Ark DX12 patch delayed indefintely (update Jan 2017- now Vulkan in the works)

[Dabombinable]

3 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Says the guy who gets kickbacks from calling me an Intel ass-kisser.

Well the majority of your "proof" in regards to optimisation reuires a course in C++ (that's still on-going), and doesn't have you supplying the proof itself that your citing.

 

Edit: There is no point in compiling a script if you don't understand exactly how it works.

[Prysin]

On 08/10/2015 at 6:43 PM, Misanthrope said:

It's probably because as inexperienced devs, they thought the same as many end users and believed the hype. Here's the truth: Performance gains will be minimal at best for DX12 initially, since it will basically means a lot of relearning and recoding to take advantage of potential DX12 gains that will remain mostly potential for months or even years.

i would agree in this case. But DX12 shouldnt be hard (in general). Game devs has already been optimizing for low level console APIs which is basically DX12. So the concept of "talking directly to hardware" isnt new, nor difficult. What i personally think is happening is that they are afraid to piss off hardware vendors such as Nvidia, because whilst Nvidia may not sponsor or help them, they DO have a massive market share, and if said market share suddenly doesnt enjoy your title, you're stuck with AMD and possibly Intel users, of which there may be too few users to fully justify the risk.

 

So while Nvidia doesnt pay or pressure devs, their disasters of a "architecture" is slowing adoption and will continue to do so for years.

[Prysin]

28 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Well the majority of your "proof" in regards to optimisation reuires a course in C++ (that's still on-going), and doesn't have you supplying the proof itself that your citing.

 

Edit: There is no point in compiling a script if you don't understand exactly how it works.

He actually have proof this time. 5 hours of your life reading up C++ and some AVX coding will let you grasp the very rough basics of his changes.

[Prysin]

33 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Says the guy who gets kickbacks from calling me an Intel ass-kisser.

well, you tend to grossly over-exagurate and over-glorify intels solutions, more often then not, for reasons that is totally illogical.

[patrickjp93]

Just now, Prysin said:

well, you tend to grossly over-exagurate and over-glorify intels solutions, more often then not, for reasons that is totally illogical.

I understand English is your 3rd language, but seriously?

 

I demand you provide a shred of evidence.

[patrickjp93]

32 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Well the majority of your "proof" in regards to optimisation reuires a course in C++ (that's still on-going), and doesn't have you supplying the proof itself that your citing.

 

Edit: There is no point in compiling a script if you don't understand exactly how it works.

It does not require it. I provide the immediate resources to see the exact comparisons.

 

If you're dumb enough to not see a+b=c and A[1]+B[1]=C[1], A[2]+B[2]=C[2],..., then you neither deserve to call yourself knowledgeable nor intelligent.

[Prysin]

5 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

I understand English is your 3rd language, but seriously?

 

I demand you provide a shred of evidence.

https://linustechtips.com/main/profile/85535-patrickjp93/content/

 

pick any topic where intel is discussed. Your post history will do the rest.

[patrickjp93]

Just now, Prysin said:

https://linustechtips.com/main/profile/85535-patrickjp93/content/

 

pick any topic where intel is discussed. Your post history will do the rest.

And I haven't proven in every instance Intel's performance at equivalent code isn't vastly superior? This should be good...

 

Prysin, I resect you more than most as one willing to learn and attempt to surpass those around you, but you're outmatched.

 

Prove, me, wrong.

 

I don't even care that it's become a match of pride and skill, you're honorable and capable, something I haven't seen in 3 years. Prove me wrong. It would be interesting, if nothing else.

[Carclis]

1 hour ago, patrickjp93 said:

When you're working at a game and game-engine level, you're working at the system level. For a 1 million+ lines of code codebase, that takes significant time regardless of the number of programmers, regardless of their caliber. I wouldn't so lightly mock them unless you're prepared to put your reputation on the line and join them in the trenches.

 

And it's not like the choice of going with the more cross-platform, open, but later-released API is a bad choice. I invite you to prove otherwise.

 

At least when I criticize the CPU-side optimization techniques of the industry as a whole I back it up with programs posted here on LTT that beat industry code by 5x at a minimum and in some cases beat it by 10x.

Evidently they had DX12 working and that's why they waited until the day it was due before they decided to can it. I'm curious as to how their move to support Vulkan will be any different.

[patrickjp93]

6 minutes ago, Carclis said:

Evidently they had DX12 working and that's why they waited until the day it was due before they decided to can it. I'm curious as to how their move to support Vulkan will be any different.

Says who?

 

Because it's good for PR.

 

I'm becoming seriously disappointed with LTT's community. Even the teenage brats were good sport 5 years ago.

[Carclis]

29 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Says who?

 

Because it's good for PR.

 

I'm becoming seriously disappointed with LTT's community. Even the teenage brats were good sport 5 years ago.

They have stated themselves that DX12 was working but didn't show performance increases on ALL setups which seems pretty standard for DX12 really. So other than it being an Nvidia title there is no reason for them to have abandoned it.

[patrickjp93]

Just now, Carclis said:

They have stated themselves that DX12 was working but didn't show performance increases on ALL setups which seems pretty standard for DX12 really. So other than it being an Nvidia title there is no reason for them to have abandoned it.

Standard? Less than half the time. May I remind you all of Nvidia setups see 2% or less (and most often, negative) gain, and that's provably because Nvidia's drivers better allocate the tasks  in a serial pipeline than AMD's. Nvidia's pipeline has been better-saturated for the better part of 5 years.

 

There most certainly is good reason. PR is a wonderful weapon. In fact it's the only reason AMD remains standing.

[Carclis]

6 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Standard? Less than half the time. May I remind you all of Nvidia setups see 2% or less (and most often, negative) gain, and that's provably because Nvidia's drivers better allocate the tasks  in a serial pipeline than AMD's. Nvidia's pipeline has been better-saturated for the better part of 5 years.

 

There most certainly is good reason. PR is a wonderful weapon. In fact it's the only reason AMD remains standing.

I'd agree with most of that. It just don't see how it would be a bad move for PR if they released it. The game itself is so poorly optimised that I'd argue it can't get much worse and it actually has the early access excuse to hide behind still.

[Humbug]

8 minutes ago, Carclis said:

I'd agree with most of that. It just don't see how it would be a bad move for PR if they released it. The game itself is so poorly optimised that I'd argue it can't get much worse and it actually has the early access excuse to hide behind still.

I guess they could have had a drop down menu to switch between dx11 and dx12 modes... Nobody loses. I didn't see the issue with releasing it even if less than perfect when the whole game is considered beta and how they always say more optimization to come closer to final release.

 

id software gave us a final release quality Vulkan implementation, whereas Dota 2 (on Valve's source 2) and Talos Principle (Serious engine 4) are both currently optional betas under development, even though they currently perform well.

[patrickjp93]

36 minutes ago, Carclis said:

I'd agree with most of that. It just don't see how it would be a bad move for PR if they released it. The game itself is so poorly optimised that I'd argue it can't get much worse and it actually has the early access excuse to hide behind still.

You're out of your mind. Ark 2 has better (CPU-side) optimization than Star Citizen. It simply is that demanding. It actually uses AVX2 in critical code paths. No other game currently does.

[Misanthrope]

2 hours ago, Prysin said:

i would agree in this case. But DX12 shouldnt be hard (in general). Game devs has already been optimizing for low level console APIs which is basically DX12. So the concept of "talking directly to hardware" isnt new, nor difficult. What i personally think is happening is that they are afraid to piss off hardware vendors such as Nvidia, because whilst Nvidia may not sponsor or help them, they DO have a massive market share, and if said market share suddenly doesnt enjoy your title, you're stuck with AMD and possibly Intel users, of which there may be too few users to fully justify the risk.

 

So while Nvidia doesnt pay or pressure devs, their disasters of a "architecture" is slowing adoption and will continue to do so for years.

I agree: non technical aspects should be consider and yes Nvidia has enough market share to intimidate devs like that but it would have to be done very subtly and covertly otherwise the FTC would be all over them in seconds.

[Carclis]

4 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

You're out of your mind. Ark 2 has better (CPU-side) optimization than Star Citizen. It simply is that demanding. It actually uses AVX2 in critical code paths. No other game currently does.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in this area but other games being better optimised than Star Citizen at this point at least doesn't at all sound surprising. It is a bit disappointing to hear though as even on my rig I'd say the experience in Ark was much less than ideal.

[LeChef]

On 8-10-2015 at 9:14 PM, CatCloud said:

Wildly unoptemized?

Lol I don't think whoever wrote the article have played the game, it runs about as well as Witcher 3 for me

Although the latest patch did effect performance a little.

But Wildly? Ha! Maybe when it went live.

As for this delay, eh they should finish the dx 11 support first.

Have you ever built a metal base with a 20x20xH layout? Shitty programming makes this stuff laggy as all hell. 
getting framedrops from 100fps looking to the sea back to 20 when looking at my base..

[Prysin]

5 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

I agree: non technical aspects should be consider and yes Nvidia has enough market share to intimidate devs like that but it would have to be done very subtly and covertly otherwise the FTC would be all over them in seconds.

I think you misunderstood. Nvidia doesnt need to do jack shit. The mere fact that their abysmal DX12 performance is so... abysmal, and the fact that they have the lions share of the gaming market means the mere existence of abysmal Nvidia architectures holding this much market share alone is holding DX12 adoption back.

[7850OC]

i just "skip" all Unreal Engine 1 2 3 4  games lol  

 

(so many bugs, and no will to fix them) 

[Sharkyx1]

On 1/3/2017 at 8:30 PM, 7850OC said:

i just "skip" all Unreal Engine 1 2 3 4  games lol  

 

(so many bugs, and no will to fix them) 

some of the biggest games out there are on unreal though? its the biggest game engine out there

 

Arkham, All the new fighting games, the bioshock games, Borderlands, bulletstorm, chivalry, Dishonoured, Deus Ex, all the splinter cell games

[That Norwegian Guy]

Aw shoot, I promised myself I would buy every game that has Vulkan, but Ark doesn't appeal to me. Guess i'll give it to a charity then

[MrDynamicMan]

Yeah. Ive given up on that game. After SE, DX12 (which was supposed to drop 2015 december), etc, etc. I had a lot of hope but gameplay remains one dimensional, unbalanced, and uninteresting.

 

Also, Is @Humbug the same humbug for survivetheark.

[Yoinkerman]

They both charge money, and have released a paid expansion.  There's no way this is early access.  No matter what they spout

 

Nah m8 0/8

[Thony]

Holy mother of uodates. U went all the way back to October to update the title heh.