AMD Zen to Bring Greater than 40% IPC Increase, New Reports Suggests

[TechGod]

FinFET are into Intel's clockspeed ceiling after Sandy Bridge. Don't expect super high clocks, especially with 8 cores that each have dedicated AVX 256 units.

I'm expecting around mid 3ghz.

[TechGod]

40% from Piledriver can't be much better than Sandy or Ivy ehh?

It's 40% from excavator...

[FireFox]

It's 40% from excavator...

 

Ahh but Excavator still isn't great though, I really hope AMD kick this out soon because late 2016 early 2017 is too late I think. Skylake is already out and more than likely Kaby Lake will be out by then.

 

Come on AMD, we need you.

[LAwLz]

uhm, any choice made by a human being, in this case you, is 100% subjective.

 

to explain to you, since you seem to be incapable of understandign the meaning of this:

source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/subjective

 

Source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/objective

 

Hopefully you will now realize the fallacy of your statement.

 

Also, you fail to understand my math, quite horribly so. But that is fine, ill leave it up to you to try understand what it is your are not understanding, rather then spend time having you twist my words back and forth to suit your own opinion.

 

cheers.

I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone say 100 * 1.4 = 140 is "subjective".

I did not choose the rules of math. I am simply applying them in the correct context.

 

I am amazed at your lack of mathematical knowledge.

I completely understand your math, but the problem is that you are not using the correct math in the right situation. I already explained to you why you are wrong, and gave you the correct calculation, as well as checked it for you. Just go back to my post and you will see that my post is 100% accurate, and yours makes no sense at all in this context.

There are times and places to use the average percentage method, but this is not one of them.

[Glenwing]

the question is 40% from what? and at what frequency?

 

if zen scores stock sandy bridge single thread, but running at 5 ghz i dont see it being competitive with intel

40% higher than excavator at the same frequency. They're not claiming 40% higher performance. They're claiming 40% higher IPC, which is performance per core per GHz. If it's clocked way lower than Piledriver it may only be equivalent in performance. If it's clocked much higher, it will be more than 40% higher in performance.

[Nena Trinity]

From Bulldozer / Vishera 20%+ / Steamroller 20%+ / Carrizo 20%+ / Zen 40%+ or more...

[IAMSWIFT1]

I hope it happens,Maybe my next build will be all AMD,but theres a pretty big chance it might not be that good

[TechGod]

Ahh but Excavator still isn't great though, I really hope AMD kick this out soon because late 2016 early 2017 is too late I think. Skylake is already out and more than likely Kaby Lake will be out by then.

Come on AMD, we need you.

Excavator isn't actually that bad.

[marldorthegreat]

Excavator isn't actually that bad.

Its kind off for notebooks only, as after 3ghz it uses a lot of power.

[MetaDrow]

Can't wait to see what AMD has to offer with Zen, I want an upgrade with the successor of my FX8350. Maybe they should do a collaboration with Asus since they have a "Zen" lineup like a Zen mobo, might be a cool idea to do a Zen theme build.

[Dabombinable]

Excavator isn't actually that bad.

Its not bad but its not good either. The best it can be described as is OK (its not an atrocity like Netburst so it can't be called bad)

[Dabombinable]

Can't wait to see what AMD has to offer with Zen, I want an upgrade with the successor of my FX8350. Maybe they should do a collaboration with Asus since they have a "Zen" lineup like a Zen mobo, might be a cool idea to do a Zen theme build.

As long as Asus has none of the AM4 mobo suddenly having the onboard audio die.....

[looncraz]

 

 

 

Nope, if AMD exceeds Intel's enthusiast (read: more money than sense consumers) pricing they will be in for a world of hurt.

 

Zen are consumer CPUs with consumer-level die size regardless of nearly reaching/ matching the levels of old Intel enthusiast chips.

 

They might price Zen at the level of Intel consumer 4-cores, but that would be it. They are far away from the brand recognition to be able to pull Intel's crap.

 

 

That's not how market pricing works.

 

AMD will price in accordance to the relative performance one should expect from a contemporary Intel product.

 

So if a Quad Core Zen CPU # 3.2GHz matches a Core i5-4460, it will cost about as much.  AMD would be STUPID to charge less.  They differentiate by creating more upward mobility for upgrades or a more enticing/affordable platform, that way the costs are lower for the ecosystem while they still stand to make a profit.

 

Remember: Intel can ALWAYS reduce their prices if AMD comes out swinging.  They have segmented their market, so there is a high burden to jump to the 6+ core on Intel, which is where AMD will strike.

 

Pretend that Zen has the exact IPC of Haswell and Intel is still only with Skylake when Zen debuts.  The pricing and market positioning will be simple:

AMD Zen Competitive Positioning OptionsINTEL      -     AMD     -      PRICEi3 2C+HT   - 4C          -     $120~$150i5 4C      - 4C+SMT/MHz  -     $165~$220i7 4C+HT   - ""/6C       -     $250~$300i7 6C+HT   - 6C+SMT+MHz  -     $350~$400           - 8C          -     $400+ (possible binning)i7 8C+HT   - 8C+SMT+MHz  -     $600+

This will prevent Intel from changing their prices to be competitive, forcing them to hold their course until they have genuinely address their own marketing position (this could take months after Zen's release).  This will also maximize AMD profit while once again appearing to be challenging Intel's best (even if they have an IPC disadvantage, they can enable SMT or offer more clockrate (or both) in a given price bracket.  The lower SKUs are a matter of harvesting (of which there should be plenty - at least initially).

 

AMD can compete with the locked Intel CPUs with similarly priced, but unlocked, CPUs and gain an advantage as a result as well.  AMD will certainly be trying to win back mind share, so they will almost undoubtedly be keeping most/all Zen SKUs with fully unlocked overclocking.  I don't expect AMD to aim for the low end of the market (Pentium) right away, but they'd be wise to do so.  We may even see a dual core Zen die if that's the case.

 

Logistically speaking, we will probably see the smaller cores first, with the higher end CPUs being released months later.

[xiej]

Crystallwell, GTX 950 performance in Iris Pro 7500, 6 cores in Kaby Lake, Intel.

Then I'll reconsider buying Zen.

[SurvivorNVL]

Crystallwell, GTX 950 performance in Iris Pro 7500, 6 cores in Kaby Lake, Intel.

Then I'll reconsider buying Zen.

If Kaby-lake has 6 cores, I am getting Z170 tomorrow.

[TechGod]

Its not bad but its not good either. The best it can be described as is OK (its not an atrocity like Netburst so it can't be called bad)

Yeah. Would have done AMD a world of good if they could have bought it to desktop.

[LokiFire]

Can't wait to see what AMD has to offer with Zen, I want an upgrade with the successor of the Phenom II. Maybe they should do a collaboration with Asus since they have a "Zen" lineup like a Zen mobo, might be a cool idea to do a Zen theme build.

FTFY

[Kamina]

I have a feeling it will still be the underdog cpu. If it's priced right, then it shouldn't be so bad.

[Humbug]

40% higher than excavator at the same frequency. They're not claiming 40% higher performance. They're claiming 40% higher IPC, which is performance per core per GHz. If it's clocked way lower than Piledriver it may only be equivalent in performance. If it's clocked much higher, it will be more than 40% higher in performance.

Exactly. You can already see so many people all over the Internet twisting AMD's words

And these people when the CPU is released will claim that they have been misled.

 

the question is 40% from what? and at what frequency?

It's pretty straightforward. They're saying 40% IPC over excavator.

You cannot talk about absolute performance until you have finalized the exact product spec and it's clock speed + turbo speed. Until then you can only talk about the merits of the architecture.

 

[Humbug]

Are you insane? It's 40% IPC over Excavator. Plus the 14nm LPP process will allow it to clock pretty high so expect better than Haswell level performance.

The thing is not only is it a new process node, it's also a brand new architecture which has nothing to do with previous designs.

So we have absolutely no reference point from which to speculate regarding the possible clockspeeds. We don't even have enough info to make an educated guess.

Maybe it will top out at 3.5Ghz. Or Maybe it will top out near 5Ghz like piledriver... we just don't know.

 

 

FinFET ate into Intel's clockspeed ceiling after Sandy Bridge. Don't expect super high clocks, especially with 8 cores that each have dedicated AVX 256 units.

Hmm but modern Intel chips are still able to easily get well above 4Ghz.

I think AMD will be satisfied if they can do the same (combined with their IPC improvements).

 

They will probably set the stock clock speeds relatively high though so that they can look good on day 1 reviews and performance benchmarks. Even if it means less OC headroom...

[Glenwing]

Exactly. You can already see so many people all over the Internet twisting AMD's words

And these people when the CPU is released will claim that they have been misled.

 

It's pretty straightforward. They're saying 40% IPC over excavator.

You cannot talk about absolute performance until you have finalized the exact product spec and it's clock speed + turbo speed. Until then you can only talk about the merits of the architecture.

While most people will be expecting a 40% single-thread performance increase, which will not happen if it is below 4.0GHz, fortunately most people who don't understand the statement also think it will be 40% over the FX-8350, not over Excavator. While the IPC difference isn't huge it does give a little bit of leeway for AMD, even if it's clocked at ~3.5GHz it will probably be at least 40% stronger than the FX-8350, and the less informed people will be satisfied

[Elfuego]

The new motto of the AMD:

 

In Keller we Trust

 

I do hope that is really close to haswell IPC; but manages to give me a decent bump in core count over my HSW-E machine. I have a 6950X pre-ordered because need moar cores for UE4.

[Humbug]

While most people will be expecting a 40% single-thread performance increase, which will not happen if it is below 4.0GHz, fortunately most people who don't understand the statement also think it will be 40% over the FX-8350, not over Excavator. While the IPC difference isn't huge it does give a little bit of leeway for AMD, even if it's clocked at ~3.5GHz it will probably be at least 40% stronger than the FX-8350, and the less informed people will be satisfied

Yes but AMD may also want to hit the 4Ghz mark because it could be important when selling to the less tech savvy.

It just looks impressive for people who do not even check benchmarks. Nice number to put on the box / product spec..

[Dabombinable]

Yeah. Would have done AMD a world of good if they could have bought it to desktop.

Yep. But AMD is AMD and since around 2011 its as if they've gone "fuck logic".

 

Yes but AMD may also want to hit the 4Ghz mark because it could be important when selling to the less tech savvy.

It just looks impressive for people who do not even check benchmarks. Nice number to put on the box / product spec..

Same as "8 cores" when its really 4 modules. A lot of people get sucked in.

[Prysin]

Yep. But AMD is AMD and since around 2011 its as if they've gone "fuck logic".

 

Same as "8 cores" when its really 4 modules. A lot of people get sucked in.

Around 2011, Lisa Su was not in charge.

 

Look at what she has done for the company in a few years... they've been hundreds of millions in the hole every year (still are), yet now they are approaching (albeit slowly) profitability.

 

Saying they went "Fuck logic" is far from right. They  have been playing their cards extremely carefully, with plans that were YEARS ahead of their competitors (APUs, whilst seemingly a failure, they are great for OEM systems. Low cost and high power for the price. GCN anyone? DX12 ready in 2012, 4 years before the first DX12 game demo was out)...

 

The only people who said "Fuck logic" was the ones in charge pre Bulldozer. The ones who though bulldozer was ACTUALLY a good idea... those people said "fuck logic"

 

 

Also, depending on the CPU workload it IS 8 "cores"... Although some workloads rely more on float, and as such it would be only 4 modules.