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zMeul

pirate group self-suspends to measure impact on sales for one year

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On 2/6/2016 at 11:27 AM, KuJoe said:

And you lost all credibility because that's the exact definition of piracy, you're only lying to yourself if you think your excuses are valid.

pi·ra·cy
ˈpīrəsē/
noun
    • a practice similar to piracy but in other contexts, especially hijacking.
    • the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you haven't argued your side very well... At no point does that definition even use the word theft.

 

Whether or not it is equivalent to theft is irrelevant anyway. "Piracy is not theft" is not the same as "Piracy is okay." Murder isn't theft either, but it's still totally wrong...

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On 2/6/2016 at 11:37 AM, Badger906 said:
if you're ok with piracy for any reason then you should be ok with any crime.. because no matter what the crime there will always be someone who views it from a different angle.. 

This might be the strangest comment I've ever read. You realise in the court system a judge and jury can be lenient based on circumstances.

You realise you have just compared piracy something that occurs for a variety of reasons to genocide, rape, child molestation. By being OK with piracy someone has to agree with these crimes?

So explain to me how piracy results in a lost sale if a game/TV show etc isn't released in a region?

I've a huge subscription for television services in Ireland and Netflix and i would pick up amazon prime if they would let me. But some content still isn't released over here because the rights holders demand more money or want it to air in the US first for example.

Because these dinosaurs don't want to release content I can't legally obtain it. This problem is further exacerbated in countries that have a smaller population or don't speak English. Maybe they don't deserve to enjoy these experiences but the fact they will pirate your content should say you are doing something wrong with your distribution chain (some customers want your product and you won't give it to them).

Or Netflix, let's take geoblocking as an example. I pay a Netflix subscription ireland's Netflix has maybe 10% of the content the US Netflix has thanks to our small consumer base. I don't actually bypass the geoblock but if I did that is considered piracy as the content isn't available to me. However I am still paying Netflix money who are giving it to the content owners just not the same amount they demand from me for living outside the great United States.

Or how about my movies collection, I have a combination of at least 2000 movies on bluray and dvd. In England it is not piracy if I choose to make a person backup however in my country it is. Discs get scratched, dvd drives die to protect my purchase I am committing a crime who is being hurt by this decision? The publisher? He already got my money. The economy? I have to buy additional storage to keep backups of these discs further spending money.

 

Thankfully steam now has a decent refund system which should work as a suitable trial for most people. However perishable goods are not the same as digital distribution. So saying a restaurant needs to give a demo of food is not even close to a fair comparison, that fresh lobster they decided to give out now cost them money to replace everytime. That 2gb demo that got thrown up on your website for free costs you the same in server costs in terms of restocking a digital download.

Probably worth noting that these companies are the same ones who make consumers waive their right to a refund in the EU something they are entitled to so they can be guaranteed a working product. It's hilarious that EA was the first that I know of to put their hands up and admit it's a shit move offering at least a small refund window. So they will be guaranteed if I want to check out their game I will buy it.

 

Actually let's go back to the restaurant comparison. If I am paying 200 euro for a nice dinner and the food comes out uncooked or burnt or not prepared to my request you know what I can do as a customer? I can send it back, So I'm still protected. And yet until recently most software companies have the approach once you download it your right to a refund is gone. If they want to have this approach that is fine but you better offer a decent trial or demo or people will resort to pirating.

 

People are always going to pirate things. It's the same with movies why would Jane go and buy a movie when she can download it the moment it's released from a provider. These people don't care about quality, you won't convince them. However some pirates do have a moral compass and would choose to spend money if possible. However without consumer protection or with a method to buy the item in the first place why or how could they part with their money. Consumer protection was the biggest sticking point for me until recently. The amount of shoddy games the industry releases is remarkable. Game breaking bug? Refund. 30 fps lock? Refund. Resolution lock? With the whole gamer gate fiasco the reviews aren't a reliable way to find out about if a game is worth purchasing.

 

I know this is a few years back now but Skyrim is a fine example my game is still bugged running over 60fps physics. Just go bananas the fact I don't remember a single review mentioning this even after I bought it seems like a large oversight. Eventually I see it talked about on forums but this issue just got glossed over by mainstream journalists. To this day this is still an issue. Hell even in fallout 4 lockpicks break twice as fast at 120 fps. This crappy physics issue still remains unaddressed by Bethesda.

Of course this isn't an issue that ruins the game for everyone but it was an example of bugs and issues that go unreported and can be considered game breaking. Also something I would not have been able to recreate it the first two hours of the game meaning goodbye steam refund. A demo would let me try the game out on my system see how it works for me.

Then you have people with niche hardware such as 6990 or 7990 sure they meet the requirements for a game to run but of crossfire support is terrible on these older gpus finding a review that matches your system isn't a certainty either.

 

I have a straight forward 1 cpu 1 gpu combo and trying to get fallout 4 to launch on release was an issue, one I was not alone in experiencing however no reviews mentioned this.

Funny enough I downloaded a pirated copy after just to check and it ran straight away. Can only put it down to drm or some nonsense, pretty sure@krimsin seen me launching the game over and over again on steam trying to get it to start. I wasted hours trying to fix it so no steam refund for me. Or when I bought far cry 3 and decided it was time to move it to my ssd and get flagged saying please purchase the game. Ubisofts drm didn't even recognise my copy as legitimate anymore because I had moved it from one drive to another. This was fixed in a later version of uplay but was an issue at launch the pirated version was not effected by.

 

What I'm trying to get at is without better consumer protection or a legitimate way to trial the program on our hardware software piracy will always be a thing. (although as I said earlier I don't believe you will ever stomp out piracy as you won't convert everyone) but you should try to convert the people who do care and want a legitimate method. Not comparing the guy who just wants a working game in exchange for his money to a rapist.

Steam, EA, Gog have come a long way in improving their customer service although in my opinion and apparently the bbb steam still has a long way to go. How they make so much money and still don't have a live chat is beyond me.

 

 

Tldr : pirates aren't all shit heads. Don't compare them to sex offenders and murderers.

Publishers need to convert the pirates who want to spend money but can't.

Software companies need to stop ignoring consumer rights.

Customer service needs to improve.


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On 2/6/2016 at 0:48 PM, Linusinium said:
You could have stated your opinion without waving the pirate flag with those remarks.

 

You made three points with a paragraph each, let me start with the first:

It has been many years since I bought a game that surprised me in terms of performance. With all the media outlets out there, I always could form a educated guess how my PC would perform. Demos instead of buying and returning would be nice. Still, for more then a decade now, every user can (and should) research the software they are buying.

Before the launch day is over, there are articles on tech sites and videos on youtube channel, this excuse of "needing to try" doesn't stand. We all know how many games those who "pirate before buy" have in their steam libraries.

 

For your second "piracy is not theft" statement: I bought Rise of Tomb Raider on cd keys for $34. Actual money. If piracy is not theft, what does paying for the game make me? You guys really think that paying for goods or services is somehow optional? Pirates consider digital theft is ok just because it doesn't involve physical goods, even if a version of the item they stole actually exists as physical goods, boxes for sale in electronics stores. Bottom line, I paid for the game, pirates didn't.

 

As for the third: DRM has minimal impact on sales. Good game will sell regardless and pirates try to sneak into those increased sale numbers but fact is they pirate those games too, Witcher 3 has been pirated too. It proves pirates just don't want to pay for "online stuff" because they already have to pay for "real stuff". Must be amazing, living in a world where paying for internet service is "payment enough" for everything they can find on the internet, as if they walked into a buffet. 

 

On topic: I get what they are trying to say. Even if Denuvo proves to be unbreakable and is featured in every game, it won't help sales.

 

 

Buying from grey market key sellers can be just as bad as piracy. There is great article from an indie dev about the grey market and how a lot of keys aren't from licensed sellers and he makes little to no money from them. So I wouldn't get high and mighty about using a key seller. In some cases they are worse as they are profiting from stolen goods. But if it makes you feel better about it go ahead.

Even now I'm hesitant about sites like greenman as I wonder where they get keys so cheap. (don't get me wrong I use it but I'm often worried.) they have promised to be more transparent about where their keys come from in the future although that promise has yet to be filled.


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3 hours ago, zMeul said:

so .. what are they losing?! can you tell me? you can't!

I would not have bought the game in the 1st place

 

and you know what's funny about you getting on the high horse ... you have no validity to your claims, none whatsoever

I said this before and I will say it again - no one in this industry has ever published verifiable numbers that piracy hurts sale - ever!

 

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I buy everything that isn't free that I need. :/  

On 2/6/2016 at 8:34 AM, AresKrieger said:

It is considered illegal but is almost impossible to prove or get convicted on unless you take a plea bargin, so yes you are right but generally only uploaders are targeted as they are easier targets to prove misdeeds.

 

Also jury nullification is a thing.

At college, I had a long talk with the better ITS teacher.  The problem is that there are lawyers for these people doing manhunts, and the FBI adding trackers now to illegal torrents.  So, it's still illegal regardless of what you just said.  That would be like someone killing another person then claiming that it's not illegal because they didn't get caught or fully convicted.  You still broke the law, but the problem is that it is up to a jury to decide if you should be convicted due to how legal systems work. You don't decide how laws work simply because you don't agree with them.  But, in my opinion, the 250,000 over watching a movie is a tad ridiculous.  It's much cheaper to commit homicide than it is to pirate a movie. xD


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10 hours ago, thecreativename said:

If you want it it's a potential sale.

Let's say you play lottery. You go out, buy a ticket, circle the numbers, insert your ticket into the system and then you sit in front of your TV and wait. Numbers get drawn and you realize that you didn't win. After that, do you go out and tell everybody on the street that you lost 2 millions? 

Let's make another comparison. Same lottery ticket but this time you can only circle 6 out of regular 7 numbers. Do you expect to win a lottery grand prize, were you a potential winner?

 

Publishers today that are running around screaming how they lost millions are no different than you going out and screaming how you lost millions by not winning lottery prize. You can't lose something you don't have. They didn't loose sales in most cases, they just didn't get them and there is a difference.

 

By your logic, everybody is a potential sale if they are interested in it but you don't include common sense in that statement. It is not common sense to sell your kidney to buy an iPhone or to starve just so you could play some game.

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They're assuming they're the only crackers in the world.

Just because a game isn't available cracked doesn't mean someone who can't afford it otherwise will go out and buy the game(s).

 

I predict the sales number impact will turn out to be minimal.


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On 2/6/2016 at 6:44 AM, Badger906 said:

thats because its impossible to account for..unless you did a census of the entire world and their purchasing habits..

if you're naive enough to think that it doesn't then you're either 12 or very poorly educated.. 

 

next you'll be saying theres no link between drugs and crime.. because those drug users could have just been criminals anyway 9_9

people will say anything to try and argue their point even if they have nothing to back it up. Usually in such cases you find they try to dismantle the other party through baseless arguments, or demonizing forms of your speech to skew public perception of your stance.

On 2/6/2016 at 7:00 AM, Ramamataz said:

Meh I could care less :P


Doesn't affect me so why should I care ?

LOL. then why did you post? and how would it never affect you, you are on a computer forum for nerds about computer parts, games, and a canadian guy that likes to talk about those things.

 

You obviously very much so care because you made an account.

On 2/6/2016 at 7:11 AM, Mister Snow said:

 

And your rant about demos is simply wrong as many games come out broken or official system requirements don't give you smooth experience. Can you test drive a car before you buy it, can you go visit a house before you buy it, can you test a pair of speakers before you buy it and etc?

can you test a motherboards performance before you buy it?

 

can you test if a pencil writes well before you buy it?

 

can you test if the blue inkwell has really nice blue ink before you buy and open it?

 

can you test if you like a new country before you go there?

 

can you test to see if you like food before you buy it? and no, restaurants don't count, because dine and dashes are illegal. 

 

can you test to see if the toilet paper you bought works well before you buy it?

 

do you test to see if you like a canned drink before you buy it?

 

do you go to grocer stores and open up packages of food to test it before you buy it?

 

most of these situations are a no. what are your methods then for seeing if you might like it? ask around, talk to a human. Ask them if they have an alternate suggestion, see what the company says, etc. not every situation in the world will fit the scenario you want. Games have ONLY ever had demo systems in some stores, and the occasional demo download for customers to test the product out with. In most situations however you end up having to find out what someones opinion is and basing your judgement off that and your trust in said opinion. Just because they don't hand you what you want so you can see if you like it does not legally nor morally entitle you to steal it.

On 2/6/2016 at 7:20 AM, deviant88 said:

Piracy is not theft but its still an infraction.

 

I bet the sales will drop without piracy i have never in my life bought a game without testing it first and i will never a buy a game i cannot test to see if it works properly and it has content for the money/ and that it delivers the experience promised.

that's an impossibility. the thought of being labeled a criminal is enough for most people to not want to commit a crime. that's why there are laws made that state "breaking laws are illegal". it is a method used to re-identify you, paint you as the immoral individual society has been able to prove you are. 

 

Whether or not that society itself is performing a h.r.v or a general "immoral" action themselves is for the political field, and for people most likely much more educated and involved in the day to day.

On 2/6/2016 at 7:44 AM, Badger906 said:

i just don't get why everyone just doesn't hate on pirates.. and some just turn a blind eye.. this is our little world.. pc gaming is on the decline shouldn't we all try and preserve it? i mean its never going to go away.. but if piracy puts off devs.. then we won't have gives to play..

 

the whole "some people can't afford it " argument its just bullshit.. i can't afford a ferarri.. doesn't mean its ok for me to go take one..

this is why our world is so messed up.. people want what they can't afford and try and get it regardless.. 

people take loans out to buy stuff they couldn't otherwise afford or stick it on a credit card with the intention of only paying the minimum a month as a result getting themselves further into debt is just stupid.. 

yes not everyone has a great job or disposable income.. but thats life.. i don't try and live a life like bill gates.. 

Lazy western ideology. "i don't care i want it. i don't care it didn't touch me this time, but if it does I MIGHT DO SOMETHING lol probably not"

On 2/6/2016 at 7:54 AM, CommandMan7 said:

 

Well technically, most drug users are criminals only because the law says they are and not because of any other illegal activity. If drugs were legal, then there would be no link between drugs and crime because legal establishments would out compete the illegal smugglers.

LOL. no. learn statistics on the matter, or maybe just try volunteering at a recovery center once, or actually put yourself in the world environment around you.

 

being that many street/designer/other drugs form depency, whether that be through neurological or pathological addiction have assisted in producing drug users that throw away many/most/all sense of previous morality in order to obtain their drug. Not only that, but you also probably don't understand that a good portion of "drugs" in circulation now alter your brains chemistry, some astoundingly so. 

 

yes, those guys you know that only smoke pot, yeah. they're only criminals because of an arbitrary law that breaches well past moral and sensible obligations. same thing for a few psychedelics. However not everything is a white white situation because you want it to be. many people have and will kill, and have never done before because of drug usage. Many people have shown time and time again that personalities can completely change because of drug usage. to say "no link lol", just.... stop.

On 2/6/2016 at 8:15 AM, kelvindeschutter said:

^

On 2/6/2016 at 8:17 AM, AresKrieger said:

Simply put my issues with current media companies is that they do things that are against the law to enforce a law they basically wrote themselves, as for game companies I hate DRM and will only buy a game if it's on GOG simply because pirated copies of most steam games are superior, and don't even get me started on U-play, also I don't trust most companies to make games I want to pay for anymore, currently it's down to CD Projekt Red, Nintendo, and some indie devs like Yacht Club.

Where's your proof? "basically wrote themselves"? oh wow, so you have evidence of mass conspiracy you should probably come forward with that one. It's not against the law to have drm. it's not against the law to run background tests on people buying tons of different products from many business sector and the same thing applies. A company wants their item (physical or not) to be rightfully paid for, which are their terms for authority to use/hold/possess whatever said item is

On 2/6/2016 at 8:18 AM, Master Disaster said:

Actually the act of cracking would come under copyright theft, not piracy. Piracy would be the act of downloading the pre cracked content.

indeed.

On 2/6/2016 at 8:20 AM, Master Disaster said:

And you also have to prove whether anyone of them bought it after downloading it too.

Negative

On 2/6/2016 at 8:25 AM, Exty said:

Downloading things is not illegal you can download it and tell them that you didn't use it. and they will have to prove somehow that you did.

Downloading things you do not have rights to is indeed Illegal. Just because YOU"RE a shitty human doesn't mean that a crime isn't a crime because it has to be proved? LOL, millions of crimes and illegal things are committed every year, most are not proven. Your logic is flawed and shows you're simply taking whatever stance will prove you to be a moral standing individual

On 2/6/2016 at 8:43 AM, That Norwegian Guy said:

Hate to burst your bubble, but there are a lot more pirated console AAA game ISOs on big torrent sites than PC AAA games, and their download numbers are usually larger (unless it's a typical "best-on-PC" franchise like Elder Scrolls or Fallout.)

Statistics?

On 2/6/2016 at 0:34 PM, Nineshadow said:

What's the connection between raped women and piracy? I fail to see the point. Would you share a car with someone? Of course. Why wouldn't you share a game? More than that , piracy is a great way the consumer can protest against the game dev or publisher and even DRM. Witcher 3 sold very well while not having any DRM.

It's a comparison between crimes, both are registered and understood as crimes by most societies and governing bodies.

On 2/6/2016 at 1:08 PM, deadher0 said:

Guys, he's either truly uneducated on the topic or just a troll.  I presume both.  I won't bite.

Maybe that or just another lazy immoral western mindset like most others today

On 2/6/2016 at 2:04 PM, MrDynamicMan said:

Alrighty. This will be fun.

  1. Comparing rape to downloading music? "Literally Hitler" and also, why the "in Africa" part. Rape is a worldwide culture. (I really hope the /s isn't necessary.)
  2. We lose so many great publishers because their games didn't sell. Maybe that's bad games, bad PR, advertising, uninteresting games, etc. For every company thatyou name that "has died because of piracy" I'll match three thriving ones whos games are available to pirate.
  3. We miss out on console exclusive because the publisher has had money thrown at it to make it console exclusive.
  4. Ooooooh boy. So if I download music I'm a OK with the holocaust? Again. "Literally Hitler."
  5. What if I just want to test out *very specific ingame graphical thing* myself, or you know, have a couple hours go form my own opinion on a game?

gj with the attempt of sensationalizing the post you reply in an attempt to assert yourself as the predominant brain in your little petty squabble.

 

and 5. LOLOLOLOLOOPLOLOLLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL]

you had to think for a while to create a scenario that might give some gray area to argue in aren't you?

again, reviews, and public opinion will almost always reveal that situation. And if it does not, it still does not entitle you to theft. 

What you as a consumer should then do in any case of issue with a product after purchase, is either seek support from the developer, or attempt to get your money back. if there are no methods of getting your money returned, then you should protest with either your wallet or your voice in an effort to provide a method of RETURNING A PAID FUCKING PRODUCT.

 

And now that we have that now on STEAM just like on ORIGIN, just like on UPLAY, NONE of you can make your argument. You simply can't afford it or you can and just want to steal it instead.

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On 06.02.2016 at 2:48 PM, Linusinium said:

 If piracy is not theft, what does paying for the game make me? You guys really think that paying for goods or services is somehow optional? Pirates consider digital theft is ok just because it doesn't involve physical goods, even if a version of the item they stole actually exists as physical goods, boxes for sale in electronics stores. Bottom line, I paid for the game, pirates didn't.

no no for real now,digital piracy is not theft. it doesnt matter your opinion or mine.its the law that says so https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

if you go in store and steal a box full of games yeah thats theft. however don`t start with 'if piracy is not theft' because they are extremely different things

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1 hour ago, Selah said:

It's a comparison between crimes, both are registered and understood as crimes by most societies and governing bodies.

Tax evasion is a crime as well , and yet even the biggest companies do it to some extent.


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On 2/7/2016 at 6:47 AM, Mister Snow said:

How is it a potential sale if someone can't buy it? And we are not talking about: "Oh, I don't have some spare cash this month, bummer". We are talking about: "Oh, I don't have some spare cash, I didn't have spare cash and who knows if and when I will have it".

So no, it is not black and white like you would like to believe.

Then you don't need to be playing the game. You aren't entitled to it. 

 

It really is simple.

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1 hour ago, Selah said:

can you test a motherboards performance before you buy it?

 

can you test if a pencil writes well before you buy it?

 

can you test if the blue inkwell has really nice blue ink before you buy and open it?

 

can you test if you like a new country before you go there?

 

can you test to see if you like food before you buy it? and no, restaurants don't count, because dine and dashes are illegal. 

 

can you test to see if the toilet paper you bought works well before you buy it?

 

do you test to see if you like a canned drink before you buy it?

 

do you go to grocer stores and open up packages of food to test it before you buy it?

 

most of these situations are a no. what are your methods then for seeing if you might like it? ask around, talk to a human. Ask them if they have an alternate suggestion, see what the company says, etc. not every situation in the world will fit the scenario you want. Games have ONLY ever had demo systems in some stores, and the occasional demo download for customers to test the product out with. In most situations however you end up having to find out what someones opinion is and basing your judgement off that and your trust in said opinion. Just because they don't hand you what you want so you can see if you like it does not legally nor morally entitle you to steal it.

"can you test a motherboards performance before you buy it?"

No because after you test it, it becomes a used good that sells for less so it's a direct loss because it is a physical good and required physical materials that you have to buy for EVERY copy you make.

 

"can you test if a pencil writes well before you buy it?"

I don't see why not if it's a regular pencil and if not, it's a physical good and becomes used when you use it which lowers that particular copys value.

 

"can you test if the blue inkwell has really nice blue ink before you buy and open it?"

Again, I don't see why not but then again, it becomes used and people don't want to buy that copy of a product which is a direct loss on materials that went into it.

 

"can you test if you like a new country before you go there?"

No because there is no other reliable way to know if you will like it. That one makes no sense at all.

 

I won't continue this because it should be clear to you by now where I'm going with this. 

Now tell me, why shouldn't there be a demo of a game? Does it devalue original copy, does it cost them to produce a copy of a demo? You are telling me that you would rather waste 5h on searching on web and reading reviews than just install a demo and see how you like it?

Even if you are ok with that, there are people that are not so why should they bow their heads and say ok, I'll manage somehow because you can't be bothered to release a demo. They can release 10 DLCs but can't be bothered for a demo, right.

You as a consumer need to ask for the things you want and saying that not every situation in life is going to be to your liking is not a valid response. Of course it won't be but it is in your interest to make it be so and that requires that you stand up and fight for what you believe and not just accept it as it is.

 

Now before you say that I am justifying piracy, I'm not. All I'm saying is that companies need to focus on improving their services and give people what they want instead of headhunting people that just won't or can't give them money. Those people would rather not play their game than pay and in the end, if they blocked access for those kind of people they gain absolutely nothing. Only pirates they can "convert" are those that would pay but don't want to or can't because of: can't buy it in their region, can't test it, implemented DRM makes game worse or some other reason.

 

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29 minutes ago, JoeyDM said:

Then you don't need to be playing the game. You aren't entitled to it. 

 

It really is simple.

You aren't hurting anybody by playing it so why wouldn't you? So you should deprive yourself of something even if no one would benefit from that action?

 

It really is that simple.

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2 minutes ago, Mister Snow said:

You aren't hurting anybody by playing it so why wouldn't you? So you should deprive yourself of something even if no one would benefit from that action?

 

It really is that simple.

You want to use a product? Pay for the product. You can't/won't pay for the product? Don't use the product.

 

The feeling of entitlement that exists is absolutely astonishing. 

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In the end it basically only ends up as being a personal issue.


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3 minutes ago, JoeyDM said:

You want to use a product? Pay for the product. You can't/won't pay for the product? Don't use the product.

 

The feeling of entitlement that exists is absolutely astonishing. 

"You should deprive yourself of something even if no one would benefit from that action?"

If you don't understand this statement than I really have nothing else to add to this conversation as it would be pointless.

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2 hours ago, Selah said:

 

K. Then don't download MP3's from Youtube or other websites. Listen to music on other websites. No bypassing geo-locks as that is technically illegal.

 

So no TOR to bypass any youtube video locks. No copying programs without permission in order to share unless that program is free

 

To be honest I could care less. In my eyes is isn't technically them losing money they are losing sales from people. As the pirate has to purchase the game first then reprogram the code  Then upload the game. Maybe if devs gave out more demos in order for me to see if the game is good we wouldn't have problems


I got the best Waifu a man could ever ask for Lieselotte Sherlock is my girl ( in my profile pic ) 

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On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 3:14 AM, zMeul said:

even that is irrelevant because I wouldn't've payed for it anyways

last game I remember playing was the 2013 Tomb Raider - the rest of the time I occupy my time with "free to play" titles

 

last games I bought? the latest X-COM and expansion - not the one released yesterday or so, I'll probably buy it but I'll wait for them to issue some patches

You kinda defeated yourself with this comment. Why pirate a game to "test how it runs on your PC" if you have no intention of purchasing it? o.O


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It's like a class of eager philosophy students debating about ethics and morals in here! I aint got time to read 5 paragraphs per reply people!

 

My comment-

Quote

if you remove one evil, a great evil with step in and take its place...

The quote has nothing to do with my opinion. Just wanted to say it lol.

 

Do I disapprove of piracy? No. I see the legitimate reasons why people do it. Do I partake? Not anymore (okay I still download DRM-free mobi files for my kindle :P but only for books not easily found!). I used to dl music and movies but I never even attempted to get games that way


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10 hours ago, zMeul said:

so .. what are they losing?! can you tell me? you can't!

I would not have bought the game in the 1st place

 

and you know what's funny about you getting on the high horse ... you have no validity to your claims, none whatsoever

I said this before and I will say it again - no one in this industry has ever published verifiable numbers that piracy hurts sale - ever!

How am I getting on a high horse? I even admitted to piracy myself.

The funny part is that you seem to believe that the fact that piracy doesn't hurt sales at all. It does, but it is massively over exaggerated. Are the numbers sizeable enough to warrant spending massive amounts of money trying to stop it? HELL NO! It's like shoplifting: It isn't a big issue, so no big steps need to be taken. Law still needs to be enforced. Do I agree that current copyright laws are archaic? Yes! Do I believe game studios should release demos? yes! Do I think that lack of a demo warrants illegally downloading a game? Yeah! 

 

It's not your points that I have an issue with - it's your attitude. Piracy is theft, and it's illegal - that's the only claim I make, I don't even care about the reason why you pirate. I want people to acknowledge that what they're doing is illegal - even if it isn't technically hurting anyone. Stealing from the rich is still stealing. I've stolen games, at least I'm reasonable enough to admit it. I want people to stop trying to justify what they're doing, and try to make it look like they're fighting the system. Guess what, you just don't want to pay for your game, call it whatever you want.

 

You wouldn't have bought the game? Fine, it's still illegal though.

 

Also, I don't really see how a small-time writer's opinion makes your points more valid though.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, No Nrg said:

You kinda defeated yourself with this comment. Why pirate a game to "test how it runs on your PC" if you have no intention of purchasing it? o.O

what?! if that's what you understood ... -_-

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On 2/6/2016 at 3:29 AM, Badger906 said:

its still theft and loss of earnings for the company.. if 1 million people get it for free thats a large number of potential lost sales.. I'm not saying anywhere near that 1 million would have bought it.. but some would.. even if it was 10% .. thats 100,000.. for a $50 game thats $5 million in lost revenue... i don't know about you but if i lost 5 mil.. id be pissed..

 

and you say about not having demos or in engine tests.. you don't get demos in restaurants.. or you can't live in a house for 6 months before you buy it.. do you steal food and houses too?

same with pc tech.. you can't get a demo of a gpu or cpu.. its just reviews .. same with games.. so i take it you'd be ok with someone stealing your pc and then trashing it when they're done.. as its just a demo..

Actually you do get to go check out a house before you buy it. And your analogy is stupid anyway, Zmeul was saying that he doesn't even know if his computer will run the game properly. You can get a house inspected before you buy it to ensure that its safe to live in, without piracy or engine demos, you are buying a game and hoping you didn't waste $70 on a program you cant even open.

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12 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

 

As I said it is technically illegal, but it's at best a grey area in how to enforce and the interpretation of the law isn't 100% clear, though I never claimed it was legal, the main problem arises in the fact that the laws were written before the concepts of electronic distribution were created, and honestly the laws should be rewritten to fix loopholes/ update for modern use  thus protecting copyright but also to overturn corrupt laws essentially written by the entertainment industry. Until then the laws will remain vague, difficult to enforce, laughable to jurors whom likely will nullify cases.

 

As for myself in regards to this, as long as the laws remain unsatisfactory/corrupt will openly denounce them.


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I TL;DR'd a lot of this thread, but seeing examples of physical goods to justify piracy is just sad(spoiler: They are not the same thing and should not be treated as such). Create something, sell it, and watch people pirate it and look at your empty wallet, then you will understand.

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2 hours ago, QueenDemetria said:

I TL;DR'd a lot of this thread, but seeing examples of physical goods to justify piracy is just sad(spoiler: They are not the same thing and should not be treated as such). Create something, sell it, and watch people pirate it and look at your empty wallet, then you will understand.

Yeah I agree, piracy and theft are two different things however that doesn't justify piracy. Not being another crime doesn't mean it's not a crime, piracy is so common though to the point where it's often socially acceptable. I know a lot of people who pirate movies, music and to a lesser extent games, although I don't really get the whole it's not pirating if you only download and don't upload it. Just because it's not as bad of a crime (downloading without uploading) doesn't make it legal, I haven't decided if they're lying to themselves, trolling people or just really don't understand piracy (or maybe I don't, who knows). But I used to pirate when I was younger, and I used similar justifications to those people have said here like how I wasn't going to buy it anyway, but for me personally beating a game before I bought it really stopped me from buying it. I've since stopped doing that, if it's a product I enjoy I feel like I should pay for it so I buy my PC games now. But that's just me, I know people will continue to pirate as long as it's easy and the likelihood of getting caught is so low.

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