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DocSwag

AMD Zen Initially only Coming With 8-Core Dies-8 Core and 6 Core Zen CPUs to be the First to Hit the Market

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Source: http://wccftech.com/amd-only-fabricating-octa-core-zen-x86-die/

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It appears that AMD will be sticking with an 8-core dies as far as the fabrication of Zen processors in the Summit Ridge platform is concerned. The mainstream desktop platform is expected to feature 8-core and 6-core variants with SMT and will not, initially, have any quad core or dual core options. On the other hand, the company is expected to launch Bristol Ridge with Quad Core and Dual Core flavors right off the bat.

Quote

A report by the Italian publication Bitsandchips.it reveals that AMD will initially only be using octa core dies in the fabrication process of Zen based processors. This method will be the optimal route to use in the production of its Summit Ridge processors because not only will it allow for cost savings (just one die) but will result in the initial wave of Zen x86 CPUs being exceptionally powerful. Since the company is going to be pitting the brand new architecture against Intel’s offerings, which has so far been ahead of the game, Octa-Core and Hexa-Core Zen processors with SMT should be able to compete effectively with their blue counterparts.

Keeping in mind how yield works, we are probably going to be looking at 8-Core and 6-Core flavors in Zen Summit Ridge platform. If the company runs into exceptionally bad yields, we might see some rare OEM spottings of 4-Core flavors as well – but that is unlikely. Once the dust settles after the initial wave, the company could decide to use different dies in the fabrication process of its future series – but for now, they appear to be sticking with an Octa-Core one. The company will be using the new AM4 socket which will allow it to unify its offerings across all platforms as well as house the new generation of Wraith Coolers. All in all, things are looking pretty good on the CPU side of things for AMD.

This is somewhat of a surprise. I was personally expecting 8,6, and 4 core Zen CPUs to come initially. Then again, this does kind of make sense, as now AMD only needs one die initially to work from. As well, this probably means AMD's 6 core Zen CPUs will be around 350-400 dollars as if they were priced higher AMD wouldn't have anything to compete with Intel down at the 300 dollar range. Keep in mind to take this with a grain of salt. This rumor was started by a site that cited no sources; they only stated they got this from their sources but said nothing about who or how they got the info. I wouldn't be too surprised if this is false and we will initially get 8,6, and 4 core Zen CPUs.


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If the 6 core is 300+ usd rip in pieces AMD.

 

It should be 200, direct competition for the i5. (if it even has the performance of an i5)


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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

If the 6 core is 300+ usd rip in pieces AMD.

 

It should be 200, direct competition for the i5. (if it even has the performance of an i5)

I disagree. If AMD did that, Intel would just lower prices right back at them. Sure, it will help us then, but AMD isn't stupid enough to end up getting their profit margins lower just to seem like a good deal for the first week. I personally believe that AMD is gonna price Zen right around and possibly just below Intel's offerings. If Zen is quite a bit better.... Then probably right above.


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1 minute ago, DocSwag said:

I disagree. If AMD did that, Intel would just lower prices right back at them. Sure, it will help us then, but AMD isn't stupid enough to end up getting their profit margins lower just to seem like a good deal for the first week. I personally believe that AMD is gonna price Zen right around and possibly just below Intel's offerings. If Zen is quite a bit better.... Then probably right above.

Your post disagrees with itself. I said they should price for direct competition, then you said you disagree and then you said 

Quote

I personally believe that AMD is gonna price Zen right around and possibly just below Intel's offerings.

SO WHICH IS IT


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4 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

I disagree. If AMD did that, Intel would just lower prices right back at them. Sure, it will help us then, but AMD isn't stupid enough to end up getting their profit margins lower just to seem like a good deal for the first week. I personally believe that AMD is gonna price Zen right around and possibly just below Intel's offerings. If Zen is quite a bit better.... Then probably right above.

You're making the assumption that the six/eight core zen will perform like a six/eight core Intel _____. I'm not so sure that's an accurate assumption. I would assume they would be more in line with the consumer platform than the enthusiast platform in terms of performance (I doubt they would be only launching with six and eight core versions of they weren't).


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Just now, ZetZet said:

Your post disagrees with itself. I said they should price for direct competition, then you said you disagree and then you said 

SO WHICH IS IT

Not sure what you're not understanding. What he's saying is: AMD need to price it according to their performance relative to Intels CPUs. 

 

They can't really afford to undercut Intel as they don't have a whole lotta money, while Intel does. 


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1 minute ago, Lauen said:

Not sure what you're not understanding. What he's saying is: AMD need to price it according to their performance relative to Intels CPUs. 

 

They can't really afford to undercut Intel as they don't have a whole lotta money, while Intel does. 

yes, but then he said 6 core should cost 350-400 that doesnt make any sense. it should be 200.


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Ii doesn't surprise me that they launch with high core count CPU's.
They do like their cores. Lets see what they can do.


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Just now, ZetZet said:

yes, but then he said 6 core should cost 350-400 that doesnt make any sense. it should be 200.

IF we look at the numbers we have been presented with before (40% more IPC than Excavator), which means the IPC ends up about the Haswell area, and they manage to keep clocks at a decent level, that's a way too low price. a 6 core Zen cpu would outperform an i5, and mainstream i7s with hyperthreading in multithreaded applications, and would be 10-15% behind in single threaded applications, possibly bringing overall performance to about the same level. Should then be priced just a bit lower than a 6700K, in my opinion, and what seems a lot like his opinion as well. 


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2 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

yes, but then he said 6 core should cost 350-400 that doesnt make any sense. it should be 200.

Why would AMD sell a 6 core CPU for 200$? ZEN is supposed to bring them back in the game, not dump the market price. AMD needs to make money, not throw them out of the window.

 

Even IF Intel's similar models would have a small performance plus (like 10% or so), AMD can still be competitive by having better OC capabilities, soldered TIM, more PCI lanes, better motherboard chipsets, etc. You have to look at the larger picture here.

 


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2 minutes ago, Lauen said:

IF we look at the numbers we have been presented with before (40% more IPC than Excavator), which means the IPC ends up about the Haswell area, and they manage to keep clocks at a decent level, that's a way too low price. a 6 core Zen cpu would outperform an i5, and mainstream i7s with hyperthreading in multithreaded applications, and would be 10-15% behind in single threaded applications, possibly bringing overall performance to about the same level. Should then be priced just a bit lower than a 6700K, in my opinion, and what seems a lot like his opinion as well. 

in theory. IPC is one thing, but if the 6 core runs at 2.5 ghz it won't outperform the i5.


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2 minutes ago, Lauen said:

That's why I also mentioned " and they manage to keep clocks at a decent level," 

well, I don't think they can. The TDP is very low and the core count is high. 8 core engineering sample was 3ghz. That's not beating 6700K anytime soon.


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Just now, ZetZet said:

well, I don't think they can. The TDP is low and the core count is high. 8 core engineering sample was 3ghz. That's not beating 6700K anytime soon.

Keep in mind that AMD and Intel rate their TDPs in a different way. Intel use a common use case, while AMD is more like.. 100% AIDA64 type thing. 


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4 minutes ago, Lauen said:

Intel use a common use case

power_torture.png

power_gaming.png

 

 

sure...


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2 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

well, I don't think they can. The TDP is very low and the core count is high. 8 core engineering sample was 3ghz. That's not beating 6700K anytime soon.

Engineering samples never run at full speed. They are there to test the architecture, not the Hz speed dictated by the node. Also you cannot compare a ZEN core to a Kabe Lake core for instance. There are way too many variables to change IPC/performance. We have to look at benchmarks first.


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Makes sense to target the upper end first. They need to be up there, and existing products can fill out the low end for a while. I would expect them to price for performance, perhaps slightly below the equivalent Intel. Only if their overall performance clearly surpasses Intel can they look much higher. How the performance ends up... we will wait and see.


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1 minute ago, Lauen said:

Notice how the 6700K is above Intels rated TDP on maximum load, 6600K is under, and AMDs offerings are also under their rated TDP? 

yeah, because 6700k is being tortured with cpu and gpu at the same time... And AMD isn't under, it's pretty much exact.


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1 minute ago, Starelementpoke said:

The graph uses an I5 6700k. Seems legit.

it's tom's hardware, old people make mistakes sometimes.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

Your post disagrees with itself. I said they should price for direct competition, then you said you disagree and then you said 

SO WHICH IS IT

I see what you are saying, but you are saying AMD will price Zen over 100 dollars below Intel's offering, or about 30% lower. I said just below Intel. I'm pretty sure just below doesn't mean 30% lower. I'm saying that AMD may price Zen, say, 40 dollars below Intel.

 

18 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

You're making the assumption that the six/eight core zen will perform like a seized/eight core Intel _____. I'm not so sure that's an accurate assumption. I would assume they would be more in line with the consumer platform than the enthusiast platform in terms of performance (I doubt they would be only launching with six and eight core versions of they weren't).

True, that is a good point. I am making the assumption Zen is good because AMD they are screwed if otherwise. However, it is true I might be wrong.


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