Do you need to be good at Maths to be a great coder?

[Nuluvius]

Most of the replies in this thread are wrong. Programming is too broad a subject to make such a statement. Some types of programming require insane amounts of rigorous math, others require little to none. What kind of coding are you interested in?

 

What you are forgetting is that people have to code those database frameworks. the question was do you have to know math to code. So it depends on what part of the coding foodchain you work on.

 

Not at all, the question is, as you put it yourself, far too broad to answer without a lot more information. Lets try and break it down real simple then for people such as yourself:

 

It will first depend upon the domain; the industry or the problems that are being routinely addressed. For example, are we dealing with aerospace & defence, medical, image processing and 'through the lens work' or are we dealing with consumer data provision, presentation and processing. The former is likely to have a disposition to requiring more mathematically demanding work while the latter may emphasize more on architectural and design abilities. Again it needs to be stressed that these are very broad and quite vague examples and of course there will be crossover.

 

Then I would say the next biggest deciding factor is what role you'd imagine yourself enjoying the most (and it has to be just that subjective as well because life is far too short to spend it doing something you are 'ok' with or worse yet, unhappy with).

 

Terms such as 'coder' and 'programmer' are in my opinion bad. They are routinely used by outsiders and veterans alike to refer to some vastly different aspects of the field... in short they are ambiguous and ugly and should disappear.

 

Here's my take on roles in the Software industry starting at the lowest end of the spectrum or 'food chain' as you put it and working upwards:

 

Programmer

A grunt who follows orders to the letter. Think of this person as a mechanical component on a factory line. He/she takes in raw material in the form of instructions and outputs assembled components at the other end... They don't get paid for, much less posses the capacity for thought of design or consideration towards the bigger picture of the software development process. They (should) know how to write well structured, clean and efficient code but that is as far as it goes.

 

Software Developer

Same as the Programmer but they get involved in the planning, design and architectural decision making process. Often involved in discussions with product/project management and usually is a pivotal team member who will often coordinate and/or mentor less experienced developers. This person also usually has one or two areas of very specialist domain knowledge.

 

Computer Scientist

R&D guys; they get to play with all of the very cool toys and gadgets. They usually have very specialist and deep domain knowledge often including advanced mathematics/physics. They tend not to get involved in production work as they are usually kept focused with the most bleeding edge research; the products of which are then sent to the developers/engineers for production integration. Job security can be a little worrisome as work often comes about in bursts/spikes (the bigger the company, the better this is though).

 

Software Engineer

Includes all of the Software Developer's responsibilities and is often also responsible for being heavily involved in the bigger picture or wider scope of the software development process; the whole wider orchestration of the design and project. Often they are more involved in wider reaching and more pivotal decisions. These individuals usually have a wider array of skills and domain knowledge - multidisciplinary/generalists are good descriptions. It's a title that can be also be applied to developers who work closely with mechanical/robotic devices/equipment as this also requires a greater depth or breadth of field and understanding.

 

On Software Engineer vs Software Developer Titles

Something that I've experienced a lot over the years from place to place is the age old title dispute of Software Engineer vs Software Developer. This is irritating (to me) because at times one can be seen to be transitory between them. On the whole there's a great deal of debate saying that it doesn't really matter. I've even worked in places where it's seen as completely irrelevant. These places were however predominately desktop development based or higher level software focused. In stark contrast to where I work for the time being, who argue that there is a distinct difference. They see a Software Developer as a developer who predominantly writes software for the higher levels. While the Software Engineer, they say, focuses on the lower levels/back-end. Indeed over the years my job title has changed quite a number of times between the two!

 

Junior, Mid, Senior and Principal titles

In that exact order. We start our careers usually as one of the main four roles that I have listed and will maintain one of these prefixes as we progress though career life (mid is (usually) inferred if no prefix is given with a role). They are quite self explanatory and should serve as a good indication of the pay grade modifier for that role.

 

In closing then I'm really trying to say to you that maybe you should have a think about/do some research as to where exactly it is that you want/see yourself ending up in the Software industry and what kind of things interest you the most.

[SpaceNugget]

Here's my take

 

Thats the only important part of your answer, the truth is that a coder is someone who writes code. instead of being condescending, try admitting that you are wrong. If you are writing laplace transformations doing dsp or doing complex analytical work on massive data sets or statistics in R or octave, then yes you need math and yes you are programming. That was the question. I know admitting that you are wrong is hard for "people such as yourself" but all you are doing is making yourself look bad.

 

My dad always said, "sometimes its better to be silent and be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and confirm that you are an idiot"

 

As I said, some areas of programming need math others don't. Simple as that.

[deviant88]

people he said game prog now here i would ask are you 'afraid' of challenge and math ? will you use existing engine or try to make your own prototype? if you will use something like unity or UE4 then you will be fine, but coding your own engine graphics? prepare to get rekt both by math and prog language

[CatLovingCoder]

I want to get into coding/game design but I'm worried I might struggle a bit.

My maths isn't too bad, but sometimes it takes a while for me to grasp new concepts and mathematical things don't generally come naturally to me.

How dependant is coding on Mathematics?

Yes, you do need to be good at math to be a great coder. However, you do not need to be good at math to be a employed coder, or even above average (the bar is not high). However, you will never be a great coder if you are not good at math because you will not understand the underlying fundamentals of computing.

Also, forget about programming games if you are not good at math.

[Nuluvius]

...instead of being condescending, try admitting that you are wrong. 

 

Really?

 

Most of the replies in this thread are wrong. 

 

I know admitting that you are wrong is hard for "people such as yourself" but all you are doing is making yourself look bad.

 

My dad always said, "sometimes its better to be silent and be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and confirm that you are an idiot"

 

You chose to come here and inflict yourself on everyone with remarks such as these. I wonder if your dad ever told you about people who live in glass houses... In any event, life is too short so please highlight where and how you think that I have been wrong and I shall attempt to further clarify for you.

 

I digress, back to the actual point.

 

If you are writing laplace transformations doing dsp or doing complex analytical work on massive data sets or statistics in R or octave, then yes you need math and yes you are programming.

 

And sadly, you still seem to be missing the it. What you are eluding to is more along the Computer Science route, it's quite a specialized area. Moreover it's just one facet of the industry as a whole and further modified by the domain of interest. In other words then we could say that: 'in some areas one will need strong maths to be considered a great developer' or 'in some areas one will need strong architectural abilities to be considered a great developer'. It all depends on where and what type of role in the industry the initial interest lies with.

 

As I said, some areas of programming need math others don't. Simple as that.

 

This was never disputed, in fact if you had really read my previous post then you would have seen that I was actually affirming and expanding it. Unfortunately however you seem to have lost yourself along the way in your own self conceitedness.

[SpaceNugget]

1. Really?

 

2. You chose to come here and inflict yourself on everyone with remarks such as these. I wonder if your dad ever told you about people who live in glass houses... In any event, life is too short so please highlight where and how you think that I have been wrong and I shall attempt to further clarify for you.

 

3. I digress, back to the actual point.

 

4. And sadly, you still seem to be missing the it. What you are eluding to is more along the Computer Science route, it's quite a specialized area. Moreover it's just one facet of the industry as a whole and further modified by the domain of interest. In other words then we could say that: 'in some areas one will need strong maths to be considered a great developer' or 'in some areas one will need strong architectural abilities to be considered a great developer'. It all depends on where and what type of role in the industry the initial interest lies with.

 

5. This was never disputed, in fact if you had really read my previous post then you would have seen that I was actually affirming and expanding it. Unfortunately however you seem to have lost yourself along the way in your own self conceitedness.

 

1. yes

2. No, I am inflicting you with these remarks. Because, frankly, you are an idiot. You were wrong in calling me wrong, and then trying to steal credit for the jist of my post.

3. You don't have a point

4. I'm not missing anything, That different areas require different understandings of math was MY POINT. You are the one who said that you don't need math and I corrected you.You are the one who missed things. You seem to be as bad at reading as you are at math.

5. Actually it was. your post was about how you think labels should be applied. I don't give a shit.

 

some areas of coding require intense math than others. that is my point, anything else you drag into this is just you trying to strawman. Bow out.

[Sauron]

Not too much, but it helps. In general all the maths you'll need will be available on the internet, but the mindset is essential.

[Nuluvius]

Alas now we are offered a glimpse into your real level of maturity (or lack thereof) as you begin to debase yourself by resorting to base insults, swearing and false accusations in a vain attempt to hammer across your vague and uninformed point of view:

 

frankly, you are an idiot. 

 

trying to steal credit for the jist of my post.

 

3. You don't have a point

 

You seem to be as bad at reading as you are at math.

 

I don't give a shit.

 

...anything else you drag into this is just you trying to strawman. Bow out.

 

I have to say that your obnoxious noises are akin to a small dog yapping out across the vastness of a chasm  :lol:

 

2. No, I am inflicting you with these remarks.

 

I fail to see how when the very first statement you opened with once you arrived here was:

 

Most of the replies in this thread are wrong.

 

One might be inclined to interpret that as being rather a conceited thing to say especially when there was little to nothing objective offered up as evidence. Then from the very point when someone actually disagreed with what you had said onwards you have made the choice to initiate hostile overtures.

 

5. Actually it was. your post was about how you think labels should be applied. I don't give a shit.

 

What you are referring to as 'labels' are real job titles in the Software Industry, something that you would clearly know had you ever actually worked in it... The opinions that I offered about them were based on my own personal experience in the industry out in the 'real world' over a span of many years. You may feel free to take them as such; subjective and open to discussion.

 

You were wrong in calling me wrong, and then trying to steal credit for the jist of my post.

 

Please point out exactly where it was that I called you wrong or attempted to 'steal credit for the jist of your post/s'. You made vague points eluding to the existence of differences in the general term of 'coding' and I offered expansion and clarification upon them.

 

3. You don't have a point

4. I'm not missing anything, That different areas require different understandings of math was MY POINT. You are the one who said that you don't need math and I corrected you.You are the one who missed things. You seem to be as bad at reading as you are at math.

 

I stand by the statement with the simple fact that with both dyscalculia and dyslexia I am currently enjoying a great abundance of work across a very broad range of the industry, both freelance and permanent. One doesn't require maths at all to be extremely successful or considered highly of. One of the points that I was trying to make was not to let the thoughts of mathematics limit you. Another was to try to understand where exactly in the industry the interest lies - in order to offer better informed advice as to whether or not maths will be a factor.

 

You seem to be as bad at reading as you are at math.

 

You are quite correct, since I also have dyslexia I do in fact have great difficulty reading and writing. Does going after perceived weakness and disability in your opponent make you feel good about yourself? (don't worry it's rhetorical)

 

The general ethos that mathematics is a requirement and a deciding or limiting factor in the Software Industry is fed by a truly archaic school of thought indeed. Those that seek to perpetuate it are likely just parroting noises that they simply think sound correct.

 

I make no attempt to state that mathematics is not necessary, for certain areas and tasks it is essential and it does help to have an understanding and an appreciation of it. But at the end of the day, it's not going to stop you if you have absolutely no ability in it whatsoever. The industry today and the technologies we work with are just that vast and diverse.

[SpaceNugget]

 

Alas now we are offered a glimpse into your real level of maturity (or lack thereof) as you begin to debase yourself by resorting to base insults, swearing and false accusations in a vain attempt to hammer across your vague and uninformed point of view:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have to say that your obnoxious noises are akin to a small dog yapping out across the vastness of a chasm  :lol:

 

 

 

I fail to see how when the very first statement you opened with once you arrived here was:

 

 

One might be inclined to interpret that as being rather a conceited thing to say especially when there was little to nothing objective offered up as evidence. Then from the very point when someone actually disagreed with what you had said onwards you have made the choice to initiate hostile overtures.

 

 

 

What you are referring to as 'labels' are real job titles in the Software Industry, something that you would clearly know had you ever actually worked in it... The opinions that I offered about them were based on my own personal experience in the industry out in the 'real world' over a span of many years. You may feel free to take them as such; subjective and open to discussion.

 

 

 

Please point out exactly where it was that I called you wrong or attempted to 'steal credit for the jist of your post/s'. You made vague points eluding to the existence of differences in the general term of 'coding' and I offered expansion and clarification upon them.

 

 

I stand by the statement with the simple fact that with both dyscalculia and dyslexia I am currently enjoying a great abundance of work across a very broad range of the industry, both freelance and permanent. One doesn't require maths at all to be extremely successful or considered highly of. One of the points that I was trying to make was not to let the thoughts of mathematics limit you. Another was to try to understand where exactly in the industry the interest lies - in order to offer better informed advice as to whether or not maths will be a factor.

 

 

 

You are quite correct, since I also have dyslexia I do in fact have great difficulty reading and writing. Does going after perceived weakness and disability in your opponent make you feel good about yourself? (don't worry it's rhetorical)

 

The general ethos that mathematics is a requirement and a deciding or limiting factor in the Software Industry is fed by a truly archaic school of thought indeed. Those that seek to perpetuate it are likely just parroting noises that they simply think sound correct.

 

I make no attempt to state that mathematics is not necessary, for certain areas and tasks it is essential and it does help to have an understanding and an appreciation of it. But at the end of the day, it's not going to stop you if you have absolutely no ability in it whatsoever. The industry today and the technologies we work with are just that vast and diverse.

 

I am not beethoven, I do nothing in overtures. I am calling out stupid and dickish where I see stupid and dickish. (you)

I don't care about what you think of my maturity, you write posts like a grade A Trilby tipping neck-beard.

 

Yes I feel good about being right (who doesn't?), and also about being smarter than you. Have a problem with that?

 

lets get you on my page so you can figure out whats really rustling jimmies in here.

 

me -> my post

you -> 'not at all'

you -> expanding my points and saying -> "Lets try and break it down real simple then for people such as yourself:" <--- Object of my anger.

 

You are trying to explain MY fucking points to ME.

 

if thats not you trying to take credit for my contribution to this thread I have no idea what the fuck would be. Also its condescending as hell for someone being corrected to say that to the person who is correcting them.

[burnttoastnice]

...

your post was about how you think labels should be applied. I don't give a shit.

...

At my college, Computer Science, Software Engineering and Computing are all separate courses. I don't see where you got the idea that they are opinion based labels

-------------------------------------

Anyway in response to OP: It doesn't matter imo. I'm personally doing maths because I'm not strong in that subject area and have been finding certain parts of projects involving number crunching rather challenging as a result. If you're getting into web development, you shouldn't really need maths. If you're getting into software development, you may find it helpful.

[SpaceNugget]

At my college, Computer Science, Software Engineering and Computing are all separate courses. I don't see where you got the idea that they are opinion based labels

-------------------------------------

Anyway in response to OP: It doesn't matter imo. I'm personally doing maths because I'm not strong in that subject area and have been finding certain parts of projects involving number crunching rather challenging as a result. If you're getting into web development, you shouldn't really need maths. If you're getting into software development, you may find it helpful.

They are at my University as well, but thats not what the op asked.

[Nuluvius]

You're really not helping yourself much.

 

I am not beethoven, I do nothing in overtures. I am calling out stupid and dickish where I see stupid and dickish. (you)

I don't care about what you think of my maturity, you write posts like a grade A Trilby tipping neck-beard.

 

Yes I feel good about being right (who doesn't?), and also about being smarter than you. Have a problem with that?

 

lets get you on my page so you can figure out whats really rustling jimmies in here.

 

me -> my post

you -> 'not at all'

you -> expanding my points and saying -> "Lets try and break it down real simple then for people such as yourself:" <--- Object of my anger.

 

You are trying to explain MY fucking points to ME.

 

if thats not you trying to take credit for my contribution to this thread I have no idea what the fuck would be. Also its condescending as hell for someone being corrected to say that to the person who is correcting them.

 

Incidentally:

 

Not at all...

 

Was in response to:

 

What you are forgetting is that people have to code those database frameworks....

 

And not a disagreement to the general point that you had made in any form but me stating that I had not forgotten that particular detail.

 

They are at my University as well, but thats not what the op asked.

 

This is the most important thing to remember. You haven't even seen a fraction of what the industry (that you are attempting to argue about) is like out in the real world yet. Moreover you clearly lack life experience in general...

 

Responding to an intellectual debate in such an immature and hostile fashion ultimately only serves to undermine your own side of the argument, while at the same time loosing you any support that you may have gained. It is distasteful and rude and if you take that attitude of yours into the professional world you will have a very short lived career indeed.

[sparkle128]

You need to be more a logic person than a math person (almost directly correlated of course), but all great math people are very good coders IMHO. Without it you could go in circles pi times. But its also an art. So some artist people may figure out the math part and come up with some very elegant solutions than a math person might model for longer before getting anything out.

[DXMember]

[Paralectic]

You need a bit of math knowledge, alot of discipline and patience.

[You_are_a_cunt]

You can sort of get by with basic math, but being good at math doesn't mean you'd be a good coder.

 

Coding is pretty dependent on math, since programs are basically number crunchers.

[SpaceNugget]

You're really not helping yourself much.

 

 

Incidentally:

 

 

 

Was in response to:

 

 

And not a disagreement to the general point that you had made in any form but me stating that I had not forgotten that particular detail.

 

 

This is the most important thing to remember. You haven't even seen a fraction of what the industry (that you are attempting to argue about) is like out in the real world yet. Moreover you clearly lack life experience in general...

 

Responding to an intellectual debate in such an immature and hostile fashion ultimately only serves to undermine your own side of the argument, while at the same time loosing you any support that you may have gained. It is distasteful and rude and if you take that attitude of yours into the professional world you will have a very short lived career indeed.

Intellectual debate -> you are not an intellectual and you are still dodged the important point of my post. you tried to explain my point to me.

 

You havent seen a fraction of the industry either, its too large for any one person to be an expert across. get this over with and admit you were wrong in your first post in saying you dont need math to be a coder.

[Nuluvius]

Intellectual debate -> you are not an intellectual and you are still dodged the important point of my post. you tried to explain my point to me.

 

You havent seen a fraction of the industry either, its too large for any one person to be an expert across. get this over with and admit you were wrong in your first post in saying you dont need math to be a coder.

 

Obnoxious/childish noises aside and in the most concise and simple way that I can think of putting it for you then: you don't require mathematics to be a 'coder'.

[Nineshadow]

You need to be good at maths to find some great and efficient algorithms.

[joshmcd]

it really depends

[juretrn]

You need to be good at maths to find some great and efficient algorithms.

Yes and no;

mostly, those already exist, however, if you don't understand what they do and how they do it, you might as well not use them. 

 

One can probably get by without knowing too much math, as long as you understand the basic principles of binary operations. I would consider that the minimum of mathematical knowledge.

[EpicAdom]

An understanding of computational logic is much more important than mathematics. If you know algebra then you should be fine.

[Notgower]

In my opinion, you have Google for what you don't know and you will learn along the way. I wouldn't recommend you let this be a factor that prevents you from learning how to program.

 

An understanding of computational logic is much more important than mathematics. If you know algebra then you should be fine.

 

Agreed that logic is MUCH more important than the actual mathematics aspect.

[SpaceNugget]

Obnoxious/childish noises aside and in the most concise and simple way that I can think of putting it for you then: you don't require mathematics to be a 'coder'.

Thank you for being concise and honest.

[MrStraightface]

If you can do this by hand and not rip your eyes out you'll be fine:

 

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