why is 4k so expensive

[rashdanml]

Think about it this way. Each pixel on the screen is essentially a cluster of tiny RGB LEDs (let's assume LED screens for now, and not LCD). RGB to be able to generate any colour it needs. For a given sized screen, to achieve a certain resolution, you need a particular sized pixel or LED cluster. If you want to quadruple the number of pixels, you also need to cut the size of the cluster by 1/4. Try to make anything smaller, and it'll generally be more expensive initially. On the flipside, making a bigger LED cluster is less problematic to manufacture, but there's an increased material cost (need more material to make a bigger cluster).

 

There's almost always a balancing point between ease of manufacture and material cost.

 

As technology and manufacturing processes catch up, making smaller LED clusters become cheaper, therefore driving down the cost of making 4K displays. It's only a matter of time.

[Godlygamer23]

Think about it this way. Each pixel on the screen is essentially a cluster of tiny RGB LEDs (let's assume LED screens for now, and not LCD). RGB to be able to generate any colour it needs. For a given sized screen, to achieve a certain resolution, you need a particular sized pixel or LED cluster. If you want to quadruple the number of pixels, you also need to cut the size of the cluster by 1/4. Try to make anything smaller, and it'll generally be more expensive initially. On the flipside, making a bigger LED cluster is less problematic to manufacture, but there's an increased material cost (need more material to make a bigger cluster).

 

There's almost always a balancing point between ease of manufacture and material cost.

LED screens do not exist. There's LED LCD, but not LED.

[rashdanml]

LED screens do not exist. There's LED LCD, but not LED.

Pure LED TVs do exist, least as far as I recall. Dunno about monitors, haven't really looked around.

LED backlit LCD has essentially the same problem.

[Godlygamer23]

Pure LED TVs do exist.

Didn't find any yet.

[rashdanml]

Didn't find any yet.

Even so, the same logic of manufacturing/material cost can be applied to LED backlit screens. It was merely an example to illustrate.

[12860682321]

There are also the amount of processing power to do all of the processing of pixels, plus the trickle-down effect of technology which mean 4K will be cheaper.

[ManOfDisguise]

Why is it so expensive? Because it's pretty.

[Glenwing]

Manufacturers can make a 1080X1920 screen at 5" so why not a 4K monitor at 27". It makes no sense.

 

LCD manufacturing is not a perfect process; the rejection rate is something like 40-50%.  Higher pixel density is also more difficult.  We can make 4K 55" TVs because it is the exact same process as a 27" 1080p monitor (4 of those put together) and at that pixel density, it is a very mature process, so the production is scaled up very high.  We can also make 1080p phone screens because even though the panels have a lot of defects on them, you only need to produce LCD panels that have a 5" defect-free patch that you can cut out and use, so it isn't too hard to cut around the defects.  But finding a 20" defect-free patch from the same pixel density and same production process... your yields would be very low and the number of samples you would need to go through to find a panel with that large of a defect-free patch makes the production cost go up exponentially the larger you want your panel to be.

 

It is just a matter of scaling and improving the manufacturing processes for very high pixel densities... it is not as simple as "20 inch 4K is just as easy as 10 inch 1080p".

[kuddlesworth9419]

LCD manufacturing is not a perfect process; the rejection rate is something like 40-50%.  Higher pixel density is also more difficult.  We can make 4K 55" TVs because it is the exact same process as a 27" 1080p monitor (4 of those put together) and at that pixel density, it is a very mature process, so the production is scaled up very high.  We can also make 1080p phone screens because even though the panels have a lot of defects on them, you only need to produce LCD panels that have a 5" defect-free patch that you can cut out and use, so it isn't too hard to cut around the defects.  But finding a 20" defect-free patch from the same pixel density and same production process... your yields would be very low and the number of samples you would need to go through to find a panel with that large of a defect-free patch makes the production cost go up exponentially the larger you want your panel to be.

 

It is just a matter of scaling and improving the manufacturing processes for very high pixel densities... it is not as simple as "20 inch 4K is just as easy as 10 inch 1080p".

 

I see what you mean and I found it very interesting but I am talking about 30" 4K monitors that cost about £5,000. The panel size could be made by using the mobile phone 1080p panels to create a high resolution panel. I guess they don't though as the colours are much better on monitors then they are on phones. I would love to see a 4K 27" or 30" monitor for £1000, I would actually buy one. Until that happens 4K monitors will stay as a niche product until it does.

[Glenwing]

I see what you mean and I found it very interesting but I am talking about 30" 4K monitors that cost about £5,000. The panel size could be made by using the mobile phone 1080p panels to create a high resolution panel. I guess they don't though as the colours are much better on monitors then they are on phones. I would love to see a 4K 27" or 30" monitor for £1000, I would actually buy one. Until that happens 4K monitors will stay as a niche product until it does.

 

Well it's not as easy as gluing together a bunch of 5" 1080p phone screens  Like I said, if you want to produce one whole panel, it is exponentially more difficult the larger you want to make it.  Just because you can make a small screen doesn't mean producing a larger one with the same pixel density is just as easy.

[kuddlesworth9419]

Well it's not as easy as gluing together a bunch of 5" 1080p phone screens  Like I said, if you want to produce one whole panel, it is exponentially more difficult the larger you want to make it.  Just because you can make a small screen doesn't mean producing a larger one with the same pixel density is just as easy.

 

Yea but they have created 55" 4K screens so why not 27" and 30" models which are smaller. The Seiki 4K TV is cheap and good so why exactly aren't there cheap ones from Dell, Asus and any others.

[Glenwing]

Yea but they have created 55" 4K screens so why not 27" and 30" models which are smaller. The Seiki 4K TV is cheap and good so why exactly aren't there cheap ones from Dell, Asus and any others.

 

Pixel density plays a role; 55" 4K TV is the same as 27" 1080p monitor, and that manufacturing process is very mature, and production is scaled up very high.  Higher pixel densities will take longer to become viable for larger displays as the manufacturing processes become more developed.

[Goldilock]

OOh, I am so waiting 24" 4K monitor.

 

Miniscule pixels, here papa is coming

[Bluejay0]

OOh, I am so waiting 24" 4K monitor.

 

Miniscule pixels, here papa is coming

 

I WOULD SO BUY THAT

[Glenwing]

I WOULD SO BUY THAT

 

You didn't even ask the price

[pit5000]

it will get cheaper when the market gets flooded. When Apple upgrades their Thunderbolt Display to 5K, that might scare everybody else to more reasonable prices?

[ologiic]

Because the best of the best comes at a price. 

[kuddlesworth9419]

you are correct. It's the power they have to force consumers to pay a hefty price for 'hottest' stuff.

 

thats why SSD is so expensive. you really think they are much more expensive to make than a harddrive?

To be honest an SSD probably costs less than a HDD. HDD's are really delicate where SSD's are just chips soldered onto a PCB.

[Dravic]

To be honest an SSD probably costs less than a HDD. HDD's are really delicate where SSD's are just chips soldered onto a PCB.

 

Maybe.

 

I simply meant that it's not production costs that are driving prices in our today's industry.

[Glenwing]

To be honest an SSD probably costs less than a HDD. HDD's are really delicate where SSD's are just chips soldered onto a PCB.

 

And how much do you think the chips cost to produce?

[Bluejay0]

You didn't even ask the price

 

I DON'T CARE! I so want a high PPI for my eyes to enjoy AND small screens to make it easier for gaming. 

[TheSLSAMG]

R&D, technology, etc.

[kuddlesworth9419]

And how much do you think the chips cost to produce?

Probably quite a bit but the process to produce and assemble a HDD seems to be more complicated as all the components need to be aligned perfectly with no dust or any particles at all. Mistakes can easily be made with the assembly of a HDD rather on an SSD there can be dust and it won't effect performance unless it's in the PCB itself or the chip components. I could be wrong though and I probably am.

[notenoughtv]

To be honest an SSD probably costs less than a HDD. HDD's are really delicate where SSD's are just chips soldered onto a PCB.

How hard it is to assemble something has nothing to do with the cost of the parts

[Glenwing]

Probably quite a bit but the process to produce and assemble a HDD seems to be more complicated as all the components need to be aligned perfectly with no dust or any particles at all. Mistakes can easily be made with the assembly of a HDD rather on an SSD there can be dust and it won't effect performance unless it's in the PCB itself or the chip components. I could be wrong though and I probably am.

 

That is true but if you look at the range of prices you can see the distribution, of how much the assembly costs and how much the parts cost.  Hard drives have a rather high starting price actually; if you go below 1TB the price does not decrease much.  1TB WD Blue drive is $70, 500GB is $60, 320GB is also $60, 250GB is $55... so you have hit the point of diminishing manufacturing costs.  No matter what the capacity of the platters you use are, those are cheap, most of the cost is in the assembly there.

 

However SSDs can be found much cheaper than that (16GB SSDs for $30 or whatever) all the way up to far more expensive, it is far more dependent on capacity, because the cost of the chips is the defining factor in the price.  Soldering the chips is easy, as you said, but the more chips you put on, the more expensive it gets.