Need assistance with sound mixer

[Voids]

Hello,

 

I recently bought a behringer 302USB I have experienced large amounts of hiss. The mic I used was the behringer dynamic mic. When I turn the gain up the hiss increases. Would buying a phantom power supply connected to the mic which would then connect to the mixer make a difference?

 

Any input would be great

[Xizerz]

phantom power doesn't do anything for a dynamic mic, but it may just be that the mic has a high noise floor. If it was a cheap mic then that may be the issue

[Voids]

2 minutes ago, Xizerz said:

phantom power doesn't do anything for a dynamic mic, but it may just be that the mic has a high noise floor. If it was a cheap mic then that may be the issue

It's the behringer XM8500

[Philosobyte]

I don't think it's an issue with the XM8500. I think it's an issue with the 302USB not having enough clean gain for most dynamic microphones. Even the $100 to $150 interfaces tend to have some noise floor trouble with dynamic microphones. 

 

As Xizerz noted, phantom power only has an effect on condenser microphones, not dynamic microphones, so that's not the answer. 

 

I have no personal experience, but you could try using the Art TubeMP preamp as an intermediate between your XM8500 and your 302USB. You'll have to buy a second XLR cable as well (can be short if you want). The TubeMP's gain, combined with some of the 302USB's gain, should be enough to boost the signal cleanly. I think it's worth a try.

[Voids]

28 minutes ago, Philosobyte said:

I don't think it's an issue with the XM8500. I think it's an issue with the 302USB not having enough clean gain for most dynamic microphones. Even the $100 to $150 interfaces tend to have some noise floor trouble with dynamic microphones. 

 

As Xizerz noted, phantom power only has an effect on condenser microphones, not dynamic microphones, so that's not the answer. 

 

I have no personal experience, but you could try using the Art TubeMP preamp as an intermediate between your XM8500 and your 302USB. You'll have to buy a second XLR cable as well (can be short if you want). The TubeMP's gain, combined with some of the 302USB's gain, should be enough to boost the signal cleanly. I think it's worth a try.

Might give it a try. After looking at other forums specialised with recording equipment, it seems to be the 302. The phantom power on supplies 12 volts from the overall consensus. That would be enough for dynamic mics. So it must be the mixer itself. Could I get another mixer I.e. the Scarlett 2i2?

[Philosobyte]

21 minutes ago, Voids said:

Might give it a try. After looking at other forums specialised with recording equipment, it seems to be the 302. The phantom power on supplies 12 volts from the overall consensus. That would be enough for dynamic mics. So it must be the mixer itself. Could I get another mixer I.e. the Scarlett 2i2?

Again, phantom power has absolutely no effect on dynamic microphones like the XM8500. People who were talking about phantom power problems were using condenser microphones like the AT2020 or Samson C01U. 

 

The Scarlett 2i2 probably won't solve the problem because the 2i2 has rather weak preamps for its price range. I'm pretty sure the Mackie Onyx Blackjack has enough gain, though, due to it having the most gain of the budget interfaces in this price range, and multiple reports of it working well with the SM57. The Blackjack even has barely enough gain for the SM7B, which is a notoriously insensitive microphone. 

edit: If you buy the Mackie Onyx Blackjack, keep in mind that developers stopped developing drivers for it in Windows 8.1. The drivers are still solid and you can install them in Compatibility mode to get them to work well in Windows 10, though. 

 

Edited February 6, 2016 by Philosobyte

[ALwin]

Dynamic mics DO NOT require phantom power.

[Philosobyte]

1 minute ago, ALwin said:

Dynamic mics DO NOT require phantom power.  Keep providing phantom power to a dynamic mic and you risk damaging it.

Hm, responses in this thread say otherwise. I've always been under the impression that only ribbon microphones are damaged by phantom power (and immediately so). 

[ALwin]

6 minutes ago, Philosobyte said:

Hm, responses in this thread say otherwise. I've always been under the impression that only ribbon microphones are damaged by phantom power (and immediately so). 

No, I double checked and realized I was wrong.  Phantom power doesn't damage dynamic mics, at least for those made in the past few decades.  But still they don't need it.  With ribbon mics, some require phantom power and you have to be careful with the voltages.

 

I have a pair of RODE NTR ribbon mics that require 48V phantom power.  The voice recording using the preamps on my FS7 is much warmer than my MKH416 shotgun.  Too bad ribbon mics are not as directional as a shotgun.

[Philosobyte]

16 minutes ago, ALwin said:

No, I double checked and realized I was wrong.  Phantom power doesn't damage dynamic mics, at least for those made in the past few decades.  But still they don't need it.  With ribbon mics, some require phantom power and you have to be careful with the voltages.

 

I have a pair of RODE NTR ribbon mics that require 48V phantom power.  The voice recording using the preamps on my FS7 is much warmer than my MKH416 shotgun.  Too bad ribbon mics are not as directional as a shotgun.

I wasn't even aware active ribbon microphones existed until now. Thanks for introducing me

 

Also, @Voids I suggest staying safe and getting an entirely new interface (Blackjack) instead of chaining another preamp (ART) to an existing preamp. After some more research, it appears that there's a risk of damage to the interface if the gain is set too high on the interface's internal preamp while the ART is chained to it. Furthermore, the last 10 - 20dB on the ART is noisy, so as a standalone preamp it wouldn't be optimal for low-output dynamic microphones. 

[Voids]

10 hours ago, Philosobyte said:

I wasn't even aware active ribbon microphones existed until now. Thanks for introducing me

 

Also, @Voids I suggest staying safe and getting an entirely new interface (Blackjack) instead of chaining another preamp (ART) to an existing preamp. After some more research, it appears that there's a risk of damage to the interface if the gain is set too high on the interface's internal preamp while the ART is chained to it. Furthermore, the last 10 - 20dB on the ART is noisy, so as a standalone preamp it wouldn't be optimal for low-output dynamic microphones. 

I am returning the 302 as a lot of users who are more than just casuals said that the noise exists in all models.

 

I have went a purchased the personus audiobox interface. Obviously it will lack some features compared to the 302 however it should mean its more a master of one thing rather than a jack of all trades if you know what I mean.

 

This one is USB as well but it can provide a full 48v phantom power.

 

Hopefully this will sort out the hiss. The 302 features the pan, high and low but I don't necessarily need that at all. So it won't be missed.

 

[EndlessOyster]

14 hours ago, Voids said:

Hello,

 

I recently bought a behringer 302USB I have experienced large amounts of hiss. The mic I used was the behringer dynamic mic. When I turn the gain up the hiss increases. Would buying a phantom power supply connected to the mic which would then connect to the mixer make a difference?

 

Any input would be great

Right lets sort this out then
How close is the microphone to your mouth?

[Voids]

15 minutes ago, EndlessOyster said:

Right lets sort this out then
How close is the microphone to your mouth?

It's not the mic, however, the dynamic mic was about 3" - 4" away from my mouth. It is the 302USB mixer at fault.

[EndlessOyster]

5 minutes ago, Voids said:

It's not the mic, however, the dynamic mic was about 3" - 4" away from my mouth. It is the 302USB mixer at fault.

Well if it this microphone your talking about yes it is.
behringer XM8500

[Voids]

18 minutes ago, EndlessOyster said:

Well if it this microphone your talking about yes it is.
behringer XM8500

Yes that is the mic I have. Apparently the mixer picks up significant digital signal through the USB 

Watch this the test for the 302USB starts at approx 9:40. You can hear this hiss even from a condenser mic as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK9Kz7jZyVM

[EndlessOyster]

14 minutes ago, Voids said:

Yes that is the mic I have. Apparently the mixer picks up significant digital signal through the USB 

Watch this the test for the 302USB starts at approx 9:40. You can hear this hiss even from a condenser mic as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK9Kz7jZyVM

Its true its a cheap ass mixer and is probably shit, but your lack of knowledge about the microphone and how to use it doesnt give you the right to blame it for your down falls.
You have a microphone which is designed to be used at a distance of less then a inch from the mouth. When your using it 4 inches away you have to turn the gain up so much that the interference is now loud enough to be a problem.

[Voids]

Just now, EndlessOyster said:

Its true its a cheap ass mixer and is probably shit, but your lack of knowledge about the microphone and how to use it doesnt give you the right to blame it for your down falls.
You have a microphone which is designed to be used at a distance of less then a inch from the mouth. When your using it 4 inches away you have to turn the gain up so much that the interference is now loud enough to be a problem.

Please see my edited post with someone using a condenser mic with his setup and the hiss is really apparent. My gain was off on the mixer and my voice was around -15db the hiss was still there. I never used the gain much if at all really as the hiss was noisy before this.

[EndlessOyster]

2 minutes ago, Voids said:

Please see my edited post with someone using a condenser mic with his setup and the hiss is really apparent. My gain was off on the mixer and my voice was around -15db the hiss was still there. I never used the gain much if at all really as the hiss was noisy before this.

1 that guy in the video changed his input level higher and lowered the gain on the mixer which shows he doesnt know what he is doing because that just cause the hiss caused by the mixer to be increased by the computers amplifier. 90% of the video was him comparing the looks and the buttons, what a pointless video.

 

Two I just told you that the problem is the microphone not being used correctly so you have to turn the gain up which then means you hear the hiss. You are using a microphone designed for vocalists singing at a live performance. If that is not what you are doing why do you have that microphone.
If you used the correct microphone for the job you want or that microphone for the job it was designed you wouldnt have a problem with the hiss as you wouldnt have the gain so high so you wouldnt here it.

[Voids]

16 minutes ago, EndlessOyster said:

1 that guy in the video changed his input level higher and lowered the gain on the mixer which shows he doesnt know what he is doing because that just cause the hiss caused by the mixer to be increased by the computers amplifier. 90% of the video was him comparing the looks and the buttons, what a pointless video.

 

Two I just told you that the problem is the microphone not being used correctly so you have to turn the gain up which then means you hear the hiss. You are using a microphone designed for vocalists singing at a live performance. If that is not what you are doing why do you have that microphone.
If you used the correct microphone for the job you want or that microphone for the job it was designed you wouldnt have a problem with the hiss as you wouldnt have the gain so high so you wouldnt here it.

Okay, thanks for input. Still have went for another interface.

 

Edit:

 

I tried putting the mic volume down and increasing the gain and vice versa. Still the same hiss. Moved closer to the mic, still hissing. 

[EndlessOyster]

1 minute ago, Voids said:

Okay, thanks for input. Still have went for another interface.

But your still going to use the same microphone incorrectly which will still cause the same problem.

[Voids]

1 minute ago, EndlessOyster said:

But your still going to use the same microphone incorrectly which will still cause the same problem.

Please see my post; I edited it. I moved closer maybe an inch or less. Still hiss. The mixer just provides hiss, reviews and forums state as much. It is good for having them extra features but unfortunately for £40 what can one expect eh?

[Philosobyte]

3 hours ago, Voids said:

I have went a purchased the personus audiobox interface.

 

Why did you buy a Presonus Audiobox (which can't drive an SM7B even with a Cloudlifter attached giving it 27dB extra gain) instead of a Mackie Onyx Blackjack, as per my suggestion? Was it availability?

[EndlessOyster]

7 minutes ago, Philosobyte said:

Why did you buy a Presonus Audiobox (which can't drive an SM7B even with a Cloudlifter attached giving it 27dB extra gain) instead of a Mackie Onyx Blackjack, as per my suggestion? Was it availability?

He could of got a focusrite for that money as well. And I still dont know why he needs phantom power for the cheap ass behringer mic.

[Philosobyte]

12 minutes ago, EndlessOyster said:

He could of got a focusrite for that money as well. And I still dont know why he needs phantom power for the cheap ass behringer mic.

Maybe he didn't get the Focusrite because I recommended against it in a previous post in this thread. The Focusrite has less clean gain than some of the other interfaces in the price range. 

And your second statement implies that price has to do with whether or not a microphone needs phantom power, which is quite incorrect. Not sure if you actually meant that, though. 

 

edit: As for my statement about the Audiobox, an SM57 driven by the Presonus Audiobox is described as "quiet." If the XM8500 is slightly more sensitive than the SM57, then the Audiobox might still be sufficient. 

 

edit2: @EndlessOyster I also disagree with your statement about a microphone being used only for a single "intended" use case scenario. The SM58 is a live performance vocal microphone, but it's used for studio applications and even instruments as well. The SM57, which is dubbed an "instrument" microphone is no different from the SM58 apart from the fact that the SM58 has a grille and has to move its capsule slightly farther into the microphone as a result. 

Edited February 6, 2016 by Philosobyte

[Voids]

20 minutes ago, Philosobyte said:

Why did you buy a Presonus Audiobox (which can't drive an SM7B even with a Cloudlifter attached giving it 27dB extra gain) instead of a Mackie Onyx Blackjack, as per my suggestion? Was it availability?

It has better overall ratings than the one you suggested which was only 3.4 over 15 ratings compares to the 4.5 over 16 ratings.

 

The reason I didn't get the Scarlett 2i2 is because its quite expensive for a similar audio interface.