Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
DannyDem

Can system RAM be used as VRAM?

Recommended Posts

Posted · Original PosterOP

So couple of years ago, using system ram as VRAM was a bad idea as it would cause slowdowns and stuttering. But on the other hand with more recent ram, there aren't any major slowdowns even if you use system RAM at least from what I've seen. I noticed this with the recently released rise of the tomb raider, a guy was using a 980ti to play at 4k with all settings cranked up and the vram usage was pretty much reaching 100% which required the system to use system ram instead (this was observable as at 4k he was using 10gb ram while at 1080p only 6gb was being used) and suprisingly no slowdowns were visible (framerate at 4k was pretty much what a 980ti is capable of)

 

So what's your opinion on this? I do realise VRAM is normally much faster than the ram that we buy for our systems but watching these videos did create some major doubts tbh.

 

Here's the videos btw

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ6f0OyNivE

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMRoVoHUHfk


GPU:Gigabyte G1 980Ti 6GB GDDR5  CPU:Intel i7 6700K 4.0Ghz + Cooler Master 412S RAM:8GB DDR4 Kingston HyperX Fury 2400Mhz (x2) Motherboard:Z170-A Krait Gaming HDD/SSD:1TB Western Digital & 120GB Kingston HyperX Case:NZXT S340 + 3x Corsair AF 140mm + 1x Corsair AF 120mm + 1x Corsair SP 120mm PSU:Seasonic M12II Evo 620W 80 Plus Display: Benq XL2430T 144Hz Sound: Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro & JVC SZ1000 + Schiit Vali + Fiio E17

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. A GPU can cache unimportant data in SYS RAM to free up VRAM if need be


Archangel (Desktop) CPU: i5 4590 GPU:Asus R9 280  3GB RAM:HyperX Beast 2x4GBPSU:SeaSonic S12G 750W Mobo:GA-H97m-HD3 Case:CM Silencio 650 Storage:1 TB WD Red
Celestial (Laptop 1) CPU:i7 4720HQ GPU:GTX 860M 4GB RAM:2x4GB SK Hynix DDR3Storage: 250GB 850 EVO Model:Lenovo Y50-70
Seraph (Laptop 2) CPU:i7 6700HQ GPU:GTX 970M 3GB RAM:2x8GB DDR4Storage: 256GB Samsung 951 + 1TB Toshiba HDD Model:Asus GL502VT

Windows 10 is now MSX! - http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/440190-can-we-start-calling-windows-10/page-6

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, IGPs do use system RAM as VRAM right now. And if you look at the system information in NVIDIA's Control Panel, it'll show Shared System Memory.


"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan.

"If you place a piece of bread somewhere on Earth, and another one on that point's antipodes, well you made yourself an Earth-sandwich." - Michael from Vsauce.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Snip

 

If they run out of physical video ram they tend to page to the HDD. IDK about regular ram though.


How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill

iPhone 8 Plus (Mid 2019 to present)

Samaritan XL (Early 2018 - present with 2019 GPU upgrade and 2020 RAM upgrade) - AMD Ryzen 7 1700X (8C/16T) , MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon, Corsair 32GB Vengeance LPX DDR4-2666 (2020) ,  Asus ROG Strix RX Vega 56 , Corsair RM850i PSU, Corsair H100i v2 CPU Cooler, Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SSD, Seagate BarraCuda 2TB HDD (2018), Seagate BarraCuda 1TB HDD (2014), NZXT S340 Elite, Corsair ML 120 Pro, Corsair ML 140 Pro

Link to post
Share on other sites

If they run out of physical video ram they tend to page to the HDD. IDK about regular ram though.

System RAM pages to the hard drive.


"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan.

"If you place a piece of bread somewhere on Earth, and another one on that point's antipodes, well you made yourself an Earth-sandwich." - Michael from Vsauce.

Link to post
Share on other sites

System RAM pages to the hard drive.

 

I was saying VRAM pages to HDDs.  I meant IDK if  VRAM pages to Regular RAM before or after HDDs.

 

Sorry for not being specific. I know RAM pages to HDDs unless you disable it.


How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill

iPhone 8 Plus (Mid 2019 to present)

Samaritan XL (Early 2018 - present with 2019 GPU upgrade and 2020 RAM upgrade) - AMD Ryzen 7 1700X (8C/16T) , MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon, Corsair 32GB Vengeance LPX DDR4-2666 (2020) ,  Asus ROG Strix RX Vega 56 , Corsair RM850i PSU, Corsair H100i v2 CPU Cooler, Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SSD, Seagate BarraCuda 2TB HDD (2018), Seagate BarraCuda 1TB HDD (2014), NZXT S340 Elite, Corsair ML 120 Pro, Corsair ML 140 Pro

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was saying VRAM pages to HDDs.  I meant IDK if  VRAM pages to Regular RAM before or after HDDs.

 

Sorry for not being specific. I know RAM pages to HDDs unless you disable it.

From a technical perspective, I think it would make more sense to have VRAM page to the system RAM because of how bandwidth-hungry graphics cards are.

 

I mean compare 224GB/s to a measly 500MB/s for sequential performance on SSDs. Even slower RAM can achieve 10GB/s which is substantially faster. Just my thoughts.


"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan.

"If you place a piece of bread somewhere on Earth, and another one on that point's antipodes, well you made yourself an Earth-sandwich." - Michael from Vsauce.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes the iGPU normally does and yes the dGPU will if its out of VRAM, so double yes yes! ;)


Piledriver-Tux / Vishera-X8-8370 (gaming + workstation PC)
Spoiler

Case: Cooler Master HAF XB Evo Black / Case Fan(s) Front: Noctua NF-A14 ULN 140mm Premium Fans / Case Fan(s) Rear: Corsair Air Series AF120 Quiet Edition (red) / Case Fan(s) Side: Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX 60mm Premium Fan / Case Fan VRM: SUNON MagLev KDE1209PTV3 92mm / Controller: Sony Dualshock 4 Wireless (DS4Windows) / Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo / CPU: AMD FX-8370 Black Edition Eight-Core @4.3GHz (Global Foundries 32nm) / Display: ASUS 24" LED VN247H (67Hz OC) 1920x1080p / GPU: Gigabyte Radeon RX Vega 56 Gaming OC @1501MHz (Samsung 14nm FinFET) / Keyboard: Logitech Desktop K120 (Nordic) / Motherboard: MSI 970 GAMING, Socket-AM3+ / Mouse: Razer Abyssus 2014 / PCI-E: ASRock USB 3.1/A+C (PCI Express x4) / PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2, 850W PSU / RAM 1, 2, 3 & 4: Samsung DDR3-2133MHz CL9-11-11-31 (PC3-17066) 16.38GB (4x4GB) / Operating System 1: Android x86 / Operating System 2: Windows 10 Home / Sound: Zombee Z300 / Storage 1: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD / Storage 1: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD / Storage 3: Seagate® Barracuda 2TB HDD / Storage 4: Seagate® Desktop 2TB SSHD / Wifi: TP-Link TL-WN951N 11n Wireless Adapter / https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZW4Jtg

Steamroller-Tux / Godavari-X4-880 (secondary gaming PC)

Spoiler

Case: Medion Micro-ATX Case / Case Fan Front: SUNON MagLev PF70251VX-Q000-S99 70mm / Case Fan Rear: Fanner Tech(Shen Zhen)Co.,LTD. 80mm (Purple) / Controller: Play Xbox 360 Wired / Cooler: AMD Near-silent 125w Thermal Solution / CPU: AMD Athlon X4 880K Black Edition Elite Quad-Core @4.3GHz (Global Foundries 28nm) / Display: HP 19" Flat Panel L1940 (75Hz) 1280x1024 / GPU: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GD5 OC "Afterburner" @1450MHz (T.S.M.C. 28nm) / Keyboard: HP KB-0316 PS/2 (Nordic) / Motherboard: MSI A78M-E45 V2, Socket-FM2+ / Mouse: Razer Abyssus 2014 / PCI-E: ASRock USB 3.1/A+C (PCI Express x4) / PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2, 550W PSU / RAM 1, 2, 3 & 4: SK hynix DDR3-1866MHz CL9-10-11-27-45 (PC3-14900) 16.38GB (4x4GB) / Operating System 1: Ubuntu Gnome 16.04 LTS (Xenial Xerus) / Operating System 2: Windows 10 Home / Sound 1: Zombee Z500 / Sound 2: Logitech Stereo Speakers S-150 / Storage 1: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD / Storage 2: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD / Storage 3: Western Digital Passport 2TB Portable External 2.5" HDD / Storage 4: Western Digital Elements Desktop 2TB HDD / Wifi: TP-Link TL-WN851N 11n Wireless Adapter / https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LBjbw6

Complete portable device SoC history:
Spoiler
Apple A4 - Apple iPod touch (4th generation)
Apple A5 - Apple iPod touch (5th generation)
Apple A9 - Apple iPhone 6s Plus
MSM8926 - Microsoft Lumia 640 LTE
MSM8974AA - Blackberry Passport
MT2601 - TicWatch E
MT6580 - TECNO Spark 2 (1GB RAM)
MT6592M - my|phone my32 (orange)
MT6592M - my|phone my32 (yellow)
MT6735 - HMD Nokia 3 Dual SIM
MT6737 - Cherry Mobile Flare S6
MT6739 - my|phone myX8 (blue)
MT6739 - my|phone myX8 (gold)
MT6750 - Huawei honor 6C Pro / V9 Play
MT6765 - TECNO Pouvoir 3 Plus
MT6797D - my|phone Brown Tab 1
SDM710 - Oppo Realme 3 Pro
 
Link to post
Share on other sites

From a technical perspective, I think it would make more sense to have VRAM page to the system RAM because of how bandwidth-hungry graphics cards are.

 

I mean compare 224GB/s to a measly 500MB/s for sequential performance on SSDs. Even slower RAM can achieve 10GB/s which is substantially faster. Just my thoughts.

 

Well IDK. If so then in theory I would have some fast perf when I run out of VRAM. Since I have quad channel DDR3 that's 51.2GB/s . Not bad if true. Still wouldn't be that fast though.


How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill

iPhone 8 Plus (Mid 2019 to present)

Samaritan XL (Early 2018 - present with 2019 GPU upgrade and 2020 RAM upgrade) - AMD Ryzen 7 1700X (8C/16T) , MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon, Corsair 32GB Vengeance LPX DDR4-2666 (2020) ,  Asus ROG Strix RX Vega 56 , Corsair RM850i PSU, Corsair H100i v2 CPU Cooler, Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SSD, Seagate BarraCuda 2TB HDD (2018), Seagate BarraCuda 1TB HDD (2014), NZXT S340 Elite, Corsair ML 120 Pro, Corsair ML 140 Pro

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes the iGPU normally does and yes the dGPU will if its out of VRAM, so double yes yes! ;)

 

So that's why I got loads of more FPS when I jumped to 16GB! I got like 30 fps more from 8Gb -> 16GB.

 

and my friends couldn't explain it. Granted they use 8Gb ram.


How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill

iPhone 8 Plus (Mid 2019 to present)

Samaritan XL (Early 2018 - present with 2019 GPU upgrade and 2020 RAM upgrade) - AMD Ryzen 7 1700X (8C/16T) , MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon, Corsair 32GB Vengeance LPX DDR4-2666 (2020) ,  Asus ROG Strix RX Vega 56 , Corsair RM850i PSU, Corsair H100i v2 CPU Cooler, Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SSD, Seagate BarraCuda 2TB HDD (2018), Seagate BarraCuda 1TB HDD (2014), NZXT S340 Elite, Corsair ML 120 Pro, Corsair ML 140 Pro

Link to post
Share on other sites

So that's why I got loads of more FPS when I jumped to 16GB! I got like 30 fps more from 8Gb -> 16GB.

 

and my friends couldn't explain it. Granted they use 8Gb ram.

Yes but system RAM will always be slower than VRAM! ;)


Piledriver-Tux / Vishera-X8-8370 (gaming + workstation PC)
Spoiler

Case: Cooler Master HAF XB Evo Black / Case Fan(s) Front: Noctua NF-A14 ULN 140mm Premium Fans / Case Fan(s) Rear: Corsair Air Series AF120 Quiet Edition (red) / Case Fan(s) Side: Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX 60mm Premium Fan / Case Fan VRM: SUNON MagLev KDE1209PTV3 92mm / Controller: Sony Dualshock 4 Wireless (DS4Windows) / Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo / CPU: AMD FX-8370 Black Edition Eight-Core @4.3GHz (Global Foundries 32nm) / Display: ASUS 24" LED VN247H (67Hz OC) 1920x1080p / GPU: Gigabyte Radeon RX Vega 56 Gaming OC @1501MHz (Samsung 14nm FinFET) / Keyboard: Logitech Desktop K120 (Nordic) / Motherboard: MSI 970 GAMING, Socket-AM3+ / Mouse: Razer Abyssus 2014 / PCI-E: ASRock USB 3.1/A+C (PCI Express x4) / PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2, 850W PSU / RAM 1, 2, 3 & 4: Samsung DDR3-2133MHz CL9-11-11-31 (PC3-17066) 16.38GB (4x4GB) / Operating System 1: Android x86 / Operating System 2: Windows 10 Home / Sound: Zombee Z300 / Storage 1: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD / Storage 1: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD / Storage 3: Seagate® Barracuda 2TB HDD / Storage 4: Seagate® Desktop 2TB SSHD / Wifi: TP-Link TL-WN951N 11n Wireless Adapter / https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZW4Jtg

Steamroller-Tux / Godavari-X4-880 (secondary gaming PC)

Spoiler

Case: Medion Micro-ATX Case / Case Fan Front: SUNON MagLev PF70251VX-Q000-S99 70mm / Case Fan Rear: Fanner Tech(Shen Zhen)Co.,LTD. 80mm (Purple) / Controller: Play Xbox 360 Wired / Cooler: AMD Near-silent 125w Thermal Solution / CPU: AMD Athlon X4 880K Black Edition Elite Quad-Core @4.3GHz (Global Foundries 28nm) / Display: HP 19" Flat Panel L1940 (75Hz) 1280x1024 / GPU: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GD5 OC "Afterburner" @1450MHz (T.S.M.C. 28nm) / Keyboard: HP KB-0316 PS/2 (Nordic) / Motherboard: MSI A78M-E45 V2, Socket-FM2+ / Mouse: Razer Abyssus 2014 / PCI-E: ASRock USB 3.1/A+C (PCI Express x4) / PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2, 550W PSU / RAM 1, 2, 3 & 4: SK hynix DDR3-1866MHz CL9-10-11-27-45 (PC3-14900) 16.38GB (4x4GB) / Operating System 1: Ubuntu Gnome 16.04 LTS (Xenial Xerus) / Operating System 2: Windows 10 Home / Sound 1: Zombee Z500 / Sound 2: Logitech Stereo Speakers S-150 / Storage 1: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD / Storage 2: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD / Storage 3: Western Digital Passport 2TB Portable External 2.5" HDD / Storage 4: Western Digital Elements Desktop 2TB HDD / Wifi: TP-Link TL-WN851N 11n Wireless Adapter / https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LBjbw6

Complete portable device SoC history:
Spoiler
Apple A4 - Apple iPod touch (4th generation)
Apple A5 - Apple iPod touch (5th generation)
Apple A9 - Apple iPhone 6s Plus
MSM8926 - Microsoft Lumia 640 LTE
MSM8974AA - Blackberry Passport
MT2601 - TicWatch E
MT6580 - TECNO Spark 2 (1GB RAM)
MT6592M - my|phone my32 (orange)
MT6592M - my|phone my32 (yellow)
MT6735 - HMD Nokia 3 Dual SIM
MT6737 - Cherry Mobile Flare S6
MT6739 - my|phone myX8 (blue)
MT6739 - my|phone myX8 (gold)
MT6750 - Huawei honor 6C Pro / V9 Play
MT6765 - TECNO Pouvoir 3 Plus
MT6797D - my|phone Brown Tab 1
SDM710 - Oppo Realme 3 Pro
 
Link to post
Share on other sites

DDR4 probably helps a lot because of the faster speed. Similarly it's quad channel too.

Is ddr4 and ddr3 not the same at the same speed ie both at 2400mhz ??

AMD (and proud) r7 1700 4ghz- 

also (1600) 

asus rog crosshairs vi hero x370-

MSI 980ti G6 1506mhz slix2 -

h110 pull - acer xb270hu 1440p -

 corsair 750D - corsair 16gb 2933

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is ddr4 and ddr3 not the same at the same speed ie both at 2400mhz ??

DDR4 achieves more bandwidth but has higher latency.


"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan.

"If you place a piece of bread somewhere on Earth, and another one on that point's antipodes, well you made yourself an Earth-sandwich." - Michael from Vsauce.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is ddr4 and ddr3 not the same at the same speed ie both at 2400mhz ??

 

A lot of the DDR4 RAM is now 3 Ghz. Also very few people have 2400 Mhz. 

 

DDR4 achieves more bandwidth but has higher latency.

The thing is true latency = clock cycle time * cas latency.

 

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/memory-performance-speed-latency

 

DDR3 1600 CL 9 = 11.25 true latency

DDR3 2400 CL 11 = 9.16 true latency

DDR4 3000 CL15 = 9.9 true latency

DDR3 3400 CL 16 = 9.44 true latency 

 

So DDR4 latency is only slightly worse than the top-end DDR3 ram but more importantly better than most mid-range DDR3 ram. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×