Why is all official router firmware garbage?

[Ethnod]

I am getting pretty sick and tired of this forum jerking off over pfsense whoever there is a chance. In my opinion, pfsense is shit. There is a very, very niche market for it and trust me, 99.9% of the users on this forum do not fit that niche.

To me the whole "pfsense is awesome" reeks of "look at me I am so special and super cool, even though I have no idea what 90% of all the features in pfsense is, and the other 10% is available on good consumer routers". For the vast majority of people (yes that includes YOU), it is better to get a good consumer grade router.

 

Also, I am not really mad at you personally Ethnod. It's just that I see a huge amount of people who got very little knowledge about networking (not talking to you specifically) recommending and using pfsense and think "it got lots of features (that I don't understand) so it must be good!".

 

/end rant.

 

On a sidenote, it's totally OK to link to Razthew0rld here.

 

Your comment of its not directed at me does not change the fact that its simply the rudest post I have personally seen on this forum so far.

People like PFSense, get over it! Personally I have not used it but from what I have seen its good. Yes there are a lot of things on it that 99% of people wont need but there are a lot of good things about it.

 

You have an alternative? Instead of telling everyone how sick of pfsense you are, offer an alternative and explain why. Rants are just bitching unless they are companioned by some actual info and solutions to what you are "Ranting" about

[Whiskers]

Intel continuously does this. It's called a binning process. In essence all core i5's, core i7's and a lot of Xeons are exactly the same chip... The difference is that some silicon dies will be able to handle a specific clock frequency, while others can't. Or some have one broken core that can't run hyperthreading. The best and most stable chips are destined to be Xeons.

 

Indeed. But there are still some cases of artificial limitation. For example I am quite sure there was a certain model of Pentium CPU which was actually a Quad-Core chip but has two cores locked off. I have the funny feeling some people found a way of unlocking those cores, so if that's true then it was simply an artificial limitation.

[MG2R]

Your comment of its not directed at me does not change the fact that its simply the rudest post I have personally seen on this forum so far.

People like PFSense, get over it! Personally I have not used it but from what I have seen its good. Yes there are a lot of things on it that 99% of people wont need but there are a lot of good things about it.

 

You have an alternative? Instead of telling everyone how sick of pfsense you are, offer an alternative and explain why. Rants are just bitching unless they are companioned by some actual info and solutions to what you are "Ranting" about

He/she's just pissed it's a video made by Logan, I guess.

[Darren]

Why not DD-WRT ? Simple - integration cost, why validate every router model against something that can work or not and just use what works instead.

DD-WRT is not perfect in its own right, i find it a horrible experience using it on any router i installed it on (it lags, web interface crashes often etc...), its flexible yes features are good and it does what i says it does, but its not for everyone.

 

I've only ever used OpenWRT and I find it to be excellent. I'd definitely recommend it to ya

[rufee]

Never tried it, from what i gathered its modular as in install the feature you want, that's a good idea to save on memory, but i am very lazy so that's probably the reason ive never tried it

[mr moose]

Intel continuously does this. It's called a binning process. In essence all core i5's, core i7's and a lot of Xeons are exactly the same chip... The difference is that some silicon dies will be able to handle a specific clock frequency, while others can't. Or some have one broken core that can't run hyperthreading. The best and most stable chips are destined to be Xeons.

Isn't the CPU id and clock information part of the chip or is this added when they bin the chips?

 

EDIT: I should also add that with regard tot he OT, companies like D-link, netgear, Linksys, etc  don't become successful by spending more than they have to, you can be rest assured that what ever software solution each company has chosen is either the cheapest or most reliable to implement. They know their client base and they know what their clients need. If your not happy then you are probably not their target demographic and that is probably why you don't like what you have been using.

[MG2R]

Isn't the CPU id and clock information part of the chip or is this added when they bin the chips?

 

EDIT: I should also add that with regard tot he OT, companies like D-link, netgear, Linksys, etc  don't become successful by spending more than they have to, you can be rest assured that what ever software solution each company has chosen is either the cheapest or most reliable to implement. They know their client base and they know what their clients need. If your not happy then you are probably not their target demographic and that is probably why you don't like what you have been using.

Nice perspective on things. Thanks! The problem with that is that I still live with me parents, so while their target demographic may be my parents, I'm the one actually using the product

 

In regard to CPU ID and clock frequency: that is decided during the binning process. Every i5 rolls of the the production line as an i7/Xeon, it is only during the binning process that Intel decides what chips is what marketing term/frequency, based on how stable and fault free that particular die is.

 

PS: it's not only Intel that does this... EVERY chip manufacterer does this.

[LAwLz]

Your comment of its not directed at me does not change the fact that its simply the rudest post I have personally seen on this forum so far.

People like PFSense, get over it! Personally I have not used it but from what I have seen its good. Yes there are a lot of things on it that 99% of people wont need but there are a lot of good things about it.

 

You have an alternative? Instead of telling everyone how sick of pfsense you are, offer an alternative and explain why. Rants are just bitching unless they are companioned by some actual info and solutions to what you are "Ranting" about

I tried to not offend you but it seems like I failed. I am sorry.

Anyway, I did actually suggest an alternative in my post, a good consumer grade router.

Why? Because it's cheaper, makes less noise, uses less power, has better wireless and it's easier to configure and handle.

 

To me, recommending pfSense is like recommending Xeons. Would you recommend a Xeon to someone who is asking to build a gaming rig, or just a general purpose computer for someone's grandma? No you wouldn't (and if you would, stop). There are a ton of drawbacks to pfSense and next to no benefits (for home usage).

Can you please explain why you would recommend pfSense to anyone on this forum? What benefits does it have compared to a good consumer router?

 

 

He/she's just pissed it's a video made by Logan, I guess.

I haven't even watched the video. The only time I have mentioned Logan in this thread was when I said it was OK to post videos with him in. You're just grasping at straws here.

[MG2R]

Why? Because it's cheaper, makes less noise, uses less power, has better wireless and it's easier to configure and handle.

Can you please explain why you would recommend pfSense to anyone on this forum? What benefits does it have compared to a good consumer router?

You obviously need to watch the video, they're building the router with low power, passively cooled x86 units

 

Well, for one, I would love one because of the flexibility it provides. I'm all for not being tied down to what some manufacturer thinks I need. That said, I would probably go for iptables on Linux as opposed to pfSense/BSD

 

PS: wireless isn't part of the router business. I much prefer a decent router with separate WiFi access points than an all-in-one unit

[Ethnod]

To me, recommending pfSense is like recommending Xeons. Would you recommend a Xeon to someone who is asking to build a gaming rig, or just a general purpose computer for someone's grandma? No you wouldn't (and if you would, stop). There are a ton of drawbacks to pfSense and next to no benefits (for home usage).

Can you please explain why you would recommend pfSense to anyone on this forum? What benefits does it have compared to a good consumer router?

 

I am very careful as to what I recommend. I have never recommend a Xeon to anyone as I have not been asked by anyone that needs a Xeon tbh. If I do I will but those cases where someone needs a Xeon are so rare its doubtful I will ever do so. 99.999999999999999999999% of the time the cost/performance ratio makes it not worth while. 

 

As for pfsense, personally I just suggested he look at the vid I did not actually recommend it. most of this software is not great tbh. As for retail products? Well I have owned a few routers over the years and as time went on I started buying more and more higher end ones hoping for better firmware but never actually found it. Something like pfsense is a solution imho, firmware where you can add and remove features and even write your own if you know how to is better than the out of the box crap you get with 99% of routers. And if the OP has bothered to come to a forum and ask the question then clearly a out of the box solution is not the best recommendation for him, imo at least.

Specifically as to what software you (the OP) should look at? Talk to people, test some stuff out and do your homework and eventually the perfect solution will appear. Personally I will be testing a load of them out including pfsense so I can find whats right for me and my use case.

[LAwLz]

I am very careful as to what I recommend. I have never recommend a Xeon to anyone as I have not been asked by anyone that needs a Xeon tbh. If I do I will but those cases where someone needs a Xeon are so rare its doubtful I will ever do so. 99.999999999999999999999% of the time the cost/performance ratio makes it not worth while. 

 

As for pfsense, personally I just suggested he look at the vid I did not actually recommend it. most of this software is not great tbh. As for retail products? Well I have owned a few routers over the years and as time went on I started buying more and more higher end ones hoping for better firmware but never actually found it. Something like pfsense is a solution imho, firmware where you can add and remove features and even write your own if you know how to is better than the out of the box crap you get with 99% of routers. And if the OP has bothered to come to a forum and ask the question then clearly a out of the box solution is not the best recommendation for him, imo at least.

Specifically as to what software you (the OP) should look at? Talk to people, test some stuff out and do your homework and eventually the perfect solution will appear. Personally I will be testing a load of them out including pfsense so I can find whats right for me and my use case.

If you didn't recommend it then why were you offended by my post (even when I specifically said it was not directed at you specifically)?

Also, you ignored my question I asked you.

 

pfSense isn't even relevant to this conversation because we were talking about firmware for embedded devices, and pfSense is a whole OS mostly for desktop computers.

I highly disagree that third party firmware is better than the official firmware on 99% of all routers. Have you tried using a higher end router from a good manufacturer? Personally I haven't even bothered to look for third party firmware for my N56U because the official one is so good. Third party firmware might be better than the official firmware on some routers, but not 99% of them. Probably not even 50% of them, and that's without taking into consideration the routers which has next to no third party support (if I took those into consideration the number would probably drop to maybe 10%, if even that).

[MG2R]

Have you tried using a higher end router from a good manufacturer?

As I said multiple times already: our family will not invest in something as a router, unfortunately... That's what you get for being the only tech-minded person in the house

[Ethnod]

If you didn't recommend it then why were you offended by my post (even when I specifically said it was not directed at you specifically)?

Also, you ignored my question I asked you.

 

pfSense isn't even relevant to this conversation because we were talking about firmware for embedded devices, and pfSense is a whole OS mostly for desktop computers.

I highly disagree that third party firmware is better than the official firmware on 99% of all routers. Have you tried using a higher end router from a good manufacturer? Personally I haven't even bothered to look for third party firmware for my N56U because the official one is so good. Third party firmware might be better than the official firmware on some routers, but not 99% of them. Probably not even 50% of them, and that's without taking into consideration the routers which has next to no third party support (if I took those into consideration the number would probably drop to maybe 10%, if even that).

 

If offended is the word you want to keep using fine, I just thought it was rude. Regardless if it was not directed at me, just cause something is not directed at me does not mean it can be rude.

 

As for my router? The older brother of the WNR3500L (and its upstairs and I am too lazy to go look which model it is). Like I said in my last post, over the years I have been buying high end routers and found them lacking personally. And seeing as there is a huge community of people building and updating open source firmware for routers I am not alone here.

 

As for your question, I did not ignore it I actually answered it. I said I have not used it, dont know much about it and would not recommend it to anyone as I dont know much about it. As I said, I thought it might be an alternative or at least show the OP that there are other alternatives out there

[madcow]

For those who already have home servers running at all times, just running routing rules on it or a VM as a router is always a possibility. You do need either a second NIC or a managed switch though.

 

It eliminates most cons of running something like pfsense at home.