AMD's quarterly earnings report - operating loss of 49 million and net loss of 102 million USD

[Sakkura]

@Sakkura

 

people bitch about FX having poor minimums and whatnot. So why are you defending a CPU that is notably worse in minimum FPS, even when OCd, then a Athlon 860k??

A dual core is fine for simple tasks, but modern games are increasingly becoming more and more multi-threaded. It is no longer a question whether the game itself simply support multi-threading, infact more and more titles NEED multi-threading, because without it CPU bottlenecks are bound to happen.

 

A pentium G3258 is only "gr8 m8" because it can be overclocked. In terms of gaming, no other pentium is even worth using for AAA games because at stock, no pentium (including the G3258) cannot play games properly. The minimum FPS and lag spikes will ruin the experience.

Overclocked, the G3258 does better, but it still struggles.

 

Funnily enough, the G3258 would probably do fine with a Z97 board and 2400MHz dual channel DDR3, as this would help increase the minimums to a degree over running 1333 or 1600MHz. However. most people seem to favor those B81/85 boards because of their lower cost but still ample OC headroom (for a Pentium its enough). However these boards cannot run more then 1600MHz RAM. So minimums on the G3258 is bound to be shit.

 

The G3258 simply has met its expiration date in terms of gaming. 2015 was the last year it would be possible to comfortably use it for gaming. Today and onwards in the future, games will need more then two threads to operate smoothly, and the G3258 cannot supply that. It simply CAN NOT.

 

Stop beating a dead horse.

 

The Pentium G3258 generally outperforms the Athlon x4 860K, though there are exceptions. Some games are becoming more multithreaded, sure. So what? If the CPU has enough performance to run them alright, then it doesn't matter. And the G3258 does run most games alright. Of course it's not as good as a Core i3 or a Core i5, but different people have different requirements.

 

The Athlon x4 860K is an interesting point of comparison by the way, because it does come in a version with a good iGPU. That's the A10-7850K. That's a much more viable APU for budget gaming than anything Intel has released. Not because it has more CPU performance, not even because it has more GPU performance, but because it's priced appropriately for gamers on a tight budget.

 

The G3258 can definitely be used comfortably for gaming in 2016.

 

And you're beating the dead horse just as much as I am.

 

 

Okay, i was mistaken. The G3258 does not make up 1% of Pentiums. It makes up 0.005952% of all Pentiums. After all, there are 168 different models. Also, if you read the context of my sentence, you would know I was speaking literally when i said "99% of pentiums are not the G3258". I have no idea how I could have made that more obvious, without including a crude drawing to go with it. Now that we've gotten the math out of the way, lets address the rest of your wall of text and get down to the bottom of why you are wrong.

 

First of all, I am not a liar. My use of the word "redefine" is 100% correct, as I paired them with "market segments". You said the G3258 changed the Pentium's market. Does that not fall in line with my use of the statement "redefined its market segment"?

 

 

 

Oh, and let me pick out this hilarious part of your wall of text. 

 

This is the most absurd claim i've seen in a while. For something to change the market, it means the change must hold for future generations. Hence the word "change". It changed nothing. The Pentiums that immediately followed it, were locked down exactly like the ones that came before it. No change was made. 

 

Also, you have completely confused "Special Edition" and "Limited Edition". Perhaps that is why it has yet to sink in that this G3258 is not a normal pentium, and does not speak for all pentiums when one uses the term "pentium". "All pentium's are gaming CPU's, ESPECIALLY the G3258". Yeah, and my Athlon 2400+ is still a gaming CPU because it can play a 10 year old MMO. 

 

Face it friend. You generalized all Pentiums because of a single overclockable pentium. You have clearly never owned one, and yet you argue with a man that has owned not one, but TWO overclocked Pentiums, both of which failed to play some of the latest AAA titles. 

 

As for the GT 730, how is my logic flawed? I said it is marketed as a multimedia card. Nvidia's Official website lists it as such. Same with EVGA and MSI. I included the "3x the performance of integrated graphics" bit, because it was also included. The price of a product has nothing to do with its intended purpose. By your logic, there is no reason for the Titan X to cost $1000 because its just a gaming card. It lacks the raw compute power that the Kepler Tesla's/Titan's had to be anything else. 

 

"I provided outdated information from one source that the game runs fine". Let me show you how things are going down AFTER the patches that broke dual cores forever in GTA 5. Oh, and don't just say "don't patch it then" because then you can't play it online. 

 

Plenty more video's, just don't want to flood this wall of text with them. I've even tried every fix listed in all of those videos, which is mostly videos about Nvidia's frame skipping, or creating an ini file to disable HT, or "use high priority on the game and close the rockstar launcher after opening the client". None of it worked.

 

You keep saying the G3258 is a gaming CPU. I'll be over here knowing it is not, seeing as I have actually used one. Actually, i used a Pentium that was better than the G3258 in every single aspect, and it was not enough to make Elder Scrolls Online a smooth experience. My little brother complained about his 4.2ghz on the latest WoW patch. So even for MMO's, the Pentium is starting to lose it's appeal. 

 

In summary: I am right. It is pointless for Intel to add stronger iGPU to a Pentium, when the Pentium itself is the bottleneck, not the iGPU. Before you try to run this argument into the ground, i suggest you actually go out and buy a G3258 so you can at least have some experience to draw from.

 

 

Your source doesn't show that many Pentiums, so you're arguing against yourself there. Besides, it's not about the number of models that exist at a given point, or have existed in the past.

 

It's funny that you accuse ME of writing a wall of text when you're throwing out huge walls of text repeatedly.

 

You claimed I had said the Pentium G3258 redefined the market. I never said that. Changing something is not the same as redefining it.

 

No, for something to change the market does not require that the change lasts. You're making an absurd claim, that all change must be permanent to qualify as change. Change can be temporary. Something can change in one direction, then later change back. That doesn't mean nothing changed. This is really basic stuff you're being silly about.

 

I generalized all Pentiums? What kind of nonsense is this? I specifically singled it out as distinct from the other Pentiums!

 

And your logic that the GT 730 is not a gaming card is immediately invalidated when Nvidia markets it based on its gaming performance.

 

Random youtube videos prove nothing except that you're grasping at straws. Your ludicrous assertion that "in summary: I am right" is further evidence of that. Someone who's right doesn't have to make that kind of childish claim.

 

Hey bub. Ever heard of the Penitum G2120? Back in 2012/2013, one of the best budget gaming CPUs you could get before the AMD Athlon X4 750/60K came to town.

There are other Intel Core i-based Pentiums, you know. The G3258 was not the one that changed the lineup, it simply added to it.

 

Hey bub... the G2120 couldn't be overclocked, and it wasn't as high profile as the G3258 because it was a locked chip.

[Prysin]

The Pentium G3258 generally outperforms the Athlon x4 860K, though there are exceptions. Some games are becoming more multithreaded, sure. So what? If the CPU has enough performance to run them alright, then it doesn't matter. And the G3258 does run most games alright. Of course it's not as good as a Core i3 or a Core i5, but different people have different requirements.

 

The Athlon x4 860K is an interesting point of comparison by the way, because it does come in a version with a good iGPU. That's the A10-7850K. That's a much more viable APU for budget gaming than anything Intel has released. Not because it has more CPU performance, not even because it has more GPU performance, but because it's priced appropriately for gamers on a tight budget.

 

The G3258 can definitely be used comfortably for gaming in 2016.

 

And you're beating the dead horse just as much as I am.

 

 

Your source doesn't show that many Pentiums, so you're arguing against yourself there. Besides, it's not about the number of models that exist at a given point, or have existed in the past.

 

It's funny that you accuse ME of writing a wall of text when you're throwing out huge walls of text repeatedly.

 

You claimed I had said the Pentium G3258 redefined the market. I never said that. Changing something is not the same as redefining it.

 

No, for something to change the market does not require that the change lasts. You're making an absurd claim, that all change must be permanent to qualify as change. Change can be temporary. Something can change in one direction, then later change back. That doesn't mean nothing changed. This is really basic stuff you're being silly about.

 

I generalized all Pentiums? What kind of nonsense is this? I specifically singled it out as distinct from the other Pentiums!

 

And your logic that the GT 730 is not a gaming card is immediately invalidated when Nvidia markets it based on its gaming performance.

 

Random youtube videos prove nothing except that you're grasping at straws. Your ludicrous assertion that "in summary: I am right" is further evidence of that. Someone who's right doesn't have to make that kind of childish claim.

 

 

Hey bub... the G2120 couldn't be overclocked, and it wasn't as high profile as the G3258 because it was a locked chip.

following your logic:

 

you're in a blizzard, freezing to death. You piss your pants and feel warm. Not much later you freeze to death.

 

Did pissing your pants change anything?

 

NO. you still die from the cold.

 

 

Aka did the G3258 change anything?

 

NO, pentiums are still shit for gaming.

[LokiFire]

You really need a source for the statement that "99% of pentiums are not the G3258"? That should be self explanatory. Oh well, ask and ye shall receive.  http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/cpu/#s=9&sort=a7&page=1

 

Plenty of Pentiums that are not called "G3258". Once again, you ignore the context of my posts and call out random sentences without understanding their meaning. Your entire point is that the G3258 "redefined pentiums" but its the only unlocked pentium out of dozens of pentiums on the market today. You can't say that a special edition CPU redefined the entire market segment for a product. It's a special edition chip, meaning not normal. How many times am I going to have to repeat myself until you understand that piece of information?

 

Also, the GT 730 is not advertised as a budget gaming card. It is listed officially by Nvidia as a "Multimedia card" followed by "3x the gaming performance of integrated graphics" (which btw, is no longer true). Even their board partners advertise it as multimedia. 

 

Also, that GTA 5 review is way off. The patches that went down has completely ruined the G3258 (And pretty much every dual core) performance in that game. The Ubisoft games are unplayable (for obvious reasons) and the others that i mentioned are playable, but have situations that can cause the CPU to stutter hard (Battlefield 4 multiplayer did this on me plenty of times, in situations that required me to not stutter for me to survive, talk about frustrating).

 

You want to know the secret as to why the G3258 was the 14th best selling CPU on Amazon? Because it is a cheap overclocking toy. It overclocks extremely easy, and any newbie overclocker can tinker with it without killing one of their i7's. I abused my G3258 like no other, just to test the limitations of certain voltages. Couple this with the fact that Amazon often has it on sale cheaper than Newegg (Got mine for $55 on Amazon back when it was $70 on Newegg) means that Amazon will get a large influx of business from people looking for cheap overclockable HTPC CPU's or the MMO/MOBA crowd looking for fast CPU's on a budget.

 

Yes, once again, i solidified your point regarding MMO's and MOBA's (If you look, i was the one to bring that up originally, but it still stands with my final statement on the subject). My point remains simple. You cannot call something a budget gaming ANYTHING, if it fails at playing even one game. With that logic, any CPU or GPU is a budget gaming component because they are capable of playing flash games on a web browser. For PC, and even consoles, the gaming term is very clear. It's either all or nothing. No middle ground, no gray area.

 

To put an end to this, I will reiterate the only point that matters. Intel does not advertise Pentiums as a budget gaming SKU. Therefore, they are not going to add a budget gaming iGPU to them. Just because a consumer wants to redefine a market segment, does not mean it will happen. Just look at the kids that demand 6 core SKU's on the non-enthusiast platform. As hard as they try, it won't matter if Intel themselves disagrees.

This is why i added you as a friend, a man who backs up his claims and stays steady when bombarded with BS

[PlayStation 2]

Hey bub... the G2120 couldn't be overclocked, and it wasn't as high profile as the G3258 because it was a locked chip.

It couldn't. But it was still a great budget choice back in 2012 and 2013. My point still stands that it was a good budget chip back then and any dual core isn't now.

[Sakkura]

following your logic:

 

you're in a blizzard, freezing to death. You piss your pants and feel warm. Not much later you freeze to death.

 

Did pissing your pants change anything?

 

NO. you still die from the cold.

 

 

Aka did the G3258 change anything?

 

NO, pentiums are still shit for gaming.

 

You're moving the goalposts. You're talking about the final outcome there, rather than the state at a given point during a process that has no definite end point.

 

It couldn't. But it was still a great budget choice back in 2012 and 2013. My point still stands that it was a good budget chip back then and any dual core isn't now.

 

It wasn't much better than a G3258 is today. Multithreading and CPU load in games has increased between 2012/13 and 2016, but not by leaps and bounds; and the G3258 does have significantly more performance, both single- and multithreaded.

[PlayStation 2]

You're moving the goalposts. You're talking about the final outcome there, rather than the state at a given point during a process that has no definite end point.

 

 

It wasn't much better than a G3258 is today. Multithreading and CPU load in games has increased between 2012/13 and 2016, but not by leaps and bounds; and the G3258 does have significantly more performance, both single- and multithreaded.

Clock for clock, Ivy Bridge and Haswell aren't that different. Of course the G3258 has the lead when it's OC'd.

[Prysin]

You're moving the goalposts. You're talking about the final outcome there, rather than the state at a given point during a process that has no definite end point.

 

 

It wasn't much better than a G3258 is today. Multithreading and CPU load in games has increased between 2012/13 and 2016, but not by leaps and bounds; and the G3258 does have significantly more performance, both single- and multithreaded.

perhaps, but following your logic my analogy still holds true.

 

The G3258 changed nothing. It was an abnormality in time. Yes it is still produced although it much lower quantities, even though the anniversary has long since passed.

So why is that? Simply because it sells well. However seeing as Haswell boards already has moved towards legacy status (Haswell ITX boards are almost gone everywhere due to Skylake coming out), we can conclude that the G3258 will soon be gone too.

 

It will have changed nothing.

 

So what did it do?

It sparked a interest with benchmarkers and budget gamers. Why? because it was Intel, it was cheap and it would easily reach 4GHz or above with little effort.

 

It has the exact same type of appeal that FX has.

It is not like the "normal" stuff. But it is cheap and overclocks easily. So easily anyone can do it.

 

Having owned a FX product, i can tell you. There is nothing more satisfactory then increase your multiplier to 22 (FX bclck is 200MHz) and see the CPU crank up to 4.4GHz and be stable at that speed... Do you know HOW fun that is. 8 cores, all running effortlessly at 4.4Ghz, when the stock is 3.5Ghz...

I can imagine the G3258 being something of the same. Just crank it up. Run it as fast as you can, and in the end if you fry it, well... whatever! its not THAT expensive.. can just get a new one and have another go.

 

 

It still does not change the fact that more and more games are too demanding for the G3258. Either by simply not running on the CPU, the CPU not being able to produce decent minimums, or the CPU not being able to hold decent averages even. This all happens.

The issue with the G3258, is that it is THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT A MODERN PC IS MEANT TO BE ABLE TO DO. A modern PC is meant to be able to surf the web, watch videos, listen to music while playing games.

The G3258 cannot do this. If you run a YT video in the background of a game, it will lag and stutter massively. Even when i simulated an pentium with my i7, it still struggles despite now having loads of L3 cache to help it.

 

Ironically, i own a A10 7870k (slightly OCd 860k)... you know what? Despite being an atrocious CPU, even when i had my Sapphire HD 7950 in there, it was still capable of running spotify + a skype call alongside Guildwars 2 (a DX9 based MMO)....

sure, may not sound demanding, and it isnt that hard of a load to put on a CPU, but try do that without 4 threads/cores... only an i3 can do that, and even an i3 will stutter at times, because skype is a resource hog.

 

Quad cores/threads really are the minimum these days. There really are no point getting anything less. Because it simply cannot serve as a good daily driver.

Benchmarks done by reviewers are consistently done on clean installations, with only games running and no other background tasks. Most recorded footage is done via capture-cards that is sitting in or connected to a secondary system. meaning every "professional" benchmark with the G3258 shows it performing amazingly.

Then you go to youtube and the numbers doesnt match up.

Why is that?

because the people who record on youtube, more often then not, record to their own device, or they have background programs running, their workloads are closer to what me and you would see.

[MageTank]

Your source doesn't show that many Pentiums, so you're arguing against yourself there. Besides, it's not about the number of models that exist at a given point, or have existed in the past.

 

It's funny that you accuse ME of writing a wall of text when you're throwing out huge walls of text repeatedly.

 

You claimed I had said the Pentium G3258 redefined the market. I never said that. Changing something is not the same as redefining it.

 

No, for something to change the market does not require that the change lasts. You're making an absurd claim, that all change must be permanent to qualify as change. Change can be temporary. Something can change in one direction, then later change back. That doesn't mean nothing changed. This is really basic stuff you're being silly about.

 

I generalized all Pentiums? What kind of nonsense is this? I specifically singled it out as distinct from the other Pentiums!

 

And your logic that the GT 730 is not a gaming card is immediately invalidated when Nvidia markets it based on its gaming performance.

 

Random youtube videos prove nothing except that you're grasping at straws. Your ludicrous assertion that "in summary: I am right" is further evidence of that. Someone who's right doesn't have to make that kind of childish claim.

I accidentally clicked a sort feature in that previous PCpartpicker list, that was my bad. Still, 168 pentium models exist. My point was that there are more pentiums out there in this world other than the G3258. My exact wording was evident of my intentions. If you want to do the count like i did, here is the page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_microprocessors

 

Also, i never "accused" you of writing a wall of text. I called it exactly what it is. I also called my post a wall of text too, if you would bother to actually read the things i write instead of skimming through them and ignoring 80% of the information. Calling your wall of text a "wall of text" is not a derogatory statement. 

 

Also, you are correct. Changing something does not equal redefining it. However, when you claim a CPU changed the intended market segment for all CPU's in its nomenclature, then yes, redefined is the proper word for such a thing, would you not agree? After all, you yourself said it changed what people thought about Pentiums, and you refer to it as the "poster child of Pentiums". 

 

Your generalization of all Pentiums began when you said "All pentiums are budget gaming CPU's, especially the G3258". The first half of that statement is called generalization. You generalized all pentiums as budget gaming CPU's, which is where our current argument lies. I argue against such a title, you argue for it.

 

 

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt-730

 

GeForce GT 730

Speed up your PC multimedia experience. Upgrade to the new NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 730 dedicated graphics card and get super-fast web browsing, plus incredible photo and video editing. The GT 730 also delivers 3X faster gaming performance than integrated graphics while delivering rock-solid reliability and stability with GeForce Experience™.

I would like you to pay attention to the word "Also". Meaning "in addition to". Notice how Multimedia, Web Browsing, Photo and Video editing come first in this list. the "3x faster gaming performance than integrated graphics" takes the back seat on this advertisement. Notice how they only compare it to integrated graphics too, and not a standalone gaming card. It's not marketed as a gaming card, or a budget gaming card. It's marketed as a multimedia/office card that can also game better than integrated GPU's (not anymore). Just like the Pentium line-up is a multimedia/office CPU that can also game better than older single core CPU's. Neither the GT series nor the Pentium lineup are considered budget-gaming lineups, not even by their own manufacturers. Face it friend. Your opinion of them does not make it fact. I've sufficiently backed up each claim i've made with sources. From the manufacturers themselves.

 

As for your final statement, my random youtube videos prove exactly what i said happened to me, and others that used the G3258. It's not grasping at straws, it's validating my own claims. I mentioned several other games that were unplayable on the G3258. I can name a few more if you'd like, but they are not AAA (and some are technically beta, so the lag i experienced cannot be exactly blamed on the Pentium just yet). It's why i refrained from mentioning them the entire time. 

 

There are many people other than myself on this forum that own G3258's. Ask any of them how they feel about the CPU. I bet you their sentiments are exactly the same as mine. "It's a great CPU for the money, but it's no gaming CPU". We can keep doing this until the end of time. I will not yield on this one, because I know first hand. You only have a benchmark from a single third party source. A dated one at that. Take my advice, and go get you a Pentium. If you were in the states, i'd gladly send you mine just to end this, but shipping to Denmark would cost more than what the Pentium is worth. Go get you one, get a board of your choosing, throw the fastest ram that you can throw at it. Then try the games i tested. In fact, try any game and then try to have TS or Skype up in the background (Something MMO/MOBA players do) and see if you can handle the stuttering. Something tells me you are going to ignore this part anyways, but hey, If you won't take my word for it, the only viable solution is for you to test it yourself, right? 

[Sakkura]

perhaps, but following your logic my analogy still holds true.

 

The G3258 changed nothing. It was an abnormality in time. Yes it is still produced although it much lower quantities, even though the anniversary has long since passed.

So why is that? Simply because it sells well. However seeing as Haswell boards already has moved towards legacy status (Haswell ITX boards are almost gone everywhere due to Skylake coming out), we can conclude that the G3258 will soon be gone too.

 

It will have changed nothing.

 

Again, it will have changed nothing... if you measure the state before it arrived and well after it's gone. But it will have changed things in between those points in time.

 

You're right about the CPU having some limitations in general use.

 

I accidentally clicked a sort feature in that previous PCpartpicker list, that was my bad. Still, 168 pentium models exist. My point was that there are more pentiums out there in this world other than the G3258. My exact wording was evident of my intentions. If you want to do the count like i did, here is the page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_microprocessors

 

Also, i never "accused" you of writing a wall of text. I called it exactly what it is. I also called my post a wall of text too, if you would bother to actually read the things i write instead of skimming through them and ignoring 80% of the information. Calling your wall of text a "wall of text" is not a derogatory statement. 

 

Also, you are correct. Changing something does not equal redefining it. However, when you claim a CPU changed the intended market segment for all CPU's in its nomenclature, then yes, redefined is the proper word for such a thing, would you not agree? After all, you yourself said it changed what people thought about Pentiums, and you refer to it as the "poster child of Pentiums". 

 

Your generalization of all Pentiums began when you said "All pentiums are budget gaming CPU's, especially the G3258". The first half of that statement is called generalization. You generalized all pentiums as budget gaming CPU's, which is where our current argument lies. I argue against such a title, you argue for it.

 

 

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt-730

I would like you to pay attention to the word "Also". Meaning "in addition to". Notice how Multimedia, Web Browsing, Photo and Video editing come first in this list. the "3x faster gaming performance than integrated graphics" takes the back seat on this advertisement. Notice how they only compare it to integrated graphics too, and not a standalone gaming card. It's not marketed as a gaming card, or a budget gaming card. It's marketed as a multimedia/office card that can also game better than integrated GPU's (not anymore). Just like the Pentium line-up is a multimedia/office CPU that can also game better than older single core CPU's. Neither the GT series nor the Pentium lineup are considered budget-gaming lineups, not even by their own manufacturers. Face it friend. Your opinion of them does not make it fact. I've sufficiently backed up each claim i've made with sources. From the manufacturers themselves.

 

As for your final statement, my random youtube videos prove exactly what i said happened to me, and others that used the G3258. It's not grasping at straws, it's validating my own claims. I mentioned several other games that were unplayable on the G3258. I can name a few more if you'd like, but they are not AAA (and some are technically beta, so the lag i experienced cannot be exactly blamed on the Pentium just yet). It's why i refrained from mentioning them the entire time. 

 

There are many people other than myself on this forum that own G3258's. Ask any of them how they feel about the CPU. I bet you their sentiments are exactly the same as mine. "It's a great CPU for the money, but it's no gaming CPU". We can keep doing this until the end of time. I will not yield on this one, because I know first hand. You only have a benchmark from a single third party source. A dated one at that. Take my advice, and go get you a Pentium. If you were in the states, i'd gladly send you mine just to end this, but shipping to Denmark would cost more than what the Pentium is worth. Go get you one, get a board of your choosing, throw the fastest ram that you can throw at it. Then try the games i tested. In fact, try any game and then try to have TS or Skype up in the background (Something MMO/MOBA players do) and see if you can handle the stuttering. Something tells me you are going to ignore this part anyways, but hey, If you won't take my word for it, the only viable solution is for you to test it yourself, right? 

 

Again, it's not about the number of models that exist or have ever existed. It's about market share.

 

I'd say wall of text is a term with negative connotations, but whatever, that's not worth arguing about (heck, you could say none of this is worth arguing about).

 

I did generalize Pentiums, after you had already done so. The difference is my generalization was correct; and I did specifically single out the G3258 as distinct from the crowd of Pentiums.

 

You haven't sufficiently backed up your points, especially when your sources frequently disagree with the points you're trying to make.

 

You've mentioned a few games that in your opinion don't run (well) on the Pentium G3258. You can mention several others. Even if I concede all of those, that's still only, what, a dozen or two? There are a lot more games that run (well) on the G3258. A heck of a lot more.

[Livebythegame]

damn this is really bad news for AMD, I hope they have some solid plans .

[MageTank]

Again, it will have changed nothing... if you measure the state before it arrived and well after it's gone. But it will have changed things in between those points in time.

 

You're right about the CPU having some limitations in general use.

 

 

Again, it's not about the number of models that exist or have ever existed. It's about market share.

 

I'd say wall of text is a term with negative connotations, but whatever, that's not worth arguing about (heck, you could say none of this is worth arguing about).

 

I did generalize Pentiums, after you had already done so. The difference is my generalization was correct; and I did specifically single out the G3258 as distinct from the crowd of Pentiums.

 

You haven't sufficiently backed up your points, especially when your sources frequently disagree with the points you're trying to make.

 

You've mentioned a few games that in your opinion don't run (well) on the Pentium G3258. You can mention several others. Even if I concede all of those, that's still only, what, a dozen or two? There are a lot more games that run (well) on the G3258. A heck of a lot more.

If we are talking entire market share of all CPU's being currently sold, then the Pentium G3258 is still not a big player. Your original source on that statement was just Amazon. Amazon is not the only retailer. Couple that with the fact that the G3258 is not included in many (if any) OEM machines, meaning they are not being sold to OEM manufacturers in bulk, also impacting their market share.

 

I generalized pentiums in the context that they are "not exactly budget gaming CPU's". Which they are not. Again, it depends on how you want to define budget gaming, but if a CPU cannot play a game, it is not a gaming CPU at all, regardless of its budget. If your point is that "It can play MMO's and MOBA's, which are more popular" then the same logic can be applied to plenty of older single core CPU's, and even laptops. I got a dual core celeron laptop to run ESO with a 2.1ghz dual core CPU, and its intel HD graphics after a ton of ini edits and driver hackery. It was only 30fps (15-20fps in populated towns or raids) but for a PVE MMO player, its enough to be playable. You also keep relying on the fact that it can play "most games" but the context of our entire argument has been based around the fact that including a stronger iGPU on a dual core Pentium is bad idea for the future. We already see AAA titles abandoning dual core support, and console ports are not getting any better. The future will change your "most games" statement as more bad ports or more demanding games come out. With the lackluster improvements between generations of CPU's, i just don't see dual cores improving enough to make a difference at all. I also have no faith in the gaming industry as more titles are being rushed, and completed with DLC and patches, rather than have a smooth launch to start with. Speaking of patches, GTA 5 ran perfectly fine before the recent patches, but it was broken afterwards. With every WoW expansion, my brother complains more of stuttering. As MMO's improve and make changes to their engines, change API's, or add more features (maps, npc's, more ai logic, etc) then the dual core gaming experience will begin to deteriorate more. 

 

As far as backing up my points, I included a source to all of my statements, have I not? What specifically about my sources are insufficient? None of my sources have disagreed with my statements. Wikipedia had exactly 168 Pentiums listed, which is the information i presented in this thread. I said GTA 5 stuttered, and provided two videos in which the CPU stuttered, on both a GTX 770 and GTX 970. Would you like an AMD GPU + G3258 video to remove doubt that it's not an Nvidia problem? Would you rather read forum posts or steam posts regarding the G3258? i provided a source (and picture, along with a dissected quote) of my GT 730 claims, showing you exactly where it is marketed as a multimedia/office card. I have made no other claims outside of these that warranted a source, let alone one that I wouldn't be able to sufficiently back up. If you can provide an example of what you feel was insufficient, i assure you that I can provide more than just one source for each claim i make. 

 

Also, the games that do not run well are not just an opinion. Granted, what is "playable" and "unplayable" is subjective. anything above 30fps is playable to me, but anything below it is not. When my games dip below 30fps constantly for it to be an annoying stutter, then that becomes unplayable as well, even if i average 50-60fps. If you won't trust random youtube videos, would you trust ones that i make? I can show you my system settings, bios pictures, my windows processes, driver versions, and show you that even at 4.75ghz, a dual core CPU is not enough to prevent GTA 5 from stuttering. I can also show you ESO lagging in Wrothgar (newest DLC town) when it runs perfectly fine on my stock clocked 6600T. BF4 multiplayer is also easy to produce lag in, but that could also be my graphical settings (No idea if a GTX 770 can max out BF4 at 900p, but i run mostly ultra details). I'll gladly retest that too. I just don't know why you deem me an insufficient source when i own the CPU you are talking about. Even as i type this message to you, it's on my backup rig with the G3258 in it.

 

 

Until you can show me that you too have used the G3258, then your opinion on it just won't be enough. You can call it a budget gaming CPU based on antiquated benchmarks and reviews, but until you've actually felt the plight of using a dual core for an entire year in this modern era of PC gaming, you are just not going to understand. Clearly my words have no impact. It's why i keep telling you to experience it first hand. Oh, and again, I must reiterate. Intel does not advertise the Pentium as a budget gaming CPU. The G3258 was not advertised as one either. http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/pentium/pentium-celeron-desktop-brief.html

 

As you can see, they advertise it for "government and education use". It's also advertised for "Home and Office". This is the only source that i need to "sufficiently" prove my point. Pentiums are not a budget-gaming market. They were not made for this, and they are not sold for this. To say otherwise would just be an opinion, unless you can provide a source to that. 

[Sakkura]

If we are talking entire market share of all CPU's being currently sold, then the Pentium G3258 is still not a big player. Your original source on that statement was just Amazon. Amazon is not the only retailer. Couple that with the fact that the G3258 is not included in many (if any) OEM machines, meaning they are not being sold to OEM manufacturers in bulk, also impacting their market share.

 

-

 

Until you can show me that you too have used the G3258, then your opinion on it just won't be enough.

 

It's not the biggest player, but certainly FAR bigger than any other Pentium. 14th best selling CPU is pretty decent. Just ask AMD. Plus, I was comparing it to other Pentiums, not ALL other CPUs. I never said it changed the entire CPU market, made everyone stop buying Core i5s and i7s, or anything of the kind.

 

Personal experience is not relevant. It's not reliable information either way.

 

Anyway, since you're repeatedly making these exhausting walls of text based apparently on your subjective opinion instead of evidence, I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this discussion.

[MageTank]

It's not the biggest player, but certainly FAR bigger than any other Pentium. 14th best selling CPU is pretty decent. Just ask AMD. Plus, I was comparing it to other Pentiums, not ALL other CPUs. I never said it changed the entire CPU market, made everyone stop buying Core i5s and i7s, or anything of the kind.

 

Personal experience is not relevant. It's not reliable information either way.

 

Anyway, since you're repeatedly making these exhausting walls of text based apparently on your subjective opinion instead of evidence, I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this discussion.

Again, tell me where i failed to provide the sources to my claims. If you can show me where you asked for a source that i did not provide, i'll concede. I provided sources to every claim I have made thus far. "Personal experience is not relevant". The rest of the world disagrees with this statement. Personal experience is everything. Especially on the subject of consumers and CPU's. 

 

To summarize where we are currently at:

 

I said "Pentiums are a not exactly budget gamer CPU market", you said they are. I provided sources where not only is the CPU incapable of playing every game, but they are not marketed as a budget gaming CPU even by Intel themselves. By that information alone, my original point is correct. 

 

Your defense is that "It can play a majority of games". With that logic, so can my old single core CPU's. After all, if we are talking a majority of ALL games, that includes weak indie games, old MMO's that run on all hardware configurations, and even flash games/DOS games. With your logic, every single CPU, regardless of their cost, is a gaming CPU. 

 

My counter to this claim, is that for a piece of hardware to be called a gaming piece of hardware, it has to be capable of playing any game. If it fails to do so, it cannot be called a gaming CPU, even if you throw the word budget in it. You countered with an analogy, asking if older gaming hardware can no longer be called gaming hardware if it becomes incapable of playing modern games. To answer this, it depends on two factors.

 

#1. What was the product marketed as? Was the item itself marketed as gaming hardware? With CPU's, most older quad cores are still capable of playing AAA titles.

#2. How old is it? Older single/dual core CPU's that were marketed as gaming over a decade ago no longer qualify, but they are no longer sold on a retail market either. Once a product is no longer sold, then it's original intended purpose no longer matters in present context. Time is always relevant. What was fast before can be slow now. and vice versa. 

 

Now we are here. Each disagreeing due to our entirely different definitions of "budget gaming". Again, i implore you to test this for yourself. I am willing to bet you change your view on Pentiums once you actually game with one. 

[Sakkura]

Again, tell me where i failed to provide the sources to my claims. If you can show me where you asked for a source that i did not provide, i'll concede. I provided sources to every claim I have made thus far. "Personal experience is not relevant". The rest of the world disagrees with this statement. Personal experience is everything. Especially on the subject of consumers and CPU's.

 

No, you didn't. And personal experience is worthless when trying to prove a point, even more so on the internet.

[MageTank]

No, you didn't. And personal experience is worthless when trying to prove a point, even more so on the internet.

I just asked you twice in a row to show me ONE post where i did not provide a source. Go ahead and do it already, stop biding for time.

[Prysin]

No, you didn't. And personal experience is worthless when trying to prove a point, even more so on the internet.

good to know.

 

in that case. according to you.

Every reccomendation done by a reviewer is bullshit. Because a LOT of it IS based on personal experience.

[Coaxialgamer]

I'm tempted to buy amd stocks , just to see what happens.

[Sakkura]

I just asked you twice in a row to show me ONE post where i did not provide a source. Go ahead and do it already, stop biding for time.

 

108, 120, 123, 125, 139, 141. 143 - your source disagrees with your claim. 148 - unreliable sources. 162 - your source undermines your claim...

[MageTank]

108, 120, 123, 125, 139, 141. 143 - your source disagrees with your claim. 148 - unreliable sources. 162 - your source undermines your claim...

You did not ask me for a source when you quoted my posts in 108, 120, 123, 125, 139, and the source you demanded in 141 was provided in the next post, and again in 162. The Nvidia source in 162 does not undermine my claim at all either. I even spelled it out for you. They market as multimedia/office, and use the word "in addition to" when talking about the 3x gaming performance of INTEGRATED graphics. In addition to, coming AFTER the main intended marketing segment. How hard is that to comprehend? 

 

I just noticed you went through every post i made in this thread that did not have a hyperlink, and just used them. Even though i specifically said: 

 

 

Again, tell me where i failed to provide the sources to my claims. If you can show me where you asked for a source that i did not provide, i'll concede. I provided sources to every claim I have made thus far. "Personal experience is not relevant". The rest of the world disagrees with this statement. Personal experience is everything. Especially on the subject of consumers and CPU's. 

None of those posts you mentioned of mine, had anything in it that you demanded a source for. Every single time you asked me for a source, i gave it to you. You want sources for my personal experiences? You just said earlier that they mean nothing to you. Even though every benchmark website is nothing but a collection of graphs showing what they experienced personally during testing.

 

148 is unreliable because they are random people on the internet experiencing the exact same problem that everyone with a dual core is experiencing? Once again, you have never used a G3258, so you are talking about something you know nothing about. Go buy one and use it already. Stop dancing around my posts pretending you still have a point to prove.

 

You should go google the word "Context" and study up on it. You just might be able to comprehend what I have been trying to tell you. Once you study the word, read the following statement.

 

Intel does not advertise/market the Pentium series as a budget gaming CPU. Therefore, they are not budget-gaming CPU's.

[Sakkura]

You did not ask me for a source when you quoted my posts in 108, 120, 123, 125, 139, and the source you demanded in 141 was provided in the next post, and again in 162. The Nvidia source in 162 does not undermine my claim at all either. I even spelled it out for you. They market as multimedia/office, and use the word "in addition to" when talking about the 3x gaming performance of INTEGRATED graphics. In addition to, coming AFTER the main intended marketing segment. How hard is that to comprehend?

 

You changed your question, so I changed the answer to suit it. Don't whine. And again, your sources don't back up your statements.

[MageTank]

You changed your question, so I changed the answer to suit it. Don't whine. And again, your sources don't back up your statements.

What question did i change? In my post i mentioned my previous endeavors to make you point out where i did not provide a source upon being asked for one. Hence the whole "I asked you twice in a row" bit. The context was still within my last post, but you have yet to google the word, have you? 

 

 

There you go. Now lets get to the bottom of your tactics. "Your sources are bad, but i refuse to tell you which ones, and why they are bad!". That's pretty much how you are acting. Let's turn the tables, shall we? 

 

Show me a source where Intel themselves call the G3258 a gaming CPU. This should be fun. 

[Sakkura]

I just asked you twice in a row to show me ONE post where i did not provide a source. Go ahead and do it already, stop biding for time.

 

 

What question did i change? In my post i mentioned my previous endeavors to make you point out where i did not provide a source upon being asked for one.

 

There you go.

 

In any case, I already explained the issues with the sources you did provide.

[MageTank]

There you go.

 

In any case, I already explained the issues with the sources you did provide.

What an anticlimactic ending to your tirade of nonsense. Here i was thinking you had something to prove with all of this. You backed yourself into a corner, could not find a way out, so you ignored my words, and cherry picked one post (even though i specifically said to pick posts where you asked for a source, and i failed to provide it). Every post in that list that you picked, involved my personal experience. The source in those posts, was me. You confuse the definition of "source" and "evidence". You want to nullify my source, then i nullify yours. Your source is too old, and is not indicative of the latest state of GTA 5, in which it is unplayable on the G3258 regardless of clock speeds. 

 

There you have it ladies and gentlemen. MageTank has proven what the world already knew. The Pentium lineup is not a budget-gaming market. 

[Sakkura]

What an anticlimactic ending to your tirade of nonsense. Here i was thinking you had something to prove with all of this. You backed yourself into a corner, could not find a way out, so you ignored my words, and cherry picked one post (even though i specifically said to pick posts where you asked for a source, and i failed to provide it). Every post in that list that you picked, involved my personal experience. The source in those posts, was me. You confuse the definition of "source" and "evidence". You want to nullify my source, then i nullify yours. Your source is too old, and is not indicative of the latest state of GTA 5, in which it is unplayable on the G3258 regardless of clock speeds. 

 

There you have it ladies and gentlemen. MageTank has proven what the world already knew. The Pentium lineup is not a budget-gaming market. 

 

So what you're saying is you've run out of arguments and are resorting to ad hominem.

 

Also amusing to see you trying to pass off personal experience as hard evidence, whereas my actual hard evidence is dismissed out of hand because it doesn't fit your views.

[vanished]

I always thought the "Pentium K" in all its various iterations was just sort of a "for fun" release from Intel to satisfy people with nostalgia for the old Pentium name and who love a cheap CPU they can play around with and overclock like crazy.  Whatever it runs, it runs