Low image quality on newer GPUs

[MEC-777]

Just started Dragon's Dogma today. As much as i've accpeted by now this problem and am enjoying gaming fully again... this really tears my heart apart everytime i start a new game anyway until i get used to it... especially if it's pronounced like in this one. Just look at the shadows and the swimming textures on the buildings...

*breathes calmly* *tries not to cry* *mans up* Ok, let's just keep thinking and testing... something will come up eventually... i just know it.

I know this is a port of a last gen game, so the artifacts are prolly more pronounced on this one than in others due to an old engine clashing with whatever is causing this LOS/Aliasing shit, still, that's now how it plays on other systems and other videos i saw online. And that's with 4k dsr as you can see at a certain point where i chage resolution.

P.S.: the game, graphical shit aside, is an instant classic and i reccomend it to any lover of action rpgs (it's offtopic, but bear with me, feels good to say something postive for a change in this thread of doom, gloom and despair).

 

Definitely something weird going on with the shadows there. I think it's related to how the game was ported over though. Have this game on Xbox 360, I could blow the dust off and fire it up to see if it has the same wonky shadows etc... 

 

I tried changing individual components before I built a whole new pc.  In this order: GPU, PSU, hard drive, mobo and CPU, ram.  No results. I individually changed out basically every component that I figured could possibly be causing this.  It seems like it has to be a software issue, which makes it harder to pinpoint.  I know how to build computers cause it's fairly uncomplicated, but I know a lot less about programming or how software actually works.

 

I believe it is software related and we already know what part of the problem is that is responsible for many of the symptoms people are complaining about; the lack of LOD bias from DX10 on and GTX 500 series GPUs on (not sure when AMD axed it). No amount of PC building or hardware swapping is going to fix or change this. 

[DKL]

Someone should try to build a new one from scrap with nothing in common and plug in a random 5 dollar keyboard and mouse and possibly another cheap monitor. Than see if it works properly. And start switching in components til it gets bugged. That would give a definite answer... but who has the money to throw right? Wish i had...

There's this youtube channel thing with these guys where they test things that are interesting to a lot of viewers and/or themselves. They get lots of sponsors too to keep themselves afloat so this could be an interesting thing that they could do. It would cause many who witness the bug but don't know of the youtubers to flock to their channel in hope of finding the answers they so desperately seek.

 

Of course, I'm probably just talking about something that will never happen with a youtuber that doesn't exist because youtubers don't get big enough to be able to test this sort of thing out... right? Right? LUKE, LINUS..... DELP!! D:

[MEC-777]

There's this youtube channel thing with these guys where they test things that are interesting to a lot of viewers and/or themselves. They get lots of sponsors too to keep themselves afloat so this could be an interesting thing that they could do. It would cause many who witness the bug but don't know of the youtubers to flock to their channel in hope of finding the answers they so desperately seek.

 

Of course, I'm probably just talking about something that will never happen with a youtuber that doesn't exist because youtubers don't get big enough to be able to test this sort of thing out... right? Right? LUKE, LINUS..... DELP!! D:

 

They've been tagged a few times in this thread, but someone said they won't get the notification(s). Maybe if a mod could direct their attention here?

 

@colonel_mortis...?

 

Personally, I don't think it's necessary. It's pretty clear, IMO, some of what we have seen is normal and or can be explained due to various factors (lack of LOD bias in modern drivers etc.). But the topic has attracted quite a following and lengthy discussions both here and on other forums. So maybe it's worth having the LMG guys dig a little deeper to maybe "set the record straight" and shed a light on what's happening (or not happening) here?... 

[DKL]

They've been tagged a few times in this thread, but someone said they won't get the notification(s). Maybe if a mod could direct their attention here?

 

@colonel_mortis...?

 

Personally, I don't think it's necessary. It's pretty clear, IMO, some of what we have seen is normal and or can be explained due to various factors (lack of LOD bias in modern drivers etc.). But the topic has attracted quite a following and lengthy discussions both here and on other forums. So maybe it's worth having the LMG guys dig a little deeper to maybe "set the record straight" and shed a light on what's happening (or not happening) here?... 

My thoughts exactly.

[vanished]

They've been tagged a few times in this thread, but someone said they won't get the notification(s). Maybe if a mod could direct their attention here?

 

Yup, I've heard from people who know better than I do that Linus doesn't have notifications turned on so tagging will do nothing.  He does apparently read the forums a lot though (much more than he posts) so you never know, he might be aware of this already.

[Demiqas]

Alright, my 9800gts arrived and I had some time to try stuff out. I downloaded the 296.18 beta drivers. I set my skyrim to 1440x900 resolution and enabled 8x transparancy anti aliasing. To my schock, anti aliasing actually appeared to work. What I noticed most importantly, is that pretty much all of that hideous white lining is gone. On my 750 ti, not even 4x SGSSAA at 1600x900 got rid of em, and now there aren't even any in the first place. 

 

Can't do much now as it's 12 pm here, but tommorow evening and especially thursday I'll have some time to do some recordings and some comparisons with my intel HD. It will be low in FPS though, but it should be enough to show the difference.

[vanished]

Alright, my 9800gts arrived and I had some time to try stuff out. I downloaded the 296.18 beta drivers. I set my skyrim to 1440x900 resolution and enabled 8x transparancy anti aliasing. To my schock, anti aliasing actually appeared to work. What I noticed most importantly, is that pretty much all of that hideous white lining is gone. On my 750 ti, not even 4x SGSSAA at 1600x900 got rid of em, and now there aren't even any in the first place. 

 

Can't do much now as it's 12 pm here, but tommorow evening and especially thursday I'll have some time to do some recordings and some comparisons with my intel HD. It will be low in FPS though, but it should be enough to show the difference.

It doesn't have to be a video.  Even just plain ol' images will do.  In fact, they may be better because they will be sharper and uncompressed, and easier to upload and edit

[Demiqas]

Arlight, I just tried some runescape (yes.. runescape. Was the easiest thing to try out quickly) and it looked BEAUTIFULLY smooth with only 4xaa at a very low resolution! I'm actually pretty happy now. 

 

Problem with images is that these white lines are often only visible in motion anyway, but I'll do some of those too nevertheless.

[Demiqas]

Alright, getting a little spammy here but I just turned on 4x supersampling on skyrim@1440x900. There was basically no more aliasing left, everything looked so glorious. I wish I could capture this as precisely as I can so you guys can see exactly what I'm seeing. It's so beautiful..

[vanished]

Alright, getting a little spammy here but I just turned on 4x supersampling on skyrim@1440x900. There was basically no more aliasing left, everything looked so glorious. I wish I could capture this as precisely as I can so you guys can see exactly what I'm seeing. It's so beautiful..

Can you post a screenshot of that then?  I can compare to max graphics and any AA I want on my 660

[Demiqas]

Can you post a screenshot of that then?  I can compare to max graphics and any AA I want on my 660

I can take a screenshot, but again, information you can get out of it is a bit limited =/

 

here you go:

 

 

This is with 4xsupersampling@1440x900

and it looks even smoother in game (don't know if it's the resolution or frap's .bmp). Still great in the screenshot nevertheless.

 

The difference of what my 750 ti looked like and what the 9800gt does is especially noticable when in motion though.

[vanished]

I can take a screenshot, but again, information you can get out of it is a bit limited =/

 

here you go:

 

 

 

This is with 4xsupersampling@1440x900

and it looks even smoother in game (don't know if it's the resolution or frap's .bmp). Still great in the screenshot nevertheless.

 

The difference of what my 750 ti looked like and what the 9800gt does is especially noticable when in motion though.

Wow, that's on really low settings.  Still, it shows how the edges of objects look.  I'll compare when I get a chance, thanks

[MarkFMB]

Follow up on yesterday's video. More issues popped up today. Weirdly enough yesterday i didn't have this and i didn't touch any setting. I'm perplexed.

[vanished]

Wow, that's on really low settings.  Still, it shows how the edges of objects look.  I'll compare when I get a chance, thanks

well apparently I can't take a screenshot but you'll have to take my word for it, on 8x AA with everything on max (no FXAA) it looks just as smooth

[Demiqas]

yep, that's what I meant, issue was never really visible in screenshots as it's mostly the motion aliasing. 

 

I just realized it would've meaned so much more if I had taken some videos of the horrendousness my 750 ti had turned skyrim into, but its already been a while since I got rid of the card.

[Sanugia]

Hey guys,

I am experiencing the same issues like everyone here. "Upgraded" from my AMD Radeon HD 8970 to NVIDIA GTX 980 and now this. It's really driving me nuts. This thing is so bad that it even effects the way how words or symbols are looking at my Desktop. But then someday I started to play Far Cry 4 and recognized this game looks REALLY awesome. I mean really. With DSR and Ultra Graphics the game has almost none of the issues I'm having at other games (the things plopping in issue is still there). It looks so good that I could cry everytime I'm playing it and cut off my eyes when I'm playing other games. How can one game look so much better than all the other games I'm playing? And I'm playing a lot of games though.

Here a litte video to show you (but the quality isn't that good thanks to youtube):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuhK3bKAAHY

 

And here a video from Dragon's Dogma that's driving me crazy:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW4ZjwHI9hc

 

The shadow flickering in this game is so strong even though I'm not moving.
And sorry for eventually bad english but I'm not native.

[MarkFMB]

Hey guys,

I am experiencing the same issues like everyone here. "Upgraded" from my AMD Radeon HD 8970 to NVIDIA GTX 980 and now this. It's really driving me nuts. This thing is so bad that it even effects the way how words or symbols are looking at my Desktop. But then someday I started to play Far Cry 4 and recognized this game looks REALLY awesome. I mean really. With DSR and Ultra Graphics the game has almost none of the issues I'm having at other games (the things plopping in issue is still there). It looks so good that I could cry everytime I'm playing it and cut off my eyes when I'm playing other games. How can one game look so much better than all the other games I'm playing? And I'm playing a lot of games though.

Here a litte video to show you (but the quality isn't that good thanks to youtube):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuhK3bKAAHY

 

And here a video from Dragon's Dogma that's driving me crazy:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW4ZjwHI9hc

 

The shadow flickering in this game is so strong even though I'm not moving.

And sorry for eventually bad english but I'm not native.

That's probably because Far Cry 4 has TXAA. Games using TXAA as their temporal antialiasing seem to be ALMOST immune to this problem. I noticed this in both Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 which look almost as good and normal as they should, and was very glad of that. I say almost cause it's still visible on very sharp edges like railings or fences and it still causes weird shadows and flickering on some far away surfaces, but other then that, it's almost eye candy.

Now, if what Demiqas says is true, that he reverted to older card and drivers on the same pc AND the issue went away, then this issue sounds more and more driver related. Can some newer cards sometimes be plagued by flawed drivers on some systems which will plague your machine til you downgrade to a card using another generation of drivers altogether? This is weird though... cause formatting didn't solve the problem and changing brands didn't either for most. If it was driver related that should have done the trick. Can these flawed drivers affect the firmware if not even the hardware?

Or maybe are just the newer cards incapable of implementing certain types of AA and, as we know, LOD clamping and  totally depend for those on in-game engine, which would explain why we see newer games almost perfect and older ones that we used to see perfect on older cards as messed up clusterfucks? This could also be... but wouldn't explain why people with this issue have it also on videos, movies, etc.etc., which, being those prerendered, would make sense only if this was some sort of electrical disturbance (which if what Demiqas says is true, can't be).

I'm at a loss. But i would direct more scrutiny to drivers here.

[vanished]

This thing is so bad that it even effects the way how words or symbols are looking at my Desktop. 

I really want to see a screenshot of this; if it is true, it would be the first confirmed case of anything like that so far.

[MEC-777]

If you're seeing anomalies on your desktop, it could very well be a problem with your monitor and/or cable. 

[Sanugia]

I really want to see a screenshot of this; if it is true, it would be the first confirmed case of anything like that so far.

 

Don't know if you can clearly see any difference but the first screenshot was made by a friend who doesn't have that problem and the second was made by me. (btw we're both using HDMI)

[vanished]

 

Don't know if you can clearly see any difference but the first screenshot was made by a friend who doesn't have that problem and the second was made by me. (btw we're both using HDMI)

-------------------------------------------------------

Those links seem to be broken.  The images are not loading.

[Sanugia]

Those links seem to be broken.  The images are not loading.

 

Oh that's bad. Don't know how I can share them to you otherwise, sorry.

[Sanugia]

If you're seeing anomalies on your desktop, it could very well be a problem with your monitor and/or cable. 

 

I don't think so. It all started to really screw up for me since the last driver update, until then everything was ok.

[vanished]

Oh that's bad. Don't know how I can share them to you otherwise, sorry.

You can attach them to your post.  Click "More Reply Options" and upload them.

[Sanugia]

You can attach them to your post.  Click "More Reply Options" and upload them.

 

Ah ok thank you. Hopefully you can see it this time. (And hopefully you'll see what i mean^^)