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France Has A New Controversial Surveillance Law

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Hollande just spoke about how France is the capital of civil rights .. and what France does? take a dump on civil rights

Surely civil rights portrays religious freedom, which isn't... France's strong point.


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EDWARD SNOWDEN

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When the 'free world' was being created, it was understood that with freedom, there were always going to be people who want to watch the world burn.

 

They believed it was worth it. I'd rather live free and die young. I'd rather live like an individual than just survive as a human being.

 

This is what I was worried about. Reactionaries. I f*cking hate reactionaries and the sc*mbags who take advantage of them.


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With the attackers being born citizens of the countries they are attacking... There is no way to tell unless you do something like this.

 

I don't see a problem with this unless you have something to hide. I think it's good, has the potential to get a terrorist off the streets that could have plans to kill 100's of not 1000's of people. Who gives a damn if they know you Skype with a latvian transgender prostitute at $5.99 a minute.


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I have an Idea. Why make all the nuclear weapons when we can all jump into a fusion reactor, I mean the sun. That would solve all the terrorist problem, wouldn't it? No human, no terrorism, no global warming, a beautiful world.

 

For those with the intelligence of a single cell organism, I'm joking.

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What's the point though? Anybody who actually WANTS to hide their comms will easily be able to do so. You're essentially just spying on the people who don't have anything to hide anyway.


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You won't see the evidence, the secret service who does this surveillance keeps it secret for a reason, For every attack on Paris i suspect the likes of MI6 have prevented 20 others, because they are allowed to "snoop" on potential threats to national security.

 

Granted if these powers are in place and abused once/if the terrorist threat is defeated, then we have something to worry about.  

 

That's convenient, isn't it?

 

Fact is, mass surveillance is inefficient - there is no good way to separate the wheat from the chaff, and the more surveillance the worse the situation gets. The chances for abuse are rampant, while the chances for actually turning up actionable intelligence are very small.

 

And for what? Why is it so vitally important that we make terrorism such a priority that we're willing to compromise core societal values?

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Privacy only works in high trust societies. Once the trust is degraded through whatever means(most commonly two or more very different groups people living in close proximity to one another) surveillance must be used in increasingly larger amounts to maintain order. You can only have privacy if you trust your neighbor to not aloha snackbar blow your shit up is what I'm saying, and after both of the attacks in France only a blind fool would extend that trust. In the end surveillance is only a half measure, the only way to truly stop ISIS and other terrorists would get anyone called a fascist and a racist and most people would rather let their fellow countrymen die than be called those things.

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You won't see the evidence, the secret service who does this surveillance keeps it secret for a reason, For every attack on Paris i suspect the likes of MI6 have prevented 20 others, because they are allowed to "snoop" on potential threats to national security.

 

Granted if these powers are in place and abused once/if the terrorist threat is defeated, then we have something to worry about.

After the Snowden revelations, the entire NSA spying program was reviewed. They claimed that the programs had foiled dozens of plots, but their only actual terror-related catch as a result of the extra surveillance turned out to be a San Diego cab driver that tried to donate 8500 dollars to Al-Shabab back in 2008. By that time they had already spent close to half a TRILLION dollars on all the extra surveillance.

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MI6 have stopped 7 attacks this year alone thanks to surveillance it was reported on the news today....The fact is there are people living amongst us that want to commit atrocities far worse than happened in Paris, Saving lives is more important than government knowing about your addiction to double anal nurse porn. 

 

Unless you meet a certain criteria you data collected on you is never even going to be looked at, don't worry your fetish for amputee midget strap on porn is safe....


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That's convenient, isn't it?

 

Fact is, mass surveillance is inefficient - there is no good way to separate the wheat from the chaff, and the more surveillance the worse the situation gets. The chances for abuse are rampant, while the chances for actually turning up actionable intelligence are very small.

 

And for what? Why is it so vitally important that we make terrorism such a priority that we're willing to compromise core societal values?

This, you could have a million analysts analyzing everyone's text messages, phone calls, conversations and 99.999% of that is gonna be unrelated to their 'official goal'. However the end information will then be available for wrongful police use, and will be ripe for corrupt government officials to help do some people's dirty work.


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MI6 have stopped 7 attacks this year alone thanks to surveillance it was reported on the news today....The fact is there are people living amongst us that want to commit atrocities far worse than happened in Paris, Saving lives is more important than government knowing about your addiction to double anal nurse porn. 

 

Unless you meet a certain criteria you data collected on you is never even going to be looked at, don't worry your fetish for amputee midget strap on porn is safe....

 

Where did you read that it was specifically due to surveillance? I find it more likely that it was thanks to conventional intelligence and investigation. And if those attacks were thwarted successfully with current resources, why is that being used to justify yet more surveillance? As I noted before, increased surveillance makes the task more difficult, not less. Terrorist attacks are far too rare for obvious patterns to be mined from mass data collection.

 

Also consider that terrorists are actively trying to avoid detection, while the average person probably isn't during their day to day activities. Combine those factors with the rarity of actual terrorist plots, and you have a situation ripe for overwhelming false positives and massive waste of funds.

 

And again, I ask: why does terrorism merit this level of response? Why aren't we dumping vast resources into combating real threats to life, like disease? Could it be that the terrorist threat is being overblown as a scaremongering tactic? Heaven forbid!

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Jesus it's like the Patriot Act all over again.

Ctrl+F "Patriot Act"

 

There it is! I hope some of the French will remember what happened in the U.S. and at least shelve this bill for a bit, so people can look at this with cooler heads.


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This is not a solution and it certainly won't lead to one.
 
They let the terrorists win whenever they react like this. It was the downfall of the U.S it will be the downfall for many others, too.
 

Better to live then be killed by islamic terrorists. I would prefer losing some privacy as I have nothing to hide.

The biggest looser would be those islamic terrorists. True it can be misused. But, lets just kick there as*. That's only what matters right now.


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Posted · Original PosterOP

MI6 have stopped 7 attacks this year alone thanks to surveillance it was reported on the news today....The fact is there are people living amongst us that want to commit atrocities far worse than happened in Paris, Saving lives is more important than government knowing about your addiction to double anal nurse porn. 

 

Unless you meet a certain criteria you data collected on you is never even going to be looked at, don't worry your fetish for amputee midget strap on porn is safe....

Yes, they may have stopped 7 attacks, but that doesn't guarantee that every other attack will be successful

Plus we can't guarantee that they used Mass surveillance systems 

 

I'm pretty sure the government knows more than what you watch now.

They have the power to freeze your accounts and cut all of your communication with the power they have

Edward Snowden specifically said that all your data is collected; where you go, who you meet with and even what you had for dinner last night

 

And how can you be certain that the criteria of the government is justifiable, when not even the people they serve can see the actual proof that it is justifiable.


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Yes, they may have stopped 7 attacks, but that doesn't guarantee that every other attack will be successful

Plus we can't guarantee that they used Mass surveillance systems 

 

I'm pretty sure the government knows more than what you watch now.

They have the power to freeze your accounts and cut all of your communication with the power they have

Edward Snowden specifically said that all your data is collected; where you go, who you meet with and even what you had for dinner last night

 

And how can you be certain that the criteria of the government is justifiable, when not even the people they serve can see the actual proof that it is justifiable.

 

Nope they may not have been successful, but why give them the chance to be....look what happened in Paris.

 

Targeted surveillance is needed, if you are a law abiding citizen your data will never be looked at, the shear volume of data that is being collected is impossible for them to even scratch the surface going through, they will have key words they will look for, and will more than likely targeting Arabic text more than European text. 

 

Unfortunately we live in a dangerous time now, what happened in Paris can not be allowed to happen again, if that means sacrificing a little privacy, and the billion billion to one chance MI6 is going to look at my pornhub history so be it.


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Posted · Original PosterOP

Nope they may not have been successful, but why give them the chance to be....look what happened in Paris.

 

Targeted surveillance is needed, if you are a law abiding citizen your data will never be looked at, the shear volume of data that is being collected is impossible for them to even scratch the surface going through, they will have key words they will look for, and will more than likely targeting Arabic text more than European text. 

 

Unfortunately we live in a dangerous time now, what happened in Paris can not be allowed to happen again, if that means sacrificing a little privacy, and the billion billion to one chance MI6 is going to look at my pornhub history so be it.

Again, like I said the government knows more than your search history and what porn you watch

They know everything about you, all your accounts and all your data is collected

They will have keyloggers on every PC including yours; they will have cameras watching your every move

 

And what makes you suggest that all ISIS members use Arab; they're already an international group

They can communicate in more languages than just Arab, and they're smart enough to know that

 

I would never sacrifice my privacy unless they show actual results, that pure Mass Surveillance works 100% of the time

We've always lived in dangerous times, we just have newer enemies


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Uhhh, people prefer privacy than their lives? Not saying it's a good thing, but terrorists are getting smarter and smarter. 


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To all the people saying they have nothing to hide: well why don't you all pm me all your e-mail addresses, bank account data, social media account info and all other valuable accounts you own. Then let me install cameras in every one of your rooms, track your phones so i know where you are at any point and read your messages.

 

You wouldn't give me all that now would you? So why should anyone have all that information besides you? What makes you believe that all that information is definitely 100% going to help the government/secret agencies prevent terrorist attacks? Just because they say so? Since when do we believe everything the media tries to sell us?

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the more i see people say "i got nothing to hide", the more i believe Urobuchi that was on to something when he created Psycho Pass


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I can tell you that these attacks will be the perfect argument for my government to vote new "killing-liberties" laws.

 

The prime minister already announced that a new law will be voted within this week. One week for a new law ? Seriously ?

 

My people is curretly the most hypocrite, and dumbest of all time. Nobody said something about the Intelligence law, but hey, let's stroke for the gay mariage law.


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No, it isn't better at all

 

I'm sure that the government has so many other ways to stop them, and if they don't then we may not have any hope

 

Saying that you have nothing to hide is an utter lie; if it isn't I would kindly ask you to give me all your private information including credit card numbers and all your passwords

...oh wait that's an invasion of privacy (I guess we do have some things to hide)

 

Plus saying it will be a fine way to kick a** is a really poor argument when we're talking about misuse of information

The list that you mentioned is what they already have :D. They might not have all password you use. 

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Like many others here, I too want to show my absolute disdain for this law. It is useless and it will only infringe on our liberties more and more.

But I understand the goverent wanting to show some populist measure that appeases the simple minded. Mass surveilance, close borders.

It is a lot easier than to tackle the real issues that led to these attacks like inequality and underlying racism.


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Guess we'll get to see if they will make the same mistake as the US did with the patriot act (which funnily enough is as anti patriotic as it gets!).

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