Samsung's Latest PM863 3D TLC SSD Owns It

[It's me!]

Frankly, i find it interesting that no one else can seem to figure out how to productize 3D NAND. It seems as if Samsung will have this advantage for at least another half year. 

 

 

Every major NAND fab has 3D NAND on the roadmap, but in many respects, Samsung is already at the finish line. The PM863's claimed performance improvements, capacity increase and low cost structure illuminate the importance of racing down the 3D NAND roadmap, and Samsung's continuing 3D NAND monopoly is paying incredible dividends for the company.

 

http://www.tomsitpro.com/articles/samsung-pm863-3d-tlc-v-nand-ssd,2-958.html

[Prysin]

 

Frankly, i find it interesting that no one else can seem to figure out how to productize 3D NAND. It seems as if Samsung will have this advantage for at least another half year. 

 

 

 

http://www.tomsitpro.com/articles/samsung-pm863-3d-tlc-v-nand-ssd,2-958.html

 

cuz samsung patented the shit out of their process, so anyone trying to copy get sued... that is why

 

trying to reinvent the wheel and not make it any less efficient while STILL looking and functioning different enough from the competitor to NOT get sued is not easy

[Eroda]

cuz samsung patented the shit out of their process, so anyone trying to copy get sued... that is why

 

trying to reinvent the wheel and not make it any less efficient while STILL looking and functioning different enough from the competitor to NOT get sued is not easy

 

sounds about right.. but then again i dont have a problem with that. spend a fortune coming up with a solution to a problem you deserve to own the solution

[KemoKa]

Samsung has a monopoly on this technology.

Problem is, it won't do them any good apart from capacity, because THEY'RE STILL USING A SATA BUS.

 

Okay, I understand why I don't buy Samsung's drives. Because I don't want to support a company that behaves that anti-competitively.

[Prysin]

sounds about right.. but then again i dont have a problem with that. spend a fortune coming up with a solution to a problem you deserve to own the solution

indeed... and given Samsungs production capacity, and the fact they MAKE IT THEMSELVES, unlike some competitors which sources parts from sub-vendors, they can keep costs super low.

[Prysin]

Samsung has a monopoly on this technology.

Problem is, it won't do them any good apart from capacity, because THEY'RE STILL USING A SATA BUS.

 

Okay, I understand why I don't buy Samsung's drives. Because I don't want to support a company that behaves that anti-competitively.

in Samsungs defence. they EARNED their spot. they werent the first to make SSDs (thus being "default monopoly")... unlike Intel which was one of the first to make consumer CPUs and thus has a huge piece of the cake "by default"

[AresKrieger]

Samsung has a monopoly on this technology.

Problem is, it won't do them any good apart from capacity, because THEY'RE STILL USING A SATA BUS.

 

Okay, I understand why I don't buy Samsung's drives. Because I don't want to support a company that behaves that anti-competitively.

In this case owning the production method is their right, patents need to exist otherwise why invent anything if you can steal the design

[KemoKa]

in Samsungs defence. they EARNED their spot. they werent the first to make SSDs (thus being "default monopoly")... unlike Intel which was one of the first to make consumer CPUs and thus has a huge piece of the cake "by default"

We'll see how it works out for them. Maybe all that'll happen is instead of die stacking, other companies will just stack chips on top of one another. So we'll all be carrying around 3½ inch bricks that are just packed with stacks and stacks of NAND. They're gonna have to bring back Molex connectors on hard drives!

[KemoKa]

In this case owning the production method is their right, patents need to exist otherwise why invent anything if you can steal the design

Yes, but knowing Samsung, they're gonna do the thing that they and Apple do where anything that looks remotely like it is grounds for a lawsuit. Like, wedge-shaped laptops, they want those off the market. Or laptops with rounded edges, those have gotta go too.

I have no problem with patents, so long as they're not abused to the point where nobody can compete.

[Prysin]

Yes, but knowing Samsung, they're gonna do the thing that they and Apple do where anything that looks remotely like it is grounds for a lawsuit. Like, wedge-shaped laptops, they want those off the market. Or laptops with rounded edges, those have gotta go too.

I have no problem with patents, so long as they're not abused to the point where nobody can compete.

Samsung is just sueing apple out of spite. Just like apple is suing everyone so they can remain "innovative"

[AresKrieger]

Yes, but knowing Samsung, they're gonna do the thing that they and Apple do where anything that looks remotely like it is grounds for a lawsuit. Like, wedge-shaped laptops, they want those off the market. Or laptops with rounded edges, those have gotta go too.

I have no problem with patents, so long as they're not abused to the point where nobody can compete.

Design patents are indeed bullshit, I'll give you that, as for the 3D nand it is clear cut whether someone copied your design, it is very unique, and didn't exist before the patents unlike rounded edge phones.

[patrickjp93]

cuz samsung patented the shit out of their process, so anyone trying to copy get sued... that is why

 

trying to reinvent the wheel and not make it any less efficient while STILL looking and functioning different enough from the competitor to NOT get sued is not easy

Really? Intel seems to have figured that out (at least on TLC VNAND, though on GPU IP they obviously have a much more treacherous minefield to navigate).

 

 

indeed... and given Samsungs production capacity, and the fact they MAKE IT THEMSELVES, unlike some competitors which sources parts from sub-vendors, they can keep costs super low.

Yup, and hopefully with Amazon's move of really cutting down the cost of the Sandisk Ultra II (got the 960GB one for $215 after taxes and shipping yesterday), we're beginning to really zero-in on that 10-20 cents per GB threshold everyone's been hyping. There's also the fact that 2.5" SSDs, which you can fit 2 of in the height of standard 3.5" drives, are also much lower power, lower weight, and much more durable since they really don't have any vibration sensitivity. I'd honestly be very happy with a 1TB M.2 NVMe solution (give me 1TB 950 Pro Samsung!) for many years as long as there isn't performance degradation like there was with the 840 EVO and such.

 

What's truly scary is we may eventually need a PCIe card dedicated to running up to 4 M.2 devices (PCIe gen 3) in RAID configurations. Imagine a full 16x connection dedicated to nothing but your file I/O and how stupidly fast that really is for anything even workstation people could need. 16GB/s sustained read and write (a bit less, but you get the idea). And then PCIe 4.0 will redouble this capability.

 

Hell with Intel's new Omnipath interconnect, they're going to eventually have enterprise storage solutions on the order of 100GB/s at the lowest latency in the industry.

[Guest Kloaked]

they really don't have any vibration sensitivity.

 

Such a shame. Vibration sensitivity is very pleasurable.

 

What are we talking about again?

[Prysin]

Really? Intel seems to have figured that out (at least on TLC VNAND, though on GPU IP they obviously have a much more treacherous minefield to navigate).

 

 

Yup, and hopefully with Amazon's move of really cutting down the cost of the Sandisk Ultra II (got the 960GB one for $215 after taxes and shipping yesterday), we're beginning to really zero-in on that 10-20 cents per GB threshold everyone's been hyping. There's also the fact that 2.5" SSDs, which you can fit 2 of in the height of standard 3.5" drives, are also much lower power, lower weight, and much more durable since they really don't have any vibration sensitivity. I'd honestly be very happy with a 1TB M.2 NVMe solution (give me 1TB 950 Pro Samsung!) for many years as long as there isn't performance degradation like there was with the 840 EVO and such.

 

What's truly scary is we may eventually need a PCIe card dedicated to running up to 4 M.2 devices (PCIe gen 3) in RAID configurations. Imagine a full 16x connection dedicated to nothing but your file I/O and how stupidly fast that really is for anything even workstation people could need. 16GB/s sustained read and write (a bit less, but you get the idea). And then PCIe 4.0 will redouble this capability.

 

Hell with Intel's new Omnipath interconnect, they're going to eventually have enterprise storage solutions on the order of 100GB/s at the lowest latency in the industry.

did you see the Dell card???

it had 4x M.2

 

would be interesting to get that card and slap it into a Gen3 x16.... to get quad x4 Gen3

[patrickjp93]

did you see the Dell card???

it had 4x M.2

 

would be interesting to get that card and slap it into a Gen3 x16.... to get quad x4 Gen3

Yeah but that's specifically a storage cache server implementation, and they asked Intel if it could come up with a 64-lane SKU for Broadwell to expand the capabilities.

[ZetZet]

First it's patents, second it's not needed. Crucial is doing just fine with their MLC flash.

[Prysin]

Yeah but that's specifically a storage cache server implementation, and they asked Intel if it could come up with a 64-lane SKU for Broadwell to expand the capabilities.

well, i kinda know that it would be stupid in a consumer PC...

 

given that the throughput of 4x 950 Pros in Raid0 would be so high that anything less then a high core Xeon would be heavily bottlenecking trying to shuffle all that data to whatever place it is going 

 

 

anyways... yeah, 1TB 950 Pros, waiting for it...

gonna be fun to see what the Seagate CEO says once the 1TB SSDs drop down to 10-20cents/GB.... He always seem to have something funny to say when shit aint going his way

[patrickjp93]

well, i kinda know that it would be stupid in a consumer PC...

 

given that the throughput of 4x 950 Pros in Raid0 would be so high that anything less then a high core Xeon would be heavily bottlenecking trying to shuffle all that data to whatever place it is going 

 

 

anyways... yeah, 1TB 950 Pros, waiting for it...

gonna be fun to see what the Seagate CEO says once the 1TB SSDs drop down to 10-20cents/GB.... He always seem to have something funny to say when shit aint going his way

Even WD has seen the light and is bundling SSDs and HDDs into a single 3.5" package to pair high-speed storage and slower but far bigger storage in a (imho) more elegant, transparent way than Seagate's SSHD offerings.

[Prysin]

Even WD has seen the light and is bundling SSDs and HDDs into a single 3.5" package to pair high-speed storage and slower but far bigger storage in a (imho) more elegant, transparent way than Seagate's SSHD offerings.

dude... i own a WD Black² a proper 120GB SSD + 1TB HDD.... downside is the controller sharing

 

the WD Black²is a 2,5" package....

 

however, i will add one thing....

the color matching on the metal casing and the PCB section is spot on... they even managed to match the glossyness of the metal's coating.... on a PCB.... sick shit i tell you...

 

best part is... i got my drive at 86% off (the retailer wanted to purge their stock.... got a Corsair 380T at 50%, Crucial Tac Tracers 2x4GB 1600MHz at 35% and a Corsair RM850 at 45% in the same sale... yeah, my ITX rig is CHEAP!! )

[patrickjp93]

dude... i own a WD Black² a proper 120GB SSD + 1TB HDD.... downside is the controller sharing

 

the WD Black²is a 2,5" package....

 

however, i will add one thing....

the color matching on the metal casing and the PCB section is spot on... they even managed to match the glossyness of the metal's coating.... on a PCB.... sick shit i tell you...

 

best part is... i got my drive at 86% off (the retailer wanted to purge their stock.... got a Corsair 380T at 50%, Crucial Tac Tracers 2x4GB 1600MHz at 35% and a Corsair RM850 at 45% in the same sale... yeah, my ITX rig is CHEAP!! )

Sorry, finger slipped from 2 to 3. Nice!!! That was a steal.

[deviant88]

I just bought a samsung 850 evo 250gb on black fridey and its awesome  but this will be my last SSD/HDD/Drive ever that uses SATA, we need mainstream NVMe at similar prices and better nvme controllers 1st generations always sucks, i hope samsung increases their capacity with 3D with low costs and implements NVMe for mainstream faster, so far i think they have only the 950 EVO nvme on m2 slot but we need new connection types i hope they make a standard connector for NVME faster we need it in the next gen boards

[Prysin]

Sorry, finger slipped from 2 to 3. Nice!!! That was a steal.

on further inspection, the top is all PCB... but it looks and feels cold like metal

 

i really like this drive estetically... looks prettier then the 850s... Although, the black PCB of the 950Pros... man, those look good....

 

now, all i need is ZEN/Skylake board and some KLEVV CRAS.....

[patrickjp93]

I just bought a samsung 850 evo 250gb on black fridey and its awesome  but this will be my last SSD/HDD/Drive ever that uses SATA, we need mainstream NVMe at similar prices and better nvme controllers 1st generations always sucks, i hope samsung increases their capacity with 3D with low costs and implements NVMe for mainstream faster, so far i think they have only the 950 EVO nvme on m2 slot but we need new connection types i hope they make a standard connector for NVME faster we need it in the next gen boards

It's called U.2, and it's already out. It looks like a SAS connector.

[It's me!]

It's called U.2, and it's already out. It looks like a SAS connector.

Yeah, the only problem is that some shortsightedness from the spec committee...its only PCIe 3.0 x4! Needs to be x8

[patrickjp93]

Yeah, the only problem is that some shortsightedness from the spec committee...its only PCIe 3.0 x4! Needs to be x8

Do you seriously need transfer speeds greater than 4GB/s (32Gb/s) to a single drive?