Before you buy amp and DAC + recommendations.

[Dackzy]

3 minutes ago, Almond said:

well I got recommended the headphones from another post I've created and the person said the bass is pretty good on the set. If we're talking about AMP then maximum £50 as I don't really want to spend more money as the headphones themselves were pretty expensive. I could return the headphones and buy a different pair but im not sure. I have 29 days left to test drive these 3 pairs and ill see at the end of the day which one I could leave behind as my day to day use.

Seems like you want some bass-head headphones, like the Sennheiser HD7DJ or HD8DJ.

We all have different taste in headphones, so what might be more than enough or too much for some, might be too little for you.

 

Also 50£ is not going to give you anything that is worth it, same up and get a fulla 2, it should be about 110£ for you.

[BestPCBuilder2017]

Your post contains some grammatical errors 

[Dackzy]

3 hours ago, NCIX Lampy said:

Your post contains some grammatical errors 

Uhm okay? I kinda expected that, since this is not my native language and I have a hard time with languages.

Why do you bring it up?

[BestPCBuilder2017]

3 hours ago, Dackzy said:

Uhm okay? I kinda expected that, since this is not my native language and I have a hard time with languages.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my bad

3 hours ago, Dackzy said:

Why do you bring it up?

Because they're issues that should be corrected 

[Dackzy]

Just now, NCIX Lampy said:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my bad

Because they're issues that should be corrected 

well that is kinda hard for me to do....

You are ofc welcome to correct them for me.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Dackzy said:

well that is kinda hard for me to do....

You are ofc welcome to correct them for me.

Really!? Damn, @Dackzy, I just appreciate you taking the time to shoot the shit (explain & communicate) on the forum. I don't expect the Queen's English nor grammar. Keep it comming, eh. ??

[Dackzy]

20 minutes ago, PrometheanCat2 said:

Really!? Damn, @Dackzy, I just appreciate you taking the time to shoot the shit (explain & communicate) on the forum. I don't expect the Queen's English nor grammar. Keep it comming, eh. ??

yeah it has always been my weak point. You know longer words are hard to read, can't hear how things are spelled and so on, nothing too special. 

Thank you very much, happy to see that some appreciate what I am doing.  

[Wyre]

Thank you for posting this, you put a lot of what is available into fairly sharp perspective. I know plenty of people that have sat down and listened to my setup and couldn't tell a difference between the onboard sound of my motherboard (it isnt terrible... but it isnt great either), and my Schiit stack Magni 2 Uber/Modi 2 Uber through a pair of Audio Technica ATH-W1000x.

 

Type	Closed-back Dynamic
Driver Diameter	53 mm
Voice Coil	OFC-6N
Frequency Response	5 – 42,000 Hz
Maximum Input Power	2,000 mw
Sensitivity	100 dB/mW
Impedance	42 ohms
Weight	350 g
Cable	3.0 m Y-type, PCOCC conductor cord with elastomer sheath
Connector	1/4" (6.3 mm) gold-plated wooden plug

 

---

HOUSING: North American Black Cherry 

 

With a 100dB/mW rating they are fairly sensitive. There is not a lot of inline resistance @ 42 ohm. However, when you throw good clean power to them, they just come alive. The cans start picking up a lot of detail that is otherwise missing. The bass becomes tighter, and more controlled.

 

Now, the friends of mine that have the ear (can pick up tiny nuances in music) are completely floored by the power and precision of this setup. I can not recommend Schiit any higher. I had a DAC fail on me after nearly 2 years, they replaced it with the new model without question. Amazing support from that company.

 

Audio Technica ATH-W1000x:

 

Bass: Tight, clean, warm punches to your temporal lobes. Warm without sounding muddy would be a pretty good way to put it.

 

Mids: Nicely mixed between the bass and the higher registers, with a nice warm mid-bass roll. Excellent for female voices... 

 

Highs: Slightly bright, good sparkle, and crystal clear. Very fast responses from the 53mm drivers.

 

Overall I have nearly 1000 hours on these headphones. Some of the best cans that I have ever owned.

[Bradders]

On 09/03/2016 at 1:48 AM, Dackzy said:

Okay guys I have seen a lot of people on here is starting to wanting to buy amps and dacs and let me just explain to you guys why you need one and why you don't need one. This is going to be very basic and generalised.

 

Reasons to get a DAC.

 

1. Noise in your sound

2. Your onboard makes the sound warm or cold sounding

3. Over all low quality sound coming from your onboard

4. Can look nice

 

Reasons to NOT get a DAC.

 

1. No noise.

2. No coloring in your onboard.

3. You already have transparent sound. ( kinda the same as Nr. 2)

4. Takes up space.

5. You will need to buy an amp.

 

Reasons to get a AMP.

 

1. You cant power your headphones. (your headphones don't get loud enough)

2. Your headphones sound muddy only at that pc (kinda the same as Nr. 1)

3. Can look nice.

4. You want to try tube sound. (they get really hot, so do NOT touch them.)

 

Reasons to NOT get a AMP.

 

1. You can power your headphones.

2. Takes up space.

 

Most motherboards on the market to day can power 90%-95% of all the headphones on the market. A DAC and amp will not make your headphones better if you already have transparent sound and they are powered properly.

Save the money and get better headphones if you are unhappy by the sound you have in your headphones.

 

Ohm does not say if your headphones are hard to drive or not.

 

You can have 600 Ohm headphones that are easier to drive than 32 Ohm headphones. It is the sensitivity and efficiency that matters the most.

A very quick exsample of this would be the K612 and the HE 560. The K612 has a ohm rating of 120 Ohm and a sensitivity rating of 101 SPL/V, while the HE 560 has a Ohm rating of 45 Ohm and a efficiency rating of 90 SPL/mW. Using a online calculator we get these results, which shows that the HE 560 will need more power than the K612, despite the K612 having a Ohm rating that is almost three times higher than the HE 560's.

I used this website to calculate the power needed http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html

  Reveal hidden contents

Hifiman HE 560

 

AKG K612 pro

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wnat to know how much power your headphones need and the math behind it? Look here

  Reveal hidden contents

Okay let’s explain this a bit more. Headphone drivers have efficiency that is shown as dB/mW or SPL/mW, but they also have a thing called sensitivity which is shown as dB/V or SPL/V, some headphone manufactors will list the sensitivity while others will list the efficiency, so how do you convert dB/mW to dB/V? It is actually really easy.

 

The formula goes like this , just remember that multiplying sign is “stronger” than plus or minus, the same goes for dividing sing, so you must multiply and divide before you minus.

 

If you want to make dB/V into then the formula goes like this 

 

Let us take a little example with the DT 770 80 Ohm. They have a efficiency of 96 SPL/mW, so let’s see what that is in SPL/V

 

Okay that gives us a sensitivity of about 107 SPL/V, let us see if this is correct

Yep it matches up.

 

Now we can calculate how much power they need.

We are going to calculate our desired loudness to be 110dB, why? It is a good middle ground, which has a leeway of about +/- 5dB on either side. Pop music and compressed music has a peak SPL of about 105dB, while high dynamic range audio, like audiophile recordings has 115dB peak.

Let’s get on with the math.

We are first going to look at the calculation using the efficiency

We are first going to calculate the required power in milliwatts and we are again going to use the DT 770 80 ohm.

 

The Formulas goes like this

Now let’s put in our numbers

 

Let us now find out the milliamps with this formula

Now we put our numbers in

 

Now let’s find the voltage that we need

 

Now we know the voltage, the watt and the ampere we need to get them to play at 110 dB.

 

Let us now make the calculation with sensitivity.

 

We start with the required voltage.

Which we use this formula for

We have our sensitivity from before which was about 107 dB/V, so now we just plug our numbers in

 

We can now find the required power with this formula

This should give about 25 mW, just like what we got when we calculated the required power with efficiency

 

Lastly, we have the current aka the milliamps. We are just going to divide the mW with the V

And that is how you calculate the required power, volts and current with efficiency and sensitivity.

 

You can also use a website like this one to calculate everything for you.

http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Different explanations (keeping it simple)

  Reveal hidden contents

Noise: you have crakling or some other sound that should not be there.

 

Warm sound: You have more bass and lower mids in your sound when you use your headphones with that pc.

 

Cold sound: You have more treble and less bass in your sound when you use your headphones with that pc.

 

Coloring: Your soundcard adds treble/bass/mids.

 

Transparent: your soundcard does not add any extra treble/bass/mids to the sound.

 

Tube amp/tube sound: A tube amp generally makes the sound smoother and warmer because it distorts the sound.

 

 

Before you go buy an amp for some headphones you just orded wait get the headphones and test them with your onboard before you go spend money on a amp.

Before you go buy an DAC amp combo, if you already has transparent sound and you have nothing wrong with your onboard DAC then you will not notice a difference between your onboard and a DAC and if you buy an DAC you will need an amp.

 

Remember sound is not black and white like some people say it is, there are more to sound than just specs.

 

Only look down here if you really need an DAC and amp or just an amp

 

Why get anything else than the cheap products?

  Reveal hidden contents

Okay, we have probably all been looking into some audio gear and seen a price where we just thought "WTF is going on here?". So now let me explain why we have audio gear that cost way over 1000$. This will be simple and VERY general, it is just to give you an idea of why.

 

DISCLAIMER: Just because something cost a lot, doesn't mean it is actually good or anything like that.

First DACs.

When you look at DACs, then you might have come across some that cost 1200$, but why are they better than the 100$ one? A DAC, takes your digital signal and makes it analog, but in the process of the digital signal being transformed into analog and out to your headphone amp or speaker amp it goes through many different components, which all add their own little "touch" to the end signal, each component will add some distortion in some way, which will change the sound a tiny bit or maybe a lot (depending on the part). 

 

The higher end DACs will use higher quality parts which in return means less distortion, but distortion is not everything, it is actually far from everything, let me explain. If you look at specs of a DAC you might see something like ES9018 or AK4490 in your 200$ DAC, but at the same time you might also see them in a DAC that cost 800$, so why is that? Well to put it simply, the implementation of the chip becomes better, which leads to more detail and overall cleaner sound, maybe even a bigger soundstage and better imaging. So the audio quality actually sees a bump. Once you go with the "higher end" DACs you also start to get balanced outputs such as dual 3 pin XLR and multiple inputs, some which you might never have seen before. Only you can say if it is worth it for you to pay maybe upwards of 2300$ for a DAC.

 

I think we covered the reasoning behind higher end DACs, now amps.
When you hear the word amp, you might think that an amp just amplifies a signal up and yes that is the basics of it, but amps also have their own sound, some might bring out some more bass, while others might tame the treble a bit. The cheap amps might have an output impedance of 20 ohms, while a high-end one might be 1 ohm, but why does this matter? the 20-ohm amp wouldn't be able to be used with IEMs without a lot of noise and distortion, while the 1-ohm amp wouldn't have those problems, but that isn't all. If you go through my list of amp recommendations and leave out the tube amps, then the power they give out it cleaner, less colored, don't drown the small details out and so on. You also start to see that some headphone amps get balanced inputs and output.

If you plan to really get into this and want high-end gear, then I would recommend reading up on some terms like: Speed, clarity, macrodynamics, microdynamics and microdetail (some calls this plankton). Though most of them kinda say what they are in their name. Also trust your own ears more than you trust other people and remember to test the actual gear before you buy it. So again the actual audio quality goes up.

 

I think this covers the basics of why we have the very expensive gear. Though I must add that some headphones will show a difference more clearly than others would. The Sennheiser HD 800's are known for being very picky, when it comes to amps and DACs and will show a bigger difference between different DACs and amps than a pair of AD500x's would or something like that, so also take your headphones into consideration when you pick up a new DAC or new amp or both.

 

I have used amazon.de and amazon.com for every product that is not from Schiit where I used their own webshop

 

Before looking at tube amps

A tube amp is best with headphones that have a high impedance because it is there they have their power, while a normal solid state amp normally has the most power in the lower ohms. I highly recommend not getting a tube amp for let's say 35 Ohm headphones, but rather a tube hybrid amp which is a mix of a tube and solid state amp, you get the sound of tubes while still having the power in the lower Ohms.

 

My recommendations for desktop amps:

  Reveal hidden contents

Schiit Magni 2 EU= 120€ US= 99$

This is pretty much the go toamp if you have 100$, it can output a whole 1.2W at 32 Ohm and it has a clean detailed sound and offers great value. It has a low high gain switch on the back where you also find the power on off switch and the stereo RCA input.

 

Schiit Magni 2 Uber EU= 175€ US= 149$

This is a Magni 2 with even more power and preout, so you can connect it to some powered speakers and control them with this. The max output goes from 1.2W at 32 Ohm to 1.5W at 3.2 Ohm.

 

 

Schiit vali 2  (tube hybrid)  EU= 189€ US= 169$

Not much to say about this tube amp, Schiit wanted to make a good cheap tube amp and they did, with a max output of 1000mW at 32 Ohm, this is a damn impressive little tube amp and it is easy to roll tubes with it, since it only has one tube.

 

 

Little Dot MK2 MKII (tube) EU= 185€ US= 185-200$

This is a cheap tube amp, it doesn’t have a lot of power behind it with 300mW at 300 Ohm and 100mW at 32 Ohm, but it has preout, which means that you can give your powered speakers a “tube sound”. Don’t touch it while it is one, because it is very hot. It offers good audio quality for the price and it will make your headphones sound warmer.

 

 

Schiit Asgard 2 EU= 259€ US= 249$

This is yet another amp from Schiit that offers a lot of power with 1W at 32 Ohm and very clean and detailed sound, it is one of the warmer sounding solid state amps, but not close to tube.

 

 

DarkVoice 336SE (tube) EU= 320€ US= 320$.

This is an amp that doesn’t really do anything impressive, but it offers a decent value. It is a very warm tube amp and it has preout. I would recommend only picking this up when it is on massdrop or just go with a Vali 2 or Valhalla 2.

 

 

Schiit Valhalla 2 (tube amp) EU= 379€ US= 349$

This is yet another great tube amp from Shiit, it offers great audio quality for the price, it has a maximum output of 180mW at 50 Ohm which is often more than enough, but at 300 Ohm it has a maximum output of 800mW. It is very clean and detailed with good staging, but it is a bit lean. It pairs well with high impedance headphones.

 

 

Schiit Lyr 2 (tube hybrid or Solid state amp) EU= 459€ US= 449$

This is a powerful hybrid amp, that has a warm and intimate sound. It had a more dynamic sound compared to the Valhalla, but the sound staging is also closer. It is a very good hybrid tube amp to consider if you are looking for a hybrid tube amp.

 

Meier Audio Corda Classic EU= 595€ US=575

If you are looking for a very analytical and neutral amp then this is the amp to get, I have yet to hear a single amp under 1200$ that offer this kind of neutrallity. It is made with very high quality parts that you ussually don't see in this budget that often and it offers two inputs, so you can hook it up to two different DACs if you desiere to do so. If this matters to you then you should know it is made by a guy in Germany.

 

 

My recommendations for desktop DACs:

  Reveal hidden contents

Schiit Modi 2 EU=125€  US= 100$

This is a entry level DAC with USB input, it offers a good quality bump over onboard, but it cannot compete with higher end DACs when it comes to detail and precision, this is for most people all that they need. It can also only connect to one amp at a time via RCA. It has a bit of the "thick" lows that some schiit DACs have.

 

Micromega MyDAC EU=220€  US= 375$

The pricing on this goes up and down. It offers you you three ways to connect it to your PC, you can choose between digital coaxial, optical toslink and USB, but it only has one stereo output. It offers a good soundstage for this price and the overall sound of it is very smooth.

 

Rotel RDD-1580 EU= 800€ US= 800$

This is a do it all kind of DAC, it has six inputs which include digital coaxial, optical toslink and USB, plus it has bluetooth so you can stream the music from your phone to it. It hits a good balance between features and sound, while still being made very well. It offers stereo balanced out and unbalanced RCA out.

 

Schiit Gungnir multibit EU= 1300€ US=1249$

For the price this is a very nice R2R DAC, but you need to keep it on all of the time to get the best audio from it, since some of the compoments in it works best when they hit a given temperature, this is very normal when it comes to R2R DACs. The sound is a bit warm nothing special at all and not even close to what a warm headphone is. over all it is a very resolving DAC. for inputs it offers you digital coaxial, optical toslink, USB and AES3id. It has two unbalanced stereo RCA outputs and a stereo balanced output.

 

Schiit Yggdrasil EU= 2590€ US= 2300$

The bigger brother of the Gungnir multibit, the sound isn't as warm and more resolving, but you are also paying for it. Though this is still a very good DAC for the price and it competes with DACs that cost a lot more. for inputs it offers you digital coaxial, optical toslink, USB and AES3id. 

It has two unbalanced stereo RCA outputs and a stereo balanced output.

1

 

My recommendations for desktop Combos:

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Micca origen+ EU=140€  US= 110$

This is a great alternative to the Fulla 2, especially if you want optical in which the Fulla 2 lacks. It has pre-out so you can control powered speakers with it, just like the Fulla 2. It has both an optical and USB input.

 

Schiit Fulla 2  EU= 99€ US= 99$

Pretty much the best combo you can get for 99$ or 99€, more than powerful for a lot of headphones, while still having high audio quality like the rest of Schiit products. If you don't NEED the power of a Schiit stack, then get this one. It only has a single USB input.

 

Audio-GD NFB-11.28

This one is a bit harder to get your hands on, but it is worth it. It has a very transparent sound with a lot of detail and offers a lot of power.

It has USB, optical and coaxial inputs. It just got upgraded with a Sabre 9028, instead of a 9018 and some other small upgrades.

You can buy from them directly here for 330$ (without shipping), if you are in EU then I have found it here for 409€ (without shipping)

 

RME ADI-2 Pro EU= 1590€ US= 1999$

This combo is about as good as it gets without spending an veryobsene amount of money and even then it would be hard to find one that beats it in terms of detail and neutrallity.

It is a bit weird though with only one balanced headphone output and no unbalanced output. It offers many different feature you can go read up on.

 

 

 

My recommendations for small Combos that run on usb only:

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Audioquest DragonFly EU= 148€ US= 149$

Not much to say about this little combo, it isn't the best value in terms of audio quality, but it is small and convinient.

 

Fiio k1 EU= 50€ US= 40$ (on sale)
Only look at this if you need something really cheap. I would only get this if your onboard is broken.

 

Oppo HA-2 EU= 300€ US= 300$

you can use this one with a phone and it has a build in battery. It is very beautifully made and offers good audio quality for the price especially if you need something on the go.

 

Chord MoJo EU= 499€ US= 499$ 

It is a good combo if you want high audio quality on the go, but you are also paying for it. It doesn't have any special features other than the distinkt design, but it does offer you a good value if you want very good audio quality on the go.

 

Where do I find schiit in EU?

http://www.schiit-europe.com/

http://schiit.eu.com/   (UK)

 

Lastly if you have interference look at this guide SSL has made.

FEEL FREE TO ASK ME ANYTHING ABOUT THIS POST  

There are no stupid questions, I am here to help  

I hope that this post helped you and cleared some things up for you  

If you want something added or explained then PM me or comment.

 

The update is soon over  

small question, Would you get an AMP or DAC for some Bose QC 35?

[Dackzy]

2 hours ago, Bradders said:

small question, Would you get an AMP or DAC for some Bose QC 35?

I wouldn't really recommend getting one for those headphones 1. Because they are wireless with a wire as an option 2. They are easy to drive and not that detailed, but if you had to get one just get the fulla 2

[Bradders]

16 hours ago, Dackzy said:

I wouldn't really recommend getting one for those headphones 1. Because they are wireless with a wire as an option 2. They are easy to drive and not that detailed, but if you had to get one just get the fulla 2

ok, ill probably just leave it then, could you recommend any good speakers? looking to play some music in my room and wouldnt mind mounting a couple speakers, bonus if theyre wireless! price range is flexible but looking around £200-300

[Dackzy]

4 hours ago, Bradders said:

ok, ill probably just leave it then, could you recommend any good speakers? looking to play some music in my room and wouldnt mind mounting a couple speakers, bonus if theyre wireless! price range is flexible but looking around £200-300

well the best speakers in that price range is the LSR 305's, you should be able to find them in your budget. I have seen some people say that the Kanto YU4 are decent.

[Jayvee3492]

On 3/8/2016 at 0:48 PM, Dackzy said:

Okay guys I have seen a lot of people on here is starting to wanting to buy amps and dacs and let me just explain to you guys why you need one and why you don't need one. This is going to be very basic and generalised.

 

Reasons to get a DAC.

 

1. Noise in your sound

2. Your onboard makes the sound warm or cold sounding

3. Over all low quality sound coming from your onboard

4. Can look nice

 

Reasons to NOT get a DAC.

 

1. No noise.

2. No coloring in your onboard.

3. You already have transparent sound. ( kinda the same as Nr. 2)

4. Takes up space.

5. You will need to buy an amp.

 

Reasons to get a AMP.

 

1. You cant power your headphones. (your headphones don't get loud enough)

2. Your headphones sound muddy only at that pc (kinda the same as Nr. 1)

3. Can look nice.

4. You want to try tube sound. (they get really hot, so do NOT touch them.)

 

Reasons to NOT get a AMP.

 

1. You can power your headphones.

2. Takes up space.

 

Most motherboards on the market to day can power 90%-95% of all the headphones on the market. A DAC and amp will not make your headphones better if you already have transparent sound and they are powered properly.

Save the money and get better headphones if you are unhappy by the sound you have in your headphones.

 

Ohm does not say if your headphones are hard to drive or not.

 

You can have 600 Ohm headphones that are easier to drive than 32 Ohm headphones. It is the sensitivity and efficiency that matters the most.

A very quick exsample of this would be the K612 and the HE 560. The K612 has a ohm rating of 120 Ohm and a sensitivity rating of 101 SPL/V, while the HE 560 has a Ohm rating of 45 Ohm and a efficiency rating of 90 SPL/mW. Using a online calculator we get these results, which shows that the HE 560 will need more power than the K612, despite the K612 having a Ohm rating that is almost three times higher than the HE 560's.

I used this website to calculate the power needed http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html

  Reveal hidden contents

Hifiman HE 560

 

AKG K612 pro

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wnat to know how much power your headphones need and the math behind it? Look here

  Reveal hidden contents

Okay let’s explain this a bit more. Headphone drivers have efficiency that is shown as dB/mW or SPL/mW, but they also have a thing called sensitivity which is shown as dB/V or SPL/V, some headphone manufactors will list the sensitivity while others will list the efficiency, so how do you convert dB/mW to dB/V? It is actually really easy.

 

The formula goes like this , just remember that multiplying sign is “stronger” than plus or minus, the same goes for dividing sing, so you must multiply and divide before you minus.

 

If you want to make dB/V into then the formula goes like this 

 

Let us take a little example with the DT 770 80 Ohm. They have a efficiency of 96 SPL/mW, so let’s see what that is in SPL/V

 

Okay that gives us a sensitivity of about 107 SPL/V, let us see if this is correct

Yep it matches up.

 

Now we can calculate how much power they need.

We are going to calculate our desired loudness to be 110dB, why? It is a good middle ground, which has a leeway of about +/- 5dB on either side. Pop music and compressed music has a peak SPL of about 105dB, while high dynamic range audio, like audiophile recordings has 115dB peak.

Let’s get on with the math.

We are first going to look at the calculation using the efficiency

We are first going to calculate the required power in milliwatts and we are again going to use the DT 770 80 ohm.

 

The Formulas goes like this

Now let’s put in our numbers

 

Let us now find out the milliamps with this formula

Now we put our numbers in

 

Now let’s find the voltage that we need

 

Now we know the voltage, the watt and the ampere we need to get them to play at 110 dB.

 

Let us now make the calculation with sensitivity.

 

We start with the required voltage.

Which we use this formula for

We have our sensitivity from before which was about 107 dB/V, so now we just plug our numbers in

 

We can now find the required power with this formula

This should give about 25 mW, just like what we got when we calculated the required power with efficiency

 

Lastly, we have the current aka the milliamps. We are just going to divide the mW with the V

And that is how you calculate the required power, volts and current with efficiency and sensitivity.

 

You can also use a website like this one to calculate everything for you.

http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Different explanations (keeping it simple)

  Reveal hidden contents

Noise: you have crakling or some other sound that should not be there.

 

Warm sound: You have more bass and lower mids in your sound when you use your headphones with that pc.

 

Cold sound: You have more treble and less bass in your sound when you use your headphones with that pc.

 

Coloring: Your soundcard adds treble/bass/mids.

 

Transparent: your soundcard does not add any extra treble/bass/mids to the sound.

 

Tube amp/tube sound: A tube amp generally makes the sound smoother and warmer because it distorts the sound.

 

 

Before you go buy an amp for some headphones you just orded wait get the headphones and test them with your onboard before you go spend money on a amp.

Before you go buy an DAC amp combo, if you already has transparent sound and you have nothing wrong with your onboard DAC then you will not notice a difference between your onboard and a DAC and if you buy an DAC you will need an amp.

 

Remember sound is not black and white like some people say it is, there are more to sound than just specs.

 

Only look down here if you really need an DAC and amp or just an amp

 

Why get anything else than the cheap products?

  Reveal hidden contents

Okay, we have probably all been looking into some audio gear and seen a price where we just thought "WTF is going on here?". So now let me explain why we have audio gear that cost way over 1000$. This will be simple and VERY general, it is just to give you an idea of why.

 

DISCLAIMER: Just because something cost a lot, doesn't mean it is actually good or anything like that.

First DACs.

When you look at DACs, then you might have come across some that cost 1200$, but why are they better than the 100$ one? A DAC, takes your digital signal and makes it analog, but in the process of the digital signal being transformed into analog and out to your headphone amp or speaker amp it goes through many different components, which all add their own little "touch" to the end signal, each component will add some distortion in some way, which will change the sound a tiny bit or maybe a lot (depending on the part). 

 

The higher end DACs will use higher quality parts which in return means less distortion, but distortion is not everything, it is actually far from everything, let me explain. If you look at specs of a DAC you might see something like ES9018 or AK4490 in your 200$ DAC, but at the same time you might also see them in a DAC that cost 800$, so why is that? Well to put it simply, the implementation of the chip becomes better, which leads to more detail and overall cleaner sound, maybe even a bigger soundstage and better imaging. So the audio quality actually sees a bump. Once you go with the "higher end" DACs you also start to get balanced outputs such as dual 3 pin XLR and multiple inputs, some which you might never have seen before. Only you can say if it is worth it for you to pay maybe upwards of 2300$ for a DAC.

 

I think we covered the reasoning behind higher end DACs, now amps.
When you hear the word amp, you might think that an amp just amplifies a signal up and yes that is the basics of it, but amps also have their own sound, some might bring out some more bass, while others might tame the treble a bit. The cheap amps might have an output impedance of 20 ohms, while a high-end one might be 1 ohm, but why does this matter? the 20-ohm amp wouldn't be able to be used with IEMs without a lot of noise and distortion, while the 1-ohm amp wouldn't have those problems, but that isn't all. If you go through my list of amp recommendations and leave out the tube amps, then the power they give out it cleaner, less colored, don't drown the small details out and so on. You also start to see that some headphone amps get balanced inputs and output.

If you plan to really get into this and want high-end gear, then I would recommend reading up on some terms like: Speed, clarity, macrodynamics, microdynamics and microdetail (some calls this plankton). Though most of them kinda say what they are in their name. Also trust your own ears more than you trust other people and remember to test the actual gear before you buy it. So again the actual audio quality goes up.

 

I think this covers the basics of why we have the very expensive gear. Though I must add that some headphones will show a difference more clearly than others would. The Sennheiser HD 800's are known for being very picky, when it comes to amps and DACs and will show a bigger difference between different DACs and amps than a pair of AD500x's would or something like that, so also take your headphones into consideration when you pick up a new DAC or new amp or both.

 

I have used amazon.de and amazon.com for every product that is not from Schiit where I used their own webshop

 

Before looking at tube amps

A tube amp is best with headphones that have a high impedance because it is there they have their power, while a normal solid state amp normally has the most power in the lower ohms. I highly recommend not getting a tube amp for let's say 35 Ohm headphones, but rather a tube hybrid amp which is a mix of a tube and solid state amp, you get the sound of tubes while still having the power in the lower Ohms.

 

My recommendations for desktop amps:

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Schiit Magni 2 EU= 120€ US= 99$

This is pretty much the go toamp if you have 100$, it can output a whole 1.2W at 32 Ohm and it has a clean detailed sound and offers great value. It has a low high gain switch on the back where you also find the power on off switch and the stereo RCA input.

 

Schiit Magni 2 Uber EU= 175€ US= 149$

This is a Magni 2 with even more power and preout, so you can connect it to some powered speakers and control them with this. The max output goes from 1.2W at 32 Ohm to 1.5W at 3.2 Ohm.

 

 

Schiit vali 2  (tube hybrid)  EU= 189€ US= 169$

Not much to say about this tube amp, Schiit wanted to make a good cheap tube amp and they did, with a max output of 1000mW at 32 Ohm, this is a damn impressive little tube amp and it is easy to roll tubes with it, since it only has one tube.

 

 

Little Dot MK2 MKII (tube) EU= 185€ US= 185-200$

This is a cheap tube amp, it doesn’t have a lot of power behind it with 300mW at 300 Ohm and 100mW at 32 Ohm, but it has preout, which means that you can give your powered speakers a “tube sound”. Don’t touch it while it is one, because it is very hot. It offers good audio quality for the price and it will make your headphones sound warmer.

 

 

Schiit Asgard 2 EU= 259€ US= 249$

This is yet another amp from Schiit that offers a lot of power with 1W at 32 Ohm and very clean and detailed sound, it is one of the warmer sounding solid state amps, but not close to tube.

 

 

DarkVoice 336SE (tube) EU= 320€ US= 320$.

This is an amp that doesn’t really do anything impressive, but it offers a decent value. It is a very warm tube amp and it has preout. I would recommend only picking this up when it is on massdrop or just go with a Vali 2 or Valhalla 2.

 

 

Schiit Valhalla 2 (tube amp) EU= 379€ US= 349$

This is yet another great tube amp from Shiit, it offers great audio quality for the price, it has a maximum output of 180mW at 50 Ohm which is often more than enough, but at 300 Ohm it has a maximum output of 800mW. It is very clean and detailed with good staging, but it is a bit lean. It pairs well with high impedance headphones.

 

 

Schiit Lyr 2 (tube hybrid or Solid state amp) EU= 459€ US= 449$

This is a powerful hybrid amp, that has a warm and intimate sound. It had a more dynamic sound compared to the Valhalla, but the sound staging is also closer. It is a very good hybrid tube amp to consider if you are looking for a hybrid tube amp.

 

Meier Audio Corda Classic EU= 595€ US=575

If you are looking for a very analytical and neutral amp then this is the amp to get, I have yet to hear a single amp under 1200$ that offer this kind of neutrallity. It is made with very high quality parts that you ussually don't see in this budget that often and it offers two inputs, so you can hook it up to two different DACs if you desiere to do so. If this matters to you then you should know it is made by a guy in Germany.

 

 

My recommendations for desktop DACs:

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Schiit Modi 2 EU=125€  US= 100$

This is a entry level DAC with USB input, it offers a good quality bump over onboard, but it cannot compete with higher end DACs when it comes to detail and precision, this is for most people all that they need. It can also only connect to one amp at a time via RCA. It has a bit of the "thick" lows that some schiit DACs have.

 

Micromega MyDAC EU=220€  US= 375$

The pricing on this goes up and down. It offers you you three ways to connect it to your PC, you can choose between digital coaxial, optical toslink and USB, but it only has one stereo output. It offers a good soundstage for this price and the overall sound of it is very smooth.

 

Rotel RDD-1580 EU= 800€ US= 800$

This is a do it all kind of DAC, it has six inputs which include digital coaxial, optical toslink and USB, plus it has bluetooth so you can stream the music from your phone to it. It hits a good balance between features and sound, while still being made very well. It offers stereo balanced out and unbalanced RCA out.

 

Schiit Gungnir multibit EU= 1300€ US=1249$

For the price this is a very nice R2R DAC, but you need to keep it on all of the time to get the best audio from it, since some of the compoments in it works best when they hit a given temperature, this is very normal when it comes to R2R DACs. The sound is a bit warm nothing special at all and not even close to what a warm headphone is. over all it is a very resolving DAC. for inputs it offers you digital coaxial, optical toslink, USB and AES3id. It has two unbalanced stereo RCA outputs and a stereo balanced output.

 

Schiit Yggdrasil EU= 2590€ US= 2300$

The bigger brother of the Gungnir multibit, the sound isn't as warm and more resolving, but you are also paying for it. Though this is still a very good DAC for the price and it competes with DACs that cost a lot more. for inputs it offers you digital coaxial, optical toslink, USB and AES3id. 

It has two unbalanced stereo RCA outputs and a stereo balanced output.

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My recommendations for desktop Combos:

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Micca origen+ EU=140€  US= 110$

This is a great alternative to the Fulla 2, especially if you want optical in which the Fulla 2 lacks. It has pre-out so you can control powered speakers with it, just like the Fulla 2. It has both an optical and USB input.

 

Schiit Fulla 2  EU= 99€ US= 99$

Pretty much the best combo you can get for 99$ or 99€, more than powerful for a lot of headphones, while still having high audio quality like the rest of Schiit products. If you don't NEED the power of a Schiit stack, then get this one. It only has a single USB input.

 

Audio-GD NFB-11.28

This one is a bit harder to get your hands on, but it is worth it. It has a very transparent sound with a lot of detail and offers a lot of power.

It has USB, optical and coaxial inputs. It just got upgraded with a Sabre 9028, instead of a 9018 and some other small upgrades.

You can buy from them directly here for 330$ (without shipping), if you are in EU then I have found it here for 409€ (without shipping)

 

RME ADI-2 Pro EU= 1590€ US= 1999$

This combo is about as good as it gets without spending an veryobsene amount of money and even then it would be hard to find one that beats it in terms of detail and neutrallity.

It is a bit weird though with only one balanced headphone output and no unbalanced output. It offers many different feature you can go read up on.

 

 

 

My recommendations for small Combos that run on usb only:

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Audioquest DragonFly EU= 148€ US= 149$

Not much to say about this little combo, it isn't the best value in terms of audio quality, but it is small and convinient.

 

Fiio k1 EU= 50€ US= 40$ (on sale)
Only look at this if you need something really cheap. I would only get this if your onboard is broken.

 

Oppo HA-2 EU= 300€ US= 300$

you can use this one with a phone and it has a build in battery. It is very beautifully made and offers good audio quality for the price especially if you need something on the go.

 

Chord MoJo EU= 499€ US= 499$ 

It is a good combo if you want high audio quality on the go, but you are also paying for it. It doesn't have any special features other than the distinkt design, but it does offer you a good value if you want very good audio quality on the go.

 

Where do I find schiit in EU?

http://www.schiit-europe.com/

http://schiit.eu.com/   (UK)

 

Lastly if you have interference look at this guide SSL has made.

FEEL FREE TO ASK ME ANYTHING ABOUT THIS POST  

There are no stupid questions, I am here to help  

I hope that this post helped you and cleared some things up for you  

If you want something added or explained then PM me or comment.

 

The update is soon over  

You still dont recommend any Ifi Audio? im looking at ifi audio idsd le

[Dackzy]

13 minutes ago, Jayvee3492 said:

You still dont recommend any Ifi Audio? im looking at ifi audio idsd le

I personally haven't had the best experience with their products and the places I have been able to find ifi products in EU they have simply been too expensive for what you get.

 

If someone find a place In EU that sells their products for a fair price and ship to the whole of EU then please link it to me and if you want me to add something fast then you need to send me the product or else there can go up to 2-3 months before I add it,  since then I will have to read a lot about it or hunt down a place where I can try it. The wait is long because I still go on a university and there are other things I also have to do. 

[Jayvee3492]

1 hour ago, Dackzy said:

I personally haven't had the best experience with their products and the places I have been able to find ifi products in EU they have simply been too expensive for what you get.

 

If someone find a place In EU that sells their products for a fair price and ship to the whole of EU then please link it to me and if you want me to add something fast then you need to send me the product or else there can go up to 2-3 months before I add it,  since then I will have to read a lot about it or hunt down a place where I can try it. The wait is long because I still go on a university and there are other things I also have to do. 

I can buy Audioengine D1 for $170.00 

ifi nano iDSD LE for $135.00

Audioquest Dragonfly Red for $200-220

Fiio products. those are what i can buy in the philippines. Whats the best bang for the buck for me? HE 400i btw.

i cant get Schiit here unless i ship it from us  

Next Ifi Audio product thats a Amp/Dac is too expensive for me. like $400

https://www.facebook.com/pg/eggheadph/ <- facebook page of where im going to shop

[Dackzy]

4 minutes ago, Jayvee3492 said:

I can buy Audioengine D1 for $170.00 

ifi nano iDSD LE for $135.00

Audioquest Dragonfly Red for $200-220

Fiio products. those are what i can buy in the philippines. Whats the best bang for the buck for me? HE 400i btw.

i cant get Schiit here unless i ship it from us  

Next Ifi Audio product thats a Amp/Dac is too expensive for me. like $400

https://www.facebook.com/pg/eggheadph/ <- facebook page of where im going to shop

Yeah there I would probably pick the ifi nano iDSD le over the other options. 

[Jayvee3492]

11 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

Yeah there I would probably pick the ifi nano iDSD le over the other options. 

Would it be okay with He400i? Ifi Nano is better than the Audioengine d1? or is it because of the $35 difference?

[Dackzy]

2 minutes ago, Jayvee3492 said:

Would it be okay with He400i? Ifi Nano is better than the Audioengine d1? or is it because of the $35 difference?

The d1 is overpriced and the ifi should be just fine for he400i. It looks like you can test in store. 

[Jayvee3492]

2 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

The d1 is overpriced and the ifi should be just fine for he400i. It looks like you can test in store. 

Yep  they do that in store. but problem is i have to drive 1-2 hours to go to that store. thats why i need planning.  

 

Please let me know if you  have other recommendations 

[Dackzy]

5 minutes ago, Jayvee3492 said:

Yep  they do that in store. but problem is i have to drive 1-2 hours to go to that store. thats why i need planning.  

 

Please let me know if you  have other recommendations 

Well you can basically read all of my recommendations in this thread. Maybe see if you can't get the monoprice desktop amp, it is a combo even though it is not in its name. 

[Jayvee3492]

3 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

Well you can basically read all of my recommendations in this thread. Maybe see if you can't get the monoprice desktop amp, it is a combo even though it is not in its name. 

Im currently at work. ill take a look at this thread when i get home or when i have free time. was only able to look at your first page post. 

[Dackzy]

10 minutes ago, Jayvee3492 said:

Im currently at work. ill take a look at this thread when i get home or when i have free time. was only able to look at your first page post. 

Well all the recommendations are on the first page. 

[Jayvee3492]

14 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

Well all the recommendations are on the first page. 

Only problem with your suggestions is i cant get them. either theyre out of budget or not available here.

[Dackzy]

2 minutes ago, Jayvee3492 said:

Only problem with your suggestions is i cant get them. either theyre out of budget or not available here.

Yeah well I try to do my best with availability when it comes to recommending gear, but I can only do so much. 

[Firesorce]

I bought the HD6XXs and a Massdrop O2 amp.

 

I don't have a DAC, and use a $30 MATX trash motherboard, with free noise and warm sounds.

 

Do I buy the Schiit Magni 2 dac or the SMSL magic hifi 32bit 384khz?