Creative Labs ZxR Soundcard Inquiry - URGENT help :(

[BigBowlOfNothing]

17 hours ago, Dackzy said:

adds bass or something else, I explain it in my post about amp and dacs.

Dackzy, though unrelated, how was your experience with the HiFiman's 560s? A buddy of mine is wondering whether to purchase them or go for the HD600s.

[seduce_me]

1 hour ago, BigBowlOfNothing said:

Dackzy, though unrelated, how was your experience with the HiFiman's 560s? A buddy of mine is wondering whether to purchase them or go for the HD600s.

 

 

[Dackzy]

2 hours ago, BigBowlOfNothing said:

Dackzy, though unrelated, how was your experience with the HiFiman's 560s? A buddy of mine is wondering whether to purchase them or go for the HD600s.

pretty good headphones, I lile them better than the HD600 because the bass is really really good and they are very detailed at the same time. One thing to note is that Hifiman does not have a very good quality control. They cost almost 1100 euro in the EU, where the 600 cost I think it's about 400 euro I could be wrong. If he buys them he should also buy the focus A pads from Hifiman. And no I did not pay 1100 euro for my pair, I paid 500 euro and also got a pair of re400i for free.

[rcole134]

18 hours ago, Dackzy said:

no a dac adds nothing. When we talk coloring we talk about the dac and amp adding bass or something else it can be trebble or mids not noise. Yes headphones and speakers "colors" the sound, but a dac and amp should not add anything their job is to make a digital signal to an analog one an well amp it, not to add things and if you read my post I say that a amp and dac should be transparent aka not add anything. But nice try with that argument

Sorry to disagree but any time a dac decodes a digital signal back to analogue it adds something. If you don't believe me then look it up. If they didn't there wouldn't be such a large difference in there pricing just for starters. 

[Dackzy]

16 minutes ago, rcole134 said:

Sorry to disagree but any time a dac decodes a digital signal back to analogue it adds something. If you don't believe me then look it up. If they didn't there wouldn't be such a large difference in there pricing just for starters. 

They do not add anything if they are transparent and if they add something it's so little that the human ear cant hear it. And if you look up the noise floor up you will see that it's something the human ear cant hear.

The reason there is such a large difference is that they are better when you look at the math, but in real life a human cant hear it, even me with super hearing cant hear the difference between a 200-300$ combo and a 1000$ combo if they both are transparent. Just because things cost more does not mean that they are better, just look at beats by dre. You do know that a lot of things in many songs never have been analog right and Yes I have looked all this up I have also done blind test with the schiit uber stack and some 3000$ dac and amp and nobody could hear the difference between them because they are both transparent. Remember just because the math shows there are a difference does not mean that you can hear the difference.

I think you are thinking about tube amps they distort the sound and makes the sound a little warmer or a lot depending on the tubes you have.

Yes I have a way better hearing than what a human should have, I was tested on Aarhus university hospital.

[rcole134]

Just now, Dackzy said:

They do not add anything if they are transparent and if they add something it's so little that the human ear cant hear it. And if you look up the noise floor up you will see that it's something the human ear cant hear.

The reason there is such a large difference is that they are better when you look at the math, but in real life a human cant hear it, even me with super hearing cant hear the difference between a 200-300$ combo and a 1000$ combo if they both are transparent. Just because things cost more does not mean that they are better, just look at beasts. You do know that a lot of things in many songs never have been analog right and Yes I have looked all this up I have also done blind test with the schiit uber stack and some 3000$ dac and amp and nobody could hear the difference between them because they are both transparent. Remember just because the math shows there are a difference does not mean that you can hear the difference.

I think you are thinking about tube amps they distort the sound and makes the sound a little warmer or a lot depending on the tubes you have.

Yes I have a way better hearing than what a human should have, I was tested on Aarhus university hospital.

But they are different. No matter how much people argue there not, they are. The fact they use different parts and cost different amounts demonstrates it. 

[Dackzy]

1 minute ago, rcole134 said:

But they are different. No matter how much people argue there not, they are. The fact they use different parts and cost different amounts demonstrates it. 

Yes but that does not mean that there is a real life difference in the sound, is that really so hard for you to understand? Us humans has very bad hearing when you compare us to other animals, if we had the same hearing as a dog then we might be able to hear it. I dont care about what the math says, if it doesn't show a difference in real life. This is all the snake oil in the industri about expensive cables that doesn't do shit and 5k dac and amps that sound the same as a 300$ one, they can hear a difference because their brain is telling them that their thing is more expensive and therefore it is better, there have been done so many test about this, if you make two cakes and you say one of them cost 1k and the other one cost 100$ then they will say the one that cost 1k are better even though they are the same cake.

[rcole134]

Just now, Dackzy said:

Yes but that does not mean that there is a real life difference in the sound, is that really so hard for you to understand? Us humans has very bad hearing when you compare us to other animals, if we had the same hearing as a dog then we might be able to hear it. I dont care about what the math says, if it doesn't show a difference in real life. This is all the snake oil in the industri about expensive cables that doesn't do shit and 5k dac and amps that sound the same as a 300$ one, they can hear a difference because their brain is telling them that their thing is more expensive and therefore it is better, there have been done so many test about this, if you make two cakes and you say one of them cost 1k and the other one cost 100$ then they will say the one that cost 1k are better even though they are the same cake.

Going back to the comment on the sound card my point is this. Different DAC's sound different depending on there parts and what you have connected to them. Sound cards sound different for the same reasons. Headphones and speakers sound different depending on there parts and there setup. Saying that a particular brand of sound card in this case makes everything sound colourful isn't a fact. Its your opinion and the sound colour you went on about could easily be a result of whatever headphones or speakers you have plugged into it as well as what ever software your using to drive it. Basically its all about preference. Cables on the other hand don't really do anything unless there carrying a purely analogue signal.  

[Dackzy]

Just now, rcole134 said:

Going back to the comment on the sound card my point is this. Different DAC's sound different depending on there parts and what you have connected to them. Sound cards sound different for the same reasons. Headphones and speakers sound different depending on there parts and there setup. Saying that a particular brand of sound card in this case makes everything sound colourful isn't a fact. Its your opinion and the sound colour you went on about could easily be a result of whatever headphones or speakers you have plugged into it as well as what ever software your using to drive it. Basically its all about preference. Cables on the other hand don't really do anything unless there carrying a purely analogue signal.  

This brand is coloring the sound so a normal human can hear it, there are so many people that says the same thing and creative is not a brand that makes transparent dac and amps, so no this is not an opinion.

If you just was reading what I wrote then you will see that I am right and that all transparent amps and dacs sound the same because the human ear cant hear a difference. A amp and dac does are plug and play not something you need to install drivers for and no headphones has nothing to do with this. I have tested all my headphones (15+) with over 20 different amps and dacs and all creative amps and dacs was making the sound warmer while all the other ones that said they were transparent was sounding the same. I have only had two of the amps making the sound different in my HE 560 because they could not give them enough power. I think you need to get some real life experience and go try blinds test with amps and dacs, then you will hear that I am right.

The way you find the sound you like is with headphones and EQ not with a dac because it's job is making the digital sound to analog with out coloring it, and you could get an amp to color your sound, but then you will be using a tube amp.

Audio is not as simple as you want it to be where it's just specs and thats it. You should more see audio as a living thing.

[rcole134]

Just now, Dackzy said:

This brand is coloring the sound so a normal human can hear it, there are so many people that says the same thing and creative is not a brand that makes transparent dac and amps, so no this is not an opinion.

If you just was reading what I wrote then you will see that I am right and that all transparent amps and dacs sound the same because the human ear cant hear a difference. A amp and dac does are plug and play not something you need to install drivers for and no headphones has nothing to do with this. I have tested all my headphones (15+) with over 20 different amps and dacs and all creative amps and dacs was making the sound warmer while all the other ones that said they were transparent was sounding the same. I have only had two of the amps making the sound different in my HE 560 because they could not give them enough power. I think you need to get some real life experience and go try blinds test with amps and dacs, then you will hear that I am right.

The way you find the sound you like is with headphones and EQ not with a dac because it's job is making the digital sound to analog with out coloring it, and you could get an amp to color your sound, but then you will be using a tube amp.

Audio is not as simple as you want it to be where it's just specs and thats it. You should more see audio as a living thing.

Its not that I'm disagreeing with you its that I'm pointing out the fact that all sound card makers, DAC makers etc do the exact same thing. Colouring as you put it is still an opinion. Its about personal preference. Again a fact. Its probably best that we just agree to disagree and move on :-) 

[Dackzy]

2 minutes ago, rcole134 said:

Its not that I'm disagreeing with you its that I'm pointing out the fact that all sound card makers, DAC makers etc do the exact same thing. Colouring as you put it is still an opinion. Its about personal preference. Again a fact. Its probably best that we just agree to disagree and move on :-) 

Sure