Apple Releases opening statement to congress

[8uhbbhu8]

http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/29/11133266/apple-fbi-judiciary-committee-encryption-statement

 

 

So Apple has released their opening statement to the USA Congress as a start to defending their position on resisting the FBIs' efforts to get them to unlock an Iphone (and more) in the "Apple vs FBI" case.

 (you can read more about this here): 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Now Apple goes through all the basic arguments:

Quote

The FBI has asked a Court to order us to give them something we don’t have. To create an operating system that does not exist — because it would be too dangerous

Quote

building that software tool would not affect just one iPhone

Quote

Hundreds of millions of law-abiding people trust Apple’s products

......

But they also make other points which it seems the general public forgets about when "National Security" gets mentioned.

Quote

Do we want to put a limit on the technology that protects our data, and therefore our privacy and our safety, in the face of increasingly sophisticated cyber attacks?

Quote

Hundreds of millions of law-abiding people trust Apple’s products with the most intimate details of their daily lives

Now this has been debated thousands of times by now but I think its still not enough. Security is paramount in our society. ESPECIALLY personal security. I have no sympathy for terrorists but even if Apple does go ahead with what the FBI wants it could still take years to crack the code and by that time any information gleaned (if the phone wasn't already wiped) would be useless.

 

The problem is its not just about 1 iphone. There are (so far) around 175 iphones the FBI has later admitted they would use the software on.

Quote

District Attorney Vance has also said he would absolutely plan to use this on over 175 phones

 

So what was about 1 iphone has turned into over 175..... legally this shouldn't be possible considering the warrant conditions and that everything was stated to be only about the san Bernardino phone.

 

Its going to be interesting to see what questions congress asks Apple and what the answers will be. I also think that this case will be a landmark case for encryption and security in general considering how Apple will decide to act after this is all over in terms of adding even more security to their phones.

 

 

 

[rockking1379]

Yeah only about one phone. We all knew it was never about one phone. Once the first domino falls, the rest shall follow

[Prysin]

nobody ever would be mad enough to take Apple to court over ONE phone....

 

except samsung

[KemoKa]

Attached is the legal response Apple gave to the FBI. It's 65 pages of brutal common sense and rock-solid case law, it is amazing, and you should all read it. The lawyers who wrote this just completely eviscerated the FBI's case. If this case were akin a medieval battle in a castle, the lawyer would have single-handedly slaughtered everyone in the castle, blood everywhere, all that good stuff. It's Sir Lancelot from Monty Python and the Holy Grail when he attacks the Swamp Castle.

300522240-Motion-to-Vacate-Brief-and-Supporting-Declarations.pdf

[allindaze]

Apple has a good point to argue that if the perceived security of their product comes into question with this tool being available all of their company's stock value would suffer by losing the public's confidence in the security of their products.

[ADZ_123_!"£]

What the hell is going on why am I backing Apple!?!?!?

[Bensemus]

21 minutes ago, KemoKa said:

Attached is the legal response Apple gave to the FBI. It's 65 pages of brutal common sense, and it is amazing, and you should all read it. The lawyers who wrote this just completely eviscerated the FBI's case. If this case were akin a medieval battle in a castle, the lawyer would have single-handedly slaughtered everyone in the castle, blood everywhere, all that good stuff.

300522240-Motion-to-Vacate-Brief-and-Supporting-Declarations.pdf

Only on page 16 and it's already wreaking the FBIs claims. Too bad no on will read this.

[ChineseChef]

I am just curious how the FBI/Gov't/et al. would react if they found out that Apple was going to install a backdoor for China, or Russia.  The US gov't would lose their shit, yet we feel we can do it because we are the world, and the rest of the countries are simply allowed to exist.

 

If the FBI win this case, and Apple is forced to make this program, international sales will likely dive.  And other nations will likely demand the same level of access.  And then how soon until the major governments can access every phone from every nation?  And how quickly will hackers break in when it is basically told to the world, that there is a backdoor into every phone?

 

It starts with one tool, that works on one type of phone.  Then it becomes legislated that all phones must allow gov't backdoor access.  And that isn't even a stretch, they will just go all Patriot Act on the phone makers and carriers.

[KemoKa]

1 minute ago, ChineseChef said:

I am just curious how the FBI/Gov't/et al. would react if they found out that Apple was going to install a backdoor for China, or Russia.  The US gov't would lose their shit, yet we feel we can do it because we are the world, and the rest of the countries are simply allowed to exist.

 

If the FBI win this case, and Apple is forced to make this program, international sales will likely dive.  And other nations will likely demand the same level of access.  And then how soon until the major governments can access every phone from every nation?  And how quickly will hackers break in when it is basically told to the world, that there is a backdoor into every phone?

 

It starts with one tool, that works on one type of phone.  Then it becomes legislated that all phones must allow gov't backdoor access.  And that isn't even a stretch, they will just go all Patriot Act on the phone makers and carriers.

And then everyone will use burner phones for their basic communication needs, because as we saw from the Paris Bombings, unencrypted SMS traffic has historically been all but unmonitored.

[8uhbbhu8]

5 minutes ago, ChineseChef said:

I am just curious how the FBI/Gov't/et al. would react if they found out that Apple was going to install a backdoor for China, or Russia.  The US gov't would lose their shit, yet we feel we can do it because we are the world, and the rest of the countries are simply allowed to exist.

 

If the FBI win this case, and Apple is forced to make this program, international sales will likely dive.  And other nations will likely demand the same level of access.  And then how soon until the major governments can access every phone from every nation?  And how quickly will hackers break in when it is basically told to the world, that there is a backdoor into every phone?

 

It starts with one tool, that works on one type of phone.  Then it becomes legislated that all phones must allow gov't backdoor access.  And that isn't even a stretch, they will just go all Patriot Act on the phone makers and carriers.

You have a very good point there and it's just another reason why we Apple NEEDS to win this. Personally if I could and if it was practical I would encrypt the wazoo out of every device I own so it would be virtually impossible to get at. Unfortunately that means tons of more overhead needed for unlocking the devices every-time I need to access them and for me right now is just not practical

[ChineseChef]

3 minutes ago, KemoKa said:

And then everyone will use burner phones for their basic communication needs, because as we saw from the Paris Bombings, unencrypted SMS traffic has historically been all but unmonitored.

Actually, this makes me wonder.  At what point will someone release a phone, that actually makes it mainstream, that will basically just be a blank OS.  Similar to Windows/OSX/Linux, in the sense that you get hardware, and basic software that simply manages your connection to your carrier.  But its up to you to actually install a phone program, and messenger program.  And you can install apps that will auto record your calls, or auto encrypt everything.  Basically just a regular PC, but in a phone form factor.  Or simply a phone that is designed from the ground up to give the user root control.

 

Would these types of phone become illegal?  I am really wondering at what point the war between how incredibly simple encryption is to use, will come to head with the gov'ts insane desire to control the people.  And when it does happen, will we few be silenced by the uncaring masses?  Or will the masses actually do something?  My greatest fear is that we will become the horrid dystopia, and it will be to the thunderous applause and tearful gratitude of the ignorant and indifferent masses.  That we who see the problems this will cause will be silenced, either with actual force, or simply the knowledge that it is waiting for us.

[Blade of Grass]

2 hours ago, 8uhbbhu8 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

So what was about 1 iphone has turned into over 175..... legally this shouldn't be possible considering the warrant conditions and that everything was stated to be only about the san Bernardino phone.

The specific condition of the warrant/case are almost irrelevant to the precedent that is set. What the court is doing here is interpreting the All Writs Act of 1789 in a way that gives the government the power to compel a corporation to create a back door into their product. This precedent would then become universally usable as they've essentially (not really, but for an easy explanation it helps to say it) re-written the law to permit this. 

[Bensemus]

45 minutes ago, Bensemus said:

https://linustechtips.com/main/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=150183

It's painful reading this. I have no education in law so there may be some key aspects going over my head but it seems like every law written in regards to encryption and the governments ability to control 3rd-partys is in Apple's favour. Multiple times its stated that the government examined whether or not 3rd-parties should be able to be forced to make non existing software or hardware and decided that they aren't required too.

 

 

[KemoKa]

1 hour ago, Bensemus said:

It's painful reading this. I have no education in law so there may be some key aspects going over my head but it seems like every law written in regards to encryption and the governments ability to control 3rd-partys is in Apple's favour. Multiple times its stated that the government examined whether or not 3rd-parties should be able to be forced to make non existing software or hardware and decided that they aren't required too.

Not only that, but just the Court's invocation of the All Writs Act is overstepping the jurisdiction it gives the judicial. It was never made to handle a case like this, and it is not even within the power of the courts to use it to the end of rewriting, overturning or even updating law. That power remains in the hands of Congress. So the Judicial's use of the Act is entirely baseless and without cause. It is not legally permissible per Congress' declaration to use the All Writs Act to give a government body unlimited power and authority and it is disingenuous and false for them to willfully interpret it as such.

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, KemoKa said:

Attached is the legal response Apple gave to the FBI. It's 65 pages of brutal common sense and rock-solid case law, it is amazing, and you should all read it. The lawyers who wrote this just completely eviscerated the FBI's case. If this case were akin a medieval battle in a castle, the lawyer would have single-handedly slaughtered everyone in the castle, blood everywhere, all that good stuff. It's Sir Lancelot from Monty Python and the Holy Grail when he attacks the Swamp Castle.

300522240-Motion-to-Vacate-Brief-and-Supporting-Declarations.pdf

cit. Wendell

[captain cactus]

4 hours ago, KemoKa said:

Attached is the legal response Apple gave to the FBI. It's 65 pages of brutal common sense and rock-solid case law, it is amazing, and you should all read it. The lawyers who wrote this just completely eviscerated the FBI's case. If this case were akin a medieval battle in a castle, the lawyer would have single-handedly slaughtered everyone in the castle, blood everywhere, all that good stuff. It's Sir Lancelot from Monty Python and the Holy Grail when he attacks the Swamp Castle.

300522240-Motion-to-Vacate-Brief-and-Supporting-Declarations.pdf

That was a brilliant read. The Federal Bureau of Incompetence got totally rekt and then flushed down the shitter.

 

Though I do have one little tiny bit of criticism: they keep talking about this case as if it's only affecting iPhones. It's not. Everything running iOS is affected. iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad are all affected. If you wanna make the case clear, account the sales of those devices as a whole since it's affecting them as a whole. That's over a billion (yes, billion) devices. That should clear some minds.

[imperialplanet]

IF the fbi wins the case than they will go after every tech company and will tell them to install a backdoor. 

[Bensemus]

2 hours ago, imperialplanet said:

fbi wins the case than they will go after every tech company and will tell them to install a backdoor. 

If they win then every government could go after every company. Once one does it they will all want the same access so as to not be left behind.