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Intel Says "Moore's Law isn't dead"

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4nm is harder than we thought, but we do not see a long-term difference in what we were able to see in the past and what we can achieve in the future,” he said. “We saw good results on 14nm and project good results on 10nm.” Intel can see its path through 7nm production, Holt said.

That's awesome! The faster the processors the better.

 

 

intel-bill-holt.jpg?fit=930%2C9999

Found this why researching Moore's Law for history class, the article was published today, don't know how accurate it is, but still cool.

 

 

 

Sauce: http://venturebeat.com/2015/11/19/intel-says-moores-law-isnt-dead-yet/

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It has about a decade left in it, even with carbon nanotubes and graphene. After that it will come down to increasing core sizes, increasing cache sizes, tuning architecture, and stacking chips.

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That's awesome! The faster the processors the better.

 

 

14 nm, 10nm, etc. is the diameter of the transistors. has nothing to do with speed.

 

it can make it so they can use more, but the size wont directly make it faster

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It has about a decade left in it, even with carbon nanotubes and graphene. After that it will come down to increasing core sizes, increasing cache sizes, tuning architecture, and stacking chips.

We need to ditch Silicon....Fast.....

 

 

 

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14 nm, 10nm, etc. is the diameter of the transistors. has nothing to do with speed.

 

it can make it so they can use more, but the size wont directly make it faster

You can fit more in the same space while making them more efficient tho... Correct?

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You can fit more in the same space while making them more efficient tho... Correct?

yes, but, as far as i know, heat becomes quite difficult to deal with

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It has about a decade left in it, even with carbon nanotubes and graphene. After that it will come down to increasing core sizes, increasing cache sizes, tuning architecture, and stacking chips.

you of all people should know Amdahl doesnt agree with the second statement :P We will probably see arch go to average instruction time come down to 1.x cycles, and L3 latency come down to 1.x cycles. Then its up to the programmers to utilise the speeds, properly start multithreading everything, and utilise SIMD (and wiht the combination of all of that, MIMD as well). After that happens, Von Neumann is dead, and quantum realms need to be explored

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yes, but, as far as i know, heat becomes quite difficult to deal with

just to clarify, its not the diameter, its the smallest feature. usually either the lenght of the gate, or the source/drain channels. the whole 22nm transistor from intel is some 120nm across, so there is still lots of room to shrink things (also why samsung and TSMC are lying about their process sizes slightly, as the transistors are still 22nm class)

 

Also, with a good uarch, you can manage the heat by placing high heat units away from eachother (things like ALUs, FPUs, VPUs, anything that does work).

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just to clarify, its not the diameter, its the smallest feature. usually either the lenght of the gate, or the source/drain channels. the whole 22nm transistor from intel is some 120nm across, so there is still lots of room to shrink things (also why samsung and TSMC are lying about their process sizes slightly, as the transistors are still 22nm class)

 

Also, with a good uarch, you can manage the heat by placing high heat units away from eachother (things like ALUs, FPUs, VPUs, anything that does work).

Thanks for the correction.

 

I have been told that older processors with larger transistors dissipate heat significantly better, allowing for better OCs, can you confirm?

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stacking chips.

So we will have 'mad stacks' of processors then? 

 

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Might sounds stupid, but Moore's law is the one with the number of transistors doubling correct? 

 

Yes.

 

Essentially, Moore's Law states that the number of transistors in a chip doubles every two to three years.

 

Only problem with Moore's Law is that it only accounts for silicon. We're running out of time before that becomes the antiquated form of computing, but unless we find something it's unlikely we'll get a process smaller than 1nm through silicon-based compounds.

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Moore's Law will eventually die. It must. Computers as they function today cannot have transistors that get infinitely small.

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Moore's Law will eventually die. It must. Computers as they function today cannot have transistors that get infinitely small.

And they really can't get past or to 7mm without a change from silicon.

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Moores law died like 40 years ago.  They've had to keep moving the goalposts and redefining what's doubling to even vaguely adhere to the trend. "oh it's double the transistors".  "oh it's doublthe performance"  "oh it's double the performance per watt". etc etc

 

Also it pisses me off to no end when BK says something like "we're going to harness the power of Moore's Law"..  For fucks sake it's not a law, it's an observation of a past trend.  It does nothing to help you now or in the future.

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Thanks for the correction.

 

I have been told that older processors with larger transistors dissipate heat significantly better, allowing for better OCs, can you confirm?

Mainly because they used solder (actual metal) to seal the contact between the die and the IHS. now with smaller transistors, solder kills chips (as its applied hot) and they use a special TIM instead. that is the biggest reason for the "higher" temps.

 

Otherwise its placement of functional units that determines hot spots that need to be cooled. usually chips have some dead transistors around those units to help dissipate heat more efficiently these days.

 

Moores law died like 40 years ago.  They've had to keep moving the goalposts and redefining what's doubling to even vaguely adhere to the trend. "oh it's double the transistors".  "oh it's doublthe performance"  "oh it's double the performance per watt". etc etc

 

Also it pisses me off to no end when BK says something like "we're going to harness the power of Moore's Law"..  For fucks sake it's not a law, it's an observation of a past trend.  It does nothing to help you now or in the future.

actually the number of transistors per core doubled till haswell (give or take a few thousand, and not count the die shrinks as generations).

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14 nm, 10nm, etc. is the diameter of the transistors. has nothing to do with speed.

If I remember correctly, the smaller the transistor, the faster they can switch.

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If I remember correctly, the smaller the transistor, the faster they can switch.

I did not know that.

is that literally because of a smaller distance? or is it an electrochemical thing?

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Solitaire. 

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I did not know that.

is that literally because of a smaller distance? or is it an electrochemical thing?

voltage takes time to build up. you need a set voltage to switch the state of the transistor. the smaller the transistor, the lower the voltage needed to switch. from that we extrapolate its faster to switch a smaller transistor. same concept applies to exotic transistors made from other materials, like graphene (max achieved switchrate was 40GHz iirc, with silicon doing 10)

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voltage takes time to build up. you need a set voltage to switch the state of the transistor. the smaller the transistor, the lower the voltage needed to switch. from that we extrapolate its faster to switch a smaller transistor. same concept applies to exotic transistors made from other materials, like graphene (max achieved switchrate was 40GHz iirc, with silicon doing 10)

that would only work to a certain extent though, no?

 

at some point wouldnt it become too easy to overvolt?

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Well, with an i7, GTX 1080, Full tower and flashy lights, it can obviously only be for one thing:

Solitaire. 

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voltage takes time to build up. you need a set voltage to switch the state of the transistor. the smaller the transistor, the lower the voltage needed to switch. from that we extrapolate its faster to switch a smaller transistor. same concept applies to exotic transistors made from other materials, like graphene (max achieved switchrate was 40GHz iirc, with silicon doing 10)

Graphene was 1THz actually (MIT testing).

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At that swapping speed, power delivery is going to have to be straighter than anything ever before.

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I did not know that.

is that literally because of a smaller distance? or is it an electrochemical thing?

I forgot to mention that the lithography of a transistor(10nm, 14nm, etc) is not the diameter of the transistor. It's normally the distance between the source and the drain.

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I wonder if our brain intelligence follows something like Moore's Law as with technology we get smarter. 

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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I wonder if our brain intelligence follows something like Moore's Law as with technology we get smarter. 

I would argue that technology is making us mentally lazier.

"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out." - Carl Sagan.

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you" - Edward I. Koch

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