe, Earth, Solar System, Local Interstellar Cloud, Local Bubble, Gould Belt, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Milky Way subgroup, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Laniakea, Pisces–Cetus Supercluster Complex, Observable universe, Universe.

Spoiler

Xeon 1230v2, B75 Pro3-M, 16GB Crucial Ballistix, Msi TF GTX760, Crucial M500, Seagate Barracuda 1TB, CM G550M, Fractal Arc Mini.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Other than Arma 3 (which is a mess even on an i5), what games don't run well on an i3?

I don't keep up with i3 game benchmarks, so I wouldn't know. The issue is that games becomes more multithreaded as times go (some can use up to 8 threads now). I3's will have issues fast, especially if all 4 threads starts to clash.

 

Then again, if you have an i3 you probably don't have a great GPU either, so who knows. I just still feel sorry for all those poor bastards who bought Pentium anniversary editions (and later models), that are pure dual core. They should have gotten AMD CPU's instead. Because more and more games outright refuses to run on those chips.


Watching Intel have competition is like watching a headless chicken trying to get out of a mine field

CPU: Intel I7 4790K@4.6 with NZXT X31 AIO; MOTHERBOARD: ASUS Z97 Maximus VII Ranger; RAM: 8 GB Kingston HyperX 1600 DDR3; GFX: ASUS R9 290 4GB; CASE: Lian Li v700wx; STORAGE: Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD; Samsung 850 500GB SSD; Various old Seagates; PSU: Corsair RM650; MONITOR: 2x 20" Dell IPS; KEYBOARD/MOUSE: Logitech K810/ MX Master; OS: Windows 10 Pro

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

I remember digital foundry encounter a issue with it.


If you want to reply back to me or someone else USE THE QUOTE BUTTON!                                                      
Pascal laptops guide

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Castdeath97 said:

Rise of the Tomb Raider 

http://www.techspot.com/review/1128-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-benchmarks/page5.html

4 minutes ago, Notional said:

I don't keep up with i3 game benchmarks, so I wouldn't know. The issue is that games becomes more multithreaded as times go (some can use up to 8 threads now). I3's will have issues fast, especially if all 4 threads starts to clash.

In the future, no doubt. But for right now i3s are still perfectly good. There have been games that are able to run eight cores for a couple years now.


PSU Tier List | CoC

Gaming Build | FreeNAS Server

Spoiler

i5-4690k || Seidon 240m || GTX780 ACX || MSI Z97s SLI Plus || 8GB 2400mhz || 250GB 840 Evo || 1TB WD Blue || H440 (Black/Blue) || Windows 10 Pro || Dell P2414H & BenQ XL2411Z || Ducky Shine Mini || Logitech G502 Proteus Core

Spoiler

FreeNAS 9.3 - Stable || Xeon E3 1230v2 || Supermicro X9SCM-F || 32GB Crucial ECC DDR3 || 3x4TB WD Red (JBOD) || SYBA SI-PEX40064 sata controller || Corsair CX500m || NZXT Source 210.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DocSwag said:

I see what you are saying, but you are saying AMD will price Zen over 100 dollars below Intel's offering, or about 30% lower. I said just below Intel. I'm pretty sure just below doesn't mean 30% lower. I'm saying that AMD may price Zen, say, 40 dollars below Intel.

 

True, that is a good point. I am making the assumption Zen is good because AMD they are screwed if otherwise. However, it is true I might be wrong.

If it isn't cheaper than why will anyone give a shit?


If I had to buy a new CPU I would pick AMD If Zen were released but as it stands I would not buy an AMD CPU for $40 less than the equivalent Intel. Intel's quad cores are way overpriced. IMO. They should be around $120-160 not $180-250).

 

And then companies wonder why customers don't upgrade PC's frequently. Part of it is to do with cost and the other part is performance benefit they will get.

 


How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill

iPhone 8 Plus (Mid 2019 to present)

Samaritan XL (Early 2018 - present with 2019 GPU upgrade and 2020 RAM upgrade and 2020 HDD upgrade) - AMD Ryzen 7 1700X (8C/16T) , MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon, Corsair 32GB Vengeance LPX DDR4-2666 (2020) ,  Asus ROG Strix RX Vega 56 , Corsair RM850i PSU, Corsair H100i v2 CPU Cooler, Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SSD, Seagate BarraCuda 6TB HDD (2020) , NZXT S340 Elite, Corsair ML 120 Pro, Corsair ML 140 Pro

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ZetZet said:

yes, but then he said 6 core should cost 350-400 that doesnt make any sense. it should be 200.

Nope, by my math a 6 core zen will handily outperform a similar 4 core Intel CPU. Simply because the IPC is only expected to be about 10-15% below Skylake, and it has 2 more physical cores and 4 more threads. So yeah, a 6 core zen cpu would be worth about $350-$400.


Case: Thermaltake Versa H35 | CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700x (@4.0Ghz) Cooling: Cooler Master MasterLiquid Lite 240 | MOBO: Gigabyte AB350M-DS3H | RAM: Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 16GB (2x8GB) 3333Mhz | GPU: MSI ARMOR 8GB OC GTX 1070 | Storage: SAMSUNG 970 EVO 250GB, 1TB Seagate 2.5" 5400RPM | PSU: Corsair CX750M

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Castdeath97 said:

I remember digital foundry encounter a issue with it.

it's 750ti fucking up not the i3.


Location: Kaunas, Lithuania, Europe, Earth, Solar System, Local Interstellar Cloud, Local Bubble, Gould Belt, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Milky Way subgroup, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Laniakea, Pisces–Cetus Supercluster Complex, Observable universe, Universe.

Spoiler

Xeon 1230v2, B75 Pro3-M, 16GB Crucial Ballistix, Msi TF GTX760, Crucial M500, Seagate Barracuda 1TB, CM G550M, Fractal Arc Mini.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, 420istoday said:

Nope, by my math a 6 core zen will handily outperform a similar 4 core Intel CPU. Simply because the IPC is only expected to be about 10-15% below Skylake, and it has 2 more physical cores and 4 more threads. So yeah, a 6 core zen cpu would be worth about $350-$400.

Dude, you can´t say,¨by my math,¨ and not show your math.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lauen said:

the toms hardware slides posted in this thread earlier showed that power draw in torture tests were like.. one or two watts under rated TDP. 

 

EDIT: in this document, Intel have gotten details from AMD about it.. apparently. 

screencap: 

kRbRo8e.png

For Opterons, AMD was accurate. For FX and Athlon, they went with consumer-typical workloads.


Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

it's 750ti fucking up not the i3.

They literally say that the i3 is at 100% load.

8 minutes ago, Starelementpoke said:

Dude, you can´t say,¨by my math,¨ and not show your math.

If you have 4x Intel cores running 15% higher IPC than ZEN, then all else equal, the Intel should be 15% faster. If the ZEN has 6 cores instead of 4, ZEN would be 50% faster than a 4 core ZEN. That's a 35% performance increase on the ZEN in this example. If the ZEN has SMT and the i5 not, then that's an additional -5-30% performance increase (yes SMT can screw up things too).


Watching Intel have competition is like watching a headless chicken trying to get out of a mine field

CPU: Intel I7 4790K@4.6 with NZXT X31 AIO; MOTHERBOARD: ASUS Z97 Maximus VII Ranger; RAM: 8 GB Kingston HyperX 1600 DDR3; GFX: ASUS R9 290 4GB; CASE: Lian Li v700wx; STORAGE: Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD; Samsung 850 500GB SSD; Various old Seagates; PSU: Corsair RM650; MONITOR: 2x 20" Dell IPS; KEYBOARD/MOUSE: Logitech K810/ MX Master; OS: Windows 10 Pro

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Notional said:

They literally say that the i3 is at 100% load.

If you have 4x Intel cores running 15% higher IPC than ZEN, then all else equal, the Intel should be 15% faster. If the ZEN has 6 cores instead of 4, ZEN would be 50% faster than a 4 core ZEN. That's a 35% performance increase on the ZEN in this example. If the ZEN has SMT and the i5 not, then that's an additional -5-30% performance increase (yes SMT can screw up things too).

This is assuming a work load that takes advantage of using all cores.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×