pirate group self-suspends to measure impact on sales for one year

[zMeul]

source: https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-group-suspends-new-cracks-to-measure-impact-on-sales-160206/

 

^ Bird Sister - 3DM's leader

 

Quote

The China-based cracking group that recently bemoaned Denuvo's anti-piracy system as all but unbreakable has delivered a second surprise announcement. 3DM says it will stop working on single-player games cracks for at least a year so it can assess whether genuine sales will be affected.

 

One of the hottest topics in the game piracy scene in late 2015 surrounded the Avalanche Studios/Square Enix title Just Cause 3.

Released on December 1, 2015, pirates were eager to get their hands on the game for free. However, JC3 is protected by the latest iteration of Denuvo, an anti-tamper technology developed by Denuvo Software Solutions GmbH. Denuvo is not DRM per se, but acts as a secondary encryption system protecting underlying DRM products.

 

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do I use cracked content? yes I do

why do I do it? because most, if not all, developers do not release demos or in-engine benchmarks tools to assess the performance of said game on my PC(s)

 

do I believe "software piracy" is theft? no, it's not!

why? because if you copy the game 1 million times and delete it doesn't mean the publisher lost 1 million copies

 

 

take the example of CD Project Red and their stance on DRM, they retailed The Witcher 3 without DRM - did the game sold? oh yes it did; in two months after launch it sold 1.3mil copies on PC

[desertcomputer]

How do we know that you brought the game after you downloaded the pirated version? They are other people doing the cracking of games ... so even if they stop another people will take their place. 

[zMeul]

11 minutes ago, MrUnknownEMC said:

How do we know that you brought the game after you downloaded the pirated version?

even that is irrelevant because I wouldn't've payed for it anyways

last game I remember playing was the 2013 Tomb Raider - the rest of the time I occupy my time with "free to play" titles

 

last games I bought? the latest X-COM and expansion - not the one released yesterday or so, I'll probably buy it but I'll wait for them to issue some patches

[Misanthrope]

Interesting experiment. I really think that in 2016 it's flawed from the get go though: Steam and Origin discount most brand new games pretty significantly within the first year of release. The only exception being things like Call of Duty titles that stay unmounted for longer than a year.

[Sauron]

Wanna bet there won't be a significant impact?

[KuJoe]

19 minutes ago, zMeul said:

do I believe "piracy" is theft? no, it's not!

And you lost all credibility because that's the exact definition of piracy, you're only lying to yourself if you think your excuses are valid.

pi·ra·cy

ˈpīrəsē/

noun

1. • a practice similar to piracy but in other contexts, especially hijacking.
   • the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work.

[Badger906]

25 minutes ago, zMeul said:

source: https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-group-suspends-new-cracks-to-measure-impact-on-sales-160206/

 

 

do I believe "piracy" is theft? no, it's not!

why? because if you copy the game 1 million times and delete it doesn't mean the publisher lost 1 million copies

 

its still theft and loss of earnings for the company.. if 1 million people get it for free thats a large number of potential lost sales.. I'm not saying anywhere near that 1 million would have bought it.. but some would.. even if it was 10% .. thats 100,000.. for a $50 game thats $5 million in lost revenue... i don't know about you but if i lost 5 mil.. id be pissed..

 

and you say about not having demos or in engine tests.. you don't get demos in restaurants.. or you can't live in a house for 6 months before you buy it.. do you steal food and houses too?

same with pc tech.. you can't get a demo of a gpu or cpu.. its just reviews .. same with games.. so i take it you'd be ok with someone stealing your pc and then trashing it when they're done.. as its just a demo..

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, Badger906 said:

its still theft and loss of earnings for the company.. if 1 million people get it for free thats a large number of potential lost sales.. I'm not saying anywhere near that 1 million would have bought it.. but some would.. even if it was 10% .. thats 100,000.. for a $50 game thats $5 million in lost revenue... i don't know about you but if i lost 5 mil.. id be pissed..

 

and you say about not having demos or in engine tests.. you don't get demos in restaurants.. or you can live in a house for 6 months before you buy it.. do you steal food and houses too?

same with pc tech.. you can't get a demo of a gpu or cpu.. its just reviews .. same with games.. so i take it you'd be ok with someone stealing your pc and then trashing it when they're done.. as its just a demo..

few months back there was a dude from The Pirate Bay who creates some mini PCs that downloaded music and deleted it couple million times

he exhibited them in art galleries 

[Badger906]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

few months back there was a dude from The Pirate Bay who creates some mini PCs that downloaded music and deleted it couple million times

he exhibited them in art galleries 

and?? in africa women are raped and mutilated daily.. doesn't mean thats cool to...

its theft.. plane and simple.. if it wasn't it wouldn't be illegal.. and if it wasn't a bad thing and didn't have an impact on companies then why have we lost so many great publishers over the years... and why do you think we also miss out on certain titles that are exclusive to consoles..

 

if you're ok with piracy for any reason then you should be ok with any crime.. because no matter what the crime there will always be someone who views it from a different angle.. 

 

if you want a game.. wait for it to be reviewed by you tubers.. total biscuit does a damn good job.. or buy a magazine.. then buy it..

and the in engine part.. if your pc doesn't tick all the boxes for the minimum spec then don't buy it.. simple.. 

[zMeul]

1 hour ago, Badger906 said:

its theft.. plane and simple.. if it wasn't it wouldn't be illegal.. and if it wasn't a bad thing and didn't have an impact on companies then why have we lost so many great publishers over the years... and why do you think we also miss out on certain titles that are exclusive to consoles..

there hasn't been a single company in the software, music or game industry to provide actual data that piracy affects sales - ever 

 

the companies that vanished through the years did so because of shitty business decisions - adhering to fantasy release dates and other shit like that

do you recall Troika Games and their Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines game? I pre-ordered that sucker; did me purchasing it prevented Troika to go under? no it did not

why? because the game was released in a sub-par state

[Badger906]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

there hasn't been a single company in the software, music or game industry to provide actual data that piracy affects sales - ever 

thats because its impossible to account for..unless you did a census of the entire world and their purchasing habits..

if you're naive enough to think that it doesn't then you're either 12 or very poorly educated.. 

 

next you'll be saying theres no link between drugs and crime.. because those drug users could have just been criminals anyway 

[zMeul]

Just now, Badger906 said:

thats because its impossible to account for..

but you tell me it is .. based on what!? evidence? nope

[mikat]

23 minutes ago, KuJoe said:

And you lost all credibility because that's the exact definition of piracy, you're only lying to yourself if you think your excuses are valid.

pi·ra·cy

ˈpīrəsē/

noun

1. • a practice similar to piracy but in other contexts, especially hijacking.
   • the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work.

wait piracy is not this??

[Badger906]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

but you tell me it is .. based on what!? evidence? nope

well with this article and their idea.. if it proves that it does effect sales then i hope you'll eat your words and go and buy every game you've ever stolen at full retail price..

and i also seriously hope one day you get something stolen and see how much you bitch and moan about it.. one game might not seem like s lot to you.. but its the peoples who made its property.. its not just the money its also the morals.. 

 

 

[SImoHayha]

Meh I could care less

Doesn't affect me so why should I care ?

[SImoHayha]

9 minutes ago, Badger906 said:

well with this article and their idea.. if it proves that it does effect sales then i hope you'll eat your words and go and buy every game you've ever stolen at full retail price..

and i also seriously hope one day you get something stolen and see how much you bitch and moan about it.. one game might not seem like s lot to you.. but its the peoples who made its property.. its not just the money its also the morals.. 

 

 

Ahh but everyone has different morals my friend. It's like abortion. Some people are pro-life and others are not. And they each see each own side as being the only right answer.

Pretty harsh to say but I get what you mean mate. But each to his own I guess.

[KuJoe]

I couldn't care less if people pirate things. I completely understand that some people cannot afford or don't have the means to purchase things and that's fine with me, but trying to pretend piracy isn't theft is just ignorant and just hurts your case more. Saying you steal things because you don't have a the ability to try it before you buy it is a joke, just admit the real reason you steal stuff is because you either can't or don't want to pay for it and move on. If you tell the truth nobody will argue with you (and if they do, it's not worth either of your time to argue with them about it). No use being both a thief and a liar on a forum like this, it's not worth anybody's time to judge you for your spending habits. Now if you want to lie about stuff though, it doesn't help the discussion at all for either side.

[Mister Snow]

24 minutes ago, Badger906 said:

its still theft and loss of earnings for the company.. if 1 million people get it for free thats a large number of potential lost sales.. I'm not saying anywhere near that 1 million would have bought it.. but some would.. even if it was 10% .. thats 100,000.. for a $50 game thats $5 million in lost revenue... i don't know about you but if i lost 5 mil.. id be pissed..

 

and you say about not having demos or in engine tests.. you don't get demos in restaurants.. or you can't live in a house for 6 months before you buy it.. do you steal food and houses too?

same with pc tech.. you can't get a demo of a gpu or cpu.. its just reviews .. same with games.. so i take it you'd be ok with someone stealing your pc and then trashing it when they're done.. as its just a demo..

It's not that black and white. For the ones that would have bought it, it's theft but for the ones that wouldn't have bought it, it's not.
For instance, I really wanted to play Diablo 3 when it came out but I didn't have money and the game can't be cracked so to this day I haven't played it and to be honest, I never will as I'm no longer interested in it. 

 

So, did they gain anything from me? No.  Would they have lost a sale on me if I could pirate it? No.

The only thing they lost is me going around and recommending people to play it, or not, depending on the quality.

 

And your rant about demos is simply wrong as many games come out broken or official system requirements don't give you smooth experience. Can you test drive a car before you buy it, can you go visit a house before you buy it, can you test a pair of speakers before you buy it and etc?

[deviant88]

51 minutes ago, KuJoe said:

And you lost all credibility because that's the exact definition of piracy, you're only lying to yourself if you think your excuses are valid.

Piracy is not theft but its still an infraction.

 

I bet the sales will drop without piracy i have never in my life bought a game without testing it first and i will never a buy a game i cannot test to see if it works properly and it has content for the money/ and that it delivers the experience promised.

[KuJoe]

Just now, deviant88 said:

Piracy is not theft but its still an infraction.

 

I bet the sales will drop without piracy i have never in my life bought a game without testing it first and i will never a buy a game i cannot test to see if it works properly and it has content for the money/ and that it delivers the experience promised.

By definition it is theft. This cannot be contested. Obtaining a paid product without paying for it is theft.

[Badger906]

i just don't get why everyone just doesn't hate on pirates.. and some just turn a blind eye.. this is our little world.. pc gaming is on the decline shouldn't we all try and preserve it? i mean its never going to go away.. but if piracy puts off devs.. then we won't have gives to play..

 

the whole "some people can't afford it " argument its just bullshit.. i can't afford a ferarri.. doesn't mean its ok for me to go take one..

this is why our world is so messed up.. people want what they can't afford and try and get it regardless.. 

people take loans out to buy stuff they couldn't otherwise afford or stick it on a credit card with the intention of only paying the minimum a month as a result getting themselves further into debt is just stupid.. 

yes not everyone has a great job or disposable income.. but thats life.. i don't try and live a life like bill gates.. 

[Exty]

Piracy is theft, downloading a pirated software is not. i own 200+ games on steam and i still pirate, why ? to test out if the game is even worth it, or atleast i did , now i just get a refund.

[Linusinium]

41 minutes ago, zMeul said:

do I use cracked content? yes I do

why do I do it? because most, if not all, developers do not release demos or in-engine benchmarks tools to assess the performance of said game on my PC(s)

 

do I believe "piracy" is theft? no, it's not!

why? because if you copy the game 1 million times and delete it doesn't mean the publisher lost 1 million copies

 

 

take the example of CD Project Red and their stance on DRM, they retailed The Witcher 3 without DRM - did the game sold? oh yes it did; in two months after launch it sold 1.3mil copies on PC

You could have stated your opinion without waving the pirate flag with those remarks.

 

You made three points with a paragraph each, let me start with the first:

It has been many years since I bought a game that surprised me in terms of performance. With all the media outlets out there, I always could form a educated guess how my PC would perform. Demos instead of buying and returning would be nice. Still, for more then a decade now, every user can (and should) research the software they are buying.

Before the launch day is over, there are articles on tech sites and videos on youtube channel, this excuse of "needing to try" doesn't stand. We all know how many games those who "pirate before buy" have in their steam libraries.

 

For your second "piracy is not theft" statement: I bought Rise of Tomb Raider on cd keys for $34. Actual money. If piracy is not theft, what does paying for the game make me? You guys really think that paying for goods or services is somehow optional? Pirates consider digital theft is ok just because it doesn't involve physical goods, even if a version of the item they stole actually exists as physical goods, boxes for sale in electronics stores. Bottom line, I paid for the game, pirates didn't.

 

As for the third: DRM has minimal impact on sales. Good game will sell regardless and pirates try to sneak into those increased sale numbers but fact is they pirate those games too, Witcher 3 has been pirated too. It proves pirates just don't want to pay for "online stuff" because they already have to pay for "real stuff". Must be amazing, living in a world where paying for internet service is "payment enough" for everything they can find on the internet, as if they walked into a buffet. 

 

On topic: I get what they are trying to say. Even if Denuvo proves to be unbreakable and is featured in every game, it won't help sales.

 

[CommandMan7]

1 hour ago, Badger906 said:

next you'll be saying theres no link between drugs and crime.. because those drug users could have just been criminals anyway 

 

Well technically, most drug users are criminals only because the law says they are and not because of any other illegal activity. If drugs were legal, then there would be no link between drugs and crime because legal establishments would out compete the illegal smugglers.

[Badger906]

1 minute ago, CommandMan7 said:

 

Well technically, most drug users are criminals only because the law says they are and not because of any other illegal activity. If drugs were legal, then there would be no link between drugs and crime because legal establishments would out compete the illegal smugglers.

i meant other crimes.. i mean jobless drug addicts get money from somewhere.. and drug related shootings.. prostitution to fund drugs ect.. 

If rich people want to take drugs and fund it legally i don't have an issue with that lol.. their lives and money..