impedance Question

[Rukey_Lob]

This has probably been answered many times but i wanted to sign up and give the Linus Forums a shot seen as reddit can be toxic.

 

Can i run 150 impedance headphones such as Sennheiser Game Zero on a DAC such as the Zonar U7 that has a max of 150 impedance?  I'm new to the audio scene and i need to know the basics on this.

 

Thanks, Luke

[SSL]

Yes. Sound devices that say "up to X ohms" are marketing nonsense.

 

Case in point, my main headphone right now is only 50 ohms. Guess how hard it is to drive compared to my old, 250 ohm headphone.

[EposVox]

Yep! As said above, just ignore that stuff.

[EndlessOyster]

I personally wouldn't ignore something like that as a manufacture wouldn't say it if there isnt a reason for it.
If you have spare money to burn go for it and but it, but it probably wont change a huge amount unless you got the dreadful audio system from the motherboard which if its reasonably modern its probably fine.

[Megahurt]

Higher impedance than advertised could mean that the amp wouldn't be able to drive your headphones as loud as you might want it to, but it would not damage anything.

[SSL]

I personally wouldn't ignore something like that as a manufacture wouldn't say it if there isnt a reason for it.

If you have spare money to burn go for it and but it, but it probably wont change a huge amount unless you got the dreadful audio system from the motherboard which if its reasonably modern its probably fine.

 

Except it's meaningless. Again, The fiio E10 is advertised "up to 150 ohms". So will it drive my HE-560? How about the HE-6? They're under 150 ohms for sure!

[Rukey_Lob]

Okay so I should just ignore the 150 ohms on these headphones, good.  Thanks for the responses guys!

[spwath]

Just a follow up question @SSL, because i want to make sure I get it right when I explain it to people, what exactly is Impedance.

Is it basically the resistance the headphones have to the current, and then sensitivity determines how loud they will get?

[SSL]

Just a follow up question @SSL, because i want to make sure I get it right when I explain it to people, what exactly is Impedance.

Is it basically the resistance the headphones have to the current, and then sensitivity determines how loud they will get?

 

Basically, yes. Impedance is just the resistance of a circuit to alternating current, which is more complex than simple direct current resistance. Sensitivity is loudness per unit power per unit distance. For headphones, the distance component is implicitly ignored, since it will never change.

 

To know how loud a headphone will get, you need to know things about the amp - namely, the output power at the impedance of the headphone. From there, you can use sensitivity to determine the final intensity produced. There is no way to infer this value from either measurement alone - impedance and sensitivity go hand in hand.

[spwath]

Basically, yes. Impedance is just the resistance of a circuit to alternating current, which is more complex than simple direct current resistance. Sensitivity is loudness per unit power.

 

To know how loud a headphone will get, you need to know things about the amp - namely, the output power at the impedance of the headphone. From there, you can use sensitivity to determine the final intensity produced. There is no way to infer this value from either measurement alone - impedance and sensitivity go hand in hand.

Ok, that makes sense, just wanted to confirm i was correct before I go spouting missinformation.

 

It will be interesting when we get to this unit in physics.

[EndlessOyster]

Except it's meaningless. Again, The fiio E10 is advertised "up to 150 ohms". So will it drive my HE-560? How about the HE-6? They're under 150 ohms for sure!

Of course they will run the HE 6 there under 150 ohms so in the bandwidth of MAXIMUM 150 OHMS! The complaint I have isnt about something below 150ohms not running its the fact that after 150 ohms the amp obviously starts struggling so the manufacture said no point going over 150.

[SSL]

Of course they will run the HE 6 there under 150 ohms so in the bandwidth of MAXIMUM 150 OHMS! The complaint I have isnt about something below 150ohms not running its the fact that after 150 ohms the amp obviously starts struggling so the manufacture said no point going over 150.

 

Are you trolling again? So hard to tell. What does "obvisously [start] struggling" mean?

[LeeWonky]

Of course they will run the HE 6 there under 150 ohms so in the bandwidth of MAXIMUM 150 OHMS! The complaint I have isnt about something below 150ohms not running its the fact that after 150 ohms the amp obviously starts struggling so the manufacture said no point going over 150.

I couldn't hear jack shit when I used an E10K with the HE-6. I should know, I have an E10K and an SMSL SD793-II and just used the HE-6. Both couldn't drive it properly. I couldn't hear jack shit from 7-12 o'clock, and by the time I hit 1 o'clock I can hear something but its noticeably distorted as both their noisefloors are high enough anyways. And with my HD600, at 10 o'clock with the SD793-II, the volume is loud enough that its already hurting my ears... but no distortion... and that headphone has 300 ohms of IMPEDANCE! Same story with the AKG K240 Sextett (really, search up K240 Sextett incase you don't know) and it has 600 ohms of IMPEDANCE and at 12 o'clock on the SMSL SD793-II, it was at comfortable loudness for me with not that much noticeable distortion. Guess what? the E10K supports up to 150 ohms and the SD 793-II is like... uhm... I dunno. But based on experience, they are pretty much the same in terms of what impedance the E10K is advertised to support.

My Schiit Stack Uber 2 can drive the HE-6 at comfortable ranges, same story with the O2. Mind you, the HE-6 can somewhat be seen with large-ass speaker amps to power the damn thing because it is THAT hard to drive.

Short answer: Impedance isn't the determining factor on how hard a headphone is to drive.

[EndlessOyster]

Are you trolling again? So hard to tell. What does "obvisously [start] struggling" mean?

Personally I think you're trolling with your first post because you didnt know what the word maximum meant.

And on my other post it was late at night and my English had gone asleep. So Ill try again;

150ohms is the limit the manufacture recommends, this could be for many reasons, this doesn't mean the headphone cant run a higher impendance headphone but the amp may not be as affective. It defiantly doesnt mean it cant run lower impedance headphone

[spwath]

Personally I think you're trolling with your first post because you didnt know what the word maximum meant.

And on my other post it was late at night and my English had gone asleep. So Ill try again;

150ohms is the limit the manufacture recommends, this could be for many reasons, this doesn't mean the headphone cant run a higher impendance headphone but the amp may not be as affective. It defiantly doesnt mean it cant run lower impedance headphone

But impedance isnt the main factor in determining headphone volume.

 

So the "up to 150 ohms" thing is just stupid and should be ingnored.

[EndlessOyster]

But impedance isnt the main factor in determining headphone volume.

 

So the "up to 150 ohms" thing is just stupid and should be ingnored.

I understand that but impedance is the main factor on how hard the amp has to work.

For example if I have a dirt track drive way and I put a speed limit of 20 miles per hour, it doesn't mean I cant do 100mph down it, but after a while the dirt track gets damaged because of the excessive speed.

[spwath]

I understand that but impedance is the main factor on how hard the amp has to work.

For example if I have a dirt track drive way and I put a speed limit of 20 miles per hour, it doesn't mean I cant do 100mph down it, but after a while the dirt track gets damaged because of the excessive speed.

How hard the amp has to work?

Is that a thing?

Doesn't the only thing that determines how hard the amp works is the volume dial?

[EndlessOyster]

How hard the amp has to work?

Is that a thing?

Doesn't the only thing that determines how hard the amp works is the volume dial?

I guess so if you did put a high impedance headphone and not turn it up probably be fine, but the manufacturer doesnt know how hard your going to turn that gain up by so they say dont go above this amount of impedance or the amp will use to much power to make it work at full whack.

Its the reason why speaker amps have a display which says how much power they are using because you dont want to go into that red bard, which is also why most sound engineers dislike DJ's but thats off topic and not related.

[SSL]

I understand that but impedance is the main factor on how hard the amp has to work.

 

False!

 

150ohms is the limit the manufacture recommends, this could be for many reasons, this doesn't mean the headphone cant run a higher impendance headphone but the amp may not be as affective.

 

False!

 

It defiantly doesnt mean it cant run lower impedance headphone

 

False!

[LeeWonky]

I guess so if you did put a high impedance headphone and not turn it up probably be fine, but the manufacturer doesnt know how hard your going to turn that gain up by so they say dont go above this amount of impedance or the amp will use to much power to make it work at full whack.

Its the reason why speaker amps have a display which says how much power they are using because you dont want to go into that red bard, which is also why most sound engineers dislike DJ's but thats off topic and not related.

Explain to me why I'm able to run the HD600, which is a 300 ohm headphone, at near-deafening loudness, with an E10K? The volume knob is only at 10 o'clock and its already hurting my ears.

[EndlessOyster]

 

Do you mind giving me some sources to prove your points?

[EndlessOyster]

Explain to me why I'm able to run the HD600, which is a 300 ohm headphone, at near-deafening loudness, with an E10K? The volume knob is only at 10 o'clock and its already hurting my ears.

I'm presuming 10 oclock inst the maximum. If you turned the amp to the maximum you'll probably break the amp

[LeeWonky]

I'm presuming 10 oclock inst the maximum. If you turned the amp to the maximum you'll probably break the amp

10 o'clock is like level 3 or level 4 out of 10 levels of loudness, in which by 12 o'clock is when distortion has a tendency to kick in on ANY amp! So yeah, just stop trolling or being a numb-nut. You're better of at Head-fi with your attitude.

[EndlessOyster]

10 o'clock is like level 3 or level 4 out of 10 levels of loudness, in which by 12 o'clock is when distortion has a tendency to kick in on ANY amp! So yeah, just stop trolling or being a numb-nut. You're better of at Head-fi with your attitude.

Have you ever plugged in something which has a impedance that the manufacturer recommends? It will be able to get up to the top of the gain before distorting, I promise you that.

Also according to the manufacture they recommend to use something with 32 Ohms so the signal gets 2.5 amps. What you get with 600 ohms is actually 0.5 a amp your not amplifying your signal your reducing it.

On the reason why they say the maximum is 150 ohms is because that comes out with 1.1 amps so you only get slight improvement.

[LeeWonky]

Have you ever plugged in something which has a impedance that the manufacturer recommends? It will be able to get up to the top of the gain before distorting, I promise you that.

Also according to the manufacture they recommend to use something with 32 Ohms so the signal gets 2.5 amps. What you get with 600 ohms is actually 0.5 a amp your not amplifying your signal your reducing it.

On the reason why they say the maximum is 150 ohms is because that comes out with 1.1 amps so you only get slight improvement.

Do you even know what you're talking about? @SSL please confirm if this guy is trolling or an idiot.