Smoking Barrels - LTT's Unnofficial Gun Club!

[Real_PhillBert]

12 minutes ago, amdorintel said:

the population size of canada, is the size of california

ya never no

You're not asking about California, you're asking about one particular high school; there's a huge difference between the two. 

[Guest]

I'm looking at getting my first pistol/handgun soon.

 

At my local paintball & airsoft shop, I was holding some replicas. They have a Glock 19X (brown glock that Hickok 45 said was submitted for military trials) and they also have the Beretta 92FS.

 

They both feel very comfortable however I have some concerns. After shooting the M&P Shield (9mm tiny handgun) & it has absurdly high recoil. I hate that gun & think it's trash because you can't control it.

I also shot a 22 that was quite short in the slide & it was also quite bad imo.

 

Some pistols I shot that I like are the .22 mark 2 target pistol-very heavy.
A Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum revolver (My favourite)

and a Ruger 9mm SR of some kind.

 

How's the recoil on the Glock 19X & the Beretta 92fs? I like a nice heavy kind of gun because I want to hit what I'm shooting at.

I know the Glock is very reliable & has been adopted by probably every single police force in the entirety of the USA at one point or another. The beretta was adopted by the US Army so both have strong reputations.

 

I'm hoping for your thoughts on the 2. Have you shot both? I'd love to hear your comparisons. Have you only shot 1? What were your thoughts? Compare it to other guns you've shot.

 

For those about to bash airsoft, please don't. I like playing airsoft & why not play airsoft to practice the use of what I have in real steel? It's not really viable for me to conceal carry an MP7 or M4 or AK & those are the only other airsoft guns I have. I want to get the real one & the airsoft one of what I'm gunna use.

[Aimi]

4 minutes ago, fpo said:

I like playing airsoft & why not play airsoft to practice the use of what I have in real steel?

Because airsoft and real guns don't really behave the same

 

Anyway, why the 19X specifically? There's plenty of other Glocks you could choose from.

[atxcyclist]

Anyone partaking in a hunting season currently? It's going on in Texas right now, already have a whitetail in the freezer.

[knightslugger]

I think it's important to remember that just because a gun kicks like a mule doesn't mean it's trash. Every micro i've ever fired kicks like a mule. That's the result of physics. Keep in mind, micros are not supposed to be range or target pistols. If that's what you're looking for, i would HIGHLY advise you to stay FAAAR away from anything micro or on the micro end of sub-compact.

 

Every full-framed glock I've shot feels the same regardless of the caliber. They are a 100% duty gun through and through. not a target, not a pocket conceal gun. They fit in that use case of "I use this gun for things i do every day". Great for home defense. but so are MANY OTHER full frame firearms. some better than others. what it boils down to is your personal preferences and use case.

 

Case and point: I bought a Springfield Hellcat over a Sig P365 for two reasons: #1 i PREFERRED the Hellcat's sight picture, and #2, i PREFERRED the hellcat's trigger as i have owned and used other springfield XD triggers over the years and feel very comfortable with it's break and reset, so it's second nature to me. Otherwise the Sig is a great little firearm for concealed carry. But that's me, and there are plenty of people who carry full size handguns all day just fine. I cannot. I needed a micro knowing full well that recoil is remarkable, but it's because of all that personal need that i learned to shoot the micro with high competency. What I can't shoot are revolvers or anything double action. I don't know why, but it's not something i use a lot, so... there's that.

 

Everyone has a different need to fill with a firearm they purchase. I wouldn't expect the trigger of an airsoft 92 to be at all like a M9, or a glock replica airsoft trigger to act, feel, and reset like a G19. I ain't hatin' on airsoft, i think it's got a place and purpose, but if facsimile realism is what you're after, i'm afraid airsoft might not be it. You're using air and BB's at engagement distances that might as well be point blank in the real world. you know it wont kill if handled inappropriately. the total system weight is all wrong (how many rounds do you carry into a airsoft match?). The mentality is all wrong. I'm a big believer in "Train the way you fight" and that means using the tools... the REAL ACTUAL TOOLS you plan to fight with. 3-gun ranges and competitions are a GODSEND for such things, and has made me a better shooter through practice, patience, and perseverance.

 

What you need to do is find a mentor and a place to learn what you find feels right to you. after that, you can start figuring out what you want the gun for, and then start shopping.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Aimi said:

Because airsoft and real guns don't really behave the same

The trigger shoots & the magazine loads the projectiles.

8 minutes ago, Aimi said:

Anyway, why the 19X specifically? There's plenty of other Glocks you could choose from.

I held the 19 or the 17 gen 3 I think & I didn't like the finger slots.
The Glock 19X is nice & big that fits in my hand nicely. The glocks vary in many different sizes.

[knightslugger]

1 minute ago, fpo said:

The trigger shoots & the magazine loads the projectiles.

totally missed the point of his reply.

[Aimi]

1 minute ago, fpo said:

The trigger shoots & the magazine loads the projectiles

 

Yeah and you can say the same shit about Nerf guns. Doesn't make them close to real firearms.

[Drak3]

25 minutes ago, fpo said:

How's the recoil on the Glock 19X & the Beretta 92fs? I like a nice heavy kind of gun because I want to hit what I'm shooting at.

If you want a heavyish semi auto, look at a 1911. The steel frame will have more heft than the polymer frame Glock or aluminum frame Beretta.

 

But muzzle flip and keeping the sights aligned is pretty easy with my G19.

[Aimi]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

If you want a heavyish semi auto, look at a 1911.

I'm not sure how well he'd handle a .45, he was just calling the M&P Shield (9mm) trash with its recoil

[Drak3]

Just now, Aimi said:

I'm not sure how well he'd handle a .45, he was just calling the M&P Shield (9mm) trash with its recoil

1911s also come in 9mm Luger and 9mm Kurz.

My first 1911 was a 9mm Luger.

[Aimi]

Just now, Drak3 said:

1911s also come in 9mm Luger and 9mm Kurz.

My first 1911 was a 9mm Luger.

I guess, but a 1911 in anything but .45 ACP just feels wrong.

[atxcyclist]

I've always thought the CZ-75 and clones mitigated recoil well. Not everyone likes the double/single trigger setup on them, but they can be worked a little.

[Drak3]

Just now, Aimi said:

I guess, but a 1911 in anything but .45 ACP just feels wrong.

The only thing that feels wrong about my 9mm 1911 is that rounds nose dive if I have more than 8 rounds in the mag, defeating the main purpose of a 9mm 1911.

[atxcyclist]

3 minutes ago, Aimi said:

I guess, but a 1911 in anything but .45 ACP just feels wrong.

.38 Super is pretty good, very flat trajectory and one of the cartridges the 1911 was originally designed for, but it's very expensive to practice with unless you reload. 10mm is also a great cartridge, but it is quite a bit snappier than most people like, even in a metal frame.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

I think it's important to remember that just because a gun kicks like a mule doesn't mean it's trash. Every micro i've ever fired kicks like a mule. That's the result of physics. Keep in mind, micros are not supposed to be range or target pistols. If that's what you're looking for, i would HIGHLY advise you to stay FAAAR away from anything micro or on the micro end of sub-compact.

I'm looking to carry this. It would be required to be concealed carry however the law is written that "as long as your clothes hide it, it's concealed." So if I wear a sweatshirt or something that's a little longer, it would be considered concealed. I'm also okay with the under the armpit holsters. Additionally, I'm 6 feet tall so my body can deal with a slightly larger tool & my job isn't super active.

2 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

Every full-framed glock I've shot feels the same regardless of the caliber. They are a 100% duty gun through and through. not a target, not a pocket conceal gun. They fit in that use case of "I use this gun for things i do every day". Great for home defense. but so are MANY OTHER full frame firearms. some better than others. what it boils down to is your personal preferences and use case.

I like a lot of pistols. Most of my experience with different models comes from airsoft. The shape of the 1911 & P226 are very nice but the 1911 has a very limited capacity, is expensive to shoot & the P226 is definitely out of my price range starting about $1000 USD.

2 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

Case and point: I bought a Springfield Hellcat over a Sig P365 for two reasons: #1 i PREFERRED the Hellcat's sight picture, and #2, i PREFERRED the hellcat's trigger as i have owned and used other springfield XD triggers over the years and feel very comfortable with it's break and reset, so it's second nature to me. Otherwise the Sig is a great little firearm for concealed carry. But that's me, and there are plenty of people who carry full size handguns all day just fine. I cannot. I needed a micro knowing full well that recoil is remarkable, but it's because of all that personal need that i learned to shoot the micro with high competency. What I can't shoot are revolvers or anything double action. I don't know why, but it's not something i use a lot, so... there's that.

I can see what you're getting at. Personal preference & requirements for training.

2 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

Everyone has a different need to fill with a firearm they purchase. I wouldn't expect the trigger of an airsoft 92 to be at all like a M9, or a glock replica airsoft trigger to act, feel, and reset like a G19.

Of course not.

2 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

I ain't hatin' on airsoft, i think it's got a place and purpose, but if facsimile realism is what you're after, i'm afraid airsoft might not be it. You're using air and BB's at engagement distances that might as well be point blank in the real world.

Not what I'm using airsoft for but I think you see that already. It's mostly getting to terms with the motions. IE "The gun is shaped like this. The magazine release is here. The sights are here." Going through the motions with the stress of other people having guns. Not me & a bunch of paper drawings. Airsoft isn't really isn't the focus of my post & it seems like you kinda figured that it's a supplement.

2 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

What you need to do is find a mentor and a place to learn what you find feels right to you. after that, you can start figuring out what you want the gun for, and then start shopping.

I'm looking at having my first gun be for self defense. My house already has a shotgun we use for clay pigeon shooting. I'm not particularly worried about anything happening but I might as well start practicing so if I become worried, I won't be in a panicked frenzy. Everyone starts somewhere.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

If you want a heavyish semi auto, look at a 1911. The steel frame will have more heft than the polymer frame Glock or aluminum frame Beretta.

I thought the frame & top of the gun would handle most of the recoil, not the bottom frame.

Do you recommend any specific makers of the 1911? I heard a lot of bad things about modern 1911s because of their shoddy quality.

11 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

But muzzle flip and keeping the sights aligned is pretty easy with my G19.

Resetting was quite difficult on the M&P shield. I love the 357 revolver because I can hit the target every time & it's very easy to reset.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, fpo said:

thought the frame & top of the gun would handle most of the recoil, not the bottom frame.

Grip angle and bore axis affect recoil heavily.

2 minutes ago, fpo said:

Do you recommend any specific makers of the 1911?

Springfield and Rock Island have both served me great, when chambered for 45ACP.

[atxcyclist]

1 minute ago, fpo said:

I thought the frame & top of the gun would handle most of the recoil, not the bottom frame.

Do you recommend any specific makers of the 1911? I heard a lot of bad things about modern 1911s because of their shoddy quality.

Resetting was quite difficult on the M&P shield. I love the 357 revolver because I can hit the target every time & it's very easy to reset.

The weight of the frame does help, muzzle flip and recoil are reduced when there's more mass to move around.

 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Springfield and Rock Island have both served me great, when chambered for 45ACP.

What about other calibres? Or should I not buy firearms made in calibres they weren't originally designed for?

[Drak3]

Just now, fpo said:

What about other calibres? Or should I not buy firearms made in calibres they weren't originally designed for?

10mm 1911s sometimes have issues cracking frames (watch Forgotten Weapon’s videos on 10mm 1911’s), and 9mm can have feed issues (because the frame and magwell are made for the longer .45ACP cartridge).

But 9mm Kurz 1911s are made specifically for 9mm Kurz.

 

Most handguns not initially chambered for 10mm have issues with that caliber, actually. I think Glock fixed that with the gen 5 handguns.

[kaiju_wars]

2 hours ago, fpo said:

 

They both feel very comfortable however I have some concerns. After shooting the M&P Shield (9mm tiny handgun) & it has absurdly high recoil. I hate that gun & think it's trash because you can't control it.

I'm hoping for your thoughts on the 2. Have you shot both? I'd love to hear your comparisons. Have you only shot 1? What were your thoughts? Compare it to other guns you've shot.

 

For those about to bash airsoft, please don't. I like playing airsoft & why not play airsoft to practice the use of what I have in real steel? It's not really viable for me to conceal carry an MP7 or M4 or AK & those are the only other airsoft guns I have. I want to get the real one & the airsoft one of what I'm gunna use.

I love sub compact 9mm handguns.  They have snappy recoil.  I own a Shield 2.0 and I daily carry it, it doesn't have absurdly high recoil, in fact, as far as 9mm subcompacts go, it's recoil is fairly tame.  But snappy recoil with a sub compact 9mm is par for the course.  They're easier to carry and conceal though. 

In fact it's not a trash gun, it's one of the best handguns on the market in terms of reliability, which is the most important thing with any handgun. 

As for other guns to compare it to, I've shot fullsized, compact, sub compact handguns.  The Shield is better than any sub compact I've had experience with.  It obviously doesn't match a Glock 19 or 1911 in terms of felt recoil, because those are bigger handguns, they can absorb felt recoil better.  

As for airsoft for training, it's best for learning how to handle a firearm at best.  They aren't as accurate as real guns, they don't have the recoil as real guns, and BBs are less consistent than real bullets.  If you want something for training with, a 10/22 would be perfect, tbh.

[Radium_Angel]

My CCW is a 9x18mm Makarov.

I figure if it's good enough for the Soviet Politburo, it's good enough for me.

And yes, I've had to draw it in self defense once, that was.....not fun.

 

On a brighter note, hoping to pick up a 6.5 Carcano Calvary soon (price is certainly right)

[Jito463]

10 hours ago, fpo said:

I like a nice heavy kind of gun because I want to hit what I'm shooting at.

I'm partial to my H&K P2000 (similar to the USP Compact, even uses the same mags).

 

That reminds me, I need to practice some more with my Ruger SR9......

[Real_PhillBert]

10 hours ago, fpo said:

I'm looking at getting my first pistol/handgun soon.

 

How's the recoil on the Glock 19X & the Beretta 92fs? I like a nice heavy kind of gun because I want to hit what I'm shooting at.

I know the Glock is very reliable & has been adopted by probably every single police force in the entirety of the USA at one point or another. The beretta was adopted by the US Army so both have strong reputations.

 

I'm hoping for your thoughts on the 2. Have you shot both? I'd love to hear your comparisons. Have you only shot 1? What were your thoughts? Compare it to other guns you've shot.

I own a Beretta 92FS and a G19 (non-X) although my G19 is fairly extensively modified at this point. The biggest difference between the 19 and the 19X is grip length, they both share the same barrel length, but the 19X uses the grip length of the 17.

 

 

Both are excellent guns in their own right and to be honest, you wouldn't be wrong to get either one. Both are going to be more than accurate enough, and more than reliable enough for whatever you need, so I'll call those a wash between the two.

 

Glock 19: There are a lot of Glock haters out there but the fact is, they are actually pretty good learner guns because of their simplicity. I carry my Glock 19 concealed every day, and compete in USPSA (B class shooter) carry optics division once or twice a month, and shoot about 5k rounds a year through this particular Glock 19.

 

Pros: Very simple, there are no frills with a Glock, which is nice for new shooters as there is simply less to keep in your mind. The aftermarket for Glocks (see above) is second to none, anything holster, mag carrier, sights, barrels, mag releases, mag wells, triggers, anything you want to change, you'll find a dozen groups making products for it. I'll even contest that the striker fired single action only trigger is better for a new shooter who is going to carry the gun. IMHO the perfect size gun for someone who is going to own only one handgun, on the large size for CCW but still doable, perfectly at home on a competition range, and fits the home defense roll just fine. 

 

Cons: It's not sexy, at all. Not as smooth as a Beretta 92. Maybe a little more snappy than a 92.

 

Beretta 92fs: I love my 92fs, I'll never sell it. It's a much different experience than the G19, It's the only gun I own where I can feel the slide reciprocate when fired, I'm very aware of all the mechanics of the firearm as it goes off. It's kind of hard to describe. I searched all over for a 92 Inox "Ghost" (stainless trigger and safety as opposed to plastic) and am very happy that I found one. Mine is a range toy, and occasionally gets brought out for a USPSA Production run. I shoot about 500-1000 rounds a year through it. 

 

Pros: Very very smooth shooter, after a couple thousand rounds, you'd swear the slide is on bearings. It's an inherently sexy gun, I know that's just an opinion but I'm putting it in the "Pros" column anyway. I do prefer the alloy frame and steel mags of the 92 to the polymer frame and polymer mags of the Glocks. 

 

Cons: I'm just not a huge fan of double/single guns, especially for a new shooter; they're just a bit more complex to learn. For what it is, it's huge; I know the pic makes them look similarly sized, but trust me, they are not. For a gun in which you wish to carry concealed, this would be much more difficult with a 92 than a G19. I dont know if you care or not, but the 92fs' do not have a rail, so no weapon light which I consider to be an absolute must on any defensive firearm; but the M9A1s do have a rail, so that might be kind of a moot point anyway. 

 

Conclusion: Tough call. If you're only going to buy one handgun, I have to recommend the Glock over the 92fs; but if you plan on buying more as time goes on, buy the Glock, then a 92fs. I love my 92, I really do, but I do find myself shooting it and enjoying myself, then going right back to shooting the G19. I shoot almost an order of magnitude more ammo through the G19 than the 92fs, it's not that the 92 is a bad gun, it's certainly not, but the 19 just strikes a balance that it does everything pretty well.