Sexisim and reform among gamers.

[Megan]

 

Yes, it is quite ignorant. But I say it for a reason.

But with all the kerfuffle over women in gaming you're very, very likely to hear about it if something happens (and is taken to the public).

But I'm fairly confident there is very little of it.

 

It also depends what you define as sexism. Because for me it's strictly "discrimination against a sex".

Making Quiet "sexually appealing" in MGSV isn't sexism etc etc.

 

No I agree sexualisation of a character is not sexism, it applies to males in other media too (see the movie Magic Mike for example)

 

But when you're sexually derogatory or degrading a human being based on their gender (whether self assigned or otherwise) that is sexism.

 

I.e. telling a woman she should just make babies and stay in the kitchen is sexism or a male should be the breadwinner and 6ft+ is also sexism.

[Gregrs]

Here's what I don't understand about society; it's a game, it's meant to be enjoyed, why not enjoy it? Why start poking holes at something without even trying it? It's a game, and just because something happens in that game doesn't mean that's how the world works.

 

It's like jokes. If someone tells an offensive joke that's funny, why do people take it so seriously? It's a joke, jokes are meant to be funny.

 

 

Regardless, I don't understand why people have to pick at every little thing. "Oh, this game has this naked women in this sex scene. THIS GAME IS DEGRADING WOMEN!"

I just don't understand...

[lkarej]

No I agree sexualisation of a character is not sexism, it applies to males in other media too (see the movie Magic Mike for example)

 

But when you're sexually derogatory or degrading a human being based on their gender (whether self assigned or otherwise) that is sexism.

 

I.e. telling a woman she should just make babies and stay in the kitchen is sexism or a male should be the breadwinner and 6ft+ is also sexism.

Well everyone should be in the kitchen. That's where the food is. NGL my PC is basically in the kitchen. (maybe I'll move it to my room soon).

But yeah for the actual sexism in the industry I'd probably say at this point it's more targeting males (I.E make a sexually appealing character in a game and you get blasted for "sexism").

If targeting people at all.

I think it's a large stereotype that women are discriminated against/not wanted in the video game industry.

At this point in time I don't think there's much actual discrimination among devs but more focused on censoring their creations by claiming it's sexist.

A good example of this was the Mika (spelling?) buttslap thing that was in the streetfighter V beta which mysteriously disapeared after a bunch of people go pissed about it. (IDK the specifics really, just the basic run down of what happened)

Bottom line for me is, I don't care what sex you are, if you make good games and don't censor because the mob gets mad at you who gives a flying fuck.

[Mudgee1994]

Bottom line for me is, I don't care what sex you are, if you make good games and don't censor because the mob gets mad at you who gives a flying fuck.

I agree, it shouldn't matter. Unfortunately if enough people get in an uproar that said game might not actually do too well in sales and cause the company to go down. 

[lkarej]

I agree, it shouldn't matter. Unfortunately if enough people get in an uproar that said game might not actually do too well in sales and cause the company to go down. 

 

yeah like DOAX3 or w/e isn't coming to the west in the foreseeable future because of an uproar about it's titty physics or something by idiots who think it's misogynistic or some shit.

[Megan]

Well everyone should be in the kitchen. That's where the food is. NGL my PC is basically in the kitchen. (maybe I'll move it to my room soon).

But yeah for the actual sexism in the industry I'd probably say at this point it's more targeting males (I.E make a sexually appealing character in a game and you get blasted for "sexism").

If targeting people at all.

I think it's a large stereotype that women are discriminated against/not wanted in the video game industry.

At this point in time I don't think there's much actual discrimination among devs but more focused on censoring their creations by claiming it's sexist.

A good example of this was the Mika (spelling?) buttslap thing that was in the streetfighter V beta which mysteriously disapeared after a bunch of people go pissed about it. (IDK the specifics really, just the basic run down of what happened)

Bottom line for me is, I don't care what sex you are, if you make good games and don't censor because the mob gets mad at you who gives a flying fuck.

 

As I'm not a huge gamer I can't quote on characters game models.

 

That being said - you're right in regards to there's little to no desire for women to NOT be in the industry however it's the early socialisation I.e. when you're at school and you're a girl who says she's interested in tech etc you get essentially shit on by your peers for it...that's from personal experience. What we need is a less judgemental young society (which is kinda hard but getting there with progress) because we're not as strong with our resolve during our early years as we're still figuring ourselves out.

[Techicolors]

Here's what I don't understand about society; it's a game, it's meant to be enjoyed, why not enjoy it? Why start poking holes at something without even trying it? It's a game, and just because something happens in that game doesn't mean that's how the world works.

 

It's like jokes. If someone tells an offensive joke that's funny, why do people take it so seriously? It's a joke, jokes are meant to be funny.

 

 

Regardless, I don't understand why people have to pick at every little thing. "Oh, this game has this naked women in this sex scene. THIS GAME IS DEGRADING WOMEN!"

I just don't understand...

 

people tend to pick at a lot of things. 

 

I edited more there I know what you meant. 

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Quiet

I'm still caught up on the name though. Still haven't played the game yet, had no idea

 

there's a... fair reason why she's dressed like that. but i'm sure you've glanced at the reason in the link you posted

 

as for another scene... yeah it's a given 

[Memories4K]

Believe me it's there. 

It's not like to the level of anime, but it's there. 

The fake outrage is there too, but I think it drowns where it does exist. 

I mean, I'm not outraged by it. Things target a certain audience. Like otakus in japan. As a viewer, it's insulting to me to some extent. I avoid a lot of anime. I don't hate its existence, it's some people's thing I guess. 

But it's there for sure.  And same with games. 

Anime's pretty much the same as video games.

Not really sexist against a specific sex.

 

 

Yes, it is quite ignorant. But I say it for a reason.

But with all the kerfuffle over women in gaming you're very, very likely to hear about it if something happens (and is taken to the public).

But I'm fairly confident there is very little of it.

 

It also depends what you define as sexism. Because for me it's strictly "discrimination against a sex".

Making Quiet "sexually appealing" in MGSV isn't sexism etc etc.

Sex sells.

Not sure why people always point to the developers as it's not them who make the countless nude mods for countless games...

Not what we're talking about guys.

We're talking the consumer base.

Let's not be neckbeards about this.

[Link8451]

The sexism in twitch is real I watch this female mmo player who has a hearing disorder who speaks Spanish and she's a good player why would you say girls shouldn't play games there are pro gamer girls in the world. like on Xbox I rarely see girls because us males are being sexist then on steam I see a lot more and I don't think the sexist on steam is that bad as on Xbox

[lkarej]

As I'm not a huge gamer I can't quote on characters game models.

 

That being said - you're right in regards to there's little to no desire for women to NOT be in the industry however it's the early socialisation I.e. when you're at school and you're a girl who says she's interested in tech etc you get essentially shit on by your peers for it...that's from personal experience. What we need is a less judgemental young society (which is kinda hard but getting there with progress) because we're not as strong with our resolve during our early years as we're still figuring ourselves out.

 

A couple of my female friends are into videogames but most of them are massive introverts anyways and don't talk about it with others. As in before I actually got to know them I would've have never known any of them were into videogames at all.

 

 

Not what we're talking about guys.

We're talking the consumer base.

Let's not be neckbeards about this.

 

I was talking about devs.

 

If you wanna talk about consumers it's almost just "mlady" and fedora tipping as far as the eye can see.

[Mudgee1994]

As I'm not a huge gamer I can't quote on characters game models.

 

That being said - you're right in regards to there's little to no desire for women to NOT be in the industry however it's the early socialisation I.e. when you're at school and you're a girl who says she's interested in tech etc you get essentially shit on by your peers for it...that's from personal experience. What we need is a less judgemental young society (which is kinda hard but getting there with progress) because we're not as strong with our resolve during our early years as we're still figuring ourselves out.

My gf went through that when she was in school and I just never understood why people acted that way. We've speculated that most guys feel threatened and don't know how to act where as it should be like making a new friend and having a common interest.

I mean having a LAN with a bunch of friends is much more fun than exluding half of them because they're "gamer girls". The whole point of gaming (for me at least) is to bring people together to form friendships (and potentially relationships for some) and come together for the greater cause of killing a Raid boss or capturing strategic points.

[Syntaxvgm]

people tend to pick at a lot of things. 

 

 

there's a... fair reason why she's dressed like that. but i'm sure you've glanced at the reason in the link you posted

 

as for another scene... yeah it's a given 

I'm advocating for those who haven't played the game and have 0 context. It's outrage matchbox material 

[Megan]

My gf went through that when she was in school and I just never understood why people acted that way. We've speculated that most guys feel threatened and don't know how to act where as it should be like making a new friend and having a common interest.

I mean having a LAN with a bunch of friends is much more fun than exluding half of them because they're "gamer girls". The whole point of gaming (for me at least) is to bring people together to form friendships (and potentially relationships for some) and come together for the greater cause of killing a Raid boss or capturing strategic points.

 

I do think it is to do with intimidation and confusion, by some people women are placed on a pedestal that we're some how different to men, when in reality we're not, we just wanna be treated like a person not an object, there will always be feminist extremists (so this is who you should hate when you hate feminism, not actual feminism) and there will always be misogynists, the main point is to focus on being gender equal. 

 

We do live in a male dominated world, some will disagree with me and say men get shat on just as much as women, but it shouldn't be an argument of who has it worse, it should be advocating equality across the spectrum, focus on the issues rather than infighting about who has it worse because otherwise a stalemate is met and no progress can happen.

 

Harassment is very real and the same harassment applies in game

 

Watch this video for an example, you may ask "well how was she harassed?"

 

When was the last time you as a male walked down a street and had guys talk to you like that? The same thing applies to women in games, some don't leave you alone when they discover you're a girl and the attention can be nice because it makes you feel wanted but there's a fine line between getting attention and getting  harassed, see some people get offended when they're accused of being harassed because it's probably not their intention to cause fear or panic but the main thing is to just treat a person whether they're male or female like a human being. 

 

From personal experience when I didn't cater to a guys attention or pander to his ego he became very abusive and almost threatening towards me and turned people against me in a game, even said that I was lying about being a girl and other things unless I showed my breasts or done him a sexual fan sign pic, granted he is a vast minority but that lead me to not wanting to play the particular game in question with other people. (RuneScape, which I'm an avid fan of and still play albeit alone)

[Adreyu]

I have seen this tired conversation again, and again, and again and what I have come to is: some people are just not very good people and other people tend to generalize a lot. Somewhere in the mix it gets injected in that there is a huge problem and we need some sort of big movement, but the real culprit here in my opinion is just some people hearing a few others be a certain way and then just assuming everyone of a particular group is that way. I think the best thing you can do is try to lead by example.

Don't get me wrong. There definitely has been cases of extreme sexism in the past, but its just not so cut and dry any more. If you start to get into the stuff about men being sexist to woman, then you have to look at the women who are equally terrible to men (E.G. the #wastehistime nonsense) and then I think you might just end up coming to the conclusion I have.

Some people are just shitty.

[AlTech]

You don't have to relate to them or communicate with them in a special manner, that's the thing, as ironic as it sounds you're being "sexist" by trying to treat them differently, literally talk to them how you would a guy, you don't have to be different with them if they're your friend, women who get offended by swearing etc - it's not because they're women, it's just because they don't like swearing, there are some men that don't like swearing and so you don't talk to them or interact with them...the same principal applies.

I don't mean to be sexist. I'm a lot more mature than others who are my age.

 

Well the thing is, the girls in my country and  in my high school. They're special, they're different.

​They're either rich slutty, girls who are pretty and have money or poor girls who aren't slutty, aren't as pretty (but most girls aren't like this).

 

Where I live the Adults have created a social stigma and associate gaming with bad things. Such as terrible grades, staying in their room all day long. Girls where I live, don't care about technology or gaming much (also makes it hard to for me to talk to them since I don't have anything in common with them).

 

 

Some girls, I can easily talk to but the aforementioned slutty type I don't know how to talk to them. FYI - it's not anybody's fault i'm like this but I have a mental disability of sorts. It makes me better at certain things than others but makes me worse at certain things than others.

 

I'm worse at socializing than most people. It doesn't help that I swear quite a bit (mainly when I'm angry or annoyed).

 

I was never popular until somewhat recently and I've considered somewhat popular. Loads of people recognize me by sight and talk to me when they're in between doing something or at lunch.

[Admiral Naismith]

Definitely see it more in consoles. Not sure why. I think it's more of a subculture for consoles (and as people said above, largely the Xbox) to be generally assholes.

 

The sexism thing is entirely because of how shit the game industry as become recently. It's behaving more like television than a game industry these days... I feel it's because EA, Ubisoft, etc. are corps and like all corps do whatever they feel they need to do for profit. If you know anything about television, you know their casting is very much political, racist, and sexist. Same with mainstream games these days. This sexism however works both ways. I really have a hard time thinking of any recent game featuring a 'damsel in distress' narrative to be honest. Racism I feel is a bigger issue, but I attribute that to most developers being light in color and thus most characters are light in color. It's not really 'racist' it's just humans being humans and subconsciously making characters more like them. When you combine that with cooperate bullshit you get a lot more bullshit.

 

Post was late at night so if I sound like I'm talking bullshit that's why.

[Megan]

I don't mean to be sexist. I'm a lot more mature than others who are my age.

 

Well the thing is, the girls in my country and  in my high school. They're special, they're different.

​They're either rich slutty, girls who are pretty and have money or poor girls who aren't slutty, aren't as pretty (but most girls aren't like this).

 

Where I live the Adults have created a social stigma and associate gaming with bad things. Such as terrible grades, staying in their room all day long. Girls where I live, don't care about technology or gaming much (also makes it hard to for me to talk to them since I don't have anything in common with them).

 

 

Some girls, I can easily talk to but the aforementioned slutty type I don't know how to talk to them. FYI - it's not anybody's fault i'm like this but I have a mental disability of sorts. It makes me better at certain things than others but makes me worse at certain things than others.

 

I'm worse at socializing than most people. It doesn't help that I swear quite a bit (mainly when I'm angry or annoyed).

 

I was never popular until somewhat recently and I've considered somewhat popular. Loads of people recognize me by sight and talk to me when they're in between doing something or at lunch.

 

That's understandable, just some food for thought do you need something in common to make conversation with them? I'm assuming you live in Europe based on the Time of Day you're posting and your social connotations, assuming it's a slavic country too? (Here's to being totally wrong)

[Bsmith]

sexism? well go fuck of.

 

male, female, whaterver just enjoy the damn game.

[EChondo]

The developers should be able to do whatever they want to do.

 

If a game has all white male characters then that's what the developer chose to do. Whining at them and threatening them just to add females or other races is pretty stupid to me. No one cares what gender or race you put in your video games, it's all the same shit to me at least. If the game has a good story and is fun, that's all that matters.

 

If I make a game then I'm making the game how I want to and I don't add X to the game then that doesn't make me Y.

 

Girls and guys can play whatever they choose. Adding a female to a FPS game isn't going to make more women play that game(at least I wouldn't hope so, that's just stupid).

[AlTech]

That's understandable, just some food for thought do you need something in common to make conversation with them? I'm assuming you live in Europe based on the Time of Day you're posting and your social connotations, assuming it's a slavic country too? (Here's to being totally wrong)

 

Oh come on. (Lol ) I put my location on LTT. Just look right next to my username. I'm an American who lives in Asia. And for me it's around 5:30 pm right now. The difference between "rich" people and "poor" people is massive where I live. I'm somewhere in the middle.

 

I don't know how to make conversion with people much. Especially those slutty girls.

 

 

The sexism in twitch is real I watch this female mmo player who has a hearing disorder who speaks Spanish and she's a good player why would you say girls shouldn't play games there are pro gamer girls in the world. like on Xbox I rarely see girls because us males are being sexist then on steam I see a lot more and I don't think the sexist on steam is that bad as on Xbox

 

Damn fucking right. if a girls wants to play a goddamn video game than she has the right to. Anybody who thinks otherwise is fucked up.

 

 

The developers should be able to do whatever they want to do.

 

If a game has all white male characters then that's what the developer chose to do. Whining at them and threatening them just to add females or other races is pretty stupid to me. No one cares what gender or race you put in your video games, it's all the same shit to me at least. If the game has a good story and is fun, that's all that matters.

 

If I make a game then I'm making the game how I want to and I don't add X to the game then that doesn't make me Y.

 

Girls and guys can play whatever they choose. Adding a female to a FPS game isn't going to make more women play that game(at least I wouldn't hope so, that's just stupid).

 

Well if I was a game developer and I wanted to include a female character I wouldn't make her look like some super model slut. I would make her look like a regular girl. By doing that, the developer would be acknowledging  their appreciation for what many females look like. i'm not trying to be offensive.  I'm saying it how it  is. Women in public don't look like what magazines would show.

 

Keep it real.

[EChondo]

Well if I was a game developer and I wanted to include a female character I wouldn't maker her look like some super model slut. I would make her look like a regular girl. By doing that, the developer would be acknowledging  their appreciation for what many females look like. i'm trying to be offensive.  I'm saying it how it  is. Women in public don't look like what magazines would show.

And that's what I'm trying to get at. You can make whatever game you want with whatever characters you want, but that should apply to anyone and everyone. You want women in your games to look like regular everyday women? Cool! But don't go and complain about another developer making slutty women in their game. Developers should be able to do whatever they want without outside crowds forcing changes because someone's feelings are getting hurt.

[LokiFire]

I prefer women in video games... Would rather talk to a female than a male sometimes as i can have different conversations.

[Mudgee1994]

Definitely see it more in consoles. Not sure why. I think it's more of a subculture for consoles (and as people said above, largely the Xbox) to be generally assholes.

.

I noticed that too. It might have to do with console audiences being a bit younger as they cannot always afford to buy a PC or have their parents afford one. Obviously not always the case as rude people can exist everywhere. Just my experience especially for Xbox 12yo COD babies.

[Mudgee1994]

Might be a little off topic but does anyone remember the whole female protagonist thing with assassins creed unity and ubisofts response? I thought it was fairly reasonable that due to them having to basically start from scratch with animations they wouldn't be able to do it with unity due to time constraints.

http://gamerant.com/ubisoft-excuses-for-no-females-in-assassins-creed-unity/

I mean they've made the most culturally diverse games and yet they still got slammed for this.

[xgn]

DISCLAIMER: I'm a male.

( I know that this is probably an extremely loud minority) think that women shouldn't or can't play video games or be game devs or anything to do with games.

Yep you are sexist. also try putting some dots in that text its hard to read.