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WelshDdraig

WOOTING One: The Worlds first Modern Analog Mechanical Keyboard

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3 hours ago, Enderman said:

-snip-

Digital IS either 1 or 0, by combining multiple 0s and 1s you get binary, and a scale, that has steps.

Analogue doesn't have strict steps or values. Analogue can be a decimal value.

Anyway if you claim that you can't pass analogue data to a digital computer through a digital interface, how do all those analogue devices connected through digital interfaces to digital computers work?

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24 minutes ago, Alexp10v2 said:

Heard of an ADC (Analog Digital Converter)? It could be the switch is analog, sends data to a microcontroller which converts the signal to digital. (Just my hypothesis, not sure if thats how they are intending it to work)

All switches on keyboards are analogue. The switches on your keyboard right now are analogue.

20 minutes ago, Snooli said:

 

You can also have a digital variable control. Velocity sensitive pads are digital. volume controls on high end audio equipment are digital. those all detect more than "on" or "off"

 

 

Calling a keyboard "analogue" because it has pressure sensitivity is completely wrong. Learn your definitions


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2 minutes ago, Snooli said:

Anyway if you claim that you can't pass analogue data to a digital computer through a digital interface, how do all those analogue devices connected through digital interfaces to digital computers work?

He never even said that.


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Just now, Ramamataz said:

He never even said that.

 

28 minutes ago, Enderman said:

thats not analogue

thats just pressure sensitive switches

 

analogue would be one key is pressed = certain voltage sent to computer

another key pressed = different voltage sent to computer

which you cant do because USB is digital not analogue

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Snooli said:

 

Guess I was wrong. Am guessing he's assuming it's a USB keyboard.


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Just now, Ramamataz said:

Guess I was wrong. Am guessing he's assuming it's a USB keyboard.

detachable micro-universal serial bus.

Hope they change it to C

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52 minutes ago, Enderman said:

All switches on keyboards are analogue. The switches on your keyboard right now are analogue.

You can also have a digital variable control. Velocity sensitive pads are digital. volume controls on high end audio equipment are digital. those all detect more than "on" or "off"

 

 

Calling a keyboard "analogue" because it has pressure sensitivity is completely wrong. Learn your definitions

You're sounding like a bit of a nitpicker right now. Everyone knows your keyboard is not going to be sending pressure waves to your computer, of course it's digital. Maybe using analog to describe pressure sensitive switches is purely marketing in which case you should be attacking Wooting and not the people who are merely discussing their product. That being said analog refers to a continuous variable signal which in this case the keyboard provides. So you're wrong.

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1 hour ago, Snooli said:

It doesn't have to be supported. Just some remapping app. Make the games think it's a more usual analog gamepad.

 

W=Xbox360 leftstick +y

A=Xbox360 leftstick -x

S=Xbox360 leftstick -y

D=Xbox360 leftstick +x

That implies that for most of the games you'll have to use an external software to map this. Plus, there's some games that don't mix keyboard and joystick input... 

 

But yeah, I always wondered why this didn't exist. Pretty cool if it becomes mainstream ! 

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Looks pretty darn interesting. Wonder how much it will cost. I don't know if I will ditch my MX Blacks for it though.


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3 minutes ago, Vivilacqua1 said:

Looks pretty darn interesting. Wonder how much it will cost. I don't know if I will ditch my MX Blacks for it though.

They appear to be "red" switches. So if you wouldn't mind less resistance, might be worth a try. However, we need retailers to jump on this. I don't buy one, until I try one.

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6 minutes ago, dmegatool said:

That implies that for most of the games you'll have to use an external software to map this. Plus, there's some games that don't mix keyboard and joystick input... 

 

But yeah, I always wondered why this didn't exist. Pretty cool if it becomes mainstream ! 

What I am hoping for is a 1st party remap program. Also there shouldn't be any problem mapping any keyboard button to any gamepad button. (or even to analog stick)

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5 minutes ago, allindaze said:

You're sounding like a bit of a nitpicker right now. Everyone knows your keyboard is not going to be sending pressure waves to your computer, of course it's digital. Maybe using analog to describe pressure sensitive switches is purely marketing in which case you should be attacking Wooting and not the people who are merely discussing their product. That being said analog referes to a continuous variable signal which in this case the keyboard provides. So you're wrong.

My entire point is that it is wrong to call this keyboard analogue because all keyboards use analogue switches

This keyboard isnt special because its "analogue" unless it actually sent purely analogue signals to the PC which is not possible though USB

This keyboard is special because it uses pressure sensitive switches, which are still analogue like regular switches, just with a different design and properties

 

57 minutes ago, Snooli said:

Digital IS either 1 or 0, by combining multiple 0s and 1s you get binary, and a scale, that has steps.

Analogue doesn't have strict steps or values. Analogue can be a decimal value.

Anyway if you claim that you can't pass analogue data to a digital computer through a digital interface, how do all those analogue devices connected through digital interfaces to digital computers work?

Nope thats not what digital is

Thats one of the forms of digital, 0s and 1s, but thats not what differentiates it from analogue

 

First of all, you need to understand that all keyboards are analogue because they have switches that move. You press it, and it creates an analogue signal. This signal is then encoded by the microcontroller in the keyboard into a digital signal that is then sent to the PC over USB

 

Second, you need to realize that there are digital switches called MOSFETs and transistors which have no moving parts. Those are completely digital because they take in a signal and output a signal without any physical movement.

 

Third, not everything digital can only be on or off. Volume controls on many devices (the big knob you turn) is digital. The more you turn it, the digital signal changes, changing the volume. This is why they have no "turn limit" like an analogue potentiometer does. They can turn infinitely, and all that matters is if they are giving an increasing or decreasing digital reading. If the volume is ready at minimum, but you keep turning the know, you still send a digital signal saying to turn the volume down but it does not decrease any further than the software limit. THis is an example of a digital control which has more than 0 and 1 options.


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1 minute ago, Enderman said:

-snip-

OK, you lost me there

What makes a mechanical switch analogue, but doesn't make digital volume knobs analogue too?

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2 minutes ago, Enderman said:

My entire point is that it is wrong to call this keyboard analogue because all keyboards use analogue switches

This keyboard isnt special because its "analogue" unless it actually sent purely analogue signals to the PC which is not possible though USB

This keyboard is special because it uses pressure sensitive switches, which are still analogue like regular switches, just with a different design and properties

Nit picking.

 

Wooting is saying the "inputs are analog", which they are. They're simply slapping the term on their product to differentiate it from typical mechanical keyboards which do not have pressure sensitive keys. It's simply marketing.

 

You're saying it's wrong to call it analog when in the same breath you're arguing that all keyboards are analog. So which is it? If you're upset at their marketing team then join the rest of us.

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Ben Heck made something like this using hall effect sensors and magnets on the keys. It seemed to work really well. interested to see something like this in a commercial product.


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19 minutes ago, zMeul said:

would this is even be HID compliant!?!?

it sounds to me this will need some XInput like drivers

100% drivers needed.

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So now the switches used in electric pianos are now being put into keyboards...

 

TAKE MY MONEY.

 

In other cases, here I am trying to analogRead with buttons using an Arduino without much success... RIP 


Your resident osu! player, destroyer of keyboards.

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50 minutes ago, Snooli said:

OK, you lost me there

What makes a mechanical switch analogue, but doesn't make digital volume knobs analogue too?

the fact that the output of the analogue switch depends on the position, for example up = off and down = on

the digital volume knob doesnt depend on position

 

you can turn the knob to increase the volume, but then you can lower the volume again to previous level with a remote, and the knob doesnt turn back

 

if it was analogue, aka using a potentiometer, the knob would have to be turned by either you or a motor to its previous position for the volume to be the same, because the potentiometer depends on the position of the knob, like 10 degrees turned, or 15 degrees turned, or whatever :)


My sound system costs more than my PC.        Check out my S340 build log "White Heaven"        The "LIGHTCANON" flashlight build log        Project AntiRoll (prototype)        Custom speaker project

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56 minutes ago, Enderman said:

My entire point is that it is wrong to call this keyboard analogue because all keyboards use analogue switches

This keyboard isnt special because its "analogue" unless it actually sent purely analogue signals to the PC which is not possible though USB

This keyboard is special because it uses pressure sensitive switches, which are still analogue like regular switches, just with a different design and properties

 

Nope thats not what digital is

Thats one of the forms of digital, 0s and 1s, but thats not what differentiates it from analogue

 

First of all, you need to understand that all keyboards are analogue because they have switches that move. You press it, and it creates an analogue signal. This signal is then encoded by the microcontroller in the keyboard into a digital signal that is then sent to the PC over USB

 

Second, you need to realize that there are digital switches called MOSFETs and transistors which have no moving parts. Those are completely digital because they take in a signal and output a signal without any physical movement.

 

Third, not everything digital can only be on or off. Volume controls on many devices (the big knob you turn) is digital. The more you turn it, the digital signal changes, changing the volume. This is why they have no "turn limit" like an analogue potentiometer does. They can turn infinitely, and all that matters is if they are giving an increasing or decreasing digital reading. If the volume is ready at minimum, but you keep turning the know, you still send a digital signal saying to turn the volume down but it does not decrease any further than the software limit. THis is an example of a digital control which has more than 0 and 1 options.

1. Regular keyboard keys do not send analog signals. They are either open or closed. There is no variable resistance or conductance involved.

2. Transistors are analogue.

 

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That is one odd looking DAC

 

Oh wait...


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3 minutes ago, Prolapser said:

sounds shit. don't care for it.

It sounds nice to me. I'm tired of having to hold the shift button the entire time to run.

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