Windows 10 sends your PC data 5500 times to Microsoft and Non-Private IPs

[jamidodger1]

Interesting to see someone was reporting about the unnecessary connections back in August (http://pastebin.com/sVEC5vmc). When testing some theories myself it seems to almost know when you're using something like Wireshark, or other tools to see connections as you get a lot more connection requests when you actually put a machine in-between it and the outside world compared to running the tool on the host machine. 

[GoodBytes]

43 minutes ago, jamidodger1 said:

Interesting to see someone was reporting about the unnecessary connections back in August (http://pastebin.com/sVEC5vmc). When testing some theories myself it seems to almost know when you're using something like Wireshark, or other tools to see connections as you get a lot more connection requests when you actually put a machine in-between it and the outside world compared to running the tool on the host machine. 

Windows does A LOT on the back. such as networking detection (discovering devices, other computers, know what type of device and computer is, tries to communicate with it to include it for you to use. Detect encryption methods of communication, check for offline files to sync, and more. Windows is a very fancy OS and I people forget that. They think it is a bare bone one, with a few feature. I don't know if it is because most people on this forum treat their PC as nothing more than a fancy gaming console, than actually a powerful, tries to to be easy to use, convenient (granted, when all works well), or simply that Microsoft has done such a good job hiding the complexities of operating a system, which is the ultimate goal of an OS. Back in old days, you needed a strong knowlege on thing to set things up with the OS. Today, the OS is this magic black box of mysteries, very complex, and does many things in 1 click, or a few instead of being practically a project if you know nothing about and start from scratch. I guess that ua the beutty of of many Linux distros. especially ones like Arch Linux. It forces to get your hands dirty, very dirty at times if you take no shortcuts to set things up, but you really see how trying to start witha bare bone Linux, and try to bring it to Windows level (again without using shortcuts), especially if you want to implement all the same back end features, is complicated.

[Fetzie]

1 hour ago, jamidodger1 said:

Interesting to see someone was reporting about the unnecessary connections back in August (http://pastebin.com/sVEC5vmc). When testing some theories myself it seems to almost know when you're using something like Wireshark, or other tools to see connections as you get a lot more connection requests when you actually put a machine in-between it and the outside world compared to running the tool on the host machine. 

Although if you put a machine between the Windows box and its target that processes and logs network connection attempts, then it'll likely lead to such a time difference between sending the request and getting, say, a 200 OK acknowledgement, that the Windows box will assume the request or the reply got lost and resends it (thus increasing the amount of requests made when all it really needed was one). This wouldn't necessarily happen when running Wireshark locally.

[LAwLz]

11 hours ago, Ex14 said:

So you take Apples word for it then? Thats not bias?

I don't have a Mac so I can't analyze the traffic and confirm it, but Apple actually has a pretty good track record. I can't prove a negative so I will have to wait for someone to give me a Mac, or send me a bunch of captured traffic before I aim my pitchfork at Apple. And believe me, I am no stranger to hating on Apple. I only hate on companies when it is justified though, not when it is based on rumors or speculation.

 

11 hours ago, Ex14 said:

Google has gotten it before yes That i agree (whole gmail thing). but nowadays? not so much. The general sentiment on the ground i get is people have just accepted it and moved on to the next big thing, microsoft and their shiny new OS. I don't hear much about android and i can bet you that things phoning home more times than the number of times ET has been watched.

Depends on which sites you visit I guess. I regularly browse a particular tech forum where Chrome users gets a ton of hate for allowing themselves to become part of a "botnet".

There is a huge Wikipedia article about privacy concerns regarding Google, and it has a ton of links to articles and court cases which are fairly new. The difference is that at this point we know a lot of what Google is doing. It's a known evil. Microsoft however have recently started doing all these things, so it is still a developing story. It's the same reason we hear a lot about ISIS in the news, but barely anything about Al-Qaeda. Just because we hear a lot more about ISIS does not mean people are totally okay with Al-Qaeda (which are still very much around, killing people).

[GoodBytes]

Ok, so what did we learn from all of this:

If you want news about something specific, say cars, read a website that that talk about cars, where they have experts on it. In fact, you may also want to be more specific, and go to brand or group of brands level.

 

You don't go to FOX News to read about if a monitor is good or not. You'll get useless crap. No you'll go to specificity sites that know what they are talking about like TFTCentral, or Prad.de, just to name 1 big ones.

 

Forbes, is not a site for tech news. When a journalist is wrong, he should fess up, admit he or she is wrong, and like this we can all move on, and the journalist will do his best, hopefully, double check things, or do proper research to be knowledgeable about and back things up with experts. But, we have a stubborn journalist, and I hope that people will see that he has lost his reputation, whatever he has, especially to make a big mass claim like he did. If you are doing to do this, you better be 100% correct. I won't be surprised, if Microsoft was under Ballmer control back in the days, they would send a lawyer to him and take him to court for damages (which will hurt the company image, but Ballmer pretty much destroyed what little Microsoft had, so who cares at this point, but it would be in their right to do so).

 

 

[Godlygamer23]

On 2/10/2016 at 4:58 AM, SpaghettiCarbonara said:

I didn't say anything about that. Personally, I don't care what they collect. I don't want them to collect anything. I want them to leave my shit alone.

 

I'm saying that a) it doesn't matter what they collect - they shouldn't collect anything and b) once the system is in place, it is far easier to change and abuse.

So they shouldn't collect information that makes the Windows experience potentially better for everyone?

 

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

7 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

So they shouldn't collect information that makes the Windows experience potentially better for everyone?

If the user wants to opt-out of that collection, they shouldn't collect anything indeed.

[LAwLz]

9 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Ok, so what did we learn from all of this:

If you want news about something specific, say cars, read a website that that talk about cars, where they have experts on it. In fact, you may also want to be more specific, and go to brand or group of brands level.

 

You don't go to FOX News to read about if a monitor is good or not. You'll get useless crap. No you'll go to specificity sites that know what they are talking about like TFTCentral, or Prad.de, just to name 1 big ones.

 

Forbes, is not a site for tech news. When a journalist is wrong, he should fess up, admit he or she is wrong, and like this we can all move on, and the journalist will do his best, hopefully, double check things, or do proper research to be knowledgeable about and back things up with experts. But, we have a stubborn journalist, and I hope that people will see that he has lost his reputation, whatever he has, especially to make a big mass claim like he did. If you are doing to do this, you better be 100% correct. I won't be surprised, if Microsoft was under Ballmer control back in the days, they would send a lawyer to him and take him to court for damages (which will hurt the company image, but Ballmer pretty much destroyed what little Microsoft had, so who cares at this point, but it would be in their right to do so).

I assume you want us to just read ZDNet, am I right? The problem with that is that while both articles got details wrong, the Forbes article was making the point that

1) Customers should have the option to turn these things off if they so desire.

2) If Microsoft makes off buttons then they should actually turn things off, not keep sending the things.

Those are two very good points which I fully agree with, and the things he got wrong (although if you read the article carefully I would say he didn't get anything wrong) does not make those two things any less true.

 

Forbes is a tech site. They got very good articles from time to time. I'd say they are at least as good as The Verge or any other tech tabloid.

 

And what would Microsoft sue Forbes for? I don't see anything in there which could be called defamation. Stop trying to threaten people.

 

 

9 hours ago, Godlygamer23 said:

So they shouldn't collect information that makes the Windows experience potentially better for everyone?

I am totally okay with them collecting things. The things lots of people, including me, are not happy about are:

1) There not being any option for users to opt out from it.

2) The fact that even if you opt out from some of the data collection from the settings, they are still on. For example even when I have disabled Cortana and web searches it still contacts Microsoft's servers whenever I type something in the search field.

3) Microsoft refuses to tell us details about what is being collected. They are as transparent as a brick wall, which is not a very good sign.

[GoodBytes]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I assume you want us to just read ZDNet, am I right?

One of the many sites that proved Forbes wrong who has an experts on the subject and that actually talk about it.

 

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The problem with that is that while both articles got details wrong,

Which one? (I mean the non Forbes ones)

 

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the Forbes article was making the point that 

1) Customers should have the option to turn these things off if they so desire.

Wat? How is " over an eight hour period Windows 10 tried to send data back to 51 different Microsoft IP addresses over 5500 times [...] with all data tracking options disabled" (from Gordon Kelly - Forbes), related to "Customers should have the option to turn these things off if they so desire". If the fact that you can't fully disable telemetry in Windows 10, then: Congratulation Forbes! You are only 6 months and 2 weeks late! WOW ground breaking facts. I heard that next week they have a fact that no one knows about on Windows operating system, and that is that it has windows! And you can multitask.

 

Please. Yea I see his update on his "article", which is in no relation to his false claim. He simply can't admit he is wrong.

His action of refusal has lead to nothing more than ruin his reputation and Forbes.

 

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2) If Microsoft makes off buttons then they should actually turn things off, not keep sending the things.

Those are two very good points which I fully agree with, and the things he got wrong (although if you read the article carefully I would say he didn't get anything wrong) does not make those two things any less true.

They are turned off. You even admitted in the past that you can turn off, and we had this discussion that the only thing that you can't turn off is: Feedback & Diagnostics, which you can only set to Basic.  A modern operating system, has modern features. Like time sync, Find my device (if enabled), time zone adjustment, check if you are online (this always checks to give you live report), check for Windows updates, check for driver updates, check for Apps updates, background Windows apps for live tiles, background Windows app for notifications, background checks for feedback alerts (if you want to share), Cortana (even if disabled, when you click on it, it gets you what is popular now as News from Microsoft news networks though Bing (this page: https://www.bing.com/news?FORM=WNSPN1&ts=1455457831366&nclid=0E274906A838C7FC810872A4C219C762). Also keep in mind that you have a lot of handshaking going on, so lots of back and forth to just say "hello"  with the server. And when things are blocked, it tries again. You also have OneDrive, IPv4 and IPv6 availability, Activation, and I am sure I am missing things.

 

Also, I like how you treat the MAJOR joint of the article, as a minor detail that is wrong.

 

Why don't you try yourself? You do the data monitor, and dig dipper, and do a proper job?

 

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I am totally okay with them collecting things. The things lots of people, including me, are not happy about are:

1) There not being any option for users to opt out from it.

Isn't that countering what you are saying? You are OK with it, but you are not OK with it and want it off.... wat?

 

Quote

2) The fact that even if you opt out from some of the data collection from the settings, they are still on. For example even when I have disabled Cortana and web searches it still contacts Microsoft's servers whenever I type something in the search field.

Please provide proof of this.

 

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Microsoft refuses to tell us details about what is being collected. They are as transparent as a brick wall, which is not a very good sign.

Read the easy to read Privacy Policy. The only thing that clear is under Settings > Privacy > Feedback & Diagnostic, where you don't know exactly what is being sent from Full, Enhanced and Basic modes. The rest is very clear.

 

 

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Which one? (I mean the non Forbes ones)

Such as you needing a web-server running to use port 80.

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

One of the many sites that proved Forbes wrong who has an experts on the subject and that actually talk about it.

But it did not prove the Forbes article wrong. It provided an explanation of why some of the things happens but it did not prove the overall point wrong, and also just ignored like 40% of the data gathered because the other 60% were not harmful.

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Wat? How is " over an eight hour period Windows 10 tried to send data back to 51 different Microsoft IP addresses over 5500 times [...] with all data tracking options disabled" (from Gordon Kelly - Forbes), related to "Customers should have the option to turn these things off if they so desire". If the fact that you can't fully disable telemetry in Windows 10, then: Congratulation Forbes! You are only 6 months and 2 weeks late! WOW ground breaking facts. I heard that next week they have a fact that no one knows about on Windows operating system, and that is that it has windows! And you can multitask.

Sure, they are 6 months and 2 weeks late, but did you read the article? He also brings up stats for the system with DisableWinTracking installed.

I think that's news to people, that some tools such as DisableWinTracking don't actually disable all of it (haven't looked through the logs to see what it does/doesn't disable).

Would you have been more pleased if the title was "DisableWinTracking don't disable Windows tracking"?

The article even ends with saying the issue here is the lack of transparency from Microsoft.

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Please. Yea I see his update on his "article", which is in no relation to his false claim. He simply can't admit he is wrong.

His action of refusal has lead to nothing more than ruin his reputation and Forbes.

Which false claim exactly? I would like a quote.

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

They are turned off. You even admitted in the past that you can turn off, and we had this discussion that the only thing that you can't turn off is: Feedback & Diagnostics, which you can only set to Basic.  A modern operating system, has modern features. Like time sync, Find my device (if enabled), time zone adjustment, check if you are online (this always checks to give you live report), check for Windows updates, check for driver updates, check for Apps updates, background Windows apps for live tiles, background Windows app for notifications, background checks for feedback alerts (if you want to share), Cortana (even if disabled, when you click on it, it gets you what is popular now as News from Microsoft news networks though Bing (this page: https://www.bing.com/news?FORM=WNSPN1&ts=1455457831366&nclid=0E274906A838C7FC810872A4C219C762). Also keep in mind that you have a lot of handshaking going on, so lots of back and forth to just say "hello"  with the server. And when things are blocked, it tries again. You also have OneDrive, IPv4 and IPv6 availability, Activation, and I am sure I am missing things.

Yes we had this conversation, but the conclusion was not that "the only thing you can't turn off is Feedback & Diagnostics". The conversation we had was you saying you could completely turn it off, and I said you couldn't. We did not touch on the fact that turning off web searches don't stop the computer from connecting to Bing every time you search for something (locally), or any of the similarly shady behavior.

By the way, Cortana contacting Bing does not have anything to do with the "popular news" feature because

1) That is disabled on my computer and it still does it.

2) It contacts Bing as soon as you start typing. Seems rather suspicious that Microsoft programmed it in such a way that it updates the news every time you search for something. Seems like that would be better handled by a background process that wakes up maybe once every hour and fetches the latest news. Not as soon as you start typing in a search.

 

Handshakes are single connections. A four-way handshake + data transfer will still just be a single connection. If you mean things like checking Internet access status then sure, those will be significant amount of the connections made, but the ZDNet article already explained that but still was left with a huge amount of traffic unaccounted for.

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Also, I like how you treat the MAJOR joint of the article, as a minor detail that is wrong.

The ZDNet article got lots of good points, but even when you account for all the legitimate services such as the ones you listed, you are still left with a big chunk of the connections unaccounted for.

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Why don't you try yourself? You do the data monitor, and dig dipper, and do a proper job?

I already did it on a small scale. That's why I know it contacts Bing whenever I search for something for example. Right now I got a job so my time is very limited. If I were a NEET I could probably spend a week monitoring, collecting and analyzing the traffic of an idling Windows 10 PC, but right now I frankly got better things to do.

I've already confirmed that they do collect some very suspicious things, so all that time would just be spent trying to determine how much. The amount of things gathered won't really change my opinion though so I think it would just be a waste of time.

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Isn't that countering what you are saying? You are OK with it, but you are not OK with it and want it off.... wat?

I worded that poorly. I am okay with Microsoft having all these things in the OS. I personally don't want it on my PC though so I want an option to turn it off. If Microsoft wants to gather info about their users then fine, but put the control in the users' hands.

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Please provide proof of this.

I am pretty sure I already did in an earlier thread, but since I can't find that post I will do it again. I won't have time for it today though. Gonna go see Deadpool, then I need to configure a VM and stuff.

 

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Read the easy to read Privacy Policy. The only thing that clear is under Settings > Privacy > Feedback & Diagnostic, where you don't know exactly what is being sent from Full, Enhanced and Basic modes. The rest is very clear.

If it is very clear, could you please tell me exactly what data Microsoft is collecting? I don't want "they are collecting data for the purpose of X and Y". I want to be able to view exactly the data that is being sent, in clear text. Like this:

[GoodBytes]

30 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Such as you needing a web-server running to use port 80.

?! 

 

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But it did not prove the Forbes article wrong. It provided an explanation of why some of the things happens but it did not prove the overall point wrong, and also just ignored like 40% of the data gathered because the other 60% were not harmful.

Hmm no. He suggests that it is spying.

 

Quote

Sure, they are 6 months and 2 weeks late, but did you read the article? He also brings up stats for the system with DisableWinTracking installed.

I think that's news to people, that some tools such as DisableWinTracking don't actually disable all of it (haven't looked through the logs to see what it does/doesn't disable).

Would you have been more pleased if the title was "DisableWinTracking don't disable Windows tracking"?

The article even ends with saying the issue here is the lack of transparency from Microsoft.

That would be a much more fitting title.

 

Quote

Yes we had this conversation, but the conclusion was not that "the only thing you can't turn off is Feedback & Diagnostics". The conversation we had was you saying you could completely turn it off, and I said you couldn't. We did not touch on the fact that turning off web searches don't stop the computer from connecting to Bing every time you search for something (locally), or any of the similarly shady behavior.

By the way, Cortana contacting Bing does not have anything to do with the "popular news" feature because

1) That is disabled on my computer and it still does it.

2) It contacts Bing as soon as you start typing. Seems rather suspicious that Microsoft programmed it in such a way that it updates the news every time you search for something. Seems like that would be better handled by a background process that wakes up maybe once every hour and fetches the latest news. Not as soon as you start typing in a search.

I don't know what you left enabled, so I can't comment on the matter.

 

Quote

Handshakes are single connections. A four-way handshake + data transfer will still just be a single connection. If you mean things like checking Internet access status then sure, those will be significant amount of the connections made, but the ZDNet article already explained that but still was left with a huge amount of traffic unaccounted for.

 

The ZDNet article got lots of good points, but even when you account for all the legitimate services such as the ones you listed, you are still left with a big chunk of the connections unaccounted for.

 

I already did it on a small scale. That's why I know it contacts Bing whenever I search for something for example. Right now I got a job so my time is very limited. If I were a NEET I could probably spend a week monitoring, collecting and analyzing the traffic of an idling Windows 10 PC, but right now I frankly got better things to do.

I've already confirmed that they do collect some very suspicious things, so all that time would just be spent trying to determine how much. The amount of things gathered won't really change my opinion though so I think it would just be a waste of time.

 

I worded that poorly. I am okay with Microsoft having all these things in the OS. I personally don't want it on my PC though so I want an option to turn it off. If Microsoft wants to gather info about their users then fine, but put the control in the users' hands.

 

I am pretty sure I already did in an earlier thread, but since I can't find that post I will do it again. I won't have time for it today though. Gonna go see Deadpool, then I need to configure a VM and stuff.

 

If it is very clear, could you please tell me exactly what data Microsoft is collecting? I don't want "they are collecting data for the purpose of X and Y". I want to be able to view exactly the data that is being sent, in clear text. Like this:

That picture doesn't show why Apple is communicating with their servers. Why they need that specific telemetry data, as you propose Microsoft does.

Also, does it it the full truth? How do you know for sure at 100%?

 

 

[LAwLz]

41 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

?! 

The ZDNet article says that all the info using port 80 was info received, not sent, "since Windows does not run a web server by default". That's not how ports work.

 

41 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Hmm no. He suggests that it is spying.

Well you said that he was spreading lies and Microsoft could sue him, so I would like to see the quotes that are objectively wrong.

 

41 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I don't know what you left enabled, so I can't comment on the matter.

Nothing related to web searches that's for sure. I know this for a fact because when I inspect the session created every time I search something I can see this:

X-BM-OnlineSearchDisabled: Enabled

It's pretty funny how it has to tell Microsoft that I got it turned off. You'd think that turning it off would you know, just make it so that it didn't send anything.

 

50 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

That picture doesn't show why Apple is communicating with their servers. Why they need that specific telemetry data, as you propose Microsoft does.

No I didn't say I wanted to know why Microsoft were gathering the data. What I said was I wanted to know WHAT, not why, they collect.

 

50 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Also, does it it the full truth? How do you know for sure at 100%?

Well I don't have OS X so I don't care that much, but I could try and sniff the traffic. Apple has a pretty good track record in this area though (one of the very few good things I can say about Apple) so I don't doubt them.

[Nowak]

13 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I am totally okay with them collecting things. The things lots of people, including me, are not happy about are:

1) There not being any option for users to opt out from it.

2) The fact that even if you opt out from some of the data collection from the settings, they are still on. For example even when I have disabled Cortana and web searches it still contacts Microsoft's servers whenever I type something in the search field.

3) Microsoft refuses to tell us details about what is being collected. They are as transparent as a brick wall, which is not a very good sign.

I believe that Microsoft has stated that they will allow completely opting out from the telemetry later this year? No time frame, but Linus mentioned that Microsoft responded to Forbes' rebuttal to ZDNet's rebuttal and stated that at some point this year, they will allow it. Of course, they don't recommend it because some of that data is useful to them and developers (like why this program wouldn't work or why this thing crashed) but I believe that's starting to show that they're caving to the pressure.

[GoodBytes]

26 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

The ZDNet article says that all the info using port 80 was info received, not sent, "since Windows does not run a web server by default". That's not how ports work.
 

I don't think you understand what is being said.

 

Quote

Well you said that he was spreading lies and Microsoft could sue him, so I would like to see the quotes that are objectively wrong.

I did. He is suggesting that all the traffic is spying data, while it isn't. Forbes article made many people go "I don't want Windows 10 anymore, it is spying", while it isn't true. Telemetry data collecting isn't spying.

 

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Nothing related to web searches that's for sure. I know this for a fact because when I inspect the session created every time I search something I can see this:

X-BM-OnlineSearchDisabled: Enabled

It's pretty funny how it has to tell Microsoft that I got it turned off. You'd think that turning it off would you know, just make it so that it didn't send anything.

Telemetry data. I am sure if you have enabled as full, it will send when you click on the Start Menu, how you switch between programs (Alt+Tab, or task View, or click on the task bar), when you put the system to sleep, wake up, shutdown, turn on, etc. It will only not do it, if there was an off option.

 

The only time I see Microsoft introducing the off option, is if they see that most people have it full on enabled, and not concern that they'll loose massive amount of users. Although, I do expect them to disable the feedback app if you have it disabled. similarly if you don't have it fully enabled if you are an Insider.

 

Quote

No I didn't say I wanted to know why Microsoft were gathering the data. What I said was I wanted to know WHAT, not why, they collect.

Ah ok! Fair enougth.

 

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Well I don't have OS X so I don't care that much, but I could try and sniff the traffic. Apple has a pretty good track record in this area though (one of the very few good things I can say about Apple) so I don't doubt them.

Assuming you don't use any of their services, including its cloud service, yes, I agree.

 

[theanimun]

_ẀYa know, disabling stuff that they didnt intend to have disabled is like having a halfassed security system protecting your house, most of the things they didnt want disabled are things that help them detect security flaws or why a program crashed.

Would you disable your home security (including door/window locks) to make your life easier?

 

So before you go and disable things that werent intended to be disabled think about a real world comparison

[Delicieuxz]

12 hours ago, theanimun said:

_ẀYa know, disabling stuff that they didnt intend to have disabled is like having a halfassed security system protecting your house, most of the things they didnt want disabled are things that help them detect security flaws or why a program crashed.

Would you disable your home security (including door/window locks) to make your life easier?

 

So before you go and disable things that werent intended to be disabled think about a real world comparison

Thinking about a real-world comparison, it's not comparable to a home security system at all. We've been running Windows for decades without telemetry, so...

And the most stable Windows to-date, Windows 7 (and other non Windows 10 Windows), accomplished its stellar stability without telemetry.

 

And telemetry does nothing to assist in a crash, nor is a crash a security risk - nor does telemetry assist against security risks. And when something crashes, it's typically not the OS itself, and so it isn't something that MS fixes, but the 3rd party software developer. And if an OS crashes, for there to be something for telemetry to contribute towards future stability, then the OS has already given you problem, and having telemetry running will not have prevented the issue from occurring. And if an OS crashes so much that having telemetry for MS to fix the problem makes a difference in your life, then the OS developer didn't do their job in getting the OS ready for release, and the OS is probably not worth running in the first place.

 

Also, disabling telemetry is not about making life easier, but about increasing security and privacy. So disabling telemetry is like activating a home security system, and letting telemetry run is akin to disabling home security.

[Ex14]

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Well I don't have OS X so I don't care that much, but I could try and sniff the traffic. Apple has a pretty good track record in this area though (one of the very few good things I can say about Apple) so I don't doubt them.

Actually... hasn't apple been the absolute shit to its customers and shown that It truely doesn;t think what is BEST for its customers? Idk Antennagate was the most striking one that i really snigger at. If anything you should be as weary as them as you are of MS! after all you dumb consumers (i'm joking btw) don;t know how to hold a phone right!

[LAwLz]

17 hours ago, Daring said:

I believe that Microsoft has stated that they will allow completely opting out from the telemetry later this year? No time frame, but Linus mentioned that Microsoft responded to Forbes' rebuttal to ZDNet's rebuttal and stated that at some point this year, they will allow it. Of course, they don't recommend it because some of that data is useful to them and developers (like why this program wouldn't work or why this thing crashed) but I believe that's starting to show that they're caving to the pressure.

Yeah I read that article but I am still not sure if it will just be for the Enterprise edition or the Pro version as well. I am hoping for the latter but I won't hold my breath.

 

 

12 hours ago, Ex14 said:

Actually... hasn't apple been the absolute shit to its customers and shown that It truely doesn;t think what is BEST for its customers? Idk Antennagate was the most striking one that i really snigger at. If anything you should be as weary as them as you are of MS! after all you dumb consumers (i'm joking btw) don;t know how to hold a phone right!

There are 99 reasons to hate on Apple, but when it comes to privacy I think they are setting a very good example and actually have a solid track record. Remember Carrier IQ? While a lot of companies such as HTC went "the carriers are forcing us! We really can't remove it" while Apple just removed it in the next iOS version. On iOS it was not even turned on unless you actively turned it on, and once it was on you could turn it off.

 

 

17 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

I don't think you understand what is being said.

Then please explain it to me. The ZDNet author wrote that 549 connection attempts were made on port 80 and since Windows doesn't have a web server installed by default, it was just data received. That might be true, and it might not. In order to make this post my web browser used port 80, and it is most certainly data being transferred from my computer to Linus' server.

 

17 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

I did. He is suggesting that all the traffic is spying data, while it isn't. Forbes article made many people go "I don't want Windows 10 anymore, it is spying", while it isn't true. Telemetry data collecting isn't spying.

You never gave me a quote of him saying that. I am still waiting for that quote.

 

17 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Telemetry data. I am sure if you have enabled as full, it will send when you click on the Start Menu, how you switch between programs (Alt+Tab, or task View, or click on the task bar), when you put the system to sleep, wake up, shutdown, turn on, etc. It will only not do it, if there was an off option.

I have it set to basic (the lowest possible), not full. I have not been able to observe all the things you listed but that might be because I have it on basic.

[That Norwegian Guy]

I will have a Windows 10 machine.

However, the only thing on it will be Steam and its games.

And the internet will be shared from my other computer, and vetted. (They're both in the same case, Phanteks Mini XL)

 

I will enable online games' IPs one by one.

[LAwLz]

On 2/14/2016 at 3:00 PM, GoodBytes said:

Please provide proof of this.

Here you go.

 

 

 

In case you're wondering what server it keeps contacting, it's 204.79.197.200. That's is a Bing server. I haven't looked into what exactly it sends though.