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Pumps in Serial vs Parallel

Hey guys! I am currently having flow problems, due to a parallel setup ( i have my gpus and my cpu in parallel ), and i was wondering if i should add another pump in parallel or in series?
Does the two pumps need to be identical? Can i run an EKWB d5 Vario with the new EKWB d5s? Can i run a d5 with a d5 strong? 
My goal is to have more flow, because the flow to the cpu is really bad! 

 

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5 hours ago, Philz69 said:

Hey guys! I am currently having flow problems, due to a parallel setup ( i have my gpus and my cpu in parallel ), and i was wondering if i should add another pump in parallel or in series?
Does the two pumps need to be identical? Can i run an EKWB d5 Vario with the new EKWB d5s? Can i run a d5 with a d5 strong? 
My goal is to have more flow, because the flow to the cpu is really bad! 

Adding pumps in series will provide extra pressure/flow to parallel ones which are strictly redundancy.

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having the pumps in parallel improves their overall flow-rate as the flow-rate is simply added together(assuming that they aren't having trouble with pressure although if the pump you are using is a D5 you should definitely be fine

having pumps in series improves their ability to generate large amounts of pressure because you simply add the pressure assuming the first of the 2 pumps has more than or higher rated flow rate than the latter pump

aka parallel pumps = water flow optimized whilst series pumps = pressure optimized 

however if the pump you have is a D5 in working order neither should be a problem if you did your loop correctly

note that running your cpu in parallel with the gpus is not a good idea as it splits the flow-rate between all 3!(I am assuming you have 2 gpus and a single fully working D5)

it is one thing to run 2 gpus in parallel although I personally would suggest running all 3 processors in series if you don't have the equivalent of 8+ thin 120mm radiators and even then just run the 2 gpus in parallel and have the cpu run in series to the parallel gpus as a D5 can easily handle that pressure

p. s. the reason I say thin radiators is because they will almost always provide a more restrictive path for water flow compared to thick or medium thickness rads

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I would do serial, your system will then basically have a backup and not overheat when one pump fails. 

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12 hours ago, Philz69 said:

-snip-

With series, you tend to have pressure drop as water flows through each block(due to resistance). With Parallel, there's less water flow to each block because the water is split (although this aids flow pressure drop) but in effect you are sending less water to your CPU block. CPU blocks are generally more restrictive.

 

my suggestion is make everything in series. why?

i use one EKWB D5 for 360+240+140rads+cpu block+2x gpu blocks+mosfet block. Using 16/10mm tubing and don't forget fittings provide more resistance in the loop but I don't have any issues with getting liquid around that keeps temps under control. 

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8 minutes ago, EdInk said:

With series, you tend to have pressure drop as water flows through each block(due to resistance). With Parallel, there's less water delivered to each block because the water is split (although this aids pressure drop) but in effect you are sending less water to your CPU block. CPU blocks are generally more restrictive.

 

my suggestion is make everything in series. why?

i use one EKWB D5 for 360+240+140rads+cpu block+2x gpu blocks+mosfet block. Using 16/10mm tubing and don't forget fittings provide more resistance in the loop but I don't have any issues with getting liquid around that keeps temps under control.

 

Do you mind sharing your setup, what blocks and size of tubing do you use?

 

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19 hours ago, EdInk said:

With series, you tend to have pressure drop as water flows through each block(due to resistance). With Parallel, there's less water flow to each block because the water is split (although this aids flow pressure drop) but in effect you are sending less water to your CPU block. CPU blocks are generally more restrictive.

 

my suggestion is make everything in series. why?

i use one EKWB D5 for 360+240+140rads+cpu block+2x gpu blocks+mosfet block. Using 16/10mm tubing and don't forget fittings provide more resistance in the loop but I don't have any issues with getting liquid around that keeps temps under control. 


I dont think you got the question right :P  I was asking about having pumps in serial vs in parallel, not my blocks! here is a photo of the setup http://imgur.com/4S6TShP

im using 12-16mm tubing if i remember correctly, gtx 780 dc2 block with supremacy evo

 

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@Philz69 I'm not trying to be mean but I am going to be very blunt about this as I can tell what @EdInk

 is trying to tell you and I fully agree with them. I am of course assuming (and am probably right due to how new your system is) that your D5 is in proper working order, if it isn't: RMA it as a D5 should not be wearing out any noticeable amount with less than a year of use or even 5 years of always on use (I pulled up your build log briefly once I saw the link)

1. What we believe you are doing wrong and why I believe it is causing such a problem:

Spoiler

You are running not just your gpus but also your cpu in parallel. I would get a meme but I don't believe they have one that says: "This is why you're having a bad time." The D5 pump you have is made to put out lots of pressure with plenty of flow rate IF you run all your water blocks in series; however, you are trying to run all 3 water blocks in parallel. Not only is the flow rate of the D5 not enough to do that if all 3 water blocks each received the same flow rate (which would mean each block would get 1/3 of the flow rate of the D5 regardless of the pumps ability to generate lots of pressure) BUT your cpu isn't even getting 1/3 of the flow rate due to it being so far away from the twin gpus - this matters because inlet flow starts at the gpus and outlet flow ends at the gpus - in other words because your gpus are much closer to the D5 than your cpu most of the water flow is just going to your gpus because it wants to take the path of least resistance.

2. What we think you should do and my simple explanation:

Spoiler

You should be running all 3 of your water blocks in series as then water would have only one path to flow down making pressure the only thing to worry about. As I said in the previous spoiler block  your D5 can put out way more pressure then you need to maintain a proper flow rate as that (and reliability) is what the D5 is optimized for: HIGH pressure and adequate flow rate. The base flow rate of the D5 is plenty adequate as long as each and every water block gets 100% of that flow rate which is only possible if you run your blocks in series.

3. If you still insist on getting a 2nd D5 for the sake of redundancy or you just plain have your reasons to not change the tubing connected to your water blocks no matter much we might try to persuade you:

Spoiler

running the PUMPS in parallel will provide more overall flow rate just make sure to run them parallel on their own - aka just make sure both pump inlets are fed with one source via a spliter fitting and make sure both pump outlets act as one source via a spliter fitting 

running the PUMPS in series will provide more pressure and although I recommend running one pump after the other that way you don't have to worry about accidentally running one of them dry whilst filling your loop if you don't have it gravity fed by running both pumps at once although I'm sure you already know about that considering the only thing not right about your build that I can see is the whole order of the water blocks thing

for redundancy I would not run parallel pumps as once one of them breaks the working one will simply start pumping water backwards through the broken pump and then not even the gpus will get adequate water flow whilst pumps in series will not do that as the working pump will just pull or push (depending on which pump breaks) the water through the broken pump

4. and lastly something you can do if you really want the gpus to at least run parallel

Spoiler

if you really want the gpus to be in parallel but want to fix your flow problems (without having you buy an extra D5 and 2 spltter fittings) then it's somewhat simple (I just realized how much i have typed wow my bad)

1. you have water flow from the D5 in the bottom up to both the gpus on the openings that are closest to the front of the case similar to how it is now (except have this line end at the gpus and not go straight to the cpu) 

2. next pipe your way up from both gpus (see the 2 short pipes you have between the 2 gpus keep them both)

and into the cpu block's inlet 

3. pipe your way from the cpu block's outlet to either of the rads or the res

you will also need to reorder how the rads, res, and pump connect but as long as res goes straight into pump and either pump straight to gpus or pump rad gpus or pump both rads gpus

full example would be res pump gpus cpu top rad front rad then back to res

or res pump front rad gpus cpu top rad then back to res

if you would like me to post a schematic of how the water will would flow with any of the methods i can just note it will not be till tomorrow as it is currently 1 AM and I need sleep

and again I didn't mean to be mean (or provide such an information overload) but I just don't want you to waste $100+ on a D5 that you don't need(you may still need more flex tubing and petg piping)

and yes I realize that most people call petg and acrylic tubing (being as both of them require you to A heat them up to bend them with any precision or at all and B both require you to slide a smaller tube inside them in order to bend without a kink

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6 hours ago, SirRuc said:

@Philz69 I'm not trying to be mean but I am going to be very blunt about this as I can tell what @EdInk

 is trying to tell you and I fully agree with them. I am of course assuming (and am probably right due to how new your system is) that your D5 is in proper working order, if it isn't: RMA it as a D5 should not be wearing out any noticeable amount with less than a year of use or even 5 years of always on use (I pulled up your build log briefly once I saw the link)

1. What we believe you are doing wrong and why I believe it is causing such a problem:

  Reveal hidden contents

You are running not just your gpus but also your cpu in parallel. I would get a meme but I don't believe they have one that says: "This is why you're having a bad time." The D5 pump you have is made to put out lots of pressure with plenty of flow rate IF you run all your water blocks in series; however, you are trying to run all 3 water blocks in parallel. Not only is the flow rate of the D5 not enough to do that if all 3 water blocks each received the same flow rate (which would mean each block would get 1/3 of the flow rate of the D5 regardless of the pumps ability to generate lots of pressure) BUT your cpu isn't even getting 1/3 of the flow rate due to it being so far away from the twin gpus - this matters because inlet flow starts at the gpus and outlet flow ends at the gpus - in other words because your gpus are much closer to the D5 than your cpu most of the water flow is just going to your gpus because it wants to take the path of least resistance.

2. What we think you should do and my simple explanation:

  Reveal hidden contents

You should be running all 3 of your water blocks in series as then water would have only one path to flow down making pressure the only thing to worry about. As I said in the previous spoiler block  your D5 can put out way more pressure then you need to maintain a proper flow rate as that (and reliability) is what the D5 is optimized for: HIGH pressure and adequate flow rate. The base flow rate of the D5 is plenty adequate as long as each and every water block gets 100% of that flow rate which is only possible if you run your blocks in series.

3. If you still insist on getting a 2nd D5 for the sake of redundancy or you just plain have your reasons to not change the tubing connected to your water blocks no matter much we might try to persuade you:

  Reveal hidden contents

running the PUMPS in parallel will provide more overall flow rate just make sure to run them parallel on their own - aka just make sure both pump inlets are fed with one source via a spliter fitting and make sure both pump outlets act as one source via a spliter fitting 

running the PUMPS in series will provide more pressure and although I recommend running one pump after the other that way you don't have to worry about accidentally running one of them dry whilst filling your loop if you don't have it gravity fed by running both pumps at once although I'm sure you already know about that considering the only thing not right about your build that I can see is the whole order of the water blocks thing

for redundancy I would not run parallel pumps as once one of them breaks the working one will simply start pumping water backwards through the broken pump and then not even the gpus will get adequate water flow whilst pumps in series will not do that as the working pump will just pull or push (depending on which pump breaks) the water through the broken pump

4. and lastly something you can do if you really want the gpus to at least run parallel

  Reveal hidden contents

if you really want the gpus to be in parallel but want to fix your flow problems (without having you buy an extra D5 and 2 spltter fittings) then it's somewhat simple (I just realized how much i have typed wow my bad)

1. you have water flow from the D5 in the bottom up to both the gpus on the openings that are closest to the front of the case similar to how it is now (except have this line end at the gpus and not go straight to the cpu) 

2. next pipe your way up from both gpus (see the 2 short pipes you have between the 2 gpus keep them both)

and into the cpu block's inlet 

3. pipe your way from the cpu block's outlet to either of the rads or the res

you will also need to reorder how the rads, res, and pump connect but as long as res goes straight into pump and either pump straight to gpus or pump rad gpus or pump both rads gpus

full example would be res pump gpus cpu top rad front rad then back to res

or res pump front rad gpus cpu top rad then back to res

if you would like me to post a schematic of how the water will would flow with any of the methods i can just note it will not be till tomorrow as it is currently 1 AM and I need sleep

and again I didn't mean to be mean (or provide such an information overload) but I just don't want you to waste $100+ on a D5 that you don't need(you may still need more flex tubing and petg piping)

and yes I realize that most people call petg and acrylic tubing (being as both of them require you to A heat them up to bend them with any precision or at all and B both require you to slide a smaller tube inside them in order to bend without a kink


I know what is causing the problem, why it is causing it, why i shouldnt do it,  and i have my reasons to keep it like this. I dont want to be THAT guy, but dont get off topic, i know the simple solution, i know its the better one! I just want to know if adding a d5 in parallel / series would permit my cpu to get enough flow! I think parallel is the better solution ( vs series ) to my case, but do you think it would be enough?

P.S: I dont think any of you are rude, if i was you, i'd be proposing the same thing, but that is not my question! If i was rude to you, my bad, not my intention ;) And i also know guys like me are annoying to some of you :P

 

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CPU: Intel Core i7-4790k @ 4.8ghz  Motherboard: Gigabyte G1.SNIPER 5 Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Storage: Kingston V300 Series 240GB Storage: Western Digital Red Pro 3TB Video Card: 2x(SLI) Asus GeForce GTX 780 3GB DirectCU II @ 1410mhz / 1600mhz Case: Corsair 760T White Power Supply:  AX1200i  Buildlog: [ Build Log ] Black and Green build

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then this makes things much simpler 

- parallel will provide more water flow but will not provide redundancy if you want that (although I doubt that)

if you are currently having it feed direct from res to pump to blocks you can have it (if there is an extra outlet on the bottom of that res) res separately to both pumps than splitter fitting (technically you are joining but whateves :P) then blocks

 

and if you can have it so the blocks are fed from the top (starting from cpu instead of gpu)

that will likely help as well, but might not be needed

also if you can't get another of that same exact D5 do what you can to see if the specs for the pump itself are the same (i.e head pressure and flow rate) if they are not see if you can tone down the better pump to match the less with PWM

 

p.s. It was late and I had a feeling I was going to/was be rude and a couple people on this forum appear to be emulating Linus senpai's whole attitude (and yes I know Linus is joking when he does it) of: *sees Luke move the camera feed on the stream to hide Linus but not Luke and proceeds to whine like a linus starved of attention 

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