Do You Support Apple in their Case with the FBI?

[afyeung]

Do You Support Apple in their Case with the FBI? Explain your rationale if you want to and please keep it civil lol. Just the tech side. Terrorist/families not involved.

[mathmeister]

Quote

I'm happy that if this works, FBI gets the information and then Apple fixes the exploit and the FBI doesn't get back in. But I was hoping for there to be more of a fight to make a point that information and privacy is important. Many people say, "I'm not doing anything wrong so why does it matter." This goes back to the argument of not caring about free speech because you have nothing to say.

I said this earlier when someone posted something about a new exploit to unlock the phone.

[terrytek]

i am probably the only techie who actually backs the FBI. I think that data they can find off that phone could help decipher why the shooter did it in the first place, and even have data that could possibly take down ISIS.  sure it's a master code, but they could very well destroy it once they're done with it, or if not, just make it super top secret and just hide it away, away from prying hands.

[Centurius]

Yes, while I do believe companies should cooperate with legal search warrants, the greater implications of building a backdoor into a system that could be abused by agencies, governments and individuals with far less oversight outweighs the possible gains of the information this phone or future phones might contain. I also believe the judiciary, if they had truly understood the implications, would have rejected the FBI's case.

[StevenSensei]

Yes. The US government should not be able to force a company to provide it with a way to access records of literally every device ever made. This would give that government the ability to access private data and information not only of "criminals" who under US law are innocent until proven guilty...but also of celebrities, politicians, government officials, and ordinary people without any warrant or cause. This opens up everyone using an i-Device to having no security at all. In addition to the huge potential for abuse of this technology, it would also lead to manipulation of people who have their data compromised and could create an international issue when the US is found to be looking at phones of officials from other countries. 

 

Unlocking one phone for a "limited use" with a tool that has "Infinite use" compromises freedom and liberty of everyone in the world. 

[StevenSensei]

1 minute ago, terrytek said:

i am probably the only techie who actually backs the FBI. I think that data they can find off that phone could help decipher why the shooter did it in the first place, and even have data that could possibly take down ISIS.  sure it's a master code, but they could very well destroy it once they're done with it, or if not, just make it super top secret and just hide it away, away from prying hands.

In an ideal world I would agree with you...but once you open Pandora's box there is no going back....the US will not lock it away...they will continue to use it to spy...just like the NSA has. Even with all the surveillance in the USA, it has not prevented terrorism or done anything to make Americans or the world safe or more secure...but has done everything to reduce the privacy and liberty of its citizens. 

[thekeemo]

No

However im not on the FBI side

Not indifferent either.

[terrytek]

2 minutes ago, Papakuma said:

In an ideal world I would agree with you...but once you open Pandora's box there is no going back....the US will not lock it away...they will continue to use it to spy...just like the NSA has. Even with all the surveillance in the USA, it has not prevented terrorism or done anything to make Americans or the world safe or more secure...but has done everything to reduce the privacy and liberty of its citizens. 

but really i got nothing to hide, as long as it helps the fbi bring this to a close and maybe use that data with trying to take down isis, i'm all go for it. 

[thekeemo]

Just now, EVGAROG88 said:

Aren't ISIS already losing the fight, since they've lost massive amounts of ground in Iraq and Syria?

According to contacts in Syria not really.

The issue is we are combating the symptoms not the cause.

No one is asking WHY ISIS started and fixing that.

[TechFnatic]

3 minutes ago, terrytek said:

but really i got nothing to hide, as long as it helps the fbi bring this to a close and maybe use that data with trying to take down isis, i'm all go for it. 

This would be a huge security flaw for anyone using an iOS device, simply recreating the OS and getting everyone on the same platform would be a pain in the ass

[martward]

I think building a back door in the os won't really help the FBI since terrorists will just find new ways to communicate privately. The abuse by indivinduals, however, will be a very real thing I am afraid.

[StevenSensei]

3 minutes ago, terrytek said:

but really i got nothing to hide, as long as it helps the fbi bring this to a close and maybe use that data with trying to take down isis, i'm all go for it. 

That argument doesn't hold much weight when talking about freedoms and liberty.... "Nobody needs to justify why the "need" a right: the burden of justification falls on the one seeking to infringe upon the right...Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say"

 

 

 

[Centurius]

4 minutes ago, thekeemo said:

According to contacts in Syria not really.

The issue is we are combating the symptoms not the cause.

No one is asking WHY ISIS started and fixing that.

Plenty of people are asking that but finding a solution to solve a fundamental divide going back to shortly after the spread of Islam combined with European colonialism and more specifically the division of the Ottoman Empire following World War 1 and the perception of Western Imperialism in the Middle East takes a bit longer than a few years and will require fundamental changes pretty much everywhere. 

[thekeemo]

Just now, Centurius said:

Plenty of people are asking that but finding a solution to solve a fundamental divide going back to shortly after the spread of Islam combined with European colonialism and more specifically the division of the Ottoman Empire following World War 1 and the perception of Western Imperialism in the Middle East takes a bit longer than a few years and will require fundamental changes pretty much everywhere. 

Well there is also the modern stuff such as the invasion of Iraq and western leaders paying off our gov.

[Centurius]

Just now, thekeemo said:

Well there is also the modern stuff such as the invasion of Iraq and western leaders paying off our gov.

See: Perception of Western Imperialism

[thekeemo]

Just now, Centurius said:

See: Perception of Western Imperialism

Ah, I thought you were referring to the late colonial age.

[Centurius]

Just now, thekeemo said:

Ah, I thought you were referring to the late colonial age.

Nah, 20th and 21st centuries.

[thekeemo]

Just now, Centurius said:

Nah, 20th and 21st centuries.

Early 20th century I would consider late colonial age. England still had a heavy hand in many countries mid 1900s.

[Centurius]

Just now, thekeemo said:

Early 20th century I would consider late colonial age. England still had a heavy hand in many countries mid 1900s.

Yeah but while the players as well as the levels of involvement have changed you could argue it never really stopped.

[thekeemo]

Just now, Centurius said:

Yeah but while the players as well as the levels of involvement have changed you could argue it never really stopped.

Agreed.

[Praesi]

They just should spy the white house. There is no better way to get Informations about Terrorists.

[flowalex]

I support apple because if one was to think about it they destroyed two other phones, and the San Bernardino Police Chief has even said that there is likely nothing on that phone of importance (Source: http://www.npr.org/2016/02/26/468216198/san-bernardino-police-chief-weighs-in-on-whether-apple-should-unlock-shooter-s-p). Plus I believe that the government, not just the FBI doesn't understand why Apple started implementing this feature about 4 months after Snowden released the information about the NSA. John Oliver even did a piece on encryption, will not work unless you have an IP from the US, Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Encryption (HBO).  I even have full dis encryption on my laptop so that in the unlikely event I loose it somewhere no one can get the data I have on it since I have a lot of personal files for school and taxes on the hard drive.  Also I don't like Apple, I think they make a few good products, but I am on their side for this

[failedjedi]

15 hours ago, terrytek said:

i am probably the only techie who actually backs the FBI. I think that data they can find off that phone could help decipher why the shooter did it in the first place, and even have data that could possibly take down ISIS.  sure it's a master code, but they could very well destroy it once they're done with it, or if not, just make it super top secret and just hide it away, away from prying hands.

 

 

I don't think you are alone. I don't necessarily support the FBI specifically, but this case has extenuating circumstances. First, the terrorist is dead, the phone is in the possession of the government as evidence. Legally speaking, it is their phone now. They should be allowed to access it in this situation. But, add on top of that, a judge gave a legal order. This isn't the FBI wanting to remotely access some random phone. This is the FBI wanting access to the phone of a known terrorist that they physically have, and have the legal authority to access. 

 

I'm all for Apple standing up for privacy in general. But to make a big stink in a terrorist case seems odd. Of all the other requests the FBI has made for access, I'm sure there is a more shady one they can make a stink about. But this is a known terrorist. How can you pick this case to stand your ground? 

[Tech_Dreamer]

Government can't be trusted tbh , that doesn't automatically make the people trustworthy as well

[AshleyAshes]

16 hours ago, terrytek said:

i am probably the only techie who actually backs the FBI. I think that data they can find off that phone could help decipher why the shooter did it in the first place, and even have data that could possibly take down ISIS.

Yes, absolutely.  They destroyed their phones and hard drives on every other phone and computer they owned, in a way that the FBI has recovered no meaningful data, but the company cellphone, which they almost certainly didn't use for organization at all, since it was a company cellphone and that would be stupid as hell, surely has all of the critical data to eliminate an entire terrorists organization.  Because that's what organizations like that do, they give two gunmen every single critical piece of information that could destroy their organization, and then hope the government doesn't get a copy of it.  ...Because ISIS is really Cobra and thusly they are total idiots.

 

If the FBI gets onto that phone, by whatever means, they will find nothing of value on it.  It's worthlessness is most certainly why it was not destroyed along everything else.