Thoughts on magic

[Clanscorpia]

Yeah.... That's not proof.

 

Also, I don't trust those "historical" writings. For one thing, many were written far after the fact, through second hand, third hand - or more - word of mouth. The Bible is a very good example of this - most of the documents were written multiple years (dozens, even hundreds) after the fact.

 

I don't believe we used to have magic, because there is no proof.

 

As I said, if Magic is real, then prove it. Thinking something and willing it to happen is BS. If you can actually think something and will it to happen, then hook yourself up to an EKG, brain scanners, etc, in a Laboratory, in front of a full panel of independent, peer reviewed, respected scientists (of the appropriately correct disciplines), who will monitor, document, and video tape your "magic".

The thing is, when people do these things the scientist classify it as something else, so why isn't  magick a category in science?

[dalekphalm]

The thing is, when people do these things the scientist classify it as something else, so why isn't  magick a category in science?

Give me an example. What else is science classifying as "Magic"? There is no such thing as magic, because science explains or can explain everything. Magic is simply an archaic word used to describe things that humans currently do not understand.

 

Does that mean that Nuclear Fission is magic, because 300 years ago we didn't understand it?

 

As I said, there may very well be things we currently do not understand - such as Telepathy - that could exist. If they do (or can, or will eventually) exist, then science will eventually understand that process - thus proving it is not magic.

 

Again, please provide more specifics.

 

I will reiterate. If magic is real, then prove it.

[ICantThinkOfAnyGoodName]

The thing is, when people do these things the scientist classify it as something else, so why isn't  magick a category in science?

Name an example of such a thing.

[Clanscorpia]

Sorry, can't find the links, and thanks for your feedback, wanted to see what other people though, I can't influence you unless you actually read up on psionics and take place in some discussion. I was skeptical at first and then felt the energy and I researched it. I recommend The Psionic Social Club and their IRC channel, I think it might even be interesting just to read what we discuss. But I can't prove it to you unless you prove it to yourself.

[dalekphalm]

Sorry, can't find the links, and thanks for your feedback, wanted to see what other people though, I can't influence you unless you actually read up on psionics and take place in some discussion. I was skeptical at first and then felt the energy and I researched it. I recommend The Psionic Social Club and their IRC channel, I think it might even be interesting just to read what we discuss. But I can't prove it to you unless you prove it to yourself.

That's... that's really not how it works.

 

You can prove it to me - if it's real. You might need the assistance of scientists, but if it's real, like you believe, then it can be measured. Maybe not with current technology, depending on how such a system might work. But if it's real, sooner or later, it can be measured, and quantified.

[Clanscorpia]

Trust me, everyone I know has spent hours trying. Just join PSC-annex (IRC the link is on the psionic social club website) and I know people who can explain it to you. I can't, but they can show you, make you feel its real. Trust me

 

That's... that's really not how it works.

 

You can prove it to me - if it's real. You might need the assistance of scientists, but if it's real, like you believe, then it can be measured. Maybe not with current technology, depending on how such a system might work. But if it's real, sooner or later, it can be measured, and quantified.

[ICantThinkOfAnyGoodName]

Trust me, everyone I know has spent hours trying. Just join PSC-annex (IRC the link is on the psionic social club website) and I know people who can explain it to you. I can't, but they can show you, make you feel its real. Trust me

Sounds like it's either placebo or you are trolling.

[dalekphalm]

Trust me, everyone I know has spent hours trying. Just join PSC-annex (IRC the link is on the psionic social club website) and I know people who can explain it to you. I can't, but they can show you, make you feel its real. Trust me

Trust and proof are generally mutually exclusive.

 

If I trust you that it's real (without proof), and there is someone that can make me "feel" that it's real, then how can I be sure I'm not just being manipulated, or feeling confirmation bias?

 

If those people think it's real, why not prove it to the world via the scientific method?

[techswede]

Nope. I do not believe in magic. There is just no scientific proof at all hinting at even the slightest possibility that magic might be a real thing.

 

Holding on to hope for the future though. Maybe scientists can bring us some kind of simulated telepathy or even some neat form of "technomancy"

[Clanscorpia]

Sounds like it's either placebo or you are trolling.

I'm deffenitly not trolling

[Clanscorpia]

Trust and proof are generally mutually exclusive.

If I trust you that it's real (without proof), and there is someone that can make me "feel" that it's real, then how can I be sure I'm not just being manipulated, or feeling confirmation bias?

If those people think it's real, why not prove it to the world via the scientific method?

It's a different kind of feeling. And the scientific method doesn't work unless people accept what people get as thoughts as the scientific method

[dalekphalm]

It's a different kind of feeling. And the scientific method doesn't work unless people accept what people get as thoughts as the scientific method

The scientific method always works - no exceptions. If there was an exception, then our entire understanding of science would be completely wrong. And then, of course, scientists would then rework the system to correct for whatever mistake was made.

 

Scientists spend their time trying to prove everything wrong. When you have a theory - such as gravity making things fall towards the centre of said gravity - they don't do experiments to see if their theory is correct - but rather, they perform experiments to try and prove their theory wrong.

 

If, for example, someone can read minds (or conversely, communicate telepathically with another), there are definite, provable tests that could be used to prove such a method, plus you could hook the person up to brain scanners to check brainwaves, and see any changes, etc.

 

A different kind of feeling is meaningless without more information. Without tests to prove that this feeling has any meaning or relevance beyond confirmation bias - eg: "I think I'm psychic, and I think I should feel something, therefore I do feel something" - whether said person actually feels differently cannot be confirmed without proper testing. It could be "all in their head", so to speak. Confirmation bias is a very real thing - and a major hindrance to scientific progress, as people who want something to be true are more likely to misinterpret evidence.

[totjup5]

This world belongs to no one!!!!! 

wow.....

[totjup5]

This world belongs to no one!!!!! 

stop it

[BuckGup]

Magic is magical. No really it is insane watching a magician and how fast their hands move. I watched a pro pick pocketer change shirts with the guy he was demonstrating on and I never saw it until he told us.

[rmac52]

The burden of proof is on the person claiming something exists.

ie: I don't have to prove bigfoot exists.

 

I have never seen any evidence that magic is real.  I am a scientist.  I accept facts and logic.  

If someone can show me solid evidence then I will reevaluate my position.

[Philosobyte]

So you're saying that people have exercised this "magick" to make you "feel the energy" or "feel it's real." 

 

I'd say that's not magic. That's psychology. 

[Sammael]

Speak the words child, and watch the power flow.

 

[KemoKa]

In terms of magic as being some mystical Harry Potter-style thing with spells and wizzerds and fagguts, 'arry, no. It's not really a thing. There are people who can employ very clever and quite brilliant illusions to make people think that they are doing something that would normally be considered impossible, like hiding flowers up you sleeve, but magic in the Hollywood sense is much more different and a lot more fantastical. It's pretty much nonsense made to stimulate the imagination. Though in film, that doesn't really help...

I do have a firm belief in spirituality, however. Anyone ever visited somewhere like a Buddhist sanctuary or something along those lines and done a meditation session or two? That's not magic, but to me, the spirit and how people seem to be able to manipulate and use it is a very fascinating subject indeed. Philosophically, I think the concept of mastery of oneself is something that people can benefit from immensely. But they get distracted by mundane things, like...

Magic.

[minibois]

thought this was aout the card game, left disappointed.

I dont believe in magic and other sort of wizardry.

 

I do believe in tricks based on the angle, distration of people and sleight of hand.

[DigitalHermit]

People say that when a man reaches 30 years of age without losing his virginity, he becomes a wizard...

[Albatross]

Why do you guys think its not real though?

 

If magic was real, life would be a lot more interesting. There would be dragons to slay or befriend, princess in castles, ogres in swamps and epic battles with crazy, power hungry kings or evil creatures. Floating islands, mystical forests, old men with ridiculously long beards, talking trees and sentient, giant birds.

 

Because none of that has happened or is real, magic couldn't possibly be.

[Philosobyte]

In terms of magic as being some mystical Harry Potter-style thing with spells and wizzerds and fagguts, 'arry, no. It's not really a thing. There are people who can employ very clever and quite brilliant illusions to make people think that they are doing something that would normally be considered impossible, like hiding flowers up you sleeve, but magic in the Hollywood sense is much more different and a lot more fantastical. It's pretty much nonsense made to stimulate the imagination. Though in film, that doesn't really help...

I do have a firm belief in spirituality, however. Anyone ever visited somewhere like a Buddhist sanctuary or something along those lines and done a meditation session or two? That's not magic, but to me, the spirit and how people seem to be able to manipulate and use it is a very fascinating subject indeed. Philosophically, I think the concept of mastery of oneself is something that people can benefit from immensely. But they get distracted by mundane things, like...

Magic.

Interesting. So you believe superphysical constructs exist?

 

I believe there is nothing superphysical. Some would say thoughts or concepts are immaterial and don't exist physically, but I believe that they do exist in physical form - they exist as certain combinations of chemical signals in our brains linking parts of your memory cells and your other processing cells.  These combinations of signals are constantly changing because you're focusing on an ever-so-slightly different aspect of it every moment. And they're different for everyone because not only are they associated with different memories, but even our definitions of them are slightly different. If no living thing existed, concepts and thoughts would not be in existence either since their existence depends on chemical interactions in the brains of living things. What we think to be "self-awareness" is just a trillion cells working together to process sensory data and to sustain a simulation of being a single unit. Your consciousness is like a running instance of a computer program, a virtualization. All emotions have evolutionary reasons for existing and are rooted in chemistry.

 

I like meditating, though.

[Serin]

If it can't be replicated, observed, explained through science and repeated it doesn't exist.

[Clanscorpia]

So you're saying that people have exercised this "magick" to make you "feel the energy" or "feel it's real." 

 

I'd say that's not magic. That's psychology. 

No, nobody's done anything close to me other than a scan where they literally described my life without knowing anything about me. You make the energy yourselves. Look up the definition of Psi

 

If it can't be replicated, observed, explained through science and repeated it doesn't exist.

But what if current science can explain it. We have discovered very small amounts of our universe and can't explain very much. Maybe magick is 'scientific' but we just haven't discovered how to replicate it.

 

Interesting. So you believe superphysical constructs exist?

 

I believe there is nothing superphysical. Some would say thoughts or concepts are immaterial and don't exist physically, but I believe that they do exist in physical form - they exist as certain combinations of chemical signals in our brains linking parts of your memory cells and your other processing cells.  These combinations of signals are constantly changing because you're focusing on an ever-so-slightly different aspect of it every moment. And they're different for everyone because not only are they associated with different memories, but even our definitions of them are slightly different. If no living thing existed, concepts and thoughts would not be in existence either since their existence depends on chemical interactions in the brains of living things. What we think to be "self-awareness" is just a trillion cells working together to process sensory data and to sustain a simulation of being a single unit. Your consciousness is like a running instance of a computer program, a virtualization. All emotions have evolutionary reasons for existing and are rooted in chemistry.

 

I like meditating, though.

The thing about energy working is you have to think outside your brain. Moving your presence which is my specialty, but PK, damn almost nobody can actually do it