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DX12: Say Goodbye to Red vs Green?

Omon_Ra
10 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I saw some tests on this a while back and iirc some odd things were true.  Like for one, the order mattered (980 ti + fury x performed different than fury x + 980 ti) and (again iirc) mixed brand setups (or at least one of them ) beat everything else, even dual 980 tis ... I really have to find that report again and make sure though :D

Ah, OK I did some digging because this was bothering me (since clearly there are still some people I wanted to see this :) like below)

14 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

I mean cool but really if say a 980 is better then a whatever on the AMD side wouldn't you just get 2 980s? The technology is cool and probably has some great benefits but I would get 2 980tis rather then a 980ti and a fury x

So this was a test from before the recent news (Oct last year) and I think it's pretty interesting.  Here we can see two strange things:

 

1 - The order of cards matters

The Fury X + 980 Ti is faster than a 980 Ti + Fury X.  This seems to show something about how this technology works; my interpretation is there is kind of a "primary" and "secondary" card and which one is in the lead can help (or hurt) the setup.

 

2 - A mixed setup is better than all one company

Notice the 980 Ti + Titan X setup (which for all intents and purposes is basically 2x 980 Ti SLI) and how it is worse than both mixed-vendor setups.  Now, the obvious explanation is that "oh, that means the 980 ti is the weaker card, and it's dragging down the Fury X in both cases.  Two Fury Xs should beat the mixed setup".  But then how do you explain 1 980 Ti beating 1 Fury X? (see below)

 

78164.png

 

I just find these results very strange, and would welcome any alternate impressions/interpretations, especially in light of the recent news (in the OP) :) 

 

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16 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Ah, OK I did some digging because this was bothering me (since clearly there are still some people I wanted to see this :) like below)

 

So this was a test from before the recent news (Oct last year) and I think it's pretty interesting.  Here we can see two strange things:

 

1 - The order of cards matters

The Fury X + 980 Ti is faster than a 980 Ti + Fury X.  This seems to show something about how this technology works; my interpretation is there is kind of a "primary" and "secondary" card and which one is in the lead can help (or hurt) the setup.

 

2 - A mixed setup is better than all one company

Notice the 980 Ti + Titan X setup (which for all intents and purposes is basically 2x 980 Ti SLI) and how it is worse than both mixed-vendor setups.  Now, the obvious explanation is that "oh, that means the 980 ti is the weaker card, and it's dragging down the Fury X in both cases.  Two Fury Xs should beat the mixed setup".  But then how do you explain 1 980 Ti beating 1 Fury X? (see below)

 

78164.png

 

I just find these results very strange, and would welcome any alternate impressions/interpretations, especially in light of the recent news (in the OP) :) 

 

It's possible it has something to do with AMD already using bridgeless crossfire, which may give AMD an advantage in drivers, and delegating workloads more appropriately. AMD also handles scheduling in the GPU, while Nvidia handles scheduling entirely in software drivers. We've seen that Nvidia suffers a horrible latency penalty in VR because of this, so its possible that work isn't always being delegated to the AMD card in a timely manner when Nvidia is the primary card.

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12 hours ago, Centurius said:

This is either going to be great or flop. I so hope it'll be the former.

It all boils down to game developer adoptions. I hope all of them embraces the future that is now.

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5 minutes ago, Lethal Seraph said:

It all boils down to game developer adoptions. I hope all of them embraces the future that is now.

Yeah pretty much, though I fear for many it may be too complicated to bother with.

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11 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I saw some tests on this a while back and iirc some odd things were true.  Like for one, the order mattered (980 ti + fury x performed different than fury x + 980 ti) and (again iirc) mixed brand setups (or at least one of them ) beat everything else, even dual 980 tis ... I really have to find that report again and make sure though :D

That's cause Amd has better 12 support

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The real crazy thing is that multi-adapter performs better than sli or crossfire, in frame rate and frame times. 

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12 hours ago, dragosudeki said:

Doubt anyone is going to buy cards from both vendors (or completely different cards from same vendor) knowing that the number of DX 12 games (right now) is small, and the number of DX 12 games that use Explicit Multi GPU will be much more smaller than that.

This isn't for the people who buy 2 GPUs at once, this would be for someone like me who will ( hopefully ) have a 290x and say later down the road I get a nvidia GPU, I can add them together and maybe it say wouldn't be as good as 2x 1070s but at least I would be getting the most out of my PC.

 

 

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Those results are within margin of error. doesn't seem to mind which is the primary cars...

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16 hours ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

A 960 and 970 should already work as they are the same GPU die.

Nvidia just doesn't allow it, unlike AMD who let you Crossfire a 290 and a 290x, or a 7970 and a 7950 and a 280x.

 

Nvidia = Apple

 

BTW guys, now is the time to buy used HD 7990s and GTX 690s

Due to how those two cards are made. Just dont. The 6990 and 7990 uses on-pcb cf/sli bridges. The result is that they stutter like fucking crazy.

Titan Z uses onboard sli bridge too, but it is so severely underclocked it aint worth it.

The only real choice is a 980ti + fury x. Anything else is a waste of time and money

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22 hours ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

A 960 and 970 should already work as they are the same GPU die.

Nvidia just doesn't allow it, unlike AMD who let you Crossfire a 290 and a 290x, or a 7970 and a 7950 and a 280x.

 

Nvidia = Apple

 

BTW guys, now is the time to buy used HD 7990s and GTX 690s

They are actually 2 different dies.GTX 960 is GM206 and GTX 970 is GM204. SO what you said wouldn't work and no Nvidia is != to Apple.

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2 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

They are actually 2 different dies.GTX 960 is GM206 and GTX 970 is GM204. SO what you said wouldn't work and no Nvidia is != to Apple.

Dude

 

21 hours ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

 

Whoops, I mixed up: the GTX 760 and 770 were what was going through my head as I posted, not the 960 and 970.

But they still don't allow a 760 and a 770 to be SLi'd and so Nvidia = Apple.

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1 minute ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

Dude

 

But they still don't allow a 760 and a 770 to be SLi'd and so Nvidia = Apple.

Sorry for being a nerd who likes graphics cards :(

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

But they didn't test 2 amd cards. why?

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Is it actually limited to 2 cards, or does it support more than that?

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22 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Is it actually limited to 2 cards, or does it support more than that?

(Don't quote me on any of this since I may not be 100% correct but I believe there is a decent chance I am :))

 

That's the other cool thing about this - not only does it allow for mixed manufacturers, but gone are the 4 card limit of crossfire and SLI.  In theory, this can take advantage of as many cards are in the system! :D

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28 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Is it actually limited to 2 cards, or does it support more than that?

Don't know. But I would suspect it depends on the game, as DX 12 is low level, it needs more work done by the developers to do things. So performance is really game specific, and how multi-card works is all depending on the game. We need more games (and more documentation) to know more about it.

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On 2/25/2016 at 0:02 AM, Ryan_Vickers said:

That's why I worry about the whole concept of DX12 and Vulkan as well to be honest.  The idea is to give developers more low level control - more power if you will - so they can do exactly what they want an squeeze more performance out of the cards.  But if history can tell us anything, it's that most developers have a terrible track record of failing to implement or poorly implementing things like SLI/crossfire, or even general game optimization, so I'm not sure how anyone expects them to handle this and make things better.  It's like going up to a baby that can't walk and saying "OK, no rules - now you can run a marathon right?"

It will rather be the real programmers who will implement it into some game engine that would then be used by game developers. Let's just admit it , game developers are not the best programmers.

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9 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

(Don't quote me on any of this since I may not be 100% correct but I believe there is a decent chance I am :))

 

That's the other cool thing about this - not only does it allow for mixed manufacturers, but gone are the 4 card limit of crossfire and SLI.  In theory, this can take advantage of as many cards are in the system! :D

Good, tell linus to rebuild 7 gamers 1 cpu. :D

I want to see 7-gpu fury nano benchmarks!

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17 hours ago, samcool55 said:

Good, tell linus to rebuild 7 gamers 1 cpu. :D

I want to see 7-gpu fury nano benchmarks!

But that would make it a 1 cpu, 7 gpu, 1 gamer build :P

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2 hours ago, GidonsClaw said:

But that would make it a 1 cpu, 7 gpu, 1 gamer build :P

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Looking at this again, Crossfire+SLI=rekt by DX12, just like my laptop with its primary HD4250 and secondary HD5650.

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On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 5:32 AM, samcool55 said:

Is it actually limited to 2 cards, or does it support more than that?

the Vulkan and DX12 APIs are explicit enough to allow for any number of GPUs, or for sharing the load with iGPU etc.

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this would be really cool. I already can imagine systems with a bunch of cheap cards doing well lol

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