Stock CPU Fan failing in Oil Cooled Machine

[Angry Postman]

So LONG story short I've made an HTPC that goes into a perspex box filled with oil that goes into the fish tank with fish swimming about.

Now my problem during this build is that the stock CPU fan worked while filling the oil up but now that it's full and had a power down and power up the fan just twitches every few seconds and doesn't actually get going.  While the fan was running I was getting MAX of about 40 degrees.  Now it's pushing up to about 55 - 60 degrees which normally wouldn't be a problem, but I'd rather not cook my fish!  I ran a load test and got up to 75 degrees.

I'm running an i5 4460 on a GA-B85M-HD3-A.  Yes, I've checked the bios and all related settings to fan control and set everything to full blast but it still twitches without starting.  I'm guessing I need a more robust fan but before I go that route (It's full of oil!!) I'm hoping someone here will have some sort of solution.  It would be lovely if there was a way to bypass what I think is a "jammed fan fail safe".

Attached are pictures for the curious.  I'll be making a full YouTube video once I'm finished

Thanks!!

EDIT:  The fan has been working just fine outside of the oil for about two weeks.  It's only since I've put oil in that the fan struggles to start.

[MatrixGrenade]

did you check to make sure that nothing is obstructing the fan, because it seem like you've got a few wires going over the cpu fan itself.

[A Guy Eating Cereal]

All i can say is "NICE BUILD"  

[zMeul]

you will cook your fish

what cools the oil? I see only one fan in your build and no method of cycling the oil in the tank other than .. surface with the water in the external fish tank 

[Angry Postman]

First thing I checked.  The fan definitely isn't obstructed by anything other than the oil.

[QueenDemetria]

Fans aren't meant to operate in liquids, it puts more stress on them than it would using air. I don't recommend using a fan as a replacement, but would recommend using a pump to direct oil flow towards the heatsink.

[Angry Postman]

The PSU fan runs just fine, a LOT slower than before but it hasn't stopped.  For the safety of my fish QueenDemetria may be right about radiating the oil outside like Linus did with his build.  I don't like it but still.

I DO however have an extra submersible fish tank pump laying about...

[Angry Postman]

To answer zMeul - sheer volume.  That's all I was counting on.  There's about 11 liters of oil in the perspex tank and another 180 liters of water in the fish tank.  This computer is going to do nothing other than run Kodi and my movies/series.  I'm not putting this thing in the fish tank until I have proper results but now I'm leaning towards outside radiators.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

[Peter Vaughan Truslow]

16 minutes ago, Angry Postman said:

So LONG story short I've made an HTPC that goes into a perspex box filled with oil that goes into the fish tank with fish swimming about.

Now my problem during this build is that the stock CPU fan worked while filling the oil up but now that it's full and had a power down and power up the fan just twitches every few seconds and doesn't actually get going.  While the fan was running I was getting MAX of about 40 degrees.  Now it's pushing up to about 55 - 60 degrees which normally wouldn't be a problem, but I'd rather not cook my fish!  I ran a load test and got up to 75 degrees.

I'm running an i5 4460 on a GA-B85M-HD3-A.  Yes, I've checked the bios and all related settings to fan control and set everything to full blast but it still twitches without starting.  I'm guessing I need a more robust fan but before I go that route (It's full of oil!!) I'm hoping someone here will have some sort of solution.  It would be lovely if there was a way to bypass what I think is a "jammed fan fail safe".

Attached are pictures for the curious.  I'll be making a full YouTube video once I'm finished

Thanks!!

EDIT:  The fan has been working just fine outside of the oil for about two weeks.  It's only since I've put oil in that the fan struggles to start.

are your fans running at maxspeeds?

if your CPU temps are good, don't worry about it. the amount of heat being put into the water will be determined by how much power the system consumes, Not how hot your CPU actually is. the only way to decrease how much heat is sinked into the water would be to have a radiator for the oil.

[Angry Postman]

Yes the only fan is running at max.  The PSU fan I don't think is controlled at all (Cheap RX-450).

Luck seems to always be on my side; I've found this "Style King Submersible Pump SP2500".  I tested it in water and it works just fine still.  So I'm going to let it dry, clean it, shove it into the perspex box and point it at the CPU and see what happens tomorrow.

"Boer maak 'n plan!"

I'll report my temps once I've put it in tomorrow, right now is bed time!  I have work in the morning.

Thanks for all the support guys!

[Angry Postman]

I've tinkered some more (Because Google isn't as much fun) and discovered a few things:

• The machine under load with my new (Actually VERY OLD) little water pump pointed at the CPU will reach a max of about 60 degrees under a stress test for half an hour.
• Idle sits at about 42 degrees after waiting for half an hour after the stress test.
• Normal load will stay at an average of 42 degrees (This is with Kodi playing my most demanding video file).  Did this "normal load" test for another half an hour.
• Blowing bubbles through the pump makes a 2 degree difference and PLENTY unpleasant tiny bubbles - so scrap that.
• I SLOWLY drained the oil down until the fan started again so I can confirm for myself that I haven't buggered up the fan.
  • This shows me that the fan will run with itself two thirds submerged,
  • This causes "water" noises... not too keen on that,
  • I didn't break the fan.  YAY!
  • This SEEMS to make NO difference to the temperature having it partly out of the oil (We'll see tomorrow).
  • I'm leaving the oil level at two thirds over the CPU fan for tonight to let everything settle to see what idle temps are like in a new environment.
• Video documented everything for cutting together later
• Decided that I can control a LOT of things specifically pertaining to the maintenance of the fish tank through a Raspberry Pi B 1st gen that I have just laying about.

Guys, oil cooling is a MESS!  I'm sure Linus expressed this in his video but I honestly feel like I've been pumping petrol for a living!  I'm still very excited for the results!  I'll keep this thread updated because I'm sure at least one person is as crazy as me.  I planned as far ahead as I can and I'm now meeting challenges head on... stupid fan!

See attached for added pump.

[Stefan1024]

On 1.2.2016 at 11:27 PM, Angry Postman said:

So LONG story short I've made an HTPC that goes into a perspex box filled with oil that goes into the fish tank with fish swimming about.

Now my problem during this build is that the stock CPU fan worked while filling the oil up but now that it's full and had a power down and power up the fan just twitches every few seconds and doesn't actually get going.  While the fan was running I was getting MAX of about 40 degrees.  Now it's pushing up to about 55 - 60 degrees which normally wouldn't be a problem, but I'd rather not cook my fish!  I ran a load test and got up to 75 degrees.

I'm running an i5 4460 on a GA-B85M-HD3-A.  Yes, I've checked the bios and all related settings to fan control and set everything to full blast but it still twitches without starting.  I'm guessing I need a more robust fan but before I go that route (It's full of oil!!) I'm hoping someone here will have some sort of solution.  It would be lovely if there was a way to bypass what I think is a "jammed fan fail safe".

Attached are pictures for the curious.  I'll be making a full YouTube video once I'm finished

Thanks!!

 

First of all, the heat output of the CPU deosn't change if it's running at 30°C or 80°C. You will heat the oil with about 100 watts unter load anyway!

If you run it for more than a couple of minutes it will heat up the oil significantly and therefor the water with the fish. And kill them probably.

 

Also the fan can't spinn up as the resistance is to high. Try to set it to 100% and once it runns you can reduce the speed.

 

I'm also in the middle of making an oil cooled rig. But I use some heat sinks to cool down the oil:

 

[Angry Postman]

Thanks for the info Stefan.

 

Nice render!  I'm a 3D artist myself

 

I've been watching the graphs on AIDA64 showing me temps of the CPU, the SDD (that's at the bottom of the tank) and the motherboard and I'm seeing exactly what you're talking about.  I'm also using an actual mercury thermometer and the oil itself got up to about 40 degrees.

 

I'm ordering myself an external radiator and I'm going to see if this little pump I have can actually move the oil through the radiator.

[Stefan1024]

1 hour ago, Angry Postman said:

Thanks for the info Stefan.

 

Nice render!  I'm a 3D artist myself

 

I've been watching the graphs on AIDA64 showing me temps of the CPU, the SDD (that's at the bottom of the tank) and the motherboard and I'm seeing exactly what you're talking about.  I'm also using an actual mercury thermometer and the oil itself got up to about 40 degrees.

 

I'm ordering myself an external radiator and I'm going to see if this little pump I have can actually move the oil through the radiator.

 

Please quote people so they get a notification.

 

An external radiator will help for sure. But the treat ransfer througth the walls into the water can not be prevented without an air gap.

[Angry Postman]

58 minutes ago, Stefan1024 said:

But the treat ransfer througth the walls into the water can not be prevented without an air gap.

 

Sorry, I wasn't aware I had to quote.

 

The fish can handle up to about 28 degrees before they start complaining.  I've taken away all their little boards and megaphones so there won't be any protests!

 

I plan to only have this machine running while I watch my movies and the machine basically runs at idle while doing this so I'm hoping with the radiator I've now ordered my fish will be happy.  I'll probably even be able to switch off the fish tank's heater!

[Stefan1024]

The alternative to quote is mentionieng: @Angry Postman
This works also well.

 

For your low power application it could actually work out well with the fishs. How many watts has the heater? And shouldn't it swithc off by itself once a sertain temperature is reached?
 

[Angry Postman]

1 minute ago, Stefan1024 said:

shouldn't it swithc off by itself once a sertain temperature is reached?

 

Yeah it does switch off automatically.  It's a 200w heater that came with the whole tank.  If you google for a Juwel Vision 180 you'll see the exact tank I'm putting everything in.

[Angry Postman]

7 minutes ago, Stefan1024 said:

shouldn't it swithc off by itself once a sertain temperature is reached?

 

 

Sorry, double post, silly browser

 

Edited February 3, 2016 by Angry Postman
Because I like pressing F5.

[FilipSebik]

Don't put fish in there because it will die

[SMR]

47 minutes ago, FilipSebik said:

Don't put fish in there because it will die

 

Oil ring in a fish tank. No fish in oil. Read.

[FilipSebik]

1 minute ago, SMR said:

 

Oil ring in a fish tank. No fish in oil. Read.

Ahh i misread it

[Angry Postman]

Small update:

 

I ran the machine to test "normal" circumstances and see what it does to temperature without the pump running and the CPU fan stuttering.  My three measurements (HDD, Mobo, Chip) all hover around 40.  I stuck a thermometer into the oil and this confirmed my measurements.  This is definitely NOT good for the fish and the health of the actual fish tank because of the heat transfer between oil, perspex, and finally to the water as @Stefan1024 mentioned previously.

 

SO!  I've ordered a radiator, barbs, pipes, and fans.  I'm going to give that pump I already have a go to see what it does for my temps once they arrive tomorrow.  Hopefully before the end of the weekend I'll have everything together and all the oil cleaned up around the house.

[Stefan1024]

@Angry Postman

This measurement sounds reasonable.

With the radiator you should be able to lower the oil temperature to around 5-10°C above ambient temperature.

[Angry Postman]

Radiator and sundries have arrived and I've connected everything except the fans. Pump pushes the oil slowly but maybe that's a good thing. Still need to test. I need longer wire for the fans which I'll get in the morning. Buttons also installed on my "front" I/O panel. Recorded more video content for the actual build show off. 

 

WOW it was difficult plugging the pipe into the pump! 

[Stefan1024]

@Angry Postman: I just realized something!

When you put the PC into the aquarium, the contact surface area is huge and therefor the thermal resistance low. As a result the oil only have to heat up by a few degrees to transfer all the heat to the water. At this low temperature difference, your radiator is not able to dissipiate a lot of heat. I estimate only  30 watts of the 100 watts produced.

 

So you are still quite heavily heating the water!