Which camera (especially for video)?

[ALwin]

You can look at sample footage taken with any camera, and a majority of them will appear nice.  Because the people who produced those videos are experienced people who know what they are doing.

 

What you need to consider when you buy a camera:

• what are your uses
• what you need
• how you want to work

[brainlessgaming]

28 minutes ago, ALwin said:

You can look at sample footage taken with any camera, and a majority of them will appear nice.  Because the people who produced those videos are experienced people who know what they are doing.

 

What you need to consider when you buy a camera:

• what are your uses
• what you need
• how you want to work

 

1.) As you have read before, I'm looking for a great video camera that has the potential to create cinematic shots. 

2.) I need a camera that shoots amazing video, and also a camera that is easy enough for a first time legit camera (i've heard the G7 is a good starter camera)

3.)I don't get what you mean by "how you want to work".

 

So what would you recommend?

[ALwin]

1-2) I wouldn't touch any of these cameras you listed, which is why I spent $7000+ on my latest camera.

 

3) What's your workflow? What's your creative style? How do you want to work with the camera and all the needed accessories?

 

My recommendation is go take some cinematography courses, and not online courses.

[ChrisCross]

47 minutes ago, brainlessgaming said:

Alright, it's good, but check out this crispy footage out from the g7: 

and this is also with kit lens: 

 

of course its a better camera but if you buy the body alone its nearly twice the price. and with lenses and additional stuff you need you are over your budget. its your decision to go with the more expensive better one or the value option. 

[brainlessgaming]

1 minute ago, ChrisCross said:

of course its a better camera but if you buy the body alone its nearly twice the price. and with lenses and additional stuff you need you are over your budget. its your decision to go with the more expensive better one or the value option. 

For me in the USA, it's only $100 with the lens, so I think the g7 is a better option in my case.

[brainlessgaming]

2 minutes ago, ALwin said:

1-2) I wouldn't touch any of these cameras you listed, which is why I spent $7000+ on my latest camera.

 

3) What's your workflow? What's your creative style? How do you want to work with the camera and all the needed accessories?

 

My recommendation is go take some cinematography courses, and not online courses.

You wouldn't touch the G7? I've gotta disagree. That is one of the best rated mirrorless for video in that price range.

And how is a beginner supposed to spend $7000+ on a camera?

 

Sorry still not getting the last question. I plan on using a stabilizer (~$70), tripod, and other things to get smooth footage. 

[ALwin]

I don't care about the G7, why should I when I have a FS7?  I prefer using a Super35 or larger sensor than a MFT.  And who decided the G7 as the best camera for that price range?  I didn't like any camera available under $3000 which is the reason I spent so much to buy a camera that met most of my requirements and suited my shooting style.

 

$70 stabilizer, is that a broom stick, rubber bands and bricks as a counter weight?  I'm not talking about whether your footage is smooth or not.  I'm asking about how you plan to work with the camera.  Do you have preferences on color science/styles, file formats, bit rates, frame rates, resolution?  Or things like mounting mics, lights, rigging, viewfinders, monitors, etc.

[brainlessgaming]

15 minutes ago, ALwin said:

I don't care about the G7, why should I when I have a FS7?  I prefer using a Super35 or larger sensor than a MFT.  And who decided the G7 as the best camera for that price range?  I didn't like any camera available under $3000 which is the reason I spent so much to buy a camera that met most of my requirements and suited my shooting style.

 

$70 stabilizer, is that a broom stick, rubber bands and bricks as a counter weight?  I'm not talking about whether your footage is smooth or not.  I'm asking about how you plan to work with the camera.  Do you have preferences on color science/styles, file formats, bit rates, frame rates, resolution?

I'm sorry, but I've never heard of anyone that spends $7000 for their first camera. 

And if your not convinced about the Lumix G7, look up the reviews. They speak for themselves.

 

I don't know all the technical details of how I'm going to work because I still have a lot to learn, which is why I don't want to blow a bunch of money for my 1st camera.

I can tell you that I want 60 fps (for smooth video), 1080p will be great, avchd is a format that i'd use.

 

Heres the stabilizer. Of course it's not the best, but it's a start: http://www.amazon.com/OFFICIAL-Midnight-Limited-stabilizer-Smartphone/dp/B00S10KFTC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1462319741&sr=8-3&keywords=stabilizer

 

I'd also appreciate if you'd use a nicer tone when you are giving advice. You seem quite angry...

[ALwin]

Never said it was my first camera, though I do know people who buy $3000-25,000 cameras as their first and I end up training them sometimes.  Over the past 10 or so odd years I've probably invested over $100,000 in camera gear and accessories.

 

If you figure out how you want to work, choosing a camera becomes much easier.

[brainlessgaming]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

Never said it was my first camera, though I do know people who buy $3000-25,000 cameras as their first and I end up training them sometimes.  Over the past 10 or so odd years I've probably invested over $100,000 in camera gear and accessories.

 

If you figure out how you want to work, choosing a camera becomes much easier.

Ok fair enough. So is the info I provided before enough to make a recommendation for me?

 

I still don't get why you're so against the G7. Have you read/watched reviews about it?

[ALwin]

6 hours ago, brainlessgaming said:

Ok fair enough. So is the info I provided before enough to make a recommendation for me?

 

I still don't get why you're so against the G7. Have you read/watched reviews about it?

You're misunderstanding what I said.

 

I said I wouldn't consider any of the cameras you listed (for myself) in regards to the two points you made:

8 hours ago, brainlessgaming said:

1.) As you have read before, I'm looking for a great video camera that has the potential to create cinematic shots. 

2.) I need a camera that shoots amazing video,

And I have gained experience and knowledge over the years to have a fairly certain idea of what I want in a camera.  Hence I definitely would not consider the G7.  I never said it was a bad camera, it just doesn't suit my needs.

 

Whether you buy the G7 or another camera doesn't matter to me.  What matters is that you make the choice based on your personal needs, which I have no idea what they are.  These are things you need to figure out.  Think about them before you make a leap and buy a camera.  If you don't yet have an idea perhaps you should do more research.  At the same time think about the accessories you need and how you will attach them to the camera.  Sometimes buying a camera like a DSLR/Mirrorless is a good idea for the "better" image quality (due mainly to a larger sensor) but the drawbacks are that it "may" lack many of the integrated components of a proper video camera (e.g. dual audio inputs using XLR, viewfinder/monitor with features that are geared towards video, form factor for quick run&gun or just shooting right straight out of the bag without having to assemble the kit overtime) which can imply you need to buy extra accessories.

 

I was a DSLR video person for a couple of years before it became frustrating with having extra cables and accessories attached everywhere, that I decided a proper video camera with many of the components I need integrated was worth the extra money spent.

 

Have you seen the links in my signature?

[ShadowCaptain]

6 hours ago, brainlessgaming said:

SNIP

Honestly the "camera" itself is the least of your concerns when it comes to making good video

"cinematic" is not a thing that is down to the camera, it mostly comes from your vision as a shooter, the colour grading, the lighting and other such aspects

I can make an iPhone video look like its from a holywood movie

The G7 is a an ok camera, as long as you are okay with Micro Four Thirds (not a fan myself), as long as you are prepared to work with the demands of 4k editing, and as long as you can use it attatched with everything you need

For your budget, its going to be hard to recommend much more than a G7 or A6000 (or spend more and get the A6300 if it was me)

But bear in mind, to actually make "amazing" video you need to spend a lot of money, and a lot of time to learn the craft

[ALwin]

6 minutes ago, ShadowCaptain said:

Honestly the "camera" itself is the least of your concerns when it comes to making good video

"cinematic" is not a thing that is down to the camera, it mostly comes from your vision as a shooter, the colour grading, the lighting and other such aspects

I can make an iPhone video look like its from a holywood movie

The G7 is a an ok camera, as long as you are okay with Micro Four Thirds (not a fan myself), as long as you are prepared to work with the demands of 4k editing, and as long as you can use it attatched with everything you need

For your budget, its going to be hard to recommend much more than a G7 or A6000 (or spend more and get the A6300 if it was me)

But bear in mind, to actually make "amazing" video you need to spend a lot of money, and a lot of time to learn the craft

These are also good points, and (OP) you should really consider them.

 

6 minutes ago, ShadowCaptain said:

But bear in mind, to actually make "amazing" video ... and a lot of time to learn the craft

It's because of this reason why I don't call myself a DP when I am operating my camera to film anything that is not a "documentary" or interview.

 

[ChrisCross]

10 hours ago, brainlessgaming said:

For me in the USA, it's only $100 with the lens, so I think the g7 is a better option in my case.

yeah but with which lense? can you show me both offers? 

 

10 hours ago, ALwin said:

... 

to sum it up. not everybody won in the lottery. and there is no need to be that aggressive if somebody comes into this forum with a set budget. people have different have different meanings of money, you got to respect that. 

[brainlessgaming]

6 hours ago, ShadowCaptain said:

Honestly the "camera" itself is the least of your concerns when it comes to making good video

"cinematic" is not a thing that is down to the camera, it mostly comes from your vision as a shooter, the colour grading, the lighting and other such aspects

I can make an iPhone video look like its from a holywood movie

The G7 is a an ok camera, as long as you are okay with Micro Four Thirds (not a fan myself), as long as you are prepared to work with the demands of 4k editing, and as long as you can use it attatched with everything you need

For your budget, its going to be hard to recommend much more than a G7 or A6000 (or spend more and get the A6300 if it was me)

But bear in mind, to actually make "amazing" video you need to spend a lot of money, and a lot of time to learn the craft

I get that my videos won't be perfect when I start. That's why I said "the potential to film great video". I have a lot of learning to do, which is why I want to start small and don't want to blow a bunch of money on my first camera. 

I have video editing down. I've been video editing for a while. Color grading, not so much. 

What gives the a6300 so much of a big advantage that make it worth more than double the cost of the g7 besides the bigger sensor?

 

And sure, you can make a iPhone video look kinda cinematic, but it won't be nearly as crisp as a dedicated camera. There's a reason people spend money on cameras. 

[ShadowCaptain]

10 minutes ago, brainlessgaming said:

What gives the a6300 so much of a big advantage that make it worth more than double the cost of the g7 besides the bigger sensor?

 

And sure, you can make a iPhone video look kinda cinematic, but it won't be nearly as crisp as a dedicated camera. There's a reason people spend money on cameras. 

Bigger sensor, more dof, more dynamic range, way WAY better in low light, less crop factor (1.5x vs 2x) better AF system, better EVF, more frame rate options, slow motion etc, 6k downsampled 4k image

With regards to the iPhone point I was trying to explain that "cinematic" is nothing to with the camera, and all to do with technique

I bet I could give a Christopher Nolan an iPhone, and I could use an 8k red weapon, and he would still make a better movie than me

[ALwin]

1 minute ago, ShadowCaptain said:

I bet I could give a Christopher Nolan an iPhone, and I could use an 8k red weapon, and he would still make a better movie than me

Give me an 8K Red and I'll prove he can make a better movie than I could.

 

 

20 minutes ago, brainlessgaming said:

There's a reason people spend money on cameras. 

If you know this already why are you asking us about cameras.

[brainlessgaming]

1 minute ago, ShadowCaptain said:

Bigger sensor, more dof, more dynamic range, way WAY better in low light, less crop factor (1.5x vs 2x) better AF system, better EVF, more frame rate options, slow motion etc, 6k downsampled 4k image

With regards to the iPhone point I was trying to explain that "cinematic" is nothing to with the camera, and all to do with technique

I bet I could give a Christopher Nolan an iPhone, and I could use an 8k red weapon, and he would still make a better movie than me

 

Maybe cinematic was the wrong word. Crispy and clear would be a better word. I get your point though. It has a lot to do with the operator, which is again why I don't want to blow a bunch of money on my first camera. 

 

So would you suggest I wait and get the Sony a6300?

[ALwin]

1 minute ago, brainlessgaming said:

Crispy and clear would be a better word

Most modern cameras have no issue with this.  Even compact point & shoot cameras, given the right conditions.

[ShadowCaptain]

Just now, brainlessgaming said:

So would you suggest I wait and get the Sony a6300?

Well I think $ for $ its the best value camera currently on the market, and even forgetting price, its THE best APSC camera on the market

Its not perfect though and there are limitations (overheating, no mic jack, no headphone jack, no IBIS, E mount etc) but that is the same for all cameras

If it seems to tick all of your boxes, yes I would recommend it, but you need to be sure it does what you need and works how you intend to work

Also if you can, visit a shop and try one, - specs dont matter if you dont enjoy using it

[brainlessgaming]

1 minute ago, ALwin said:

Give me an 8K Red and I'll prove he can make a better movie than I could.

 

 

If you know this already why are you asking us about cameras.

I don't get what your trying to say. I misunderstood the point he was trying to make...

I'm asking for advice because I'm looking for the best *first* camera for my needs (video).

[ALwin]

1 minute ago, brainlessgaming said:

the best *first* camera for my needs (video).

The best first camera on your list would probably be the Nikon D3300, it's cheaper than the other cameras on your list.  Or even a camcorder that's cheaper than the Sony AX33.

 

As you said, you are a beginner.  Which means as you learn and gain experience, you will quickly outgrow the camera.  So buy a nice cheap one that you can use to learn, not to produce.  Don't even think about 4K until you master cinematography with 1080p.

[brainlessgaming]

3 minutes ago, ShadowCaptain said:

Well I think $ for $ its the best value camera currently on the market, and even forgetting price, its THE best APSC camera on the market

Its not perfect though and there are limitations (overheating, no mic jack, no headphone jack, no IBIS, E mount etc) but that is the same for all cameras

If it seems to tick all of your boxes, yes I would recommend it, but you need to be sure it does what you need and works how you intend to work

Also if you can, visit a shop and try one, - specs dont matter if you dont enjoy using it

That's a problem that it doesn't have a mic jack. That's a big thing for me at least. Overheating to what extend? Will it limit the amount of video I can shoot continuously?

[brainlessgaming]

1 minute ago, ALwin said:

The best first camera on your list would probably be the Nikon D3300, it's cheaper than the other cameras on your list.  Or even a camcorder that's cheaper than the Sony AX33.

 

As you said, you are a beginner.  Which means as you learn and gain experience, you will quickly outgrow the camera.  So buy a nice cheap one that you can use to learn, not to produce.  Don't even think about 4K until you master cinematography with 1080p.

To be honest, I wan't even thinking about the 4k that much.

What matters most for me is 1080p 60fps.

For around $100, I can get the g7 which I see is better for video. Why would you recommend the d3300 over the g7? 

B&H has the g7 for $597 + $100 giftcard, making the g7 only $100 more than the d3300.

[ALwin]

2 minutes ago, brainlessgaming said:

B&H has the g7 for $597 + $100 giftcard, making the g7 only $100 more than the d3300.

They why are you still here, go buy the camera you want.