Should weed be legal? [Discussion]

[DXMember]

That's one slippery slope you got there. But legit, every drug should be legal to possess and use, but illegal to sell.

yeah, let's grow up a whole generation of retads that smoke weed, meth and crack-cocaine during launch breaks at School, or better yet cancel School and make them live on the streets like the real OG in ghetto

fkn bunch of degenrates

[You_are_a_cunt]

I'm 50/50 on the subject.

If it gets legalized it should be heavily regulated, but not to the point where it's either too expensive or too hard to get (for the right reasons). Medical marijuana I'm fine with it. 14 year-olds blazing up? Not so much.

[Omon_Ra]

Bear in mind that Kobathor is th voice of the US right wing on this forum...

 

Did not know this...haven't been around in a little while.

 

The thing is, it's the "folks wanting to smoke a joint" that keep trying to get attention on the matter. Right now it's illegal in a lot of countries and nobody would even be thinking about it if stoners didn't keep bringing it up. It's a fish that's already been fried, and if potheads stopped making a fuss about it maybe the government wouldn't be wasting time thinking about it. As for food supply, again, the fact that there's something worse doesn't mean the other thing is good.

 

So African-American's should have 'stopped making a fuss' about Civil Rights? Women should have never pushed for the right to vote? The war on drugs is, to borrow Michelle Alexander's book title, The New Jim Crow; marijuana prohibition is the biggest and first step in maintaining African-American men as second class citizens. While marijuana usage rates are about the same for whites and blacks, blacks are disproportionally charged for simple possesion and other marijuana related crimes. Without marijuana and the numbers that it produces for quotas and budgets, there would not be enough 'drug users' to justify the massive expenditures by the government, federal, state or local.

 

 

Drugs aren't food. Sure, you can do drugs in moderation, it still hurts you. That's why I won't smoke, and I won't drink often. Things that are already legal (alcohol, cigarettes) would be SUPER hard to ban without lots of backlash, but if something's already illegal we don't need it to be legal.

 

The thing is every 'illegal' drug WAS legal at one point or another. I'm sure you know Coca-Cola originally had cocaine in it, heroin was a common pain killer.

 

yeah, let's grow up a whole generation of retads that smoke weed, meth and crack-cocaine during launch breaks at School, or better yet cancel School and make them live on the streets like the real OG in ghetto

fkn bunch of degenrates

 

The thing with this arguement that @Kobathor have been beating on is that it shows you don't have much hope for the free will or independent thought of the general public. It's not like people aren't smoking weed now, and people are doing just fine. If people want to smoke, there's really not much stopping them. And those that would become degerates, probably would become degerates anyways. The fact that you, @Kobathor and many others just assume everyone is going to be junkies if it's all legalized, doesn't speak much for how you feel about your fellow countrymen.

 

I'm 50/50 on the subject.

If it gets legalized it should be heavily regulated, but not to the point where it's either too expensive or too hard to get (for the right reasons). Medical marijuana I'm fine with it. 14 year-olds blazing up? Not so much.

 

14 year olds are ALREADY blazing up. Look at the chart I posted several pages back. I'm just as concerned with teens and kids smoking weed as I am with them drinking alcohol. Anyone under 18 should be prohibited from marijuana, just like tobacco (and alcohol at 21, which again, I think should be dropped to 18). Once you're an adult, do what you want. But a developing brain doesn't need any other chemicals pumping through it. That goes for ADD/ADHD meds, antidepressants, etc, as well. If you have a legalized, regulated market, it's going to be a lot harder for teens to get marijuana than it is now where any corner dealer could sell to whoever they want.

 

I think I've posted enough in this thread, no amount of evidence, logic or reasoning will change some peoples' minds; which I'm 100% fine with. This is America, you do what you want. I just came in to try and clear up some misunderstandings and factual errors. Hopefully some of yall that are on the fence will do some research and see that ending the prohibition on marijuana is more than just 'letting people have their joints.'

[Sauron]

So African-American's should have 'stopped making a fuss' about Civil Rights? Women should have never pushed for the right to vote? The war on drugs is, to borrow Michelle Alexander's book title, The New Jim Crow; marijuana prohibition is the biggest and first step in maintaining African-American men as second class citizens. While marijuana usage rates are about the same for whites and blacks, blacks are disproportionally charged for simple possesion and other marijuana related crimes. Without marijuana and the numbers that it produces for quotas and budgets, there would not be enough 'drug users' to justify the massive expenditures by the government, federal, state or local.

 

What? Are you seriously comparing civil rights to drugs being legal? Are you kidding me? Do you really think being able to give in to a pointless whim is as important as voting or being regarded equally in front of the law?

 

As for black citizens being charged more for possession, that's a completely separate issue - that belongs to discrimination in the justice system and is unrelated to drug proibitionism. And here's a hint - if you don't want to get arrested don't break the damn law. Those who deliberately ignore the law to get a joint are exactly the people who shouldn't be allowed to get a hold of them, because they clearly have no sense of responsibility.

[Omon_Ra]

What? Are you seriously comparing civil rights to drugs being legal? Are you kidding me? Do you really think being able to give in to a pointless whim is as important as voting or being regarded equally in front of the law?

 

As for black citizens being charged more for possession, that's a completely separate issue - that belongs to discrimination in the justice system and is unrelated to drug proibitionism. And here's a hint - if you don't want to get arrested don't break the damn law. Those who deliberately ignore the law to get a joint are exactly the people who shouldn't be allowed to get a hold of them, because they clearly have no sense of responsibility.

 

Yes, I am comparing civil rights to the legalization of drugs. Whites are breaking the law JUST AS MUCH as blacks when it comes to marijuana, yet it's the blacks that are locked up.

 

 

How can you say prohibitionism has nothing to do with the justice system? It's the very justice system that writes, prosecutes and punishes based on these arbitrary laws. I'm not alone in this, the ACLU has a report on it https://www.aclu.org/report/war-marijuana-black-and-white?redirect=criminal-law-reform/war-marijuana-black-and-white . There's this book which I mentioned earlier, http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblindness/dp/1595586431?tag=duckduckgo-d-20 . This NYT article is a decent overview of it all. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/us/marijuana-arrests-four-times-as-likely-for-blacks.html?_r=0

[Sauron]

Yes, I am comparing civil rights to the legalization of drugs. Whites are breaking the law JUST AS MUCH as blacks when it comes to marijuana, yet it's the blacks that are locked up.

 

 

How can you say prohibitionism has nothing to do with the justice system? It's the very justice system that writes, prosecutes and punishes based on these arbitrary laws. I'm not alone in this, the ACLU has a report on it https://www.aclu.org/report/war-marijuana-black-and-white?redirect=criminal-law-reform/war-marijuana-black-and-white . There's this book which I mentioned earlier, http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblindness/dp/1595586431?tag=duckduckgo-d-20 . This NYT article is a decent overview of it all. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/us/marijuana-arrests-four-times-as-likely-for-blacks.html?_r=0

 

It's completely irrelevant to the discussion who is being locked up and who isn't! This is a separate problem! I'm all for whites going to jail as much as blacks for the same crime, whichever the crime might be. Doesn't mean it not being a crime is the solution, and I'm baffled anyone could think that way. Would you argue that since blacks are getting harsher sentences for rape (just an example, I don't know if it's true) then rape should be legal? What sort of reasoning is that?

 

And you need to look up the definition of civil rights before you claim smoking pot should be amongst them.

[Omon_Ra]

It's completely irrelevant to the discussion who is being locked up and who isn't! This is a separate problem! I'm all for whites going to jail as much as blacks for the same crime, whichever the crime might be. Doesn't mean it not being a crime is the solution, and I'm baffled anyone could think that way. Would you argue that since blacks are getting harsher sentences for rape (just an example, I don't know if it's true) then rape should be legal? What sort of reasoning is that?

 

And you need to look up the definition of civil rights before you claim smoking pot should be amongst them.

 

You obviously didn't read any of the links I posted, which explain how the war on drugs, and most notably, the maintained prohibition of marijuana, has become a civil rights issue. If you want to discount the ACLU as a representative of civil rights, so be it.

​I'm not talking sentences, I'm talking about arrests. Blacks are being arrested at a rate 4 times that of whites, even though across the population about the same percentage smoke marijuana.

 

And now I'm really done with this. If you can't take the time to read the research and articles that back up my arguement, then there's no point continuing a converstation. And anyways, just over half of the American population is for the legalization of marijuana, those who want to maintain the prohibition are finally in the minority and it's only a matter of time until it falls.

 

​

[GodSpoon]

I honestly think alcohol is worse. If they let it go there should be no reason they don't let people have some molly

[Kobathor]

The thing is every 'illegal' drug WAS legal at one point or another. I'm sure you know Coca-Cola originally had cocaine in it, heroin was a common pain killer.

Yes, they had as much cocaine in Coca-Cola as they had sugar, I'm sure.. no. Have you even seen how much was in it? While I was bored, I watched a silly documentary on Coca-Cola, they showed a figure (in sugar) of how much cocaine plant was in Coke. There's almost as much as a pinch of salt, so you could drink tens of cokes and still not go crazy like a normal person on cocaine. Heroin was a common painkiller, until it wasn't. I wonder why they stopped using it.. People got addicted to heroin painkillers, had an OD and died.

 

Are you saying that everything we did a hundred years ago we should do today? I guess we should stop using anesthesia, they didn't use it on many people back in the day. We should also cut people's wrists to cure disease, that's a good plan.

[Kamina]

Yes.

 

When I was diagnosed with Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia in 2014, I heavily relied on Cannabis Oil to get through treatment. 

[Kamina]

I feel very strong about weed being illegal. It's just another stupid thing for people to get hooked on. And even though it's not really that bad, I just think it's unnecessary to have it be legal, when it can potentially cause some serious long term effects that are arguably just as bad as cigarettes'. 

 

People are going to abuse weed. It will cause massive issues with businesses since employers don't want anything to do with people that do smoke weed, and people will most likely start exploring more things to push the potential law's boundaries once again. Proving that it could potentially cause yet another problem.

 

You do know you don't have to smoke it. Cannabis comes in many forms. Shatter, Cannabis oil, tinctures, capsules, vape, cream, and even edibles. I never had to smoke the thing but I took cannabis oil for almost a year when I was diagnosed with cancer. I went through hell and did intensive chemotherapy about every weak with lumbar punctures. I was even on a feeding tube until I started using it more and getting healthy.

 

High concentrates of CBD doesn't impair your psych, only THC does and it's temporary. I get straight A's, so wherever you get your info from is propaganda.

[SeriouslyMikey]

Only issue I personally have with weed is terrible nightmares, though they were restful nights. As for everything else, it kept me calm, focused and happy. Though with the nightmares and waking up every morning after taking it in a cold sweat, there was a bad side to it. 

Would I do it again? Probably, but that doesn't mean I'm going to out actively hunting for it. It wasn't a necessity back then and I don't think it will be now. I smoked it for about two years and I never found myself addicted to it, I took it more out of want than need. 

 

As I said prior. Whether it should be legal or not, I really don't care. If I want to smoke it again in the future, I will find a way to do it, legal or not, just as I did, and many other people are still doing now. Heck, most of the people I know smoke weed, though it's huge in the snowboard industry and scene, so it's to no surprise. 

[MilkJugg24]

You do know you don't have to smokeThat's  it. Cannabis comes in many forms. Shatter, Cannabis oil, tinctures, capsules, vape, cream, and even edibles. I never had to smoke the thing but I took cannabis oil for almost a year when I was diagnosed with cancer. I went through hell and did intensive chemotherapy about every weak with lumbar punctures. I was even on a feeding tube until I started using it more and getting healthy.

 

High concentrates of CBD doesn't impair your psych, only THC does and it's temporary. I get straight A's, so wherever you get your info from is propaganda.

 

That's not what I was referring to. If you think I'm a person to fall for basic propaganda then you are truly a fool. Marijuana being used for medical purposes is completely fine because it's controlled and tested to actually help people such as in the video you linked and more.

 

I'm strictly talking about recreational use, there's really no need for it and will purely just cause more problems in the long run. People get what they want for now, they'll soon be asking for more.

[soup]

 People get what they want for now, they'll soon be asking for more.

 So?

What gives you the right to decide for me what I should and shouldn't be able to do (as long as it doesn't impact you).

[DXMember]

People should be free to put whatever they want into their own bodies, so yes.

you're being selfish

have you though about how it affects their family members?

can you imagine anything more thraumatic to a young child than having his single parent come home after a long hard 12hr shift to just smoke some crack and constantly being high infront of the child?

how does it impact your work performance?

how will it impact the comunity as a whole,

the financial aspect of the country due to people being unable to perform their daily tasks while under the influence of the substance

you're not living on this planet alone, the world is not your personal playground designed to statisfy your wants and drives you have a responsibility towards your family members, co-workers, state, nation and the species as a whole.

[MilkJugg24]

 So?

What gives you the right to decide for me what I should and shouldn't be able to do (as long as it doesn't impact you).

 

I was given the right to vote. And I'm just expressing my opinion.

 

You also have a say, notice that I haven't argued with anyone in this thread about their opinion because there is zero chance if any on this controversial of a topic to persuade someone to think highly of your opinion if they are of the opposing side.

 

How about you tone it down and be more productive than aggressive, clearly nothing I've said has had any impact on people's discussions to do what they want, because that's simply not for me to decide. I have my own problems and you have yours.

[soup]

How about you tone it down and be more productive than aggressive

 I didn't mean to appear aggresive, apologies if it came over that way.  Not aggresive just fedup with  this "I will tell you what to do as I know what is best for you" attitude.  This may not be the way you think but that is certainly the way I read your post.

 

By the way for the avoidance of doubt I don't smoke, don't drink (a TT Scotsman whatever next) and don't take cannabis in any form but that is my choice if someone else wants to get lung cancer beecome a raving alcoholic or a complete pothead then they can do so as long as it doesn't impact anyone else.

[MilkJugg24]

you're being selfish

have you though about how it affects their family members?

can you imagine anything more thraumatic to a young child than having his single parent come home after a long hard 12hr shift to just smoke some weed and constantly being high infront of the child?

how does it impact your work performance?

how will it impact the comunity as a whole,

the financial aspect of the country due to people being unable to perform their daily tasks while under the influence of the substance

you're not living on this planet alone, the world is not your personal playground designed to statisfy your wants and drives you have a responsibility towards your family members, co-workers, state, nation and the species as a whole.

 

I think you're being a slightly excessive on the addiction. I think parents who smoke do it in private and in considerations when they're parents (IF they're responsible).

 

I know my grandparents never let me out in the garage when I was young because they didn't want me to see them smoking and think it was ok. Regardless, I just kind of stayed away from it on my own. I'm currently 20 and have never touched a cigarette or drinking because I have asthma and too many issues I'm already currently dealing with, and I don't need more.

 

It's definitely a potential issue that needs to be taken care of on a case by case basis and in the worst case scenario being that the child(ren) be placed in a foster care until their parents (if they even care) are under control again. This same thing can be said with drinking and any other illegal substance abuse though.

 

And for the workplace scenario that relies on the responsibility of the person. 

 

All in all, again. Too many potential problems so why make it legal.

[MilkJugg24]

 I didn't mean to appear aggresive, apologies if it came over that way.  Not aggresive just fedup with  this "I will tell you what to do as I know what is best for you" attitude.  This may not be the way you think but that is certainly the way I read your post.

 

By the way for the avoidance of doubt I don't smoke, don't drink (a TT Scotsman whatever next) and don't take cannabis in any form but that is my choice if someone else wants to get lung cancer beecome a raving alcoholic or a complete pothead then they can do so as long as it doesn't impact anyone else.

 

I agree, I just have a hint of fear and doubt when it comes to responsibility that people have these days. I can only be rational when it comes to what other people wish to do, but majority rule. The issue failed to pass here in Ohio to legalize recreational use almost 2:1. So it's going to be a long time (unless the supreme court decides) until it becomes even a viable chance at it becoming legal. (We have a lot of rich old people here who don't like what the youngsters do)

[Photonic]

As long as it is regulated responsibly sourced and people smoke it in the privacy of their homes I don't mind

[MilkJugg24]

As long as it i regulated responsibly spruces and people smoke it in the privacy of their homes I don't mind

 

I fear that people aren't responsible enough to keep it in their house and will be driving while under the influence. Or be in public places potentially disputing other people and causing problems.

[Volbet]

you're being selfish

have you though about how it affects their family members?

can you imagine anything more thraumatic to a young child than having his single parent come home after a long hard 12hr shift to just smoke some weed and constantly being high infront of the child?

how does it impact your work performance?

how will it impact the comunity as a whole,

the financial aspect of the country due to people being unable to perform their daily tasks while under the influence of the substance

you're not living on this planet alone, the world is not your personal playground designed to statisfy your wants and drives you have a responsibility towards your family members, co-workers, state, nation and the species as a whole.

I don't give Ayn Rand much credit, but one thing I do agree with her on: Selfishness is sometimes a virtue. 

Wether or not a person wants to smoke weed is up to that person. Society should not dictate what a person should and should not put into their bodies.

Your body, your choice. 

 

I can't (and won't) force anyone to feel a responsibility towards their family, co-workers and least their state and species. 

If a person wants to live as the biggest egomaniacal bastard this world has ever know, then that is that persons choice.  

 

But alas, this discussion is pretty void, since you haven't provided any data to support any of your scenarios.

As far as I can tell neither the Nederlands, Colorado, Washington, Alaska, Columbia, Uruguay or Spain has experienced any negative economic or social concequences linked to the consumption of cannabis.

I couldn't find any data saying that people who use weed recreationally are worse parents than non-weed users. 

[DXMember]

I don't give Ayn Rand much credit, but one thing I do agree with her on: Selfishness is sometimes a virtue. 

Wether or not a person wants to smoke weed is up to that person. Society should not dictate what a person should and should not put into their bodies.

Your body, your choice. 

 

I can't (and won't) force anyone to feel a responsibility towards their family, co-workers and least their state and species. 

If a person wants to live as the biggest egomaniacal bastard this world has ever know, then that is that persons choice.  

 

But alas, this discussion is pretty void, since you haven't provided any data to support any of your scenarios.

As far as I can tell neither the Nederlands, Colorado, Washington, Alaska, Columbia, Uruguay or Spain has experienced any negative economic or social concequences linked to the consumption of cannabis.

I couldn't find any data saying that people who use weed recreationally are worse parents than non-weed users. 

oooh... we're talking about cannabis?

my bad, thought it was crack-coaine...

 

wait, what's the difference? to hell with it your argument is perfectly valid, let's legalize crack-cocaine and crystal meth as well it's their choise if they want to dope they should be allowed to dope and there is no society to dictate what's right or wrong!

 

hell I won't go to work tomorrow and rob me some store for liquer, I'm a rebel \m/

[Volbet]

oooh... we're talking about cannabis?

my bad, thought it was crack-coaine...

 

wait, what's the difference? to hell with it your argument is perfectly valid, let's legalize crack-cocaine and crystal meth as well it's their choise if they want to dope they should be allowed to dope and there is no society to dictate what's right or wrong!

 

hell I won't go to work tomorrow and rob me some store for liquer, I'm a rebel \m/

Fine, let's legalize cocain in all its forms. I still don't care. People should be allowed to take whatever they want. 

It's not like the law is currently stopping them anyway. 

 

By making narcotics legal, you remove the market from the hands of criminals and into the hands of legal merchants. 

That way you could force the user into a system that wants to help them, which is quite the difference from what the system is now.

 

I do not advocate legalizing any drug to the extend that every one should be able to sell it. 

Hard drugs should be sold in specialized dispensaries where trained personal is able to help the user.

They can either sell the user their drug of choice or help the user with their drug problem. But the choice is left with the user. 

 

And you comparing taking drugs with robbing a liqour store is plain asinine.

Robbing a liqour store is taking value from a third-part, thereby directly involving them in your actions.

Drug use that directly affects a third-party is (and should stay) illegal. 

[DXMember]

That way you could force the user into a system that wants to help them

 a system that wants to help them?

are you sure we're talking about capitalizm here?