Jump to content

Best Build for Learning to build?

Bondy3
 Share
Posted

Hello,

 

my Stepson is getting really into playing computer games, especially minecraft (hes 10)  and I think it would be a good idea to get him to learn all about the parts of a computer,  I have been looking at parts to try and figure out how to make a good cheap build that he can use for minecraft (he has a crap laptop that really struggles to run minecraft and he got a 1080p display for his birthday from his mom, so I want to allow him to make use of that)

 

I was hoping for a cheap build, (maybe in the vicinity of $300,  I want a video card though)  I'm not sure what exactly he would need in terms of power to be able to play minecraft.

 

But more than just getting the best parts for the money, I would like to ensure that putting together a computer is a learning process for him,  I havn't built a computer in over 10 years, so it will be a bit of a learning process for me as well.  so please Along with recommendations can you please tell me why you picked the parts that you did so I can learn a bit more about what im building and can pass that knowledge down to him.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I appreciate any advice you have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
1 minute ago, Bondy3 said:

Hello,

 

my Stepson is getting really into playing computer games, especially minecraft (hes 10)  and I think it would be a good idea to get him to learn all about the parts of a computer,  I have been looking at parts to try and figure out how to make a good cheap build that he can use for minecraft (he has a crap laptop that really struggles to run minecraft and he got a 1080p display for his birthday from his mom, so I want to allow him to make use of that)

 

I was hoping for a cheap build, (maybe in the vicinity of $300,  I want a video card though)  I'm not sure what exactly he would need in terms of power to be able to play minecraft.

 

But more than just getting the best parts for the money, I would like to ensure that putting together a computer is a learning process for him,  I havn't built a computer in over 10 years, so it will be a bit of a learning process for me as well.  so please Along with recommendations can you please tell me why you picked the parts that you did so I can learn a bit more about what im building and can pass that knowledge down to him.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I appreciate any advice you have.

I have the perfect thing for this, I myself have been making a variety of builds in this price point, because I am also interested in Minecraft. Minecraft utilizes only a single core, so to get the best performance, intel is the way to go. Here's a pc part picker list. 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Pn2bNG
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Pn2bNG/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($65.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: Biostar B85MG Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($37.98 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Crucial 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($28.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 250GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($27.50 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card  ($103.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Case: Xion XON-310_BK MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($26.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: Logisys 480W ATX Power Supply  ($12.98 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $304.42
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-23 13:31 EDT-0400

hope it helps

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
6 minutes ago, Heuron said:

I have the perfect thing for this, I myself have been making a variety of builds in this price point, because I am also interested in Minecraft. Minecraft utilizes only a single core, so to get the best performance, intel is the way to go. Here's a pc part picker list. 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Pn2bNG
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Pn2bNG/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($65.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: Biostar B85MG Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($37.98 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Crucial 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($28.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 250GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($27.50 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card  ($103.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Case: Xion XON-310_BK MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($26.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: Logisys 480W ATX Power Supply  ($12.98 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $304.42
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-23 13:31 EDT-0400

hope it helps

Oh god. No one ever buy that power supply. It's a fire hazard and there's a good possibility it will fail to protect your system. Get a Corsair CX-series even, would be better than that. Also, there's no reason at all to get the G3258 and put it in that mobo, you can't overclock in that board. Get the G3250. It's the same but not unlocked.

Edit: Also nuke that motherboard. There's a gigabyte one that price too that won't be crappy.

Edit again: In this day and age there's no excuse for not running an SSD either. They are cheap and will massively improve your speed. Get whatever 120GB one you can find for cheapest. Sandisk has one for $45.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted

This is a little overbudget, but still in the 300 dollar range. 

CPU: The CPU of choice is the AMD Athlon X4 860K. Minecraft uses alot of CPU, and since this is 4-Core CPU clocked at 3.7 GHz, this will be a better option for a budget build that will be used for MC. 

Motherboard: The MSI A68HM-E33 is a great 40 Dollar motherboard that has an easy to use BIOS and will not fail. 

Cooler: The Cooler Master 212 Evo is a much better replacement for the stock cooler in AMD CPU's. Widely used in many systems because of it's cheapness and performace, the cooler will not fail. 

Memory: 8 Gigabytes of Crucial Balistix Sport will be more than enough to run Minecraft. 

HDD: A 1TB SeaGate HDD is a great cheap 1 TB hard drive and will last your ten year old stepson a while before he fills it up with school stuff and other games. 

Graphics Card: The PNY GeForce GTX 750 Ti is a graphics card is a card that will be more than capable of running MC...

Case: The Raidmax ATX-402WB is a cheap case that looks pretty good and has decent cable management. 

PSU: The EVGA 500B is a super efficient 80+ Bronze certified power supply that is cheap and quiet. 

 

 

PCPartPicker Link: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/7qq2gs

Hope this helped!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted

No OS, no rebates (price is as shown):

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Athlon X4 860K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($69.99 @ B&H)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A68M-DG3+ Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard  ($44.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Mushkin Essentials 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($17.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 250GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($19.90 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card  ($103.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Xion XON-310_BK MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($27.00 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 300W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($33.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $317.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-23 13:43 EDT-0400

 

...or the Intel.  This is limited by the dual core CPU, but you have an upgrade path.  If you find you need more CPU power you can pop in a i5 4460.  You have no worthwhile upgrade path with the 860K:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G3250 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($54.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($66.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Mushkin Essentials 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($17.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 250GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($19.90 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card  ($103.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Xion XON-310_BK MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($27.00 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 300W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($33.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $324.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-23 13:56 EDT-0400

 

 

4 GB of RAM is enough to get started.  I had to wait for an RMA on a RAM kit and was using 4GB for about 10 days.  I was running Win7 64 bit, and dual monitors.  One monitor running video and the other running a modded version of Minecraft. 

 

If you ever upgrade the GPU, you will need a new power supply.

 

The case is a top mount PSU.  This means the power supply will act as the exhaust and the case comes with a 120mm fan in the front to bring in fresh air.

 

Personally I would go with the Intel build and hunt for used i5 4460s.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
4 minutes ago, Joey No Salad said:

This is a little overbudget, but still in the 300 dollar range. 

CPU: The CPU of choice is the AMD Athlon X4 860K. Minecraft uses alot of CPU, and since this is 4-Core CPU clocked at 3.7 GHz, this will be a better option for a budget build that will be used for MC. 

Motherboard: The MSI A68HM-E33 is a great 40 Dollar motherboard that has an easy to use BIOS and will not fail. 

Cooler: The Cooler Master 212 Evo is a much better replacement for the stock cooler in AMD CPU's. Widely used in many systems because of it's cheapness and performace, the cooler will not fail. 

Memory: 8 Gigabytes of Crucial Balistix Sport will be more than enough to run Minecraft. 

HDD: A 1TB SeaGate HDD is a great cheap 1 TB hard drive and will last your ten year old stepson a while before he fills it up with school stuff and other games. 

Graphics Card: The PNY GeForce GTX 750 Ti is a graphics card is a card that will be more than capable of running MC...

Case: The Raidmax ATX-402WB is a cheap case that looks pretty good and has decent cable management. 

PSU: The EVGA 500B is a super efficient 80+ Bronze certified power supply that is cheap and quiet. 

 

 

PCPartPicker Link: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/7qq2gs

Hope this helped!

A pentium build would be much better suited for minecraft, as minecraft cannot take advantage of multiple cores. Say what you will but intel always beats AMD in single-core.

Edit: And here's my build: http://pcpartpicker.com/user/krc4267/saved/JtVj4D

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
Just now, KRC1023 said:

A pentium build would be much better suited for minecraft, as minecraft cannot take advantage of multiple cores. Say what you will but intel always beats AMD in single-core.

Vanilla MC will run fine with the 860K.  It is an arguably better all around CPU (compared to the dual core Pentium).  You do lose the upgrade path though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted

Well I would recommend letting him tinker with old potatoes first

but a build like this http://pcpartpicker.com/p/8f7JvK would be fairly simple and easily upgradable in the future. 

                     .
                   _/ V\
                  / /  /
                <<    |
                ,/    ]
              ,/      ]
            ,/        |
           /    \  \ /
          /      | | |
    ______|   __/_/| |
   /_______\______}\__}
Spoiler

[i7-7700k@5Ghz | MSI Z270 M7 | 16GB 3000 GEIL EVOX | STRIX ROG 1060 OC 6G | EVGA G2 650W | ROSEWILL B2 SPIRIT | SANDISK 256GB M2 | 4x 1TB Seagate Barracudas RAID 10 ]

[i3-4360 | mini-itx potato | 4gb DDR3-1600 | 8tb wd red | 250gb seagate| Debian 9 ]

[Dell Inspiron 15 5567] 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
1 minute ago, stconquest said:

Vanilla MC will run fine with the 860K.  It is an arguably better all around CPU (compared to the dual core Pentium).  You do lose the upgrade path though.

You also have to spend extra on a cooler, and it will be less power efficient and run hotter. If he ever wants to run more than minecraft he'd be glad he got the intel system that can be upgraded.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
3 minutes ago, KRC1023 said:

You also have to spend extra on a cooler, and it will be less power efficient and run hotter. If he ever wants to run more than minecraft he'd be glad he got the intel system that can be upgraded.

 

You do not need to overclock the 860K to run vanilla MC.  If he ever wants to run more than MC, he will be glad he can support four threads instead of two...

 

Either way, the Pentium or the 860K, the purpose will be served.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted

Here:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD 5350 2.05Ghz Quad-Core Processor  ($38.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: MSI AM1I Mini ITX AM1 Motherboard  ($22.20 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Team Elite 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($26.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($53.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 950 2GB Video Card  ($129.99 @ Micro Center) 
Case: Raidmax ATX-402WB ATX Mid Tower Case  ($19.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA 430W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply  ($20.98 @ Newegg) 
Total: $313.13
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-23 13:56 EDT-0400

 

So:

 

The AMD 5350 is a decent CPU for budget builds

MSI MoBo's are great

8GB of RAM should be enough

A 1TB HDD is good for storing lots of data and programs

The GTX 950 is a great budget card

The EVGA 430W PSU should be good enough

Athlon X2 for only 27.31$   Best part lists at different price points   Windows 1.01 running natively on an Eee PC

My rig:

Spoiler

Celeronator (new main rig)

CPU: Intel Celeron (duh) N2840 2.16GHz Dual Core

RAM: 4GB DDR3 1333MHz

HDD: Seagate 500GB

GPU: Intel HD Graphics 3000 Series

Spoiler

Frankenhertz (ex main rig)

CPU: Intel Atom N2600 1.6GHz Dual Core

RAM: 1GB DDR3-800

HDD: HGST 320GB

GPU: Intel Graphics Media Accelerator (GMA) 3600

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted

Total 350$, I know it's a bit overkill, but couldn't find any better.

Reason why I choose SSD instead of HDD, thats because it's better to use OS+ Minecraft on SSD (assuming that kid would play only MC) and on next Bday you can buy him 1TB WD10EZEX  for additional storage.

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Athlon X4 860K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($69.99 @ B&H) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A68HM-H Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard  ($49.88 @ OutletPC) 
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($32.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Kingston SSDNow V300 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($43.88 @ OutletPC) 
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card  ($99.99 @ NCIX US) 
Case: NZXT Source 210 (White) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($34.99 @ Directron) 
Power Supply: EVGA 430W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply  ($20.98 @ Newegg) 
Total: $352.70
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-23 13:56 EDT-0400

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
47 minutes ago, Bondy3 said:

 

Going to want an APU based system probably, but if you want to wait a bit AM4 is coming out and that would be a much better platform to get

A8 7650K | CS:GO/Dota 2/SC2 benchmarks Tested With 1866Mhz RAM
http://www.technologyx.com/featured/amd-a8-7650k-apu-review-the-little-apu-that-could/4/

A8 7650K | Various AAA titles Tested with 2133Mhz RAM
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9217/the-amd-a8-7650k-apu-review-also-new-testing-methodology/7

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/dq3Q8d
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/dq3Q8d/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD A8-7670K 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($94.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard  ($68.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 Memory  ($37.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($48.98 @ OutletPC)
Case: Xion XON-310_BK MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($27.00 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($55.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $333.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-23 14:08 EDT-0400


I'd go for a 360 over a 750ti if you really want a GPU within that budget, but you're going to end up with a weaker motherboard/Power Supply, the APU will probably be fine for him

@Me1bourne

Should never go for a V300 SSD man

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/NV7JvK
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/NV7JvK/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD Athlon X4 860K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($69.99 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A68HM-DS2H Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard  ($48.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Team Elite 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($26.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Sandisk SSD PLUS 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($64.00 @ Amazon)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R7 360 2GB Core Edition Video Card  ($100.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Xion XON-310_BK MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($27.00 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA 500W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply  ($34.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $372.95
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-23 14:12 EDT-0400

I edit my posts a lot, Twitter is @LordStreetguru just don't ask PC questions there mostly...
 

Spoiler

 

What is your budget/country for your new PC?

 

what monitor resolution/refresh rate?

 

What games or other software do you need to run?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
  • Author

Wow there are such great suggestions,  you guys thought of some stuffI hadn't.  One thing I hadnt thought of, and im now debating if I want to do. is get an OS.  maybe it would be good to put him on Linux and force him to use that to learn.  

 

take-away points

1) should I run his system on an SSD or a spinny disk?

2) should I get him windows 10? or make him use something free?

3) over-clocking?  would that require a decent cpu cooling system?

4) how cheap can I go with a power supply?  I dont want something that will crap out and break everything, 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
  • Author
40 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Vanilla MC will run fine with the 860K.  It is an arguably better all around CPU (compared to the dual core Pentium).  You do lose the upgrade path though.

do many games really need multi-core?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
30 minutes ago, Bondy3 said:

do many games really need multi-core?

There are a good amount.  Even Minecraft can use two cores when configured with a certain third part program:  Optifine.  I think I would still do the Pentium + H97, just so you have the upgrade path.  The cost is not much different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
32 minutes ago, Bondy3 said:

do many games really need multi-core?

Better for future compatibility

 

probably a 240gb SSD, should be fine.

 

Well if you really want to get him learning make him install and figure out GNU/Linux, preferable Compiling Gentoo from source.

I edit my posts a lot, Twitter is @LordStreetguru just don't ask PC questions there mostly...
 

Spoiler

 

What is your budget/country for your new PC?

 

what monitor resolution/refresh rate?

 

What games or other software do you need to run?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
  • Author
4 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

Well if you really want to get him learning make him install and figure out GNU/Linux, preferable Compiling Gentoo from source.

I feel like that might be a little much for a 10 year old

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
4 minutes ago, Bondy3 said:

I feel like that might be a little much for a 10 year old

It'll be fine, gives him something to do for a month trying to figure out how to get minecraft working under linux

I edit my posts a lot, Twitter is @LordStreetguru just don't ask PC questions there mostly...
 

Spoiler

 

What is your budget/country for your new PC?

 

what monitor resolution/refresh rate?

 

What games or other software do you need to run?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
5 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

It'll be fine, gives him something to do for a month trying to figure out how to get minecraft working under linux

Not fair... at all. Minecraft is one of the easiest games to run on linux. In fact, it's a lot easier to do on linux. Solus Operating System is what I'd go with (It's my daily driver on all my systems) because it's easy to figure out and would be fairly easy to move from windows (UI wise) also it's maintained by awesome people.

 

edit: However, if you're going to go AMD you can pretty much throw away the idea of having good driver support on linux or (to a lesser extent) windows. The recent nvidia ones are crap too but AMD's drivers have been crap for a long time as I'm sure you all know.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
Just now, KRC1023 said:

Not fair... at all. Minecraft is one of the easiest games to run on linux. In fact, it's a lot easier to do on linux. Solus Operating System is what I'd go with (It's my daily driver on all my systems) because it's easy to figure out and would be fairly easy to move from windows (UI wise) also it's maintained by awesome people.

 

 

Didn't know they ported it to linux, now they just need to actually give it like a proper optimized engine, dunno what's taking them so long.

 

http://www.howtogeek.com/198476/how-to-install-minecraft-on-ubuntu-or-any-other-linux-distribution/

 

Also you might want to get the kid started on like dota 2, minecraft is nice for creativity, but some hard logic and reaction time building is going to be good too, it runs on linux as well, not sure exactly how well though.

 

really though windows is probably fine just for ease of use and game compatibility

I edit my posts a lot, Twitter is @LordStreetguru just don't ask PC questions there mostly...
 

Spoiler

 

What is your budget/country for your new PC?

 

what monitor resolution/refresh rate?

 

What games or other software do you need to run?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted
5 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

Didn't know they ported it to linux, now they just need to actually give it like a proper optimized engine, dunno what's taking them so long.

 

http://www.howtogeek.com/198476/how-to-install-minecraft-on-ubuntu-or-any-other-linux-distribution/

 

Also you might want to get the kid started on like dota 2, minecraft is nice for creativity, but some hard logic and reaction time building is going to be good too, it runs on linux as well, not sure exactly how well though.

 

really though windows is probably fine just for ease of use and game compatibility

"Ported to linux" It's java! Install openJDK (Which, unlike windows, doesn't have adware bundled and comes from the OS repository) and run it! There's no porting. This is how it works on windows as well, except on windows you have to be savvy and decline ASK toolbar and Yahoo search and all the assorted BS...

 

Edit: Also, that howtogeek thing is waaay overcomplicated. It's 2 commands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing New Builds and Planning

×