AMD zen based Opteron slides showcased in a debate at CERN

[Mr_Troll]

AMD’s Zen Based Opteron Processors To Feature 32 Cores in MCM Package – 8 Channel DDR4 Memory Support

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In a discussion related to technology and market trends for the data center, Liviu Valsan (computing engineer at CERN) showcased slides which detailed AMD’s upcoming Opteron processors that feature their x86 Zen core architecture. The session not only provided details on AMD’s next generation processors but also mentioned Intel’s Broadwell-EP chips along with enterprise aimed storage and memory Solutions

 

 

AMD’s Zen Powered Opteron To Boast 32 Cores With SMT – 8 Channel DDR4 Support

 

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AMD’s Opteron lineup hasn’t seen any significant update since 2011. The Opteron 6000 series processors that are available today are based on the older Piledriver architecture which was introduced back in 2012. The x86 Piledriver core delivers a modest update over the Bulldozer architecture hence the Opteron processors really couldn’t stand out against the Intel’s server offerings which picked up the pace since Sandy Bridge. However, AMD expects to change the scenario with Zen and come back in the data center market with faster next-gen Opteron processors which will deliver high core count, faster performance and improved efficiency on a 14nm process node.

 

The AMD Opteron processors should not be mistaken with the Exascale processor which is doing the rounds in the rumor mill. The Exascale processor is part of the HPC APU product stack which is a multi-chip package that comprises of several dies that incorporate Zen cores, GCN cores and DRAM stacks (HBM), interconnected via a faster coherent fabric that AMD has planned for their next generation exascale solutions and rumored to have interconnect speeds up to 100 GB/s. The AMD Opteron processors will solely comprise of a single or several CPU dies which will be interconnected to deliver high core count, disruptive memory bandwidth through using a combination DDR4 and HBM DRAMs and high native I/O capacity.

During the talks, the CERN official stated that AMD will be building their next generation Opteron processors with their Zen core architecture. The new Zen core is based on the 14nm FinFET technology that is being built developed by Global Foundries and is expected to deliver up to 40% IPC (Instructions per clock) improvement. The other key point mentioned is that the Opteron processors will feature up to 32 physical cores. All 32 cores are based on the Zen architecture and will feature SMT (Symmetrical Multi-Threading) which brings the AMD design closer to Intel’s design as they have been using Hyper threading for quite some time. The technology works is a similar way, albeit with some AMD added enhancements/tweaks.

 

One key point explained by Liviu is that AMD might go with the MCM design as they currently do with their Opteron 6300 series processors. The Opteron 6380 packs two 8 core “Piledriver” CPUs on a single die that functions as a single processor. The Zen based Opteron will pack two 16 core CPUs on a single die package which will function as a single 32 core Opteron chip. The two CPUs will be interconnected through the next gen fabric to eliminate data transfer and communication bottlenecks between the two chips. This information also gives us a slight bit hint at AMD’s design strategy. With Piledriver, AMD used two 8 core modules on their Opteron while 8 core was set as the highest count on consumer processors

 

 

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The 16 core count count mean that the consumer and server offerings with single chip packages can pack up to 16 cores. Although it would be AMD’s decision entirely to offer such SKUs in the market but having that many cores on consumer platforms will be interesting as Intel themselves have upped the core count to 10 with the upcoming Broadwell-E HEDT and 22 on the Broadwell-EP generation of processors. All Intel chips utilize a single CPU design unlike AMD’s MCM design.

Lastly, support for 8 channel DDR4 memory and PCI-e Gen 3.0 was mentioned. Eight channel sounds like a step up for AMD. AMD’s Opteron platform is expected to hit shelves later in 2017 while Intel has their Broadwell-EP platform launching in Q1 2016. AMD’s platform will be competing by then with Intel’s Purely platform that has Skylake-EP stacked up against it. While AMD’s Opteron platform looks decent enough against Broadwell-EP as it has 32 cores versus 22 on Intel, support for 8 channel DDR4 versus 4 channel DDR4 on Intel and a fast inter connect fabric, things might shape up more interesting witj 2017 purely which brings Intel’s latest micro-arch codenamed Skylake to the enterprise market. Nevertheless, AMD believes that they can address 80% of the server market with their Zen powered Opteron processors.

 

 

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Okay and then as a follow up, what kind of performance point should we look at your initial Zen in the server space, is it Xeon E3 class type products or E5s or maybe you can help with some granularity there if you can?

 

Yes, we believe that we’ll be able to address let’s call it you know 80% of the server CPU market with our Zen class of products. So that’s a very high end but you know really the meat of the market

 

 

Looks good on paper. 2017 will tell how good it really is .

 

Source: https://cds.cern.ch/record/2128536?ln=ja

http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-opteron-processor-32-core/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[patrickjp93]

8-channel DDR4? Interesting.

[don_svetlio]

32 cores? That's quite the amount for a single CPU

[don_svetlio]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

It's not meant for your average user, and AMD is trying to get its foot back into workstations+servers.  So, it's probably meant to replace multi-cpu situations where they do 2 16 cores to limit the socket count then up the RAM count to a few TBs.

Still. 32-core Opteron vs 18-core Xeon. I can already smell Linus' vulture-like eyes and grin as he thinks the same

[don_svetlio]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

Linus trying to grasp the core count.

 

-snip-

I'm actually surprised why LMG haven't done anything regarding the Wraith cooler seeing as many outlets are calling it "the best reference cooler ever made"

[Eroda]

nothing to stop dual socket MB running 64C/128T setup either but only time will tell

[don_svetlio]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

Intel is one of their primary sponsors, and AMD actually has to send them stuff.  Maybe not so much the first as it is the second.  Linus doesn't hate AMD or anything like that...they just don't send him much outside of GPUs.

True but I have called them out on multiple occasions when they "accidentally" forget to mention the things AMD has done right.

[Bananasplit_00]

Wow.. thats freaking awesome and insaine. hope its awesome

[don_svetlio]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

That might have to do with something they signed without reading with someone like Intel or another company.  Being a media group, if they are in a restricted contract like that their sponsor can sue the hell out of them.

Yet more reason to always read before writing

[Doobeedoo]

Looks insane on paper for Zen based Opteron CPU indeed.

As far as consumer Zen CPU I hope it shines. As far as core count that's coming in future CPUs I'm pleased. I'm still eagerly waiting on IPC performance, it seems it's going to be quite solid, as far as known info, no one can know exactly.

 

Ow and as far as clock speed and TDP of 95W I'd say it should definitely be 4+ GHZ for said performance. Though I've read it may be lower for reasons, but it would be quite odd then. Of course they're still in process of finalizing clock speeds, as said.

[Jahramika]

Actually it's greed that is the root of all evil not the money. People have a choice of how to use and accept it!

[VagabondWraith]

So how quickly does Intel start sabotaging AMD again if Zen starts taking marketshare from them? ?

[zMeul]

1 hour ago, patrickjp93 said:

8-channel DDR4? Interesting.

I might be looking at this wrong, but looks like they will split the cores in packages - basically having multi CPUs on the same die

didn't Intel do a similar thing with the 1st gen Core i ?! or was it earlier in Core DUO

[Jahramika]

5 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Linus a greedy person?

No its more like this; you get review samples to sell the product, or you don't get anything to review at all.

What do you think the impact will be if they don't get to put up videos of major items when it matters the most?

 

And then he doesn't have just his family to feed. He's an employer

Yes its sad that he has to put AMD products in a dark corner and let Nvidia's dbag moves slide.

This is just the world we live in.

NEver said that

[Bouzoo]

2 hours ago, don_svetlio said:

32-core Opteron vs 18-core Xeon

To be fair Skylake Xeons will have 28 cores, and iirc their Xeon Phi will have 72 cores iirc. 

[dalekphalm]

6 minutes ago, zMeul said:

I might be looking at this wrong, but looks like they will split the cores in packages - basically having multi CPUs on the same die

didn't Intel do a similar thing with the 1st gen Core i ?! or was it earlier in Core DUO

That's speculation only. The author is suggesting that AMD might do MCM (Combining multiple CPU die's onto the same CPU "package"), like they've historically done.

 

This is purely speculation by the author, and we'll have to wait and see if that is correct or not.

 

FYI, AMD and Intel have both historically used MCM to one degree or another:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-chip_module#Examples_of_MCM_technologies

Just now, Bouzoo said:

To be fair Skylake Xeons will have 28 cores, and iirc their Xeon Phi will have 72 cores iirc. 

The Xeon Phi is not an Apples to Apples comparison to a Xeon or Zen CPU. The Phi is more of a hybrid between GPGPU compute cores, and a traditional CPU. AFAIK, it also takes up an entire PCIe card slot as an add-in board.

 

So while it could possibly do many of the same things as a Zen CPU, it's hard to compare them exactly.

[420istoday]

2 hours ago, Eroda said:

nothing to stop dual socket MB running 64C/128T setup either but only time will tell

Now I have to go home and change my pants, thanks.

[Bouzoo]

39 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

The Xeon Phi is not an Apples to Apples comparison to a Xeon or Zen CPU. The Phi is more of a hybrid between GPGPU compute cores, and a traditional CPU. AFAIK, it also takes up an entire PCIe card slot as an add-in board.

 

So while it could possibly do many of the same things as a Zen CPU, it's hard to compare them exactly.

Fair enough. 

[Prysin]

3 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

8-channel DDR4? Interesting.

i wonder how that would affect their APUs though.

 

i mean, if you look at gaming loads you see massive jumps going from single to dual channel RAM. Now, server stuff is a different beast, but 8 channels sure should grant a hell of a lot of bandwidth.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Prysin said:

i wonder how that would affect their APUs though.

 

i mean, if you look at gaming loads you see massive jumps going from single to dual channel RAM. Now, server stuff is a different beast, but 8 channels sure should grant a hell of a lot of bandwidth.

In RAM intensive high-bandwidth applications/scenarios, going 8-channel is going to make a significant boost in performance. Though it will be pretty application specific as to whether you'd see any performance increase at all or not. In many server tasks, you probably won't see any increase at all.

[Dabombinable]

They need to stop with the slides at presentations and release the bloody new CPU line already.

[SurvivorNVL]

5 hours ago, don_svetlio said:

Still. 32-core Opteron vs 18-core Xeon. I can already smell Linus' vulture-like eyes and grin as he thinks the same

My first thought was, "Somehow zip-ties and a sample of the next generation Greenland card will be involved in the build log."

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

They need to stop with the slides at presentations and release the bloody new CPU line already.

If only it were that simple. But I'd rather them finish it, and make a proper product, rather than rushing and putting out another Bulldozer.

[Dabombinable]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

If only it were that simple. But I'd rather them finish it, and make a proper product, rather than rushing and putting out another Bulldozer.

Look at how long they've been working on it. Its been in development for a lot longer than Bulldozer and its derivatives.

[dalekphalm]

7 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Look at how long they've been working on it. Its been in development for a lot longer than Bulldozer and its derivatives.

Well they are building a new architecture from the ground up - sure, they might take bits and pieces from their current arch's, but I doubt they're taking too much.

 

Besides, I'm assuming at this point that the architecture itself is probably pretty well finalized and they're just working on getting ready to tape out and get engineering samples created. If you're AMD, you REALLY don't want to rush that last part, since you want to make sure your new ZEN CPU hits the ground running when it's released - not a flop like Bulldozer or Netburst.